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8:01 PM
@Hybridwebdev All jQuery is bad jQuery
 
@BenFortune javascript purist eh?
 
jQuery.noConflict() remove those bad vibes
 
@BenFortune pardon me if i like being able to do something in 2 lines instead of 10 :)
 
like what?
 
whats up with the $this = this;
also you should check out the lines of code in JQ
because it's a shitload more than 10
 
8:02 PM
uncompressed, it's like 9000
 
9002 to do what you could do in 10
 
not in the mood for yet another JS vs jquery discussion
 
In Haskell it would be about 6
 
 if($(this).hasClass(dyna_show_class)) {

            $(this).removeClass('hide');
that could be done with classList
same amt of lines
 
8:04 PM
counting all the lines of jQuery is a bad argument. I use moment.js even though it adds many lines to my final product.
 
$(this).val() can be this.value
Among plenty of other things
 
@Luggage yea, but moment (today) still adds shit. jQuery is just abstracting code that is as easy to produce with modern JS
 
jquery is a huge addon yes....but it means being able to write codebases much smaller than one would using pure JS
 
@Hybridwebdev not really.
use modern js and a compiler
 
dyna_show_class = $(this).val().toLowerCase().split(' ').join('_');
 
8:05 PM
ew jquery
 
^ implicit global?
 
ok challenge of the day
 
I just mean the 3 vs 10 argument is more useful that 3 vs 9000. There are plenty of reason not to us jQuery.
 
make pastebin.com/GSmtii9v in less code using only JS
 
parent_group = $(this).data('dyna-select');
here as well...
 
8:05 PM
if you have the choice of just using modern js + a compiler like babel vs jQuery I see the benefit
 
i refuse to use jquery. especially now that there is things like typescript
 
typescript has very little to do with what jquery supposedly offers
 
typescript and jQuery are not in competition..
 
Then that makes you ignorant of when/where jQuery has it's justifiable usages.
 
With so many good reasons to skip jQuery, stop using the bad reasons, people. :)
 
8:06 PM
I refuse to use jQuery because I moved back to MI and can buy Faygo again.
@Luggage list some then
list some of the good reasons
 
hmm, vue.js got more stars than react in 2016
 
3 mins ago, by Ben Fortune
$(this).val() can be this.value
^ That's a good one
 
Quicker too
 
@Hybridwebdev you should add var to those 2 things I called out
 
jQuery being redundant is the main reason. Not that it's 9000 lines or "typescript" :)
 
8:08 PM
@Luggage If you're supporting all modern browsers, plenty of reasons. However, trying to reinvent the wheel for IE 9- is just not worth it when you can use jQuery to get the same clean feel of modern JS.
 
I agree.
 
@Loktar why
 
@Hybridwebdev that entire script can probably be replaced 1:1 without jQuery (LoC count) but the linkage to the elements will need some augmentation
otherwise, yea, it is completely possible with modern js / dom
jQuery is a free polyfill
 
i know jquery and typescript are not in competition but why would i write jquery when i can write typescript
 
and a standard tool for DOM interaction if you need that
 
8:09 PM
Why would you write typescript
 
there are alternatives (compiled code like from babel) and they often are going to be just as good or better
 
id rather use a framework like angular2/typescript
 
i'd rather write javascript
 
I'd rather be sailing.
@Hybridwebdev what browsers do you support, btw?
 
@Luggage depends on project really...but i consider ie10 pretty much the lowest now
 
8:12 PM
I see. Then mostly you are good with straight DOM.
 
@Luggage currently my side project is I'm building a visual composer and i'm going for any modern html5 browser supportwise....i dont think that's undereasonable
 
so @Luggage, did you watch that press conference?
 
