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1:03 PM
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@MathiasMüller is open again =/
 
My flag on that post was just marked as helpful
or "helpful"
still unexpected though
 
What did you flag it as? o:
 
Can we not do the pointless flagging please?
 
@ivarni define pointless?
 
1:15 PM
follow-up, mod answer: "Please take it to the chatroom that Shog9 links to on the question." I did, so if any mod reads this message, can you please explain to me in a coherent way why this post can stay? I am not trolling, I am seriously trying to understand your actions.
 
I would love to know as well
 
@ivarni ah. Right, that flag was pointless
 
Ian
@Magisch I'd hope not. I voted to close originally, then started reading comments and retracted after I realised there was a close war going on. I still voiced my opinion with a downvote to say it's not a good fit for Stackoverflow - but I'm not going to enter into any wars on good fit or not - the question is bringing to the community, the exact opposite of the message it's trying to promote about social unity.
 
@vaultah Flags are only useful to make mods aware of content that requires their intervention. At this point, they are pretty aware of it already, so flagging doesn't help.
 
1:19 PM
@terdon Apparently they are not "pretty aware of it"
Ayy, it's closed again.
Starting a timer.
 
They are very much aware of the situation. That doesn't mean they have decided what to do about it. In any case, flags are simply noise at this point since nobody reading the flag will get any information from it they didn't have before.
 
There have been a couple of mods in this chat room already
 
The post has been closed for over a min now
 
@MathiasMüller Don't be surprised if CMs lose patience with you
You probably wont get another answer sides' "Because Joel did it"
 
(I would be surprised actually if someone got upset because of me, but thanks for reminding me. I'll stay silent now.)
 
1:29 PM
Is there any rightist opinioned answer on this 'question'? Haven't seen one...
 
@MathiasMüller This is a generally rational site. But tensions and passions run hot in this debate, and it's easy to be caught in the crossfire of a political opponent purge
If this was anywhere else but stackexchange we'd already be seeing hundreds of perma shadow bans handed out
 
@RaisingAgent I will write one. Soon.
And it will be quite heavily fact-reliant.
I am preparing for that right now though, so I will probably finish it soon.
 
nice knowing you
 
I am wondering how fast my answer will get deleted
My account suspended
^-^ ..
 
defending an opinion that the CEO of the website you're writing on called "stupid" and "repugnant and immoral". My 2 cents say that won't go over well
 
1:33 PM
I wouldn't recommend doing things that you believe will result in a suspension.
 
For now the question is closed anyway...^^
@Magisch I will not defend it.
I will impersonate it.
I shall become anti-left incarnate!
:>
 
@Seth reopened just now by a dev
 
Noice, back to writing then.-
 
@Seth I get an error: You're not moderator, you can't suspend accounts
 
@rene You wanted to suspend me? =(
Flower, backstabbing isn't nice!
 
1:36 PM
@Seth thorn pricking
 
If you don't want that to happen, then don't suggest it, right?
Suppose a mod tries the same ...
 
Naw, I said if I were to post an answer to that shameful "post" trying to argue pro-right and anti-left, I would probably end up getting suspended rather quickly.
Which is exactly what I will do.
And, in order to make it hurt really bad, I will deliver facts :3
A lot of facts.
I think I will leave insults out though, the CEO may proceed using those if he deems doing so necessary.
 
Doing something that you're sure will be seen as being against the rules in protest of something that you see as being against the rules doesn't sound like a very convincing idea.
 
Why does everything need to come back to archaic and anachronistic labels like right or left?
 
@TigerhawkT3 Not against the rules.
Just against the opinion of certain people.
@terdon Because that's what it sadly is.
 
1:39 PM
@terdon because thinking is hard
 
^^
@Seth It isn't and those labels haven't been relevant for decades. Most of us have more nuanced positions than the black and white labeling of right and left.
 
I mean the part where you're pretty sure it'll get you a suspension. I'm pretty sure we don't want to see unwanted behavior, from any side.
 
Ian
@Seth sure it is - you're posting a "discussion" point arguing a case which is off-topic for meta. Yeah sure, the original post is off topic, but using the same approach to argue the point is kinda hypocritical.
 
