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12:00 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Speaking of religious debates...
 
the fact whether something is a language feature or not is irrelevant
 
@BartekBanachewicz point taken
 
We lose a lot of time fighting each other instead of using that time to advance socially, scientifically and in other ways. You could surely calculate this time.
 
The sad truth is that always neighboring countries like to stab you in the back when you least expect it
even if you are almost the same people
we had this with Serbians
 
@Retsam FWIW the fact that if is language feature in haskell is very annoying
 
12:01 PM
@zigi Looks at Canadians suspiciously
 
@BarackObama Some people in both parts wouldn't really like social advances.
 
@zigi Looks at Americans suspiciously
 
@Retsam in the future everyon will talk with Canadian accent, ey?
 
@zigi What neighboring country do you like to stab ? Or is there an exception to your rule ?
 
in the future everybody speaks a mix of Mexican and Canadian in America because Mexico and Canada would ally to take over
 
12:02 PM
@zigi @dystroy And that's a sad thing. I wonder if one day we'll put our weapons down and start growing faster.
 
why are we talking about countries
 
@BartekBanachewicz because Haskell is too hard
 
@zigi Canada's not going to be taking over anything anytime soon
 
@BartekBanachewicz I dunno, why are you talking about Haskell?
 
haha apparently
cause Haskell is nice
 
12:03 PM
@dystroy it's really not
@Retsam because it's awesome.
 
(joking)
 
there are people who really think it's hard though
 
what's hard?
Haskell?
 
while what they really mean is that they find the paradigm shift hard
@zigi yep
 
I think they are just lazy to read and experiment enough
it doesn't look that hard
 
12:04 PM
it's not always about being lazy
 
@Retsam not really interested in a pro-/anti-religion debate, so I'll let this stand as it is. There are way too many factors. I'd call myself agnostic
 
I think it's more they find it hard to enter into a different paradigm when they don't see why and have tools they already successfully apply
 
being used to something completely different for a long time is also an important factor
 
Let's create a human pangea :-)
 
well with me it is the fact that I don't know something it's because I am too lazy to go into it, or I find something more appealing
 
12:04 PM
@dystroy yeah, also that; not seeing the point.
 
@BartekBanachewicz quite true, indeed, but that doesn't mean there aren't people that like new stuff
 
And it's sad because to see the point you have to learn it :D
Because some of the features that would make you want to learn it won't make sense until you learn it.
 
Not really because if there is someone that can give you good reasons to do it
it might stimulate you
 
@GNi33 Cool. Good practice for not starting religion debates is not opening with "I think organized religion should go away", for future reference.
 
I think religions should all disappear
 
12:06 PM
@BartekBanachewicz sometimes there are crazy people like me that just do it just cause it's new and for the experience and then find those features so basically it's a double win situation
 
@dystroy no
 
@Retsam I disagree. You can talk about religion from social perspective, not being religious at all.
 
@BartekBanachewicz only problem with my approach is that I wast my time with stupid stuff sometimes
 
@JanDvorak no what ? I do think it
 
@dystroy I disagree it should disappear
 
12:08 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Debating the social effects of religion is still a religious debate, no?
 
> Science is everything then why can't a religion wouldn't have science? and yes I have my own science and everybody does too. – Mr_Green 1 hour ago
@Retsam I don't see how stating the need for religions to disappear makes such debate impossible.
 
@BartekBanachewicz You don't see how that statement might cause a debate?
 
@Retsam I can see it would make a lot of people butthurt
 
@Retsam I don't see why it's a bad practice then.
 
well yeah. All I wanted to know is how much influence does religion have on the Gaza conflict right now
 
12:11 PM
@Cereal Ah, "butthurt" - "when someone who I disagree with takes offense at a statement I made".
 
@BartekBanachewicz "@Mr_Green that just makes it painfully obvious that you have no idea what science really is." what do you mean by this?
 
@GNi33 it's a complex question as religion isn't only a goal but a mean
 
No, "butthurt" - when you take extreme offensive to any comment
 
@GNi33 Nothing much really. Palestinians have other reasons than religion. The reason are the ones I said a few messages earlier.
 