@Mosho blurry on high DPI
 
@Mosho Everything looks a bit big, dunno if it's just me
 
(still want opinions, deleted for reasons)
 
8:14 PM
@Hybridwebdev write pure js and compile with babel for features you need
 
:35220975 Unless that's for a touch screen or a projector, everything is huge
 
then you'll only have the polyfills for the features ie10 doesn't support
 
@Luggage Probably because it's a screenshot
 
@Luggage well, it's an image
 
@rlemon already got about 80% of the core written in Jquery :P
 
8:14 PM
@tereško about 1/3 of it.. then had to work. also read about who those people were. IT gives me some doubt, but some of those people do work for RT..
 
user2620028
yeah everything is big, but it looks good
 
but looking big is a good point
I thought the colors were a bit too colorful
 
@Luggage then look at it as "opposition research"
 
Untested but it's probably not far off
 
user2620028
8:15 PM
ehh its better than having no color and being boring as shit
 
boring isn't bad
 
user2620028
as long as you don't overdo the colors to the point of affecting usability
 
this isn't for hipsters
 
gotta go.
 
user2620028
then grey, nothing but grey
 
8:16 PM
but, white and black are both colors
 
The Current Weight bars don't look proportional
 
@BenFortune impressive....however now objectively compare the 2 scripts and tell me which one is easier to read semantically
 
@KendallFrey proportional to what?
 
each other/their values
11% is more than half as long as 31%
 
yeah, 11 definitely isn't over half of 31
 
8:17 PM
@BenFortune thus one of my biggest anti js arguments
 
My beard senses were tingling.. was there a beard topic going on?
 
but that's not too interesting
 
user2620028
@SterlingArcher i shaved mine this morning if that counts
 
@SterlingArcher lack of beard
on the lemon
 
user2620028
maybe it just scared yours
 
8:18 PM
:(
 
How can you... objectively decide which is easier to read?
 
The only way I'll ever have a beard is if I glue my pubes to my face
 
I can't even bend over that far
 
@KevinB what a dumb question...obviously whichever is easier to take a cursory glance at and actually grasp what's happening
 
but... that's subjective
 
8:19 PM
@KevinB scientific polls
 
@KevinB okay...whichever is faster to understand
 
having to learn a second api that I can translate into DOM is objectively harder to learn.
 
that's subjective too
 
lemon is a native canadian, they don't grow beards
 
how is time subjective? lol
 
8:20 PM
@Hybridwebdev Einsteinian relativity
 
the speed at which you understand the snippet depends on how well you know the language it is written in compared to the other, and how familiar you are with the structure being used.
 
a function that takes 2 minutes to figure out because of semantics, vs the same function better written
 
you think it is better written
 
yes
better written = easy to understand
 
@rlemon Holy shit the cult is out of control now
 
8:21 PM
fact is to use the tools to their absolute best, you need to understand how jQuery abstracts the DOM. therefore you need to learn both apis
 
what cult
 
so.. it isn't better written, it is an abstraction over an old api which has since gained some sanity
if you prefer the abstraction, cool. but it isn't better in any means
 
@BenFortune thanks for the volume warning
 
sure it is, because it allows you to write better code
 
8:21 PM
how
 
I'm going to keep linking it because it's just absolutely bizarre
 
thats like saying oop is overkill because you can just write the same functions out
 
prove to me it is better code
 
well... no, it just gives you a different way of writing code.
not necessarily better or worse
 
@Hybridwebdev Are you saying it isn't?
 
8:22 PM
What's being argued here?
 
that jquery is better than dom
 
Oh jesus no
 
@KendallFrey absolutely it isnt
 
well, DOM still sucks
 
I'm sorry
 
8:23 PM
document.querySelectorAll is like.. 90% of jquery
 
no it's not
 
it depends on what metric you measure "better" on.
 
