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9:00 PM
also I would hope that fpm would throw up if you tried to start a new thread in userland
what am I saying, fpm will throw up if you look at it funny
 
@JitendraPathak What did you do to install the pthreads extension?
@DaveRandom joe removed the ability to run pthreads through fpm, because it was a silly thing to do.
 
@bwoebi I thought of a valuable project you could use Aerys/Websockets for.
@bwoebi Rock'em Sock'em Sockets. Basically a web version of Rock'em Sock'em Robots.
 
wait, that's a debug build of PHP @JitendraPathak, did you build it yourself?
 
yes
@Danack first create these directories
 
OK... why?
 
9:05 PM
mkdir -p /etc/php7
mkdir -p /etc/php7/cli
mkdir -p /etc/php7/etc
then downloaded php src
git clone github.com/php/php-src.git --depth=1
then downloaded php thread
cd php-src/ext

git clone https://github.com/krakjoe/pthreads -b master pthreads
then
cd ..
Build the php-src
 
@Fabor uh… when searching for that I just get videos of some plastic version of that… how do you want to make that as a game?
 
I'll leave the magic up to you. I just like the name.
 
International
 
@danack i did manually
 
9:08 PM
@JitendraPathak If you build it statically, no need for extension=pthreads.so in the php.ini; it's always available then.
@Fabor up to me? lol
 
Was more of a joke :P
 
@bwoebi
 
@Fabor Must have missed it then
 
not working but
 
srsly, can't you just apt-get a zts PHP 7 build and pthreads?
I can get it via yum on CentOS 6 ffs, there must be something for apt-get somewhere?
 
9:09 PM
@DaveRandom i didn't get any ZTS safety package for php7
 
huh
/me googles
 
for ubuntu so i followed configuration
from stack overflow
answer
@Danack anything that i can tell you more ?
 
you don't seem to have built pthreads, and as @bwoebi suggested it's probably easiest if you just rebuild PHP with it as a static extension
 
@DaveRandom got a mail?
 
@DaveRandom I did not quite suggest that
 
9:13 PM
not yet, where did you send it? @php.net takes a while to relay through for some reason
 
Or just install php through apt-get.....I'm pretty sure that ubuntu would have pthreads available also.
 
It actually does not seem to
 
I mean, what is your email?
 
@bwoebi inferred
whatever :-P
 
hah :-P
 
9:14 PM
Nope ubuntu not have pthread ZTS safety enabled php7 package
 
I would suggest it's the easiest thing to explain to someone else
esp since he should probably rebuild without --enable-debug
@FlorianMargaine anything@myscreenname.com or myscreenname@php.net or myscreenname@room11.org (speaking of the last one, do you want one of those?)
 
@bwoebi So I have this so far. But the chats are on the same place. :( where do I make them seperate?
 
Wes
has anyone ever tried peperoncino coffee? making smoke signals with my ears
 
anything that i can check like symbolic
 
@DaveRandom I would've thought your php.net would use your real name
and sure, a room11.org would be fun, if it can be just a forward
 
9:17 PM
@Fabor what do you mean with "same place"?
 
@JitendraPathak go to your php-src directory, do make clean && git clean -f && ./buildconf
(need to rebuild php)
Then you just need to alter your ./configure line slightly
 
on the URI /room/poop1 /room/poop2 if I talk in to the rooms they show up on both
 
zend_extension=opcache.so
 
@DaveRandom won't git clean -f also remove pthreads?
 
it's working
 
9:18 PM
oh crap yeh
I never build external extensions statically
 
@DaveRandom make clean is enough for all purposes anyway
@DaveRandom I usually do
 
I rarely build PHP any more, I just let Remi do it for me :-P
and when developing I'm usually doing windows stuff because I'm a sadist
 
is there a "reproducible builds" movement in the centos world?
 
and I haven't done any of that for a while now :-(
 
@DaveRandom That's an interesting way to dev … code it, push it, test it 4 weeks later after the release :3
 
9:20 PM
@FlorianMargaine yeh, just drop me a mail to any of them with the name you want @room11.org and the target address
 
anyone who is interested to review stackoverflow answer which is i followed ?
 
lol @ syn@ @FlorianMargaine :-P
 
@DaveRandom syn? syn-ack!
 
They're just not independent of each other @bwoebi. If I type to one URI it appears in the other and visa versa.
 
