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3:00 PM
s/a lot of/most/
(I also am one of the "most" btw)
 
Like the annotations RFC.
I am pretty certain that would not be good for PHP.
I might be wrong on that.
 
maybe it's just a sense of personal pride, but I contribute a little and I wouldn't dream of trying to get a vote until my contribution was significant - I guess that's what I'm getting at - significant contribution (maybe with a time constraint) should === the right to vote,
 
well quite, like I said not everything should be put to a vote in the first place ... these kinds of technical issues should not be in the hands of people with no clue, not because we take away their voting rights but because it never made sense to ask their opinion in the first place ... it doesn't make sense to ask for most people's opinion I don't think ...
 
@JoeWatkins I had fixed bugs :p
 
@Leigh Generally +1, but no idea what the objective measure of that would look like
 
3:02 PM
@JoeWatkins Slippery slope though
This RFC breaks BC...
 
@DaveRandom yep, nobody wants to have to audit each vote, the system as it is, however, is broken
 
on questions like 6vs7, moving things to and from pecl, choosing rm's, and things of this nature, we should ask everyone because it makes sense, on questions of technical correctness and specification it doesn't make sense to ask anyone who doesn't really really understand it ...
 
If the general PHP public had voted on what to use for the namespace separator I'm pretty sure the separator would've ended up as "wtf is a namespace"
 
@derp use T_NAMESPACE
For example: use namespace Symfony namespace Component namespace HttpFoundation namespace Request as Request;
Perfect!
 
I had a dream ... I had a dream that the body of individuals that chose to maintain the specification for php would be the people you appeal to in order to get new languages features voted in, it would then just be down to zend, hhvm, hippy or whatever to implement the specification without bitching and moaning ...
 
3:05 PM
@Leigh Aw... and Johannes Schlüter goes and explains it to him.
 
@JoeWatkins We'd still have internal moaning. And HHVM engineers complaining that XYZ would make the JIT slower...
 
@JoeWatkins It's not beyond the bounds of possibility. Although I concede it's pretty unlikely.
 
@LeviMorrison we probably all started replying at roughly the same time :P
 
yeah probably but they would have no actual choice in the matter, the task has changed from shall we have this, to lets do the best job of this we can ...
 
Now what if everyone had to explain their vote :P
 
3:06 PM
Also, whenever we talk about strict vs something else scalar types I am tempted to point out that strict has worked well so far for Hack :D
 
that's much more productive for everyone ... there would still be similar bike shedding around wherever the discussion takes place, but, you would need no patch for anything, you would only need a sound idea, well expressed ...
 
Do you use @date and why and why not?
 
Also that's not a 100% practical model @JoeWatkins - take the keywords-as-identifiers thing, everyone liked the idea, no-one liked the impl. It's all well and good specifying a feature, no good if it can't be implemented
 
strict with no cast or gtfo, that actually opens up a nice channel for optimisations, when you know a return type matches an input type, you can eliminate the double type check
 
doesn't matter, nobody continued to look for an impl after the vote has passed, if it were decided that it was going into the spec then there would be no backing out ...
 
3:07 PM
@webarto as in, suppress errors when using date() or a docblock tag?
@JoeWatkins Yeh but what if it turns out be un-implementable?
 
there is no such thing
 
I actually like that idea, you vote for inclusion in the spec
 
@Leigh I care more about the strict types for static analysis, both by tools and programmers.
 
(also iirc the keywords as identifiers impl was unofficially put on hold until ast, even if that was publicly stated, it could now be revisited)
 
@rdlowrey Dat composer program.
 
user895378
3:10 PM
yeah ...
 