And calling Trump's executive order a thing of the right and opposition to it a thing of the left makes no sense at all when you look at what those labels actually mean. This has nothing to do with that at all.
 
@Ian Nope.
I am posting an answer.
 
1:41 PM
Yup
 
Not a new question.
I abide the rules, I did everything I could in order to close that question, didn't work.
 
@Seth I thought your whole point here was that there's no question. How can you post an answer?
 
@terdon the format I am posting in is "answer"
What I plan on doing is disassembling that nasty, polarised rant
And arguing against it.
Just for the hell of it.
 
As soon as we start debating the merits of the opinion presented in the question, we have accepted that the question is valid and should stay there.
 
@terdon Na.
 
1:42 PM
Cl
 
Don't try to make up stuff now, would you? :)
 
Bs
 
Now all we need is pepper and we can season some dinner.
 
^
 
Frankly, I would be interested to see how any rational person could possibly even try to defend that absurdity, but just please don't do it here.
 
1:44 PM
To be frank, as an outsider I look down upon the U.S. political system. It's not a democracy (with their idiotic two-party system), it's highly influenced by the rich, it's a childish game of "you're either with us or against us", ... I could go on. I consider it less civilised than actual first-world countries. You reap what you sow. The Meta post by Joel is just another symptom in all of this.
3
 
Practice what you teach and take it to your blog.
 
@terdon Again, again, again.
The goal here is to make the whole thread go puff
 
And here I was thinking we were trying to have a discussion and reach a consensus.
 
TIL the United States is a zeroth-world country. Good to know we're using proper indexing! \o/
 
The consensus is that the question is clearly off-topic.
We had reached that point 45minutes ago
If you recall.
 
user2654834
1:46 PM
That was reached last night. There is consensus. We are already informed that the post is invalid, but that as it's from the CEO it stays.
 
user2654834
That came from several moderators, who also promised to delete comments without reading them and refused to add a moderator comment as they didn't agree with the concensus
 
@Stijn First past the post voting system is responsible for that
In this system, you're either voting for the most popular alternative, or you're implicitly helping your worst nightmare candidate
 
Time for me to sleep... night all. o/
 
gn8 =)
 
user2654834
g/night!
 
1:50 PM
@KimberleyBarrass Yeah, that's the way it is. I just find it hard to accept that I cannot do anything, I even have to be afraid to ask in a polite way for justification of actions. Because it could lead to a ban and I care a lot about being able to contribute on SO.
 
user2654834
I believe that I will leave.
 
user2654834
I have no social media accounts because of the fact that these things occur on them, which is why it has affected me so badly.
 
^
 
@KimberleyBarrass Buckle up, 4 years of trump are coming
we're only 2 weeks in and we're already soapboxing on meta. There'll probably be a lot more of that
 
user2654834
@Magisch :) - Not for me. I avoid social media, don't have a TV and avoid the news sites.
 
1:54 PM
@KimberleyBarrass I mean here
 
user2654834
That's one of my problems though. Where does it stop?
 
They came for our..
 
@KimberleyBarrass It wont
 
user2654834
I believe you are correct
 
Joel has opened the door.
And that door will not close.
 
1:56 PM
Joel and Jeff are convinced that this is worth fighting against. And Joel has a website with ridiculous exposure.
 
Political correctness, SJW, gender-fighters, trump, and so on.
You will probably see a lot more of that on MSE/MSO in the near future :)
 
Doesn't make me happy, but I can respect fighting for what you believe in, and using all your pull to do so.
 
I will probably end up leaving.
I don't think it's worth contributing on a site ruled by despotism.
Because that's ultimately what this has come down to.
 
@KimberleyBarrass I don't want to disappoint you but how much you want SO to be a cozy bubble, sometimes it pops and then the harsh outside world will interfere. Don't leave for that reason. MSO needs balance. You're on one end, which is fine, others are on the other. Also fine. We work it out together, also fine.
@Seth meh, leaving solves nothing
 
@rene Meh, as you can see it doesn't really matter what we - as community - decide.
At the end, there are some guys, getting paid by one guy.
That one guy decides to rant about something, and be rude about it.
 
