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9:00 PM
(And IDs if not used ALONE in a selector are SLOWER)
 
@ErikReppen fine, you are correct... now run along and don't complain to us when 3 months down the line you are scratching your head because you've convoluted your css trying to maintain it with classes, elements, and ID's
 
seriously... even with small websites, if you're using IDs, you're gonna feel the pain as I did
 
Are you guys forgetting that I used to work with like 30 JS devs dealing with HTML that mutated organically for !@#$ing Sears?
 
@ErikReppen are you forgetting that means about jack squat
 
I had two choices: use !important or rego through 2000 lines of CSS and add IDs
I used !important.
 
9:01 PM
@FlorianMargaine I've used that once in my life... then before pushing it I had to remove it and find a new way...
 
it were my last days at the company, eff it :D
 
@ErikReppen Well it's not because you did something that you didn't do it wrong.
A lot of people are hurt when they use JSLint
A lot of people are hurt when they use CSSLint
 
because JSLint sucks
JSHint is pretty good
 
" But I always did that "
" Yes, but maybe It's time to begin to do an other way "
 
If the only IDs you're using are on unique sections for styles unique to those sections, you're not going to have any specificity problems, global changes to other parts of the doc are less likely have unintended impact and it's not at all hard to override.
 
9:03 PM
@ErikReppen what do you lose in using classes only?
 
It's like telling an Apple fanboy he's paying too much for the form, and negating the function. You will never win. He has convinced himself the chat room of professionals is wrong, and he is 100% correct in his thinking.
 
what you think when you develop a website never comes true at the end, so even though it may be absolutely certain that something's not going to change, it will change.
 
Let him shoot himself in the foot, and be done with it.
arguing this further seems pointless to me.
 
I'm talking about appropriate layers of specificity that can actually aid in stability.
 
aid in stability ?
take a look at oriented object css frameworks AND CSS pre processors if you want stability
but no ID selector.
 
9:06 PM
well on that note i'm outta here. gl everyone! and good day!
 
Bye
 
You start with general tags and really common classes, then you move to commonly re-used HTML patterns under classes, then if something is unique to a unique space, you define only the properties that are unique under that ID. I find that more stable. If everything inside an ID'd container is propped with IDs, yes, that's stupid. But if I'm specific on the stuff that is specific I can make more general cascading global changes that aren't going to impact those properties.
I don't have to worry about how many classes to "counter with," starting a CSS arms race.
 
Uh.. what a productive evening this was...
@Esailija Because jQuery tend to automatically include itself several times just for... no reason? But it seems there's some config option to turn it off because I've seen sites which only include one jquery file
 
and another 50 lines of code bite the dust
 
9:15 PM
\o/
 
Actually, 100. Another 150 are about to go down in flames
 
we've killed 1.2k lines of code today too, in our unitests
 
what is wrong with my website?
 
but only because the QA team tends to leave their dead code in their -.-
 
the green text ticker, and how do i fix it?
 
9:16 PM
nice
 
www.codtelevision.com
 
When you have a ton of devs on a team and it's all classes you start seeing people use .main-section .side-bar .side-nav > ul > li because they're worried about something specific to the side-nav breaking. A policy of IDs for unique section properties only and they know they'll be fine with #side-bar ul li
 
isStereotype(username + websitename) // true
it's always fun to teach people that these selectors are being evaluated from right to left, too :D
They're like "O_o"
 
yeah... I was too
 
@IvoWetzel What's adding multiple JQ instances? Are you dealing with a CMS?
 
9:18 PM
especially when I found out QSA used the same engine
so QSA('.c') is faster than QSA('#id .c')
 
@ErikReppen Dunno, seems to be the default behavior of jQuery, I've only seen a handful of websites as of lately which only had one jQuery file in it. Maybe it's a bug!
 
Is it the new version?
 
@IvoWetzel uuuh it's not, maybe an extension of your browser?
 
hm, seems like my sarcasm is not being detected here
:(
 
you're too serious for sarcasm to be detected :(
 
9:20 PM
Anyways, I want $.fn.duplicate! So I have a programmtic way to include multiple $'s!
Of course it needs to insert random old versions
The worst thing I've seen was on a internal project, they had 4 jquery files in it
 
wow nice
 
all loaded at the same time, all different versions
 
did they do $_1_4 = jQuery.noConflict(true) everytime? :p
 
no, they just dumped the files in there
a lot of requirejs code from multiple sub projects
 
oh
you're using requirejs?
 