@JoeWatkins Awesome! I'd like an extension that allows me to manipulate my bank balance please! Any time in the next week or two is fine.
:-P
(behind the facetious tone there is an actual point, btw)
 
@DaveRandom well you know what I mean, in the context of that which is reasonable - the kind of thing the team maintaining a spec would allow you to even be thinking about introducing into your implementation ...
 
yeh I know what you mean
The point is that I suspect there would be no way to do it without consulting the implementors about viability though, and then it just leaks back to what we have now
I could be wrong
I often am
 
well the team maintaining the spec are going to need a fair amount of knowledge in order to be useful to other people maintaining the spec ... that should get them by between them ...
 
user895378
> The code provided does not reproduce given a generic endpoint. I will need reproducing code. Please find a way to provide it, and open a new bug.
 
user895378
3:14 PM
^ @JoeWatkins you're still a saint for putting up with people who don't know what they're doing :)
 
user895378
People just don't get how difficult and time-consuming it is to troubleshoot a "problem" without a simple reproduce script.
 
and it would attract people I think ... you can be extremely knowledgeable about hhvm and zend without actually having good C/C++ fu, you can easily know enough to see the limits, and some people like to talk about code more than write it ...
 
@JoeWatkins There will inevitably be some cross-over people between to two layers of teams though, which means that some people will have a hidden agenda and it will be all cloak-and-dagger politics
Which sounds familiar...
 
@rdlowrey that sounds harsh when I read it back ... it's getting a bit old now, for people to type what they think their problem is and say "any ideas?" .. real old actually ...
 
user895378
Doesn't sound harsh. At a certain point people are just wasting your time. You can't allow that. Your time is valuable.
 
3:17 PM
I meant the whole thing not that bit in particular ...
 
@JoeWatkins "It's getting really old" == "I'm getting really old"
I have the same problem
 
I connected to another guys machine who said he definitely gave me reproducing code ... code was completely and utterly different ...
I said "this is different code"
"yeah, I know"
wtf
 
lol
 
pthreads has been fun for the last week or two ... many bugs squished ...
 
user895378
@JoeWatkins woah that's really nifty. Does that work the same way if I use ($resource) in the closure as if I were to new new Threaded($resource) and pass that to a worker?
 
3:23 PM
@DaveRandom github.com/krakjoe/pthreads/issues/332 I'm leaving this one for you ...
 
woot! finished booking hotels, cars and flights for UK trip next month
 
no lexical vars @rdlowrey
 
user895378
too bad, but still really cool.
 
can provide ctor though ...
 
finished booking flights for Argentina as well. Now just need to book hotels...
 
3:24 PM
(which can use lexical vars)
awesome @ircmaxell
 
user895378
I haven't been able to follow pthreads dev much the last month or so.
 
yeah, rented a car from Edinburgh to drive up to the highlands for the night, then spending the next night in center Edinburgh...
 
@JoeWatkins I can probably look at it over the weekend, kick me about it on Friday
 
@DaveRandom wicked, thnx, I think gone, just need confirmation ...
 
kk cool
 
ThW
Morning
 
for fuck sake
the new guy is using CodeIgniter's active record in his code
 
@DanLugg Yeh, screw the dutch
 
@DaveRandom The Dutch just need a greater WTF threshold ;-)
 
3:35 PM
/me goes out ... lata chaps ...
 
@DaveRandom 3v4l.org/EZme9
 
I just find it so fucking sad
 
@tereško What's wrong with Codeignitor active record?
@DaveRandom No, Sire, meant the docblock tag, fail on me.
 
@DanLugg lol
 
Is there any way in PHP to schedule a specific script to run at 1:00 PM every single day, no matter what?
 
3:39 PM
@webarto then no, didn't even know it existed. Tend to put it in parens in @version if do anything at all
 
@DaveRandom Better not talk about this too loudly; might up on the ML and get implemented.
 
@DaveRandom It actually doesn't exist but I'm seeing it, I kind of don't see much point when there's vcs.
 
@webarto you mean aside from the fact that it writes shit SQL ?
 
@webarto that too
 
@derp what?
 
3:43 PM
@DemCodeLines I'd misread your request and suggested cron.
 
@tereško Is he using it inside within "Codeigniter project" or he extracted ORM part and using it for new non Codeigniter project?
 