2:01 PM
You have to stand up, also against an CEO that posts stuff on the wrong medium
 
The other guys, being paid by him, decide to not interfere.
Sucks for us.
@rene Which is why I am writing an extensive "answer" right now.
Without insults :)
 
@Seth true, the place it not run by us, we are only guests here.
 
That also would be no problem for me.
 
@Seth Oh boy, that takes some effort ;)
 
The problem is that the guys running this place set up rules.
And now they're steamrolling over them.
Because "Fk logic, I am angry, I can do whatever I want"
This is just babyrage in its purest form
And that just makes me sad.
 
2:03 PM
@Seth Yeah, I saw someone comment that it's a classic example of "do as we say, not as we do"
 
@Stijn Ye...
 
user2654834
We aren't actually guests
 
user2654834
We are subscribers and the content we create is for the owners
 
I'm not American and although I have my own views on Trump, I don't feel my view is appropriate here since this is SO, not political overflow. But would a trump supporter be allowed to make such a post in making a stand for trump?
 
I'm shocked by he way the mods enforce their opinion on this specific post.
 
user2654834
2:06 PM
So we are contributing freely, for an organisation that seeks profit.
 
user2654834
I'm fine with that
 
user2654834
I do it with lot's of companies.
 
I didn't realise until I followed a link to a related question that the OP is God here. I wonder if one of God's understudies posted an pro-trump post, what would be the outcome? :D
 
user2654834
But I'm not fine contributing to a company where a political opinion is shown so outrageously
 
user2654834
against the services own guidelines
 
user2654834
2:07 PM
I love helping the community, and being helped. I despise helping a despot. Even one who has good intentions.
 
@Madivad Working on it. =) We will see.
 
@Seth
@Seth I'd appreciate a link when done, Would love to follow :D
 
user2654834
Here's my answer, which is intended to hold up a mirror to the partisan bias:

http://meta.stackoverflow.com/a/342588/2654834
 
user2654834
And Jason C's comment on the 'should it be closed' post, is siply outstanding
 
user2654834
simply*
 
2:12 PM
@KimberleyBarrass you have one up vote on the back burner there ;)
 
user2654834
I know. It's a day for meta voting I think! & I did not do it lightly, but I do think it will resonate. Like Seth, I think the ultimate outcome I desire is to see the question gone, but I am beginning to think that stay or leave I am left with concerns.
 
> I keep thinking about this and I can't escape this nagging feeling that Joel just trolled the crap out of all of us, and they spent all weekend sitting in the office watching the screen with a cooler full of beer and a few bags of popcorn. I can think of no other explanation. – Jason C
this one?
@Kim
 
user2654834
^^ :D ^^
 
user2654834
That one is good, but his longer answer in full:

http://meta.stackoverflow.com/a/342499/2654834
 
Just to add to the ridiculousness, a moderator has just closed meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/342561/…
 
user2654834
2:24 PM
It has yet to reach the OP levels, but it has been closed before too.
 
Pathetic.^^
 
user2654834
Every time it is closed it proves my point
 
user2654834
:(
 
user2654834
So. I'm done. - My contributions here serve no valid purpose.
 
Now we're getting mod re-opens from mods that already re-opened before.
So far for "community voting".
 
2:29 PM
Is it Friday already?
 
I wish
 
Am I the only one who thinks that the question goes beyond off-topic and into the realms of grossly unprofessional?
4
 
The diamond closing of @KimberleyBarrass' question is more outrageous than Trump's immigration policy (IMO), because I expect Trump to be biased. But if SO mods do this, I'm disappointed really and I did not expect it.
 
The lesson we learned today: Don't try to "discuss" politics online, especially not on a site as massive as SO. You're guaranteed to be dealing with the repercussions from it for weeks to come.
 
@AntP for whatever definition of "professional", the post is certainly personal and emotional. I guess he feels strongly enough about the issue and how it may affect his employees, the site, the larger community, to trump (hah) the importance of what some regard as professionalism.
 