!!urban butthurt
 
12:12 PM
@Cereal ButtHurt An inappropriately strong negative emotional response from a perceived personal insult. Characterized by strong feelings of shame. Frequently associated with a cessation of communication and overt hostility towards the "aggressor."
 
@Mr_Green I mean that statements like "I have my own science" just make you sound dumb.
 
People that are religious believe that sience is also a type of religion
which is really retrograde
 
it's not even wrong.
 
@zigi That's just perverting the words to try to delete them
 
@BartekBanachewicz "You have your own science?".. I said yes. the question was dumb so the answer is
 
12:12 PM
@zigi That doesn't make sense
 
Not all religious people
but some extremists
 
@Mr_Green No, the question wasn't dumb at all. You've mentioned "science of hindu religion".
That's why I asked.
 
reread your comment again
 
I did reread it.
 
who is starring the comments? :P
 
12:14 PM
You still seem to think that you have your own science and I really have no idea how that might go as an acceptable ever.
 
I've had this discussion with a girl that I tried to explained something logical to her and she said, not everyone is interested in all the details of your science, the fact is that there is always something magical and wondrous you cannot explain, and then I explain it to her with some backup facts and she tells me again that I am going too much into details and things can't be explained that way.
 
That's really the same as saying "I have no idea what science is or is not".
Hence my comment.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I meant human body....
 
whaa.. what.
 
yeah
 
12:15 PM
seriously.
you should see my face now.
 
yeah I can see your profile pic.. hehe
 
@Mr_Green what, again?
 
What you have in your mind right now is an extremist really. I am Muslim but I also "believe" in modern science. I don't even pray like you would imagine, just in my mind. But I will if a Muslim person invited me, and I even go to the Church when my Christian parents have a celebration.
 
she told me, learn to respect other peoples wishes to not understand everything as you do
 
Is science "a religion"? No. But a lot of people have views regarding science that are at least metaphysical beliefs.
 
12:16 PM
@Mr_Green my profile pic has a slight skepticism and disbelief. My face right now just says "what".
 
@BartekBanachewicz ok
 
I still don't know what the fuck you had in mind
"human body"? how is that relevant to anything
 
@Mr_Green Just to be sure : you're in fact speaking about the medical practices and the structured corpus of facts/beliefs/opinions coming with them in the hindu culture ?
 
@dystroy nope
I am speaking about science in all religions
 
THERE IS NO FUCKING THING SUCH AS SCIENCE IN RELIGIONS
 
12:19 PM
@Mr_Green As a religious person, can confirm: I have no idea what Mr_Green is talking about.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I thought yours is a dumb comment. so I replied with that.
@BartekBanachewicz there is
 
@Mr_Green so what's science then
 
As someone raised religious: I have no idea what @Mr_Green is talking about either
 
do fucking educate me.
 
!!define science
 
12:19 PM
@Cereal [science](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki?curid=6670) (countable) A particular discipline or branch of learning, especially one dealing with measurable or systematic principles rather than intuition or natural ability. [from 14th c.]



Of course in my opinion Social Studies is more of a science than an art.
 
rainbow on black canvas animation suggestion?
@BartekBanachewicz how about this: science is a religion
 
There is some measuring in religion
for example Jesus made from 2 fish multiple and from water some wine
 
it's something you believe in, which may seem nonsense for others
 
@zigi dick measuring doesn't count
huehue
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum You didn't specify
 
12:21 PM
@BartekBanachewicz there is science in everything.. IMO..
 
@BarackObama I don't think they were there before, or that it matters, but we agree on everything else.
 
@BartekBanachewicz What do you mean?
 
@BartekBanachewicz SCIENtology ;)
 
that's metaphysics right there with accelerated fermentation
 
problem with science and measuring is, you have to define your own reality and smallest definitions to make any useful statements and sense out of your measurment
 
12:21 PM
@towc In the loose sense of the word, yes
 
guys, does someone here believes there is "Science" in everything?
 
@BarackObama there were pogroms, but generally yes. There is really no good reason to fight. No sane Israeli wants this war, or whatever is going on in the west bank.
 