4 mins ago, by DaveRandom
Then you just need to alter your ./configure line slightly
 
9:22 PM
what alter need ?
 
can you pastebin the output of ./configure --help run from your PHP git root?
 
@Fabor huh?
 
You should remove --enable-debug, and you need to add something to tell PHP to build the pthreads extension, which it so far has not done
 
@DaveRandom --enable-pthreads
 
wasn't sure if it was a --with-
5 mins ago, by DaveRandom
and when developing I'm usually doing windows stuff because I'm a sadist
 
9:25 PM
@DaveRandom with is reserved for exts which have an optional =DIR
 
@bwoebi I load up two tabs in my browser: chat.dev:1337/room/poop and chat.dev:1337/room/poop2. If I send a message in either of them it appears on both. I want it to only appear in the one you type it to.
 
@bwoebi Yeh I wasn't sure if it needed one of those ^^
 
@Fabor well, then you need to distinguish the id in the Endpoint::onHandshake method
 
@bwoebi Okie doke cheers
 
@DaveRandom ^^
it's my way to do a ping
some pick it up
 
9:28 PM
@bwoebi - twice you have said "Content is too specific to be of use to multiple readers." when rejecting my edits. Yet my edits seemed no more specialized than the rest of the page. Anyway, many things in any language are for niche issues.
 
so yeh you want this @JitendraPathak:
./configure --prefix=/etc/php7 --with-bz2 --with-zlib --enable-zip '--disable-cgi' '--enable-soap' '--enable-intl' '--with-mcrypt' '--with-openssl' '--with-readline' '--with-curl' '--enable-ftp' '--enable-mysqlnd' '--with-mysqli=mysqlnd' '--with-pdo-mysql=mysqlnd' '--enable-sockets' '--enable-pcntl' '--with-pspell' '--with-enchant' '--with-gettext' '--with-gd' '--enable-exif' '--with-jpeg-dir' '--with-png-dir' '--with-freetype-dir' '--with-xsl' '--enable-bcmath' '--enable-mbstring' '--enable-calendar' '--enable-simplexml' '--enable-json' '--enable-hash'
 
@RickJames could you please link me to the specific reviews?
 
I'd question whether you need some of those exts as well
 
I have a habit of Accepting a page if it is "mostly" ok, then promptly go in and fix things. The feels easier in the long run. Was my text so bad that it had no redeeming qualities?
Links coming...
 
9:30 PM
@bwoebi
2
Q: how to install php7 (zts) + pthreads on Ubuntu 14.04

amachree tamunoemiI need an assistance for a full installation of PHP7 (ZTS) + Pthreads. I have tried the following installation but couldn't get it working. sudo -i apt-get update apt-get install -y git bison autoconf build-essential pkg-config gitcore libltdl-dev libbz2-dev libxml2-dev libxslt1-dev libssl-dev...

i will remove php and rebuild again i can share out of each step i will do now
 
ah --enable-pthreads=shared… not sure … replace it by just --enable-pthreads
 
@JitendraPathak start from the CONFIGURE_STRING= step, change it to the options I gave above
 
I spend far too much time telling PHP users how to use UTF8 in MySQL: stackoverflow.com/documentation/proposed/changes/… That is, it is not of limited importance.
 
there's no need to actually remove it, it will just be overwritten
 
9:35 PM
@RickJames a) backticks should work under Windows, b) @$_REQUEST['name']; is really, really bad practice, c) not sure how "a" => "AA" in the strings example helps
 
D:\temp>php -v
PHP 7.0.2 (cli) (built: Jan  6 2016 13:00:05) ( ZTS )
Copyright (c) 1997-2015 The PHP Group
Zend Engine v3.0.0, Copyright (c) 1998-2015 Zend Technologies

D:\temp>php -r "$foo = `dir`; echo $foo;"
 Volume in drive D is Local Data
 Volume Serial Number is A22A-FB60

 Directory of D:\temp

20/08/2016  22:36    <DIR>          .
20/08/2016  22:36    <DIR>          ..
               0 File(s)              0 bytes
               2 Dir(s)  204,030,885,888 bytes free
backticks definitely work under Windows :-)
 
@RickJames I did not reject that one. I just said that a title like "Setting character encoding in mysql" would be more generally applicable; Also do not recomment utf8, only utf8mb4 IMO.
 