@derp The question is wrong.
 
@webarto what's wrong about it?
 
Yeah, I know.
 
3:48 PM
my average rep per post is 74... that's not bad
 
that's not bad
 
that's not bad
 
that's not bad
 
Try chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/1/sandbox just say !!stat username
 
@webarto no, the whole site is a "codeigniter project"
 
3:52 PM
in Sandbox, 12 secs ago, by DaveRandom
idiot
 
unfortunetally, up till now all the project were basically using codeigniter only for the routing
he is now making an effort to actually bind the code to codeigniter permanently
 
"asked 65 questions, gave 2 answers"
 
in Sandbox, 14 secs ago, by Caprica Six
@derp Caprica Six (http://stackoverflow.com/users/1839506/caprica-six) has 1116 reputation, earned 0 rep today, asked 0 questions, gave 4 answers, for a q:a ratio of H̸̡̪̯ͨ͊̽̅̾̎Ȩ̬̩̾͛ͪ̈́̀́͘ ̶̧̨̱̹̭̯ͧ̾ͬC̷̙̲̝͖ͭ̏ͥͮ͟Oͮ͏̮̪̝͍M̲̖͊̒ͪͩͬ̚̚͜Ȇ̴̟̟͙̞ͩ͌͝S̨̥̫͎̭ͯ̿̔̀ͅ.
avg. rep/post: 279. Badges: 0g 5s 9b
That bot is a fuck.
 
Ok, I emailed a hotel in Argentina... It's on a beach, but $550 per night USD... No...
 
Pfffrt.
Hostel it up.
 
3:57 PM
@ircmaxell Penthouse and what comes with it?
 
I don't think I could ever pay more than £70 for a single nights sleep. Even that's a stretch.
 
!!swag yields this ->
 
@ircmaxell Oh, that kind of hotel...
 
in Sandbox, 27 secs ago, by Caprica Six
user image
i have seen it all, wow
 
3:59 PM
@Fabien So what, you only ever holiday in travelodges?
 
Hostels. SO pretty much.
 
Push the boat out man, go for the Premier Inn.
 
@Fabien I don't think I would pay for a hotel at all :) You get similar at hostel or motel.
 
heh. Your couch > Premier Inn
 
posted on September 17, 2014 by kbironneau

/* by Arekibian */

 
4:08 PM
@Fabien yeah... no...
 
4:23 PM
I've stayed in some AMAZING hostels. Exhibit A
 
BTW if you find yourself in China Pingyao is worth a visit.
 
I don't know if that'll happen, but :-)
 
@NikiC I think I'm starting to get the hang of the AST, would I be correct thinking in order to give loops an else clause, they'll need to be converted to list types, and then check for children to calc the jumps?
 
I'd love to see some of the photos you'd take there.
 
4:29 PM
@Leigh no loop type, just add another child
"add another child" means move it to a different position in the ast type enum
 
user1607528
@DaveRandom turkmen language, you probably didnt heard about it before :)
 
China that is, not just Pingyao.
 
@Muhammet I've heard of Turkmenistan, but no
 
@NikiC Right, 2 child nodes -> 3 child nodes, and NULL the 3rd if the else isn't there, makes sense
 
@Fabien Communist countries are a no go.
 
4:32 PM
I have no idea, only really that it exists
 
@webarto as in they won't let you in or you simply won't visit.
Take enough money and things will pan out :)
 
I mean, for 'mericans :P
I would go, but it's far east. Haven't even traveled through Europe.
 
Europe is always there for short easy holidays. Far east for long-ass cheap wholesome fun.
Ugh I should stop looking at travel photos. Making me depressed.
 
Japan is #1 on my to-visit list
 
user1607528
I bet areyousmokingcrack.com gets pretty good traffic :)
 
4:37 PM
@ircmaxell And so it should be. Japan is my Ichi-ban destination :)
 
I will have to start maintaining my old posts, because I have been getting question on them and they really haven't aged well.
 