9:22 PM
they all had to load jQuery, so they ended up load it 4 times
some people here do... I no..
 
do you know about browserify?
 
Biggest project has a 1.2k line Jakefile with tons of custom optimizations and uses uglify and co progamatically
 
or do you just use global namespace?
oy :|
 
Works like a charm
you do a fresh git clone
run ` jake build`
 
The Drupal community is fond of adding JQ libraries to every plug-in they write. Just in case you didn't have that covered I guess.
 
9:24 PM
and TADA! All dependencies including other git repos and npm modules are installed on the fly
Full build in < 1 minute
 
@IvoWetzel the "tada" must take some time
and what do you use?
 
All you need is Node.js and the jake module installed. Rest just works
 
I fell in love with browserify fwiw.
(all you need is node.js :p)
 
Custom build, for the most part it concatenates stuff
 
so you have a global app namespace?
I mean, you have to share stuff between your files
so you can't use only global variables
 
9:27 PM
all lives on one namespace
 
oh yeah, window.zynga
 
@SomeKittens I would have star if I had seen it.
 
Need to do some additional, custom obfuscation to get the file size down further though
 
@IvoWetzel just FYI, browserify makes you write node.js code that works in the client, but it's not very size friendly I guess
 
This is mainly targeted at browsers
@FlorianMargaine I've seen it, just didn't have the need play around with it just yet
 
9:30 PM
you don't need to play around with it, you can do it in any project! :p
 
The Jakefile does way more than building this one file, it generates documentation, packaging, cdn deployments, runs the tests
 
huh, cool
never used jakefiles so much
 
@dievardump aww. Though starring parses out the tag, so it's not funny anymore.
 
the thing got a special test suite around it with a really nice looking Browser test runner and a Node.js based version
it interacts with a python based doc generator and all kinds of stuff
 
(you've got to use this script if you want to use browserify though)
yup I see
and I guess the jakefile itself is generated? :p
 
9:31 PM
no, that would be insane :D
But i started working on abstractions
and will probably do more
 
well, working on a 1.2k lines files is insane
 
like hacking into the task parsing
it's split up into several files :)
 
most of it is utility stuff to work with git etc.
the Jakefile is completely cross platform
 
oh, nice
 
9:33 PM
you can git clone and have a build on windows in 1 minute \o/
it even uses a tar implementation in JS to create tar.gz packages
 
(npm tar-js)
 
JS has a tar implementation?
oh right, node.js
C++ module or js module?
 
js
everything else is madness
getting stuff to work on Linux, Mac and Windows...
Node.js is THE solution
5
 
@IvoWetzel Sarcasm wasn't detected because it didn't occur to me you'd be working with people that aren't competent.
 
9:34 PM
just works, one codebase, no extra paths
 
@IvoWetzel you meet Brian Reynolds at all?
 
@IvoWetzel same for python or ruby...?
 
I know Zynga is huge, but he works for them
a bit of a hero to me
 
You guys are so wrong on the ID thing. I'm not letting go of that. :P
 
9:36 PM
 
@IvoWetzel I agree, once you understand how to properly structure your modules it just kicks ass.
 
@Loktar No, don't think so, was in SF only once and I mostly talked with the tech and API guys
 
@OctavianDamiean and how to use npm? :x
 
@FlorianMargaine Python... depends, we're having quite a hell recently getting pip and co installed in a simple way. XCode moving to the AppStore broke many of the pre-built python installs, so you ended up compiling on your own...
ruby...
everytime I end up on a ec2 without rvm I just quit the ssh
 
yeah I see, node.js just works in all the environments
and npm does too
 
9:39 PM
Node.js biggest PRO is the installation.
 
nothing to do, it works.
 
One click.
Ok, on windows you need to patch your path, but then everything just works like on *nix
 
@FlorianMargaine :p
 
@Loktar who's Brian Reynolds?
 
9:40 PM
Brian Reynolds (born 1967) is a videogame designer who now designs online social games (e.g. on Facebook). Reynolds has designed at Zynga, Big Huge Games, Firaxis Games, and Microprose. He presently works as chief game designer at Zynga and has been chairman of the International Game Developers Association. He has played a major part in designing a number of multi-million selling games including Civilization II, Rise of Nations, Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri, and FrontierVille. Early life Reynolds made his first game sale with Quest 1 to SoftSide magazine, its August 1981 cover feature. He w...
 