^ +1
The problem is not the information that's trying to be conveyed, and I would also agree that specifically mentioning UTF-8 somewhere on the page might be worthwhile because it's the most common use case
 
@RickJames And as PEMapModder noted, the function is either mysqli_set_charset or mysqli::set_charset, but not mysqli::mysqli_set_charset
 
:-P
 
9:39 PM
--enable-debug why removing this ?
 
@DaveRandom I totally don't disagree on UTF-8 being mentioned in that example; it just should be more generally applicable too.
@JitendraPathak well, about half as fast else ;-)
 
that ^
it's only useful when developing PHP i.e. the code you are writing is in C and you are modifying PHP
 
ok so make and make install will not need this ?
 
@DaveRandom and for debugging. It's annoying to have to follow assembly with the debugger and code side-by-side
 
You are figuratively the worst pedant I have ever encountered. Possibly also literally.
 
9:42 PM
@RickJames how is $_REQUEST relevant to the null coalescing operator? how is interpolation relevant to the two string operators? your additions are at best tangential to the other particular examples and don't actually deal with the topics
 
@RickJames For this one though I apologize on choosing the bad rejection reason; I should have enumerated this there.
 
Right, this room is being way too constructive for me, I'm going to post anonymous hate speech on reddit.
5
 
Make it about @PeeHaa please
 
@DaveRandom nah, I just love teasing you :-P
 
@bwoebi - stackoverflow.com/documentation/proposed/changes/… - This now has 4 separable comments/additions. I doubt if the reject reasons apply equally to all 4. Now, how do I get some accepted (if practical) while improving the others?
@PaulCrovella - I guess I was acting on the $_GET and $_POST code more than the context.
 
9:50 PM
@bwoebi How do I distinguish the ID in the endpoint during handshake?
 
Interpolation is a direct replacement for concatenation -- for that reason, I feel they need to be spelled out together. (Whether it is in functions or not, that is another question.)
 
...,actually forget the docs.
 
@RickJames the topic isn't generically about string concatenation, it's about those two operators.. interpolation has no more business being there than sprintf would
 
@RickJames This is btw. a feature request we've already asked for multiple times… being able to accepts edits partially. … Anyway, there are a few reasons: a) mysqli_result doesn't come from execute() - it returns a boolean. mysqli::query(), mysqli::store_result(), mysqli::use_result(), mysqli_stmt::result_metadata(), mysqli_stmt::get_results() all return a mysqli_result, b) why did you change SELECT => UPDATE? Also comment is then wrong as it says "fetch results here"
 
9:56 PM
Concat, sprintf, and interpolation need to be moved to a new Topic; something like "How to put strings together"?
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier you might enjoy link above
 
is this right ?
./configure --prefix='/etc/php7' --with-libdir='/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu' \
--enable-pthreads=shared --with-php-config='/etc/php7/bin/php-config'
 
Yeah, I should have double checked my mysqli usage. I wrote in mysql once, a decade ago. I found it too tedious, so I wrote a wrapper; that is the only thing I have used since then. I jumped in because there seemed to be some missing info. Maybe I should "Flag" the thing rather than trying to fix it.
 
i will send output of this
 
c) the error change is not bad, but the point is not 2 ways to throw errors, but rather "how to fetch and error out". I'd been happier about mysqli_report(MYSQLI_REPORT_ERROR | MYSQLI_REPORT_STRICT); instead, d) the link in insert_id is broken and $id = is not exactly more helpful?, e) your UTF-8 change is still there. @RickJames
 
10:01 PM
@DaveRandom you probably cant
 
So, it is better to make one change to a Topic, wait for Approval. Then post another change? This sucks. When I am thinking about a Topic, I often come up with multiple edits/examples.
 
I was TBH a bit annoyed that you just ignored the comments about UTF-8 section for the third time so that I just rejected it without listing all the reasons.
 
@DaveRandom well ... you can try, but someone, who has checked his own privilege way too much, will either remove of flag your shit
 
@RickJames The only thing probably fine is usage overview, and it should still probably include a prepare() example rather than query().
 
--enable-pthreads=shared is this right without single quotes ?
ok
 
10:04 PM
shared is implied
 
@Sherif no, only when building with phpize
oh
 
@bwoebi Wha?
 
@JitendraPathak nevermind, was fine
 
@bwoebi - d) "$conn->insert_id;" implies a subroutine with no return value. "$id=$conn->insert_id;" implies a function. I still believe in the latter.
 