2:37 PM
@Cerbrus if not 6 to 8 weeks ...
 
Well... cya @KimberleyBarrass
 
And re-opened again, comments wiped...
 
Nice try @Bart ...
 
I do what I can
 
@Bart contrarily I would say that as an employer using your company's product as a medium for your political rant shows a distinct lack of concern for your employees - whom you may very well be alienating - and in fact betrays this for what it really is; a self-indulgent rant behind a thin veil of concern for others.
 
2:41 PM
Comments like that are being deleted.
 
Well at least a mod was kind enough to tell me that Joel gets special treatment so his post gets to stay open. I guess that makes trying to close it useless and we should instead all go do something else, like go outside.
 
Yay transparency.
 
Seems like they're going to have to remove comments forever on that post
 
36 secs ago, by Cerbrus
Yay transparency.
 
@NathanOliver outside you mean Experts-Exchange?
 
2:42 PM
@NathanOliver You expected a different reply?
 
@rene I was thinking Yahoo answers
 
Or did you expect them to be less blunt?
 
@Magisch No, I just wanted them to fess up and actually say that they don't care, they are going to back Joel regardless of all our valid points.
 
@NathanOliver I knew that when I first viewed the question.
 
5 hours ago, by Cerbrus
Say I'd have won in the past elections, this would've been reason for me to step down. Dead serious.
 
2:44 PM
Actually, kudos to meagar for being the only mod who actually talks to the users, apparently.
 
#Cerbrus2018. Kinda. Meh...
 
@MathiasMüller Yep. At least he had the guts to give a response.
 
@MathiasMüller well, it is just noise
 
@RaisingAgent @Madivad There ya go
 
@MathiasMüller (I was referencing the remove all the comments to the post)
 
2:46 PM
I am extremely upset Joel assumes I know the inner workins and all the laws being ordered by the newly elected president. I did not know a pre-requisite of US politics was necessary to contribute here.
 
@Seth Daily upvote limit erreicht, gonna upvote in 9 hours. Tho I think this post will get you banned :P
 
@Seth: That's one goddamn good answer.
 
@RaisingAgent Might, might not
@Cerbrus Well thank you =)
 
This entire question is ... strange. It's basically a rant and I don't understand what it's getting at. It seems to be a general conversation-starter on a political topic rather than actually asking for input on something relating to SO. Also my comment asking for clarification on the purpose of the question was just removed :-/
 
@Seth
n1 never the less
 
2:48 PM
@Carpetsmoker Shog stated they'll be canning all further comments outright.
 
@Tunaki You can hit /review/politics now, please test your knowledge, but watch out for the audits ...
 
It is frankly stupid to require deep knowledge of how stuff works in the US on SO and require a discussion on something I don't know squat.
 
@Magisch Yes, that is a curious policy
 
@RaisingAgent thx c:
 
You guys are really missing the point of taking a stand. There's no neutrality in taking a stand.
 
2:49 PM
@TomášZato: SO is not the place to take a stand
2
 
Joel can take his stand.
Not here.
 
We don't come here for politics.
 
I take a stand
 
@Carpetsmoker Mhm. Understandable. This is personal for Joel, and he's made it personal. His company, he gets to decide what to put on meta. If he feels strongly enough about this issue to disappoint his user base by misusing meta, he can do that and has done that and other employees will back him up (he's their boss, after all).
 
The only stand we take here is against phpquerysharp
 
2:50 PM
@Cerbrus use jquery
 
that sounds political
 
Joel owns SO, or part of it. This is normally not relevant, but it is relevant when he decides to take stand against something.
 
Tomorrow he takes a stand on green tea and then what?
 
I guess you can lobby the shareholders to recall Joel, but thats a massive long shot, especially since he himself is a large shareholder.
 
@Magisch Well, that's true, I suppose. I still find it curious :-)
I suppose it's a sign of the times
 
2:52 PM
@rene sorry but this kind of reasoning is called slippery slope and is not valid.
 
@Magisch the company is not publicly owned. You call the private investors.
 
