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12:00 PM
actually i have a system where i am giving some free facility to visiting user, but people are creating ids with differennt different id, and using the entire system freely. How can i stop it
to only new user
i want to give some facility for free
please help to resolve it
 
Don't stop them
 
@MattPrelude No. And? Cultures are flexible. It's not a problem for cultures to mix…
 
but they are using the system files for free
 
@bwoebi It's a problem when cultures don't mix but rather separate.
 
@MattPrelude Also I don't want to get all these perilous substances allowed in that other country. I want my paper being usable in my printer, as normed by DIN. … Basically, I want to have everything properly interoperable, in a free market.
 
12:02 PM
So, think the situation. And suggest me solution
 
@MattPrelude Sure, it is. Then solve that problem.
 
@Pankaj then don't offer them stuff for free
 
@MattPrelude You still will have immigration … especially highly qualified immigration. Brexit won't change much.
 
but for advertising purpose we are doing like. So with the help of it we could promote this
 
All too often in the UK, the tendency has been for people to mass move into the country and not integrate. That's not a solvable problem without basic controls.
I want high qualified immigration, I work in fintech. My industry wouldn't work without skilled migrants.
 
12:03 PM
@Pankaj it's impossible to do that
 
@littlepootis
 
@MattPrelude wrong. the problem is not lack of control but lack of integration effort.
 
ok thank you so much @li
@littlepootis
 
@Gordon The problem exists, one solution is controls which say you need to speak the language, need to have a job to come to, and we can control numbers.
 
@Gordon It's a fine line. You can't just ask for more, more and more integration. That's what our top EU politicians propose… (and running against walls) You need a certain degree of control in order to ensure proper integration…
@MattPrelude numbers isn't the problem, the problem is more the requirements…
 
12:06 PM
@bwoebi integration is a two way effort. also assimilation is different from integration. all too often people asking for integration expect people to give up their culture completely.
@MattPrelude you can teach people english. its not that hard.
 
Anonymous
Conversation is too serious
 
Anonymous
!!dad
 
Why don't skeletons ever go trick or treating? Because they have no body to go with
 
Anonymous
HAH
 
@Gordon The EU doesn't even allow us to require people to speak it. Freedom of movement has become a religion.
@bwoebi The EU does not allow requirements because freedom of movement is absolute.
 
12:08 PM
But TBH @MattPrelude you're just not used to it. We are. A third to half of population are foreigners here. We do the integration and it works fine. Integration doesn't happen from today to tomorrow. Give people one generation, then it's much better already
 
Talking about Laravel and Eloquent ORM, is there a way I can set the columns I want to retrieve when I do things like App\UserModel::find(1);? I'm not talking about transformers, I just don't want to query for data I don't need, also, passing the list of colums on each command doesn't seems to be a good practice :D
 
Numbers do matter when you have to build houses and infrastructure and can't predict what population will be.
 
@MattPrelude freedom of movement shall be absolute. But you can enforce that in other ways … like less government benefits … motivate people to integrate.
 
@MattPrelude your population has been pretty stable over the last years. stop panicking pls.
 
@MattPrelude It's not like you get massive spikes from one year to the next…
 
12:13 PM
@Gordon +300k/year is not 'pretty stable'
 
that's not even 1%…
 
We don't want even 1%
For decades net migration was about 30k/year-50k/year
And had no impact on social housing, welfare or the health system because they were only for citizens.
 
We have a net immigration of 2% per year. And it's fine.
 
@bwoebi your total population is 300k
I don't take any side, but please make accurate comparisons
 
@FlorianMargaine 576k this year
 
12:15 PM
@bwoebi same thing
 
@MattPrelude who is "we". you cannot speak on behalf of all the UK. I know people in the UK who dont freak out and are fine with it.
 