@Mr_Green I don't know as I don't understand what you mean here
 
that in turn means, if you're fishing the sea and you've created a mash with 5cm cross-section dimensions... everything you can't catch isn't reality for you
 
@Mr_Green Depends on what you mean. There is no element on the periodic chart named "science"
 
12:22 PM
@Mr_Green Science is the procurement of knowledge. Of course it's in everything.
 
As one great singer once said
 
thats the biggest problem in our "science" imho
 
"Spirit moves through all things" "Science has failed our mother Earth"
 
oh dear
 
also, you may try to argue with someone that your religion exists in any way, and they might not believe you, same with science... Religions have temples and prays, Science has labs and experiments, and both of those work if you ask to both of the parts
 
12:23 PM
@towc it's really not
@Mr_Green no, tell me what "science" is. Not "where it is.
 
@towc Ehh... even as a religious person, no, not really.
 
@dystroy I meant simply whether Science can be in anything related in this universe or which is theory..
 
religion is based on some undisputable pillars, same goes for the laws of science
 
@Mr_Green ah so that's science for you (hint: it's wrong)
 
@Retsam what do you mean?
 
12:24 PM
yeah you're really not even wrong
 
@BarackObama Some Palestinians (like Hamas) do refuse Israel's existence, at least that's what our news tells us.
 
@towc An essential point about science is it's based on the possibility its facts can't be verified or refuted
 
@towc faith vs observation.
@towc and both are extremely different
 
Science and religion generally address different questions. Science answers questions about the physical world; religion generally answers questions that go beyond the physical world.
 
mistake here: at least that's what our news tells us.
 
12:25 PM
@dystroy same goes for "god exists" in religion
 
science fails to recognize the single most potent element of human existence - letting the reigns go to the unfolding, it's all faith, faith, faith
 
will someone be mad at me if I bin the last hour?
 
@Retsam the holistic religions are very concerned about our world
@FlorianMargaine yep.
 
@towc No : religions are all based on the notion of sacrilege : you're not allowed to prove god doesn't exist
 
12:25 PM
did... did I cause of all this?
 
@BarackObama I do appreciate the discussion by the way.
 
I'm so sorry ;_;
 
@Retsam so, multiplication of fish isn't something physical, and hormons aren't "spiritual"?
 
spiritmovesthroughallthings
 
@GNi33 yes, we'll hang you
 
12:26 PM
@GNi33 Yes! Feel bad!
 
what have you done @GNi33 !!?
 
:D
 
@towc some religions are concerned with "miracles" in our world
 
@BartekBanachewicz ok then tell me what is science then? (Hint: try to tell in one line)
 
@dystroy try to prove that gravity does not exist, people will laugh at you=society won't allow you to do it
 
12:26 PM
@Mr_Green Science (from Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge"[1]) is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe.
 
There are dictionaries for that
 
science has failed our world, sience has failed our Mother Earth
 
@towc I did say "generally."
 
@towc That's not true at all. Science is all about that. People will laugh at you if you're stupid in your attempt
 
@towc you don't really get how science works
well most of the people don't apparently.
 
12:27 PM
!!urban science
 
To be fair, Science isn't "100% provable, unrefutable" and religion isn't "100% faith, unprovable"
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Whoever there was, Israeli have a right to own that piece of land, that is Jerusalem and surrounding places. The issue at hand is another. We also don't want, just a peaceful living (meaning no aggressive grip on our land either) and right partitioning. Nothing much to ask. Thank you, I do too. It's a relief when we can speak in a rather constructive way, which is happening very rarely lately.
 
@dystroy then some will listen to you, which is how new religions were born in the first place
 
I just described it
 
@Cereal Science Knowledge or a system of knowledge covering general truths or the operation of general laws especially as obtained and tested through the scientific method and concerned with the physical world and its phenomena.
 
12:28 PM
@CapricaSix That had a lot less dicks in it than I was expecting
 
@BartekBanachewicz Science is like a hamster. You have to feed it every other day, and clean after it's poop. Oh, also they like lettuce.
 
science is only an approach to reality, it can never be or describe reality
 
anyway
the fact that Area 51 allows such people post such proposals and the fact that we can't downvote them to -50 is a bit wrong in my eyes
 
The relationship between religion and science has been a subject of study since Classical antiquity, addressed by philosophers, theologians, scientists, and others. Perspectives from different geographical regions, cultures and historical epochs are diverse, with some characterizing the relationship as one of conflict, others describing it as one of harmony, and others proposing little interaction. Science and religion generally pursue knowledge of the universe using different methodologies. Science acknowledges reason, empiricism, and evidence, while religions include revelation, faith and...
 