The best thing jQuery provides is browser compatibility for those needing to support legacy browsers
 
i could waste time on a stupid argument, or write code....hmmmmmmm, choices choices choices
 
8:23 PM
 
I'm waiting to hear how jQuery is better than (modern) DOM
 
performance-wise... obviously using the methods jquery uses directly will be faster.
 
peace, thanks for the feedback
 
@Hybridwebdev so you're ducking out before trying to defend your position with any actual facts
 
8:25 PM
That's me with politics
 
@rlemon it's a better API for sure
 
jQuery is slower, in modern dev doesn't allow you to 'write less and do more', and the API choices are debatable.
however, if your team uses the abstraction. cool.
I'm not saying don't use it
but it isn't 'better code'
 
the DOM hasn't improved that much
 
and what jQuery API is that superior to DOM?
 
what's improved is oldIE has been depricated
and mostly abandoned
 
8:27 PM
@rlemon styling with JS
for example
not that I would do that
 
huh?
classList is fine
and you can always use template strings with .style
the only thing I can think of is .animate
 
it's still a little better
 
and css covers that.
 
it implements other kinds of selectors
 
not fully.. but jQuery isn't the best animation library out there either
 
8:28 PM
like a parent selector
I'm not pro-jquery
 
parent selector in jQuery ?
 
yeah
 
I thought it was a method
either way. if you just want selectors Sizzle is still a stand alone yea?
 
it's a selector method
we are comparing jquery to the DOM
not suggesting alternatives which surely exist
 
yea we are. and if jQuery is only leading on a single thing (selectors) then those can be patched with Sizzle, granted I'm not convinced that the like 6 selectors they add are going to make that much a difference
 
8:30 PM
i mean, queryselectorall
 
you're still in a JS environment. parentNode exists
 
you can call methods on lists of elements in jq
which is very useful
 
you can make a function that does the same
 
you can do nodeList.forEach now
 
you can make a function that does anything
 
8:31 PM
I've recently fallen for Electron. Being able to use Node in browser scripts is fun.
 
so that isn't as useful
and spread operator also makes that less useful
 
@rlemon not cross browser
 
@KendallFrey Right?!
 
[...nodeList].forEach
<3
 
@Mosho so
so jQuery is a polyfill then? because babel is a better one
 
8:32 PM
babel isn't a polyfill
 
@SterlingArcher nodelists have .forEach on the prototype now
@Mosho babel offers them
 
babel comes with core-js
 
@BenFortune And it makes you realize how much of a pain cross-browser compatibility can be
 
and eventually you can remove that dep.
can you ever remove jQuery and have the same code work?
 
@rlemon no one is getting rid of babel anytime soon
but wait
 
8:33 PM
(frt, I'll argue jQuery from both sides all day long, I see the pitfalls and benefits of it)
 
why are we talking about babel
this was about DOM
 
because you mentioned that jQuery is filling a cross browser issue
 
2 mins ago, by Mosho
@rlemon not cross browser
 
that's a big selling point for jquery
 
or was
 
8:34 PM
working CB isn't just about polyfilling
disclaimer: I have never used jquery
 
yea I'm not a fan either.
but this type of discussion is sometimes fun
 
never?!
 
n-e-v-e-r
 
I've never used it aside from tinkering
 
I tried it but never worked with it
 
8:36 PM
I see merit if you want an abstraction. but it isn't 'better code' in a long run
modern DOM is nice to write. and compiles to work on all systems
clear winner imo
with that said, I prefer React
React is nice
 
gotta find time to try vue
 
monkberry before vue
but yea, I'll try vue
 
does that do more than just fast templating
 
@SterlingArcher Suddenly I get the urge to cook some semen
 
8:41 PM
I never waste protein
 
-_-
:burns computer:
 
how can I look back at the chat history when someone replied to something I said like 5 days ago.
 
click the arrow next to the reply
 
> Here are a few techniques for getting a girl in the mood:
Be attractive and confident.
Shit
 
@SterlingArcher Yea, you're fucked.
 
8:47 PM
There are just as many pooping related advices here as there are sex
 
@SterlingArcher What the shit is that thread
 
It's fascinating
 
> If you're going to be old school and use a sheep intestine condom, remember to first take the intestine out of the sheep.
 