@FlorianMargaine same, but just the double :-D
 
@bwoebi same order of magnitude :)
 
@MattPrelude And you'd rather shit on the people that want to leave this rubbish country - now it's going to be a nightmare for me to get out because of all the extra bureaucracy and red tape
 
@MattPrelude It happens that people do not speak the local language for the rest of their life. Yeah. But the following generation typically speaks Luxembourgish, as they also go to local schools etc. First years are bit harder for them, but works out fine typically. They often end up in a lower social class, but their children then are pretty much equal to us natives
@FlorianMargaine bah, amateurs using the log_10 scale instead of log_2…
 
12:19 PM
@Gordon I speak on behalf of the majority clearly. Or we wouldn't have won.
 
> majority
 
@FlorianMargaine but anyway, 576k people of which 269k are foreigners … (46.7%) … in 1981 it only was 26.3% foreigners… now please don't say this couldn't scale up. Sure it can …
 
@MattPrelude no, not clear at all. the motivation to vote for leave was not solely based on immigration. it was also based on a number of other irrational arguments.
 
A majority is not 52%. Two thirds for an open source language change. Half for a stupid decision made mostly by people who'll be dead within 15 years that'll affect those still alive for their lifetime?
 
@bwoebi Where are said foreigners coming from?
 
12:21 PM
We can now set up a migration system that attracts skilled people who pay their own way, who speak the language and who contribute to our society. Like we had for the decades before we joined the EU.
 
> Like we had for the decades before we joined the EU.
can you back that up?
 
@Jimbo By definition, 52% is a majority.
 
By definition, only.
 
@Gordon Migration figures before we joined?
 
12:22 PM
@bwoebi Which gibberish link is going to tell me that?
 
If we're going with that - then the vote has no legal standing.
 
I only see age/gender
 
@MattPrelude The question is how many now do regret their vote after certain political people said their promises were utopian…
 
@PeeHaa depending on how much you've had to drink, sometimes not even that
 
@PeeHaa I've updated the link, accidentally copied the wrong one
 
12:24 PM
Edited because children :P
 
mostly french, heh
 
So yeah "foreigners" @bwoebi
 
@PeeHaa aren't they covered by "age"?
 
@bwoebi 6% of leavers and 4% of remainers, when polled, regret their votes.
 
12:24 PM
@MattPrelude do you have them?
 
lol
 
That has stats back to 1975, EU as we knew it began with Maastricht in 1992.
 
@FlorianMargaine mostly from Portugal… not quite French?
 
Hi
Koi he
 
Not quite nope. European though
 
12:26 PM
I have seen stats back to the 50s but can't find them right now on mobile, it was 30,000-40,000 every year for decades until the mid 1990s and then of course skyrocketed after the Eastern bloc joined the EU.
 
@PeeHaa yeah, sure.
 
Anonymous
He says, with a Wikipedia link :P
 
@ShubhankGupta english
 
@Gordon The source is ONS (the Office for National Statistics). If that's not neutral enough I give up lol.
 
12:27 PM
@MattPrelude ONS is ok, but ONS is not MW
 
@Gordon MW use ONS figures.
They just have a graph instead of 50 PDFs.
 
how to get image into laravel from android application
 
@MattPrelude yeah, I'm observing the same in Luxembourg… but it never has been an issue … perhaps because we're already used to being quite multicultural…?
 
@ShubhankGupta throw monitor out window
 
@MattPrelude but the base assumption of MW is that britain is overpopulated. that is not a neutral take on the topic.
 
12:30 PM
@bwoebi I dont know, tbh. The biggest issue for me with migration is stress on services and wage suppression for the working classes because frankly I think culture with Europeans is mostly a non-issue (until Turkey joins).
I voted out based primarily on sovereignty concerns.
 
@MattPrelude ironically we have the highest minimum wage while having the largest amount of immigration (in relative numbers)
 
I campaigned for Leave.EU though and a lot of people were concerned about immigration, in terms of numbers and in terms of access to services (particularly affordable housing).
 
Anonymous
Again the comparison is just silly.. 500k to 60mil ..
 
Well I'm against a minimum wage on principle.
 
@MattPrelude People who work at McDonalds work 10 times harder and longer than me
 
12:33 PM
On what principle?
 
People who work at McDonalds make above minimum wage.
 
Barely
 
@Jimbo poor comparison. also true of the average cat.
:-P
 
lol
 
Barely is irrelevant. The minimum wage does not provide a price floor for McDonalds workers.
 