I mean it's obvious that it will die.
But still.
@Mr_Green yes we can all search fucking wikipedia thank you
 
12:29 PM
@BartekBanachewicz what's wrong with them discussing between them ?
 
you should have done that before going to Area51 and arguing with me
 
@BartekBanachewicz you should then
 
@BarackObama I don't think you just want a peaceful living you want to prosper and to grow as a proud and respected nation. We want that too. I think the reason that isn't happening is because the people in charge are a) too scared to do that or b) opportunistic or c) being lobbied by military superpowers like the US.
 
(I mean, is it more wrong than any cult enjoying itself without bothering others?)
 
@Mr_Green Why do you assume I didn't? It's you spewing out uneducated bs, not me.
 
12:30 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I know you didn't
 
In the Netherlands where I live 60% of the people are Atheists
or just don't care
 
not caring ftw
 
@Mr_Green The whole concept of "science in religion" is what gives you away as a total ignoramus.
 
@BarackObama So we have this ridiculous state where 1400 Palestinians and 60 Israelis are dead, as well as many people displaced (not just in Gaza, in southern Israel too) because of short sighted people. It's not just that - it's corrupting people, making them more war driven and less rational. It's quite a horrible situation imo.
 
12:31 PM
@Mosho Labels are too restrictive...
 
I come from a country which was Communist until 1989 so religion was prohibited
 
@BarackObama The problem is no one really knows what to do about it. Any one sided move won't work and no side trusts the other enough to actually do something about it.
 
@dystroy It irks me.
 
@BartekBanachewicz so because you dont like it, it shouldnt be allowed
 
@BenCraig It's not when they openly and peacefully debate that religious people irk me
 
12:32 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum I think the only problem that is prevalent is that people are egoistic, that is the root of the problem
 
The entire concept of "science vs. religion" is a bit of a misnomer. The two really aren't in existential conflict.
4
 
they are.
 
@dystroy was that to me?
 
if all of the people living in that area were good enough to say, yes we are not greedy basterds
 
If you accept science, there's really very little place for religion.
 
12:33 PM
and we care more about the greater good
 
No
Thats false
 
@Mr_Green Hu ? I mean I see no problem in this forum. I don't see how you could take it as an insult. It wasn't in any way.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Oh yeah? I can't follow the scientific method and believe in the existence of an all-knowing God?
 
hm not really
 
@Retsam That's the "very little" I've mentioned. Such meekly defined god can always be brought up.
 
12:33 PM
what physical form does that all-knowing God has?
from what kind of energy is he built?
 
@Retsam Finally someone says something truly intelligent in this room
 
you don'
 
Which part of my belief in God stops me from making a hypothesis, testing it through experiment, and then drawing conclusions from the result?
 
@dystroy I didn't take anyone as insult here.. I am just saying to bartek why you take that science is not related to religion.
 
@Retsam most of the most religions axioms
like dunno, fucking walking on water.
 
12:34 PM
@Retsam well do it, prove that there is one and we would all make our decisions whether we are right to serve him or not
 
you can only keep the indefinite eternal god that has no impact on anything whatsoever
 
Ockham's razor simply prevents religions
 
try anything else and you'll be in conflict.
 
oh come on now, you won't take lines from thousands years old books for real
 
@BartekBanachewicz Regarding miracles: Believing an omnipotent God who is outside the power of the physical laws of our universe is different than believing there are no physical laws to our universe that can be measured and described through scientific experiment.
 
12:36 PM
I am more inclined to believe that cats are controlled by aliens
 
I think cats ARE aliens
 
@zigi Of course I can't prove God scientifically. Science only works on this universe. God created this universe.
 
There's a deficit in interesting javascript questions here
 
and that the pyramids have something to do with other centient beings
 
@Retsam what @dystroy mentioned, Ockham's razor
 
12:36 PM
!!urban Ockhams razor
 
@Cereal Could not process input. Error: Unexpected end of input: Expected ' on line 41 on column 15
 
@Retsam where does he reside if he created the universe?
 