@SterlingArcher I don't think shitting attracts women
 
guys, Im little confused about js setup im trying to do
 
awww.. that meta trainwreck got deleted again :/
 
@SterlingArcher serioulsy. best thread ever
 
lemon sent me that one earlier, its a wild read
 
8:54 PM
Is gulp needed if you use webpack
 
oh wait no it's back
 
I just trynna setup react.js
 
@meda no
 
please give me recommended setup
for 2017 lol
js moves to fast
 
thanks guys
 
guys :\ should reselect update after an object has been updated? Doesn't seem to work according to plan
 
so this is the recommended way
it seems to be for creating stand alone react app
 
@SterlingArcher I'm done
 
9:01 PM
man I missed the JQ discussion :(
 
@KendallFrey Yikes!
 
had a meeting with my boss
 
@BenFortune lol
 
JQ is great if you're in 2012
if you're in 2017 and defending JQ you're just a troll (semi /s)
:P broad statements for the win
/me ducks out
 
even 2016 is too old it seems
js moving at speed light
 
i'm working on getting webpack to generate my html file, but i'm running into a problem
3rd party root document -> iframe src=my_index.html -> bundle.js
prod: product.example.com -> product.example.com/my_index.html -> product.example.com/bundle.js
dev: product.example.com -> product.example.com/my_index.html -> localhost:8080/bundle.js

how do i get `webpack-html-plugin` to use `localhost:8080/bundle.js` in dev and `product.example.com/bundle.js` in prod
 
> Every day you buy a Big Mac, you take one ingredient and keep it. Then, by the end of the week you have a free Big Mac.
what the hell lol
 
did my question make any sense
 
at a high level yes. i usually avoid that problem by using relative urls, but no idea if that's even relevant to your case.
 
if you set the environment variable NODE_ENV=production when building for production you can check that in your webpack config and set things up accordingly but personally I just use hjs-webpack because life's too short
 
9:18 PM
@ivami i'm already using process.env.npm_lifecycle_event; to detect what npm run command was run
 
@NathanJones you use webpack in production? why
 
wat
 
@meda i don't have a good answer to that other than "because it (seems to) work"
 
@SterlingArcher Did you see the new big mac? Holy hell, it looks like a monster.
 
the grandmac?
 
9:19 PM
I'm assuming he doesn't use the webpack-dev-server in production here, but using webpack to create a bundle for use in production is... well... normal
 
@KevinB Yea
 
@ivarni yeah, that's what i'm doing. only dev-sever in dev.
aha! webpack-html-plugin uses webpack's output.publicPath option to create their paths. so giving publicPath an absolute URL fixes my problem, I think.
 
oh ok
 
@NathanJones Again, you have two webpack configs and you call the one you want in dev or for prod
 
why does drag and drop stop working after dropping something?
 
9:28 PM
@NathanJones Sounds like you'd have solved the problem if you'd have had a rubber duck.
 
we are a rubber duck
 
@SterlingArcher So...I have a job interview Monday with another company in your neck of the woods.
 
@BenFortune that solution seems to work fine for creating a stand alone app
 
@MadaraUchiha i'm basically already doing that, but i have a single webpack file and i use webpack-merge to add extra options for dev/prod
 
I was actually trying to integrate it in a existing projext
 
9:46 PM
I just love how the white supremacist leader has a frog between his first and last name on twitter
Chelsea Manning was a traitor. . . but we live in traitorous times. @AltRight_com http://www.altright.com/2017/01/17/our-kind-of-traitor/
oh wait, you don't see the handle nick
 
i'm still having trouble with how i'm creating my iframe's src
but maybe this is another XY question
can i describe my environment, or should i move this to an SO question?
 
feel free
maybe make it one long message so in case we can't help you, you can easily paste
 
does anyone know the max message length?
 
gist
 
or just ask on SO and paste a link here
 

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