Tomorrow on workplace.SE: "My boss is overtly expressing political beliefs through our product: what should I do?"
14
 
One on hand, SO should stay out of politics ... On the other hand ... Wir haben es nicht gewußt
 
RE: removing comments: Since when can people be silenced by censorship, why do SE employees think this is the way to go? I don't get it.
 
@AntP enderland votes to close
 
2:53 PM
@TomášZato yeah, he better only stands on green tea not yet used. The dry leafs are less slippery
 
@MathiasMüller "free speech" doesn't apply here the way you think it does
 
I'm just amused at the numbe of people voting to close and reopen. In an apparent message to bring the ommunity together on greater issues..... it has been divided completely.
 
I think this is far more likely to influence the situation in a positive way than a political grandstanding post. By highlighting the facts and not politicizing them directly, it makes a far more compelling case to people who may agree with Trump's policy - it shows evidence and builds a case. Rather then sensationalizing it. — enderland 11 secs ago
go upvote answers like that one
 
@enderland Yeah, I'm starting to realize ;/
 
@MathiasMüller Because there are now 300 deleted comments below that question, comments are not a good format for extended discussion, and this room and the other meta post were specifically created for people to talk about the existing of post rather than its content
 
2:54 PM
@MathiasMüller no, I mean, free speech doesn't mean you can go onto someone else's <whatever> and say whatever you want
 
It's not "censorship", though obviously it's being perceived that way.
 
@Tunaki as it has on the high-upvoted and viewed posts that were deleted by some activist chat room ...
 
The only thing that baffles me is why they don't lock comment thread instead of purging it every 10 seconds or so.
 
@TomášZato Can you lock comments without locking the question?
 
@TomášZato you can't lock only comments, locking the post also stops answers
 
2:55 PM
@meagar yeah, you can't move comments again to chat, right?
 
@meagar: Even constructive comments get removed...
 
Strange, I'd except them to have that feature implemented
 
@rene even if he did, the chat would get ... messy
 
@meagar But you (or maybe Shog, or anyone else) are removing comments that raise valid points, that's why I find it curious.
 
Messier than it is now?
 
2:56 PM
@rene you could, but it's a nightmare and each has to be moved individually
 
You could write a script for that
 
call up extra mods ;) or that ^
 
Actually I think he wrote a script to delete comments now.
 
@TomášZato soft lock
 
surely there's a "delete all comments after X" userscript for mods
 
2:57 PM
@MathiasMüller those comments can be made in the question that was made for it. Then again, it only serves to demonstrate that mashing this whole thing into MSO is less than ideal. I wouldn't blame moderators here though.
 
@JanDvorak Reason they're not locking it is they want it to still get votes and answers, but no comments. They also want it to stay on the FP.
 
@Tunaki The ommunity is always divided about everything. The question is only equally or not equally. There are lots of upvotes on the post by Joel.
 
user2654834
Well. I've posted my 'delete profile' form. Reasons being:

I believe that the CEO has used his position to put forward an unarguable proposition that makes me question my ability to contribute to a site that effectively (in a tiny part by my contributions) provides his company with revenue and validates his opinions.
 
And locked featured post doesn't stay?
 
I'm not a fan of mods insisting on keeping it open. Even casting binding votes repeatedly. Has this bit been explained yet?
 
user2654834
2:59 PM
and although I was only a tiny contributor, I never asked a question. Only provided answers
 
Well, my comment critiquing the comment-removal policy was also removed :-/
 
user2654834
(until today)
 
@Trilarion Upvotes have no binding with regard to whether a question is appropriate or not
 
11 hours ago, by Shog9
If I wake up and find y'all arguing in comments again or getting into edit wars, I'll either lock the post or suspend whoever is involved. Not joking. Write answers.
Be careful
 
@Carpetsmoker I've seen it, and now I really thing they are overdoing this
 
2:59 PM
@KimberleyBarrass You didn't gave that many answers on the site. Nothing good or bad about it. Just pointing it out.
 
@Bart Yes, I agree - it's not the mods' fault perhaps and no single person should be blamed, least of all the one and only mod that actually exposes themselves and talks to people.
 
user2654834
it's why I said tiny
 

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