@Cereal [Ockham's Razor](http://ockhams-razor.urbanup.com/4431966) On Truth & Reality
The Spherical Standing Wave Structure of Matter (WSM) in Space

A Very Brief Introduction to Ockham's Razor
(What is the Most Simple Science Theory of Reality?)

This is a very short answer to a very important and strangely neglected question. For the complete article please see: The Most Simple Scientific Theory of Reality
 
you can't disprove that, and the fact you can't is irrelevant
 
before creating it and why was he/she/it there
 
12:37 PM
@dystroy or anything interesting, really
 
the burden of proof lies on the person adding an object or connection
if you want to tell me that there are forces in this universe that are controlled by some whatever god, the burden of proof lies on you
 
some one help me out, whats the topic right now
 
and since there's no fucking way of proving that ever (because that'd contradict the god's omnipotence), such statements are moot
 
@BartekBanachewicz "Burden of proof" only applies if I were trying to rigorously prove the existence of God. I'm not.
 
@jAndy the topic is "How do you do recursive promises in Haskell with side effects ?"
 
12:39 PM
@Retsam So what you're trying to tell me? That I can't disprove god? That's meaningless.
 
@Cereal Ockham's razor is a guideline, nothing more
 
ok now I understand why the word "god" has fallen so often
 
Doesn't mean the simpler solution is necessarily the right one, just that it is likely
 
@dystroy combine promise and IO/State
 
What Neil said about Ockham's razor. It's not a tool for disproof; you can't "disprove" something with Ockham's razor.
 
12:39 PM
@Neil Most things shouldn't be taken as absolute truth, I was just curious to know what it was
 
@BartekBanachewicz yeah, now @Mr_Green, what do you think of that ?
 
Which is what you seem to be trying to do @Bartek.
 
@Retsam there's literally an infinite domain of things you cannot disprove, and god is one of them
so what.
 
@Retsam quick question: If god is omnipotent, then he can create anything he likes, right? Then by this logic he can create a rock that can't be lifted by anyone including himself. Than if he can't lift the rock he isn't omnipotent, but if he can lift the rock this means he can't create such rock so he is still not omnipotent.
 
that's what the Ockham's razor is all about.
 
12:40 PM
Boom, blew your mind
 
@Retsam It means : Why would you have this unnecessary belief in the first place ?
 
@zigi Yeah, six year old me was really impressed with that paradox.
 
the fact that it's all about the things you can prove, not the things you cannot disprove
 
@Retsam so as you can see, there can't be any such state
 
@BartekBanachewicz that's quite false.
 
12:41 PM
@zigi Religious people all have thought about that and that's not really preventing them from believing
 
Though it should also be said that when there are two theories that, for all intents and purposes of observation, cannot be distinguished from one another, the more complicated shouldn't be considered better
 
Actually, God can't do anything outside his nature, his nature being that he's a perfect, and perfectly logical being. Creating a paradox is outside his nature, so no, he can't create a rock that he can't lift.
 
@Retsam that's one example of how religion can't really coexist with science.
 
are you guys truly arguing about the existence of an omnipotent god ?
 
@Retsam now you're changing the definition of omnipotence
 
12:42 PM
or is that just .. a thought experiment
 
@Retsam so what, did Satan invent the paradoxes to make us non-believers be against God?
 
see that's what religion is all about
 
@BartekBanachewicz you haven't read a single article about this have you? :(
 
@dystroy I would say a lot of religious people are religious due to the afterlife prospect, rather than anything else. A safety net to make them feel better.

Just my own anecdotal thought
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum no, that's exactly true
 
12:42 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Changing? That's pretty much always what the definition of omnipotence has been. You simply were misunderstanding it...
God also can't sin. That doesn't make him non-omnipotent.
 