12:35 PM
@MattPrelude that is a principle?!
there shall be no minimum wage because workers at mcd make above?
 
The minimum wage is a patch on a broken system. If it weren't for the massive influx of low skilled labour, it would not be necessary.
 
rofl
 
Germany doesn't have one, I should note.
 
of course we do
 
@MattPrelude um.. no?
 
12:36 PM
Neither does Switzerland, the most high paid nation in Europe.
 
@MattPrelude Affordable housing is mostly an issue if you live in the cities or close suburbs… But in general minimum wage here is ~2k€ and cheap rents not close to the cities are about 700€ … That's not much money left. But it's largely enough for people to survive…
 
switzerland has a living wage
 
Anyone used to MySQL?
 
What is the federal minimum wage in Germany?
 
1,473.00 EUR per month
 
12:37 PM
Source?
 
@JamesSnowy No
 
Switzerland doesn't have a minimum wage law, they had a vote on introducing one and it failed.
 
!!? mindestlohn deutschland
 
Search for "mindestlohn deutschland" (https://www.google.com/search?q=mindestlohn+deutschland&lr=lang_en)
• Mindestlohn in Deutschland: Nahles denkt an Erhöh… - 15. Sept. 2015 … Der Mindestlohn wirkt, sagt Arbeitsministerin Andrea Nahles. Vor allem Beschäftig… (http://www.taz.de/!5227197/)
• Der Mindestlohn wirkt - Zahl des Monats - Der deutsche Mindestlohn von 8,50 Euro entspricht 51 Prozent des mittleren … Im Europäischen Vergl… (http://www.der-mindestlohn-wirkt.de/ml/DE/Alle-Fakten/Zahl-des-Monats/zahl-des-monats.html)
 
bfy.tw/6XvD (Jan 15, Eurostat)
 
12:38 PM
@Jimbo Yeah right on a friday ^
 
@MattPrelude they had a vote on unrestrained basic income AFAIK
 
and yes, the minimum wage made my haircuts more expensive, but I am fine with that because I earn good money and my hairdresser doesnt
 
and his hair doesn't grow any more :D
 
Didn't realize Germany introduced one a year ago :) my bad.
 
Do what I do, stop getting haircuts
 
12:39 PM
They didn't have one until then. The sky didn't fall in.
(Perhaps unlimited migration is a problem in Germany too)
 
That's like saying the sky didn't fall in when we had slaves
 
@MattPrelude You realise the insanity of that argument? That there are likely to be reasons for them introducing one, like stopping an impending collapse of the aforementioned sky?
 
In a literal sense, true, but slavery was of course unconscionable and paying someone 1400eur/mo is not.
@DaveRandom As I said, perhaps wage suppression is an issue in Germany too, but no one in 2014 would have said Germany was a Dickensian dystopia.
 
@MattPrelude As far as I know, an important factor why minimum wages were introduced actually was the immigration to ensure they're not abused as cheap workforce.
 
@bwoebi Thanks for making my point.
 
12:42 PM
The problem isn't the local people getting paid worse, just the immigrants getting barely paid.
 
Before massive unskilled immigration they were not needed. If you hugely raise the pool of unskilled labour, that creates a downward pressure on the price of unskilled labour.
 
@MattPrelude paying someone 1400 is unconsciable when its not enough to sustain yourself from it
 
If that labour comes from ex-soviet countries where wages are still ~500eur/mo, then they will see even a minimum wage in a rich western nation as a great increase in standard of living.
 
@MattPrelude That wasn't the problem. The problem was that immigrants situation was abused (as in they have to either find work/integrate or be rejected)
 
@MattPrelude what?
 
12:44 PM
@MattPrelude what? … life's more expensive here anyway too…
 
The problem isn't a particular subset of the 99%, it's the 1%. The 1% are also rather good at manipulating the 99%, because it's somewhat easier to organise 1% of something than 99% of something. Divide and conquer.
 
Find work and integrate sounds perfectly acceptable to me :x
 
Which in turn presses local labour to reduce its rates to the minimum wage, which was my whole point. The minimum wage is a patch to put a bandaid on the fact that government has created huge downward pressure on incomes.
 