10:06 PM
@RickJames If it were just that I'd have probably asked in a comment for why instead of rejecting.
@RickJames Just saying there were so many things wrong with your proposals that I rejected them.
 
Installing shared extensions: /etc/php7/lib/php/extensions/debug-zts-20160303/
 
My suggestion of an "mysqli overview" Example -- Are you disagreeing with the Example, or just complaining about errors in it? If you like the idea, please accept and fix. (Now, I have lost the text -- is there some way to see the history??)
 
I do not enjoy rejecting someones hard work, but if it's largely wrong, only tangentially related and promoting bad practices, it's pretty much the only choice. There's currently no way yet to partially accept changes, so there's that.
If there were just one minor mistake in a large edit, no question, I'd immediately approve and edit it out…
 
out after make and make install Installing shared extensions: /etc/php7/lib/php/extensions/debug-zts-20160303/
it means pthreads installed
 
@RickJames just click on the blue "improve draft" button to get the text again
 
10:10 PM
Speaking of "bad practices" -- You mentioned that a couple of times, do you recall what it was in reference to? I did not think I was promoting any bad practices.
 
> I'd been happier about mysqli_report(MYSQLI_REPORT_ERROR | MYSQLI_REPORT_STRICT);
> @$_REQUEST['name']; is really, really bad practice,
 
@bwoebi Is it though?
Or is it just often misused?
 
Hmmm... I don't see report on php.net/manual/en/class.mysqli.php
 
There's a difference between bad practice and people abusing things for the wrong reasons.
 
Please explain (to me at least) why $_REQUEST is bad.
 
10:12 PM
@RickJames $_REQUEST isn't, using it with @ is.
 
Ahh, you're talking about the shutup operator :)
Nevermind then.
 
@Sherif to be pedantic, it's called silencing operator
 
@bwoebi Actually, to be even more pedantic, it's called error operator.
 
@Sherif oh?
 
> PHP supports one error control operator: the at sign (@). When prepended to an expression in PHP, any error messages that might be generated by that expression will be ignored.
 
10:14 PM
@Sherif Yes, @ is an error control operator, called the silencing operator.
 
It's only by notoriety that it's become known as the "shutup operator"
@bwoebi Not sure where you got that reference from. There's nowhere in the documentation where we reference it as the "silencing operator".
 
ln: failed to create symbolic link ‘/usr/bin/php’: File exists
 
Nor is that parlance familiar to anyone in PHP internals that I've heard.
 
@Sherif source code, the only source of truth, obviously.
 
do i need to delete old file ?
ln: failed to create symbolic link ‘/usr/bin/php’: File exists
 
10:16 PM
@bwoebi What? Where in the source code do you see silence operator?
 
So you are complaining about '@', not about '$_REQUEST'? (That was unclear in the rejection.)
I use it essentially only for optional arguments: @$_GET, etc.
 
I don't even see the word silence anywhere in zend_operators.c
 
@Sherif ZEND_AST_SILENCE, zend_compile_silence(), ZEND_BEGIN_SILENCE, ZEND_END_SILENCE, ZEND_LIVE_SILENCE
 
Oh it's in the AST.
Yea, well that's new.
 
@Sherif and in VM
 
10:17 PM
The operator existed before there was an AST
 
@bwoebi Has it? I could be wrong.
 
@Sherif yes
 
@bwoebi I stand corrected then.
 
System start/stop links for /etc/init.d/php7-fpm already exist.
 
10:22 PM
And yet the documentation has never referred to it as the silence operator. Maybe it's about time we fixed that.
 
@Sherif You got it.
 
Then again, the documentation mentioned T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM and I thought we agreed not to leak internal naming but...
what do I know
 
output of update-rc.d php7-fpm defaults this : System start/stop links for /etc/init.d/php7-fpm already exist.
 
Those were the days when you asked 3 different internals developers a question and got 6 different answers.
 
@Sherif but… ??!??!? It's one of the greatest names ever!
 
10:24 PM
If my document root is for example "/public" and there's an index.php in public, and I use php -S localhost:8000 inside public, should navigating to "localhost:8000/blah/blah" complain that the page can't be found?
 
@bwoebi I don't think anyone even agreed to that name. Someone just committed it one day. Or at least I recall a lot of turmoil after the commit.
 