New Zealand is #2
1 message moved to bin
@tereško yeah, same here with a few of my earlier "big" posts
 
The NZ/Aus trip is on the list. Tick another continent off the list. Only Antarctica to go but it's hella expensive.
 
@ircmaxell huh? I remember people talking in here about startup ideas... :/
 
and I need to go re-read my old blog posts, to see what I need to revisit
talking ideas is fine, talking commercial classes may or may not be (depending on if it's spammy)
 
4:39 PM
it's free. but point taken
 
user1607528
listening to music while coding ? bad good ? music recommendations ?
 
dam...
The single room per day costs uss 480
It is full board
It includes: all meals with drinks
Visit to our penguin colony
Elephant seals and sea lions colonies
Pta norte lighthouse
And we will try to see orca from the coast
 
user1607528
@ircmaxell where
 
Argentina
 
I was sold at penguin ...
 
4:48 PM
I'm seeing them either way, just not sure if I should do the tour there, or not
 
a killer whale (or I imagine several) in the wild would be quite a sight too ... have a suspicion they might be actually evil ... but guess you can't get close so in no danger ...
 
ummm
they jump onto the beach to catch seals
 
Now that would be quite a sight.
 
where you are going ?
 
two places in Patagonia
 
4:52 PM
I wonder if I could write down the SO post updated in the company's time-sheet under "self improvement"
 
Bariloche, and Peninsula Valdes
@tereško I do that, or more specifically, did taht at my last job
 
yeah I think only a few pods have displayed that behaviour ... they all of them are equally evil but different pods hunt differently I believe ...
dunno if pods is the right word, think so ...
 
IMHO, "teaching others" is the best way to improve ones skills beyond the "advanced beginner" level
 
I'll have seen it probably ...
yeah, I watched every minute of film he is in since it was black and white ...
 
4:54 PM
^^ That's where I'm going :-D
 
scary shit ...
 
although that's also not going to be happening... Too early in the season for that
 
still, not somewhere I would go for a walk, or sea-life themed fancy dress party ...
 
yeah, not wearing my wet suit
 
hehe
 
4:59 PM
but I'm getting excited now just thinking about it :-)
 
Argentina is known for its steak.
 
yeah, should go ...
 
I will be sick of steak by the end of the trip :-D
 
Saying that I (perhaps shamefully) rate "Blazin' Steaks" quite highly.
 
@ircmaxell You should try some diving in antarctica: youtu.be/Zxa6P73Awcg
 
5:04 PM
I need help in magento static block creation
0
Q: Custom static blocks in magento 1.9.0.1 home page

devoI am converting an HTML template into Magento theme. Here I have to separate each blocks into custom static block files such as footermenu.phtml, tweet.phtml and copyright.phtml to call like, <?php echo $this->getChildHtml('footermenu'); ?> <?php echo $this->getChildHtml('tweet'); ?> <?php ech...

 
@ircmaxell unpossible
 
@DaveRandom why?
 
because... steak
 
I dunno, there's an all you can eat Brazilian BBQ across the street from me. I definitely struggled by hour 2.
 
Yeh I'm not advocating constant steak, but steak for every normally spaced and sized meal would be fine
 
5:09 PM
Constant steak is nice too though :P
 
I'm not proposing you try and eat a cow a day or anything
 
@DaveRandom No, it must be constant steak!
 
const STEAK = 1; while (STEAK);
 
Ugh, now I am hungry. Tesco time.
 
I wonder how long one could survive with a slow conveyor belt perpetually depositing small pieces of steak into one's mouth?
Like, at what point would you eventually die of "meat-toxicity" or stroke out or something.
 
5:12 PM
 
@Fabien Precisely.
 
@Fabien protein poisoning
 
5:27 PM
G'morning.
 
Hey Charles
 
yo!
 