@Leigh right, but employers abused it by "either accept very low wage or have no work and be rejected"
 
right
 
12:46 PM
@bwoebi I have little belief that anyone was bothered about the huge influx of German, or French, or Luxembourg(ish?) labour. It's the ex-soviet bloc.
 
And their labour is worse because...?
 
because they are more foreign, obviously…
 
It's not 'worse', it is more numerous.
 
@Gordon Foreigner
 
...and that is bad because...?
 
12:48 PM
@MattPrelude so, you wouldn't complain if there were hundreds of thousands of French people immigrating per year, am I right?
 
@Jimbo Bastards, coming here, demanding to know what love is
3
 
Btw, do we count Finland as ex-soviet?
 
If it's not obvious that increasing supply of something (unskilled labour) by 200k will cause a downward pressure on pricing then perhaps we shouldn't be calling Leavers stupid.
 
gmfdi I have to do something to get that crappy fucking joke out of my head
 
@Jimbo I want to know what love is. I want you to tell me.
 
12:48 PM
@Leigh yes we do
 
@DaveRandom You're like a broken record :P
 
damn, @DaveRandom beat me to it
 
@MattPrelude I don't call leavers stupid, just their logic flawed (and they not realizing it)
 
Or old, and logic impaired
 
Both sides are blinkered, face it
 
12:49 PM
@bwoebi I would complain about hundreds of thousands of unskilled people (or skilled people willing to do unskilled jobs) whether they are from France, Germany, Poland or Botswana.
The fact is that there was no massive influx of unskilled Frenchmen or Germans because there was no significant increase in living standards between being unskilled in France/Germany and being unskilled in Britain.
 
Anonymous
Meanwhile, I can't seem to understand if multiculturalism is (in general) good/bad.
 
Multiculturalism is bad, all cultures integrating is good. In the UK we have both in different cities (or different areas of the same city in London's case).
 
@bwoebi when exactly was following the "advice" from a right populist/nationalist ever not stupid?
 
You know if I was playing civilisation I'd only turn my back on my allies because I was going to be a dick and planned on taking them over in the next turn
 
@Gordon When he's called Trump!!! (just kidding…)
 
12:52 PM
Didn't realize Michael Gove, Daniel Hannan and Gisela Stuart were "right wing populists" .
 
@MattPrelude anyway… Have you ever considered the solution of making the ex-Russian bloc richer instead?
 
@MattPrelude i am talking about farage and ukip obviously
 
> found that the greater the diversity in a community, the fewer people vote and the less they volunteer, the less they give to charity and work on community projects. In the most diverse communities, neighbors trust one another about half as much as they do in the most homogenous settings.
 
@bwoebi How do we do that by taking their skilled people to London and Berlin?
 
just as an example
 
12:54 PM
@MattPrelude Because that's the ultimate goal of European federalism…
 
@bwoebi Guess how many prominent Remainers made the case for Eurofederalism during the campaign.
 
@Leigh I am sure you can find a study proving the opposite
 
Maybe, it was linked on hacker news a few days ago, I didn't go searching for it
It's also fairly old now
 
@MattPrelude I guess none. Because it won't overturn people wanting to leave… [because of eurofederalism]
 
@MattPrelude also, I like how you did not put Johnson on the list, now that he basically bailed from everythinng
 
Anonymous
12:57 PM
@Leigh Yeah, I read that once in Wikipedia. I'm amazed that is the only argument against it though.
 
ey
30 min ETA
 
I wonder what'd happen if we'd suddenly mandate an EU wide minimum wage of at least 800€ (and partially funded by EU money if needed).
 
@Leigh precise opposite of my personal experience :-)
 
@Gordon Johnson was never a committed Eurosceptic. Everyone saw he only came across for his own career and it backfired.
 
@DaveRandom I lived in Leicester for 5ish years, it's kind of weird to be in a city in the UK where white british is a minority
 
12:59 PM
Johnson thought we would lose. He thought he could be the sceptic to cross the aisle and work with Remainers to unite the country.
 

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