@Sherif tehehehe
 
@bwoebi output of update-rc.d php7-fpm defaults this : System start/stop links for /etc/init.d/php7-fpm already exist.
is this need deleting and recreating links ?
 
@JitendraPathak I believe you can safely ignore it.
 
ok thanks
 
10:35 PM
-1
A: Array method for this code

LaserYou can achieve the same thing with array_walk using references. Like so: array_walk($items, function(&$value, &$key){ $key = $this->normalizeKey($key); //some more assignments here }); You can get apply the same to foreach

I love that the accepted answer is the only one that doesn't work.
People are just ... awesome sometimes
 
@Sherif stop complaining and have your 10 rep (lol)
 
@bwoebi I don't care about the rep. I care about when someone finds this question 6 months down the road and sees "oh, this is the accepted answer. I'll use this."
 
@Sherif closing as a dupe to redirect the people to the better answer
 
@bwoebi Also, if it's not undefined, then why does the manual state as much? Should I be fixing this as a documentation bug? Last I checked the source concludes it is undefined.
 
@Sherif the docs source or php-src source you mean?
 
10:40 PM
> Only the values of the array may potentially be changed; its structure cannot be altered, i.e., the programmer cannot add, unset or reorder elements. If the callback does not respect this requirement, the behavior of this function is undefined, and unpredictable.
 
@Sherif undefined and unpredictable? bah, that's bullshit
 
By my interpretation of a PHP array, its key qualifies as a structure of the array.
@bwoebi Do elaborate then.
 
@Sherif the key is passed by-value without erroring. that's all.
 
Fair enough. But if you were to try modifying the array from inside the callback function itself would this still be considered well-defined behavior?
For example array_walk($arr, function($v, $k) use(&$arr) { /* do something with $arr here */ });
 
@Sherif no.
I was only talking about the key
 
10:44 PM
Alright, I guess that's what, whoever wrote that, actually meant then.
 
@Sherif yep, probably
 
@bwoebi @Danack @DaveRandom followed same process again ptherads is working now thanks :)
 
bleah, why is it everytime I fix a doc bug I feel like drinking myself to a stupor :/
 
:-D
 
@bwoebi Don't you grin at me when my technical faculties are at odds!
 
10:53 PM
lol
 
Wes
11:05 PM
I love when sites force the users to be well mannered to themselves. Thank u site, u are so kind. #webdev #webdesign https://t.co/M1h1T7vpGH
 
@Wes You're right. I should be able to say "No, fuck off!"
 
Wes
indeed
 
Their mistake was assuming I was a nice guy.
man SO search really sucks :/
They ought to do something about that.
 
SO search? AKA Google for me
 
@Fabor No, if I was interested in searching the entire web I would do that. I'm only interested in searching StackOverflow.
 
11:15 PM
for me... :P
A Porsche designed blackberry..., can't decided if I like the design or not.
 
People still use blackberry?
I remember when those were a thing. I had a lot more hair back then.
 
heh. I can't imagine it's a growing userbase. I liked them though
 
@Fabor Technology that falls that far behind modern trends, usually doesn't grow. At best it may plateau.
 
I'd love to have a hard keyboard again but in a side slider
 
@Sherif site:stackoverflow.com whatever
 
11:22 PM
@bwoebi That doesn't help me when what I'm trying to search for is a specific tag or question rating.
 
@Sherif in that case not… what exactly are you searching for?
 
Is it me you're looking for?
 
@bwoebi I was actually trying to gather some data on questions tagged php that contained phrases like "doesn't work" or "not working" that had a rating of less than 0, but nevermind. I got it through the query thingy.
 
@Sherif hah, I just wanted to propose you SEDE :-D
 
@bwoebi Yea, I figured it out after I saw how horrible search was.
Thanks.
 
11:25 PM
I can see it in your eyes!
 
@Sherif But for some reason it's not possible to search for score < x, only score >= x …
 
@bwoebi You can select DownVotes though.
 
@Sherif I meant in search, not SEDE
 
Ahh, right. That was my first dilemma.
You also can't do patterned search or multi-phrase search.
Basically anything beyond substring needle/haystack is seemingly impossible.
 
yep
@Sherif What did you want to know that for?
 
11:29 PM
@bwoebi Research
 
@Sherif E_UNCONCRETE
 
Are you really that interested? I'm trying to explore the correlations between bad questions and user expectations.
 