So how hard would it be to add a warning when the limit set by max_input_vars is hit?
We just got bit by the default of 1000.
A thousand inputs apparently isn't enough for the huge order Atlassian just placed with us :D
(Pssst, use more bitbucket and hosted jira)
 
:-)
 
@Charles no, because it's triggered not by your own ineptitude, but by the client
 
5:33 PM
@NikiC So it wouldn't be feasible to queue up the error and actually do something with it later?
 
like how and like what?
 
@NikiC Yeah ... exactly. :(
It just seems like a thing that should be shown somewhere, or logged somewhere, or something.
 
check the discussions back when this was introduced
 
Two devs troubleshot that one for two days before I got enough sleep to actually have a brilliant flash of the obvious.
 
and just be happy that no htmlspecialchars-style warning got through (you know, one of those that is only thrown if you DONT display errors)
 
5:34 PM
Feh.
 
d'oh
Must be onion-ish
 
5:50 PM
Code snippet new function in formatting
 
6:06 PM
@ircmaxell lol, cmd was already in the run dialogue.
@ircmaxell gr8 b8 m8 i giv u 8/8 ;-)
 
@DanLugg yeah , real power users have "explorer.exe" there ... in case you manage to crash your desktop
 
@tereško I don't think you can hit run if explorer unloads.
I've re-ran explorer from "Save As..." dialogues :-P
 
I think it was the same dialog as the one you get from the task manager
(which you can get when explorer has gone tits-up)
 
Really? I forget now, haven't nuked explorer in awhile.
 
then you are not using your windows hard enough
=)
but , not to digress ... I think 98% of "it professionals" would see this video as believable/valid tutorial
that's the sad state of th industry
 
6:15 PM
Maybe because good devs are tied up fixing other peoples mistakes :P
 
I recall this video, where the guy legit bypassed the Windows 98 login by going through the [?] button, through to the help, to save/print or something, eventually executing explorer.exe.
 
aha
know that one
 
Yea, fun stuff :-)
rofl, there are so many 11 year old kids who post videos on "how to hack ur parentz windoze PC by enabling the guest account MUAHAHAHA"
 
I'm glad it was basically impossible for 11-year-old me to post videos of himself back then.
 
6:26 PM
Hello from 30,000 feet. Or something :-)
 
I'm terrified of the horrors my own kids are going to have permanently attached to the internet...
 
@Jimbo Where to again?
 
@Fabien LAX to Seattle right now, back to good old England in two days :-(
 
Make sure to get a Starbucks.
 
or, ya know, decent coffee.
 
6:31 PM
 
@Jimbo Wish I was still up there, we could do lunch or something. You're flying in for the first rain of the season...
 
@Charles LA was far too hot in the valley, 102F+ at some points. Would've been good, maybe next time :-)
Oh, I went to PHP Seattle and played PHP Jeopardy. That was pretty fun.
 
6:46 PM
You better have won
 
6:57 PM
Hi
 
@Fabien No, I was doing really well answering random method calls but then got cocky on one of the questions and lost almost everything. Still came third though, I got free cookies :-)
 
7:12 PM
Hi. Why can't I send an email from localhost?!
 
I really wish we could get rid of magic __get, __set and __call. They can be useful tools (namely __call) but I see them misused so much it pains me.
 
Agreed on that, I find __call() really useful, especially when decorating
But set and get are misused everywhere and make code really hard to understand
 
Seriously, having private members that are 100% modifiable and retrievable through __get and __set is not any better than public members!
3
 
Decorators though are useful
 
:18945496 Beautiful.
 
7:16 PM
@LeviMorrison even if they are modifyable and retrievable using getFoo()/setFoo(), same thing
 
@ircmaxell But getFoo() and setFoo() do have a small future compatibility improvement by being method calls, not property accesses.
(that is probably never used)
If you need to do custom logic on get or set at some point in the future you can.
That advantage would also go away with language level getters/setters.
 
yes, that's true
 
@user3002233 mail() sucks, stop using it. Go look up swiftmailer and use that and a known-good SMTP server instead.
@LeviMorrison Yeah, but then you're forcing the function call overhead on every external property access. That kind of stuff irritates the crap out of me. Once you stick a get/setFoo for one property, it becomes inconsistent to not have all of them done that way, and down that road lies verbose madness.
I wonder if the property accessors syntax RFC could be revised and revoted on for 7.
 