Existence is not a property of an object
 
@Cereal yes, of course, but that's not a part which is compatible with a scientific approach of the religion
 
@Retsam can I have a list with all things considered sin?
how do you know if watching porn online is a sin
 
Here, read something.
 
there wasn't internet when god spoke with his messiahs
 
12:43 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Induction tells us exactly squat
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum We obviously want that too, and that wouldn't mean that either country shall be cut off, but first thing that shouldn't miss in a human livable country is freedom from external control and aggressive grip that is also a "side-effect" of peace.

I (and many palestinian friends) too suspect that the US is being accomplice in this, not sure if that's Obama though. He seems "bedridden" in a political way, or rather a puppet.
We should just collaborate to create livable prosperous countries and leave out US intervention in that. Look at Turkey for example.

It was initially inhabited by Greeks and other minorities, then Turks came and invaded it. What happened then? Greeks were relocated to Greece by the then Turkish "government" and there is no conflict by either part as far as I know of.

Same thing about Canada, altough I'm not so sure about that.
 
@BartekBanachewicz it's actually specifically about what you cannot disprove
 
please tell me that watching porn online is no sin
 
but to me, it's mostly about what you can achieve with your conclusions
 
I would be proper fucked
 
12:44 PM
@zigi Anything outside of God's nature, i.e. anything short of perfection, is sin.
 
When you're done with that article, read about the new induction problem @BartekBanachewicz , if you want to read about the old induction problem (Hume)
 
@Retsam Wouldn't that depend on the god?
 
@Retsam I try to be close to perfection, does that make me close to god?
 
Canada was invaded by Turks ?
 
@Mosho there's an infinite amount of things you cannot disprove
 
12:45 PM
@zigi Vanity is a sin. Go to hell, sinner!
 
@zigi Yes.
 
hence, we should concern ourselves with an infinite amount of possibilities of everything
that makes reasoning quite interesting
 
@dystroy Canada was invaded by French.
 
@BarackObama I think we agree here, but I think we don't know how :( That's the problem. Have you ever visited the Gaza strip?
 
@Cereal It's not a dependency, it's a definition.
 
12:45 PM
But that still means I am quite equal to the rest who are not that perfect
 
you can't, say, plan a trip, because you have to plan for alien attack.
 
@Retsam I don't think that defines all deities from all religions
 
@Neil I am a masochist so they better send me to Heaven, I'd die all over of boredom up there
Otherwise hell would be like a resort to me
 
sorry for ping ;;
 
@Cereal Let me clarify; I'm only talking about Christian belief here; and we only believe in a single God. I can't speak for other religions.
 
12:46 PM
Futhermore most of the heavy metalists and rockers are in hell for sure
 
Ah, okay
 
so I prefer to go ther and play satans guitar with them
@Retsam I believe in Zeus
 
@BartekBanachewicz seriously, read that Popper article I sent you, it's quite interesting and it's not computer sciencey at all.
 
and that if you continue on this topic he'd strike you with his mighty thunders
 
@zigi We're all imprefect, if that's what you're trying to say, yes.
 
12:47 PM
Actually heaven is much like hell in the sense that a great deal of what heaven is like doesn't come from the bible
 
Although, there are a lot of applications of the scientific method in computer science, mostly in machine learning.
 
@zigi that would in fact be an interesting element of proof
 
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the bible doesn't actually say we will sprout wings and meet our dead loved ones in heaven
 
Occam's razor is being applied through something called "MDL learning" which is a form of non-uniform learning in which you prefer hypotheses that are less complicated.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum in the middle
 
12:48 PM
@Neil Correct. We're not "angels" in heaven either.
 
so far "a good theory restricts possible things" seems to agree with me
 
Angels are separate beings according to the Bible, not dead humans.
 
@BartekBanachewicz his main claim is that science is not inductive.
Quine goes further and actually compares science to Religion :D
 
@Retsam @Retsam I was never a true Christian, I am never baptized because of the communists in my country not letting people do stuff like that. My grandparents still go to church. Anyways, I still do many things that are considered more Christian than more of the "true" Christians do, so it's all about the end result, not what you try to convey to others that you are
 
Yeah, you seem to see that idea pervaded often in movies and pop culture in general
 
12:49 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Yes that will hopefully emerge one day soon I hope. Yes I did and it's not good vision if I should be honest. That's "normal" for the situation though. I'm frequently in Germany, Italy and Egypt though.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I don't really see how induction is related to that TBH
 
room topic changed to Not JavaScript Right Now - Please save us, come with some CS !: DO read this link: rules.javascriptroom.com. Before asking inform yourself on the XY problem goo.gl/taIqf :: YES! Angularjs is on topic here. stop asking. [ecmascript] [javascript] [mine] [mine] [mine]
 
@zigi Are you saying "Christians aren't perfect, either"? If so, I agree, 100%.
 