@Sherif No, I'm just pretending to annoy you -.- arghs … … … Why would I ask if I were uninterested?
 
For example, what does the average person expect some code to do that they immediately resort to formulating a question as "I did this ... but it doesn't work. HALP!"
 
LAWD Go programs are expensive
 
11:33 PM
@Sherif any findings yet?
 
@bwoebi Well, you never know. Some people like to ask for the sake of asking, but if you must know I'm building a database that can identify common misconceptions of what certain PHP code would do.
Think of it like a PHP mess detector, except it's not looking for structure, but rather patterns of code that are usually the result of bad user expectations.
 
@Sherif There are more interesting topics I could ask you about if it were just for the sake of it…
 
@bwoebi Yea, tons.
 
@Sherif i.e. helpful to find where docs are failing?
 
@Sherif search for utf_encode/decode .. people using them, particularly those asking questions on SO, are doing so blindly and incorrectly
 
11:37 PM
@bwoebi meh, not really, no. This is more like "if you had to write an automated bot to help beginners with common mistakes"
 
@Sherif Are you feeding a neural network with this?
 
@bwoebi Correct
But it's tricky, because you can't just use the training data as text. You have to be able to extract meaningful things from the code and use that.
So primarily I rely on the AST to ascertain what meaningful syntax I can and build the training data from that.
 
@Sherif AST? Are you doing natural language parsing? or of the codes posted?
 
No, no, the code.
I'm just using the questions to collect samples.
 
ah
 
11:42 PM
Cases where enough users thought well I expected this code would do this, but instead it turns out it does that.
 
I'd love to see some results from that…
 
Like for example, foreach($arr as $value) { $value += 1; } turns out to be a common one.
People new to PHP often think changing the value inside the loop will change it in the array.
Or even if ($something) { $thisShouldNotBeAvailableOutsideIf; }
 
@Sherif you mean they assume block scoping?
 
Yes
global variable scope is another one
 
there is an irritating number of answers telling people php is block scoped
 
11:45 PM
Most people new to PHP assume that $foo = 'bar'; function foo() { echo $foo; } should work or even global $foo; function foo() { echo $foo; }
 
@Sherif interesting, I'd expect block scoping assumptions to come rather from people having learnt other langs first than beginners starting with PHP
 
@bwoebi Well, I have no data to say if they're new to PHP or programming in general. Just enough data to know they aren't very familiar with PHP.
 
@Sherif that latter one doesn't surprise me too much … we have that weird notion of global vs superglobal instead of entry scope vs global
 
@bwoebi Yup
In all fairness, the manual doesn't actually explain it in a particularly intuitive way.
It would be easier to just tell people "variables must be explicitly imported into function scope in PHP"
 
@Sherif you have commit karma … hint hint
 
11:49 PM
@bwoebi I have commit karma to everything in PHP. That doesn't mean I'm terribly excited to fix every little thing.
 
@Sherif and regarding the first one, it's like you're writing JS…
 
Alright then. Don't call the kettle black Mr. pot!
:p
 
@Sherif uh… could you rephrase this less idiomatically please?
 
The phrase "The pot calling the kettle black" is an idiom used to claim that a person is guilty of the very thing of which they accuse another. == Interpretations and origins == As generally understood, the person accusing (the "pot") is understood to share some quality with the target of their accusation (the "kettle"). The pot is mocking the kettle for a little soot when the pot itself is thoroughly covered with it. An alternative interpretation, recognized by some, but not all, sources is that the pot is sooty (being placed on a fire), while the kettle is clean and shiny (being placed on coals...
 
@Sherif ah, thanks… learned something new :-)
 
11:54 PM
Wikipedia has single-handedly spared me at least a thousand years of explanations on the Internet in the last decade.
 
@Sherif as long as people are not too dumb to understand WP :-D
 
@bwoebi Well, personally, I'm not a big fan of overly obtuse language myself. I don't think it's that people are necessarily dumb. Lazy, maybe.
I guess you could argue that's a form of dumb. I don't know.
 
Wes
@Sherif would "buck passing" work as synonym of that?
 
@PaulCrovella the interesting articles are all stubs though
 
11:57 PM
@Wes Not really, no.
 
@Wes no, passing the buck is shifting responsibility/blame to someone else
 
Wes
got it
 
@bwoebi yeah, it's a noble effort but still needs a lot of work
 
@PaulCrovella yep
 

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