@Charles Please no.
If someone is feeling ambitious work on generics instead.
^^
Definitely at least wait for return and nullable types to be finished.
Those are helpful to a much larger audience, I feel.
 
7:34 PM
Generics as in typed collections?
 
Well, it's more than that but yeah, that thing.
 
@LeviMorrison I don't think we're allowed to even think about generics until return types and scalar types are in...
 
I dunno, that might be harder to pass than The Feature Kinda Formerly Known as Typehinting.
 
@NikiC Even scalar types?
 
@LeviMorrison without them, it's far less useful
actually, I'd venture to say property types as well...
 
7:37 PM
what @ircmaxell said
 
because the solution to that would likely be the same as for generators, so one would follow the other (typing hash table entries)
at least IMHO
 
We have parameter types without scalars and think that's great.
Why should we have to have scalars before generics?
 
have to? we don't have to. Just makes more usable...
 
Yeah but you made it sound like it'd be useless without them.
 
reverse: it's far more useful with them
:-D
 
7:39 PM
By the way, @NikiC, can I get a review on my return type implementation now?
Err, I don't mean like RIGHT NOW
I need to revisit what I've named a few things but aside from that I'm not sure what else I would change.
 
I second what @ircmaxell says, generics would be much less useful without scalar types
Unless you want a Dictionary<IntegerWrapper, StringWrapper>
 
@DaveRandom o.O I fall into many categories. :)
 
@salathe yup, One of which is "People at whom to throw fish"
speaking of which
/me throws a wet trout at @salathe
 
/me falls in to the water
 
@salathe Why'd you vote against Integer Semantics?
 
7:47 PM
@AndreaFaulds if I answer, will I get grilled?
 
@salathe It depends :p
 
This is a safe place. We can now kick anyone who makes mean statements :-D
 
That's mean.
 
@ircmaxell haha, or trout-slap me out of the room
 
/slap @salathe
 
7:48 PM
nah, that was in case you were hungry
 
@AndreaFaulds Nothing against the patch at all, I just think the idea itself is pointless and unnecessary... consistency for consistency's sake. I'm happy with, for example, (int)INF doing weird shit. :)
</reasons_for_voting_no>
 
@salathe It's wasn't actually just for consistency's sake. That was originally to prevent PHP crashing in the bigint patch.
However I am a fan of edge case consistency.
 
When designing, consistency should be the utmost goal. When refactoring, it's only one a long list of considerations. IMHO at least
 
@AndreaFaulds That's not what the RFC says.
 
Also, this means I have less changes to make for the bigints RFC...
@salathe I said originally. I also like it for consistency reasons.
 
7:52 PM
The LTS releases are for like... 6 months right? Wrong chat window.
 
:-D
 
I'm not saying I'm some weirdo who is fundamentally against consistency; just, IMO, this RFC makes stuff "consistently WTF". I'm fine with silly behaviour giving silly, and inconsistent, results.
And you're not fine with it. That's my take on things anyway. :)
Part of me quite likes that we can say the result of, for example, (int)NAN is "undefined".
Or, could say, if the vote passes. :)
 
I don't know if I'd go that far... Having undefined corners that can be hit in normal operation is... well...
 
(int)NAN is not at all unlikely
 
I wouldn't call it unlikely, but I wouldn't call it common either...
 
7:56 PM
Also, sure it's WTF, but WTFs should be reproducible, then you can work around them.
 
@salathe IMORFCWTF
 
@AndreaFaulds they are reproducible…
 
@salathe On one platform.
Also, whatever you feel about (int)NAN, >> 64 doing what you expect has to be a good thing, right?
 
@AndreaFaulds And no-one said it's unlikely…
 

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