> Physical objects are conceptually imported into the situation as convenient intermediaries not by definition in terms of experience, but simply as irreducible posits comparable, epistemologically, to the gods of Homer
 
If you die, you can come back as a guardian angel (which the bible never mentions anything about a guardian angel)
 
12:50 PM
> For my part I do, qua lay physicist, believe in physical objects and not in Homer's gods; and I consider it a scientific error to believe otherwise. But in point of epistemological footing, the physical objects and the gods differ only in degree and not in kind. Both sorts of entities enter our conceptions only as cultural posits.
Beautiful quote imo.
 
> The criterion of falsifiability is a solution to this problem of demarcation, for it says that statements or
systems of statements, in order to be ranked as scientific, must be capable of
conflicting with possible, or conceivable, observations.
 
@Retsam I say it's not about what religion you believe and and say you are part of, but it's all about doing stuff correctly to make others and your life better and more pleasent
 
in a way, this makes sense in religion
it conflicts with observations
 
@BarackObama I hope to visit there myself at some point, Egypt too it's beautiful I hear.
 
so technically we could disprove religion
 
12:50 PM
Nobody did know about Sufi Islam here. It's rather a different viewpoint of Islam you have been taught by the media and internet.
 
everything about religion that we can't disprove is meaningless
 
@BartekBanachewicz Absence of proof for something isn't proof to the contrary
 
so @Benjamin either I haven't understood that or Popper agrees with me
 
@BartekBanachewicz the scientific analogy is the fundamental theorem of statistical learning. Or the "No Fee Lunch" theorem. It's pretty interesting, it shows that "If you can explain everything you can't really explain anything"
 
Sufism (Persian: تصوف‎ taṣawwuf; Arabic: الصوفية‎ al-ṣūfiyya) is a concept in Islam, defined by scholars as the inner, mystical dimension of Islam; others contend that it is a perennial philosophy of existence that pre-dates religion, the expression of which flowered within Islam. Its essence has also been expressed via other religions and metareligious phenomena. A practitioner of this tradition is generally known as a ṣūfī (صُوفِيّ). They belong to different ṭuruq or "orders" – congregations formed around a master – which meet for spiritual sessions (majalis), in meeting places known as zawiyahs...
 
12:51 PM
@Neil that's completely not what I meant.
 
@BartekBanachewicz It's popper, and the only part he disagrees with you is on science being inductive.
 
@zigi You're free to believe that; and I definitely believe in improving the lives of others... but I also believe in eternal consequences to actions and specifically to whether you believe in God or not, so I do think religion matters.
 
@BarackObama I know about that and I really like it
 
Really guys? Really??
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum What does so-called non-inductivity of science change in what I was trying to convey in this discussion?
 
12:52 PM
@BarackObama I'm quite ignorant about Islam, I learned Arabic for two years in high school but had a horrible teacher.
 
(Definitely read that as "surfism")
 
Two days in a row you're not doing anything else but talk about fucking religion
 
afaik, Popper said that any theory has to offer at least one experiment to falsify the statement respectively test for it. Translated.. you need to offer something where others can crash on your theory :P
 
@BartekBanachewicz well, for one thing you said "Science is inductive"
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Hope you do! I like it a lot! I can recommend Cairo because there are more people being able to speak English :-)
 
12:52 PM
I did?
 
@jAndy that's about right.
 
@jAndy agreed.
the more options for crashing the better theory you have (according to him)
 
@BarackObama what do you think about the political situation there with Sisi and all?
 