@OctavianDamiean "properly structure your modules" what do you mean with that? not putting everything in one file?
 
I'm really focused on people being able to get up and running with the project in 5 minutes
 
Doctrine ? A way to cast in queries ?
 
rawQuery or something IIRC
 
1 message moved to bin
 
9:40 PM
@Loktar I see ^^
@IvoWetzel ?
 
@FlorianMargaine Basically how to break your entire code down in the appropriate files.
 
@FlorianMargaine something I had posted
 
22
Q: Using Raw SQL with Doctrine

Levi HackwithI have some extremely complex queries that I need to use to generate a report in my application. I'm using symfony as my framework and doctrine as my ORM. My question is this: What is the best way to pass in highly-complex sql queries directly to Doctrine without converting them to the Doctrin...

@IvoWetzel yeah the url to the minified api, we can still see it, the question is "why to bin" :p
 
dunno, paranoid I am :P
 
@OctavianDamiean aah...
 
9:42 PM
@FlorianMargaine gné ? I just want to do an ::integer
 
@IvoWetzel delete, it is better than just moving.
 
oh, got you wrong
 
can't, it's too old
 
Oy.
Mark it for the diamonds.
They'll come along and delete it for you.
 
@dievardump db engine?
 
9:43 PM
wow... using '::integer' in my query break the ClassLoader
O_o
 
there are some ways, but it depends on the db engine
 
The bin is Google indexed as well.
 
postgres
 
@OctavianDamiean Good idea
Anyways, working for 7 months on the project now, pretty much my baby
 
9:44 PM
@IvoWetzel so your project was "make it easy for people to get the project up"?
 
@FlorianMargaine That, and implement / document / test all of the api stuff
 
I gotta say that I'm really pleased with this Coursera algorithm course. The other courses were meh but this one is pretty good.
 
(although QA handles api tests, I only have a guzillion of mocking tests for the main API, testing everything from return values, to every single error message it can throw)
And it throws A LOT of error message
 
TEST ALL THE THINGS!
 
9:46 PM
@FlorianMargaine yes but not with DQL ;/
 
pretty much all the public API does type checks on inputs and many other things
 
Sorry, couldn't resist. :D
 
you cannot do wrong without a error message telling you exactly why things are failing
 
And then there's a ton of documentation and wiki pages...
 
9:47 PM
@IvoWetzel that was the worst, heh?
 
@FlorianMargaine It's ok once you got it started...
Adding some stuff here and there is always easy
 
@IvoWetzel I built this some days ago margaine.com/docgenerator
write your doc in separate markdown files, run docgenerator, html file generated
 
We're using github.com/zynga/jasy for docs, custom markdown doc format
 
generates a API Viewer too
 
9:49 PM
ah no
I didn't mean technical doc
rather documentation in general
 
oh yeah, completely forgot that the Jakefile also generates a ton of github pages
 
@rlemon The text outline should grow from the text edges outwards not inwards. Just sayin'.
 
"CAST(b.number, 'integer')"
FUUUUU
 
but yeah, 7 months of work, plenty of time to do stuff
 
@IvoWetzel hey, docgenerator is for node.js available in npm, not python :p
@dievardump did you create the cast?
 
9:50 PM
@FlorianMargaine Jasy actually uses the AST to figure out namespace relation etc. really handy
it can figure out a ton of obscure things
 
I don't know maybe
 
like the type of something being returned by a non dynamic function
 
That's not me
I looked into files we have
 
oh ^^
@IvoWetzel oh yeah, that's not exactly what docgenerator does :D
 
Thinking of it... all the stuff... so much code...
and annnoying jenkins build servers sending out tons of spam mails on every failure :D
 
9:56 PM
lol
oh btw @IvoWetzel
next week some regulars in this room are having a competition
make a js game
shooter from up view with one player vs ai
you can use canvas or dom
wanna play? :p
no reward except our admiration :x
 
wtf is wrong with Doctrine...
 
hm dunno if I find the time, and I tend to suck at such things, because I cannot write dirty code...
 
heh, I see what you mean
 
I need to force my self to NOT clean it up instantly
 
took me three days to write a snake game in canvas -_-
the canvas part didn't take me so long actually
 
9:58 PM
which of course is still 2x faster than most other people I know coding normally
Difference between my VIM and a mouse user... makes me cry ;_;
 
rather it was refactoring and thinking about a right architecture <<
 
@FlorianMargaine I know that...
 

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