Anyways, since the natives are getting restless; I think I'll drop out of this discussion. (Though I'm always open to private discussion or discussion in other places, if anyone is interested)
 
I just find it rather pointless reading stories that don't bring me anything to learn from
 
12:54 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum well, that's what we were saying about the important thing in a scientific theory is that it is refutable
 
so essentially, again, the god you cannot disprove is so fucking irrelevantly stupid I don't even
 
@Kippie I know right? I vote in favor of starting a meta-religion debate, where we debate about whether or not we should debate religion.
 
@BartekBanachewicz read the Quine quote.
 
so religon right now is like the string theory. Its not really science because both don't offer at least one solid expriment to crash the statement
 
12:54 PM
Like going to the church on Sunday is kind of useless to me unless you use the time to socialize with the people there
 
lets sum it up like so please :P
 
@Neil No, that's a stupid idea. Having a meta-religion debate is the worst idea I've ever heard.
 
@jAndy so tell me again, how were they able to make quantum computers?
 
Now, meta-meta-religion debates on the otherhand...
 
@Retsam You're wrong, man. It's brilliant! We should totally discuss meta-religion.
 
12:55 PM
Science is not any more founded than religion and belief in the scientific method or that it represents reality is a thing. It's just at a much more fundamental level.
 
@zigi because of smart people like Planck ? :p
 
lol
 
@zigi What do you mean ? Quantum computers aren't based on string theory or did I miss some advances ?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum bullshit. I disagree with everything he said.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I haven't read the Talmud but is it true it teaches you how to be smart?
 
12:56 PM
@zigi Quantum computers loosely comes from some observations made which correspond with quantum theory
 
@dystroy based on quantum physics which is involved in string theory?
 
@zigi lol, no. It's interesting and philosophical but it's also a lot of BS.
@BartekBanachewicz read what he has to say first, get the context.
 
is it true
 
Quantum theory in terms of being able to predict what happens next, the most accurate theory we've ever devised
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Oh, when you learn Arabic word formation and derivation it becomes easier. Anyway you're good to go with English and French in most Arabic countries.

Well, I disprove of Sisi because 1) He came to power in a perfect dictatorial style (military coup) unlike democratically elected Morsi (first time in Egypt) 2) Hedoesn't really do anything and furthermore doesn't care about Palestine. He was appointed by Morsi because if he didn't he would be just a mediocre person now.
 
12:57 PM
Science does not aim to be correct, it aims to make a good prediction of the future.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum is it true people can trade and sell stuff in the Synagogue?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum His context is philosophical
I'm really not very good at philosophy
 
@BartekBanachewicz Quine? Hahaha, I hope to be a 10th of a scientist he was some day.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum he might be a fine scientist. That doesn't mean I can't disagree with him.
 
@zigi That's what religion should be, mystical not cultural.
 
12:57 PM
Bartek you are a hipster, aren't you?
 
I already stated this at thy very beginning, science as we know it as one fundamental problem. We have to create a shitload of "our definitions" and just create and/or approach to reality in order to make any meaningful measurements or statements. Science is crowded by such assumptions, numbers etc. It all makes sense within that virtual construct
but its still not truth
nor reality
 
@BartekBanachewicz you can disagree with him without hearing him out, but that'd be stupid.
 
but useful
 
@zigi Dunno what you maen by that, this word has really lost its meaning nowadays.
 
is that why you disagree with all mainstream believes
 
12:58 PM
on the other hand, you HAVE to create things like this to have science
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum how much of his papers do I have to read for you to accept that I might, in fact, actually disagree with him?
 
@jAndy I agree. Everyone in favor of returning to the dark ages say "Aye".
 
@BartekBanachewicz His point really is that science is about making predictions, and is completely decoupled from the truth. It's holistic like that and you believe in its ability to make good predictions.
@BartekBanachewicz 3
 
Aye
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum sigh
 
12:59 PM
All opposed?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum for gods sake
 
I want to bang chicks with clubs on the head and drag them to my cave
:D
 
next time you use "belief" and "science" in one sentence I'm going to smack you
I'm for fucking real
 
Dark Ages, YEY
 
@zigi That wasn't the dark ages. *facepalm*
 
12:59 PM
@BarackObama To be honest I'm scared of Morsi but I also disagree with what Sisi did, it was a dictatorial coup proper.
 
@Neil ah true
 
I guess we can make exceptions .. banging chicks should be fine
 
:(
 

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