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4:00 PM
@Ja͢ck nope
 
Hey, @Joe, Dmitry responded about the return type patch; maybe you could explain the opcache issue to him?
 
@FlorianMargaine you can start with that; it really helps to understand the data structures that are used internally.
Just don't become like Aaron Lewis and ask every single thing on internals ML :)
 
What happened to the PHP logo on php.net?
 
@cspray Nothing happened to it, bro. Note that it is a .php file and go read its source.
 
Man, reading through the AST proposal, I get really excited about it heh
 
4:03 PM
@LeviMorrison Then I must be going insane
 
@LeviMorrison when does it turn into a running elephant again? ;-)
 
@LeviMorrison Ah, ok
 
If I didn't have so many uncommitted, unmergeable changes to my php-web code right now I'd disable it.
@Ja͢ck Can happen at any (or rather specific) times.
 
posted on August 19, 2014 by kbironneau

/* by TrivialPanPan */

 
@LeviMorrison You are working in master??
 
4:05 PM
@LeviMorrison ?refresh=1 .. got it :)
 
user895378
@Danack I can. I was hoping to just get to 1.0.0-rc1 but I've taken too long.
 
user895378
@Ja͢ck I knew you were really Richard Nixon!
 
I am not a crook
 
@DaveRandom No, but this change would make a merge conflict because the code I'm changing is definitely not compatible at all.
 
:)
 
4:06 PM
It's still doable and an easy merge, but I don't feel like doing a manual conflict resolution.
 
oic
@AndreaFaulds I genuinely am a bored 2 year old
 
user895378
@Ja͢ck nice.
 
user895378
@webarto very proud.
 
Is it just me or is it normal that I always imagine Dmitry coding in a blue shirt with backpack on and Ferenc always face palming?
 
user895378
@Danack I'll tag v0.8.0 later today. Just need to do a bit of cleanup first.
 
user895378
4:09 PM
@Ja͢ck no, it's not just you.
 
@rdlowrey btw for the async callbacks, will the $error param always be of one (sub)type or could it be lots of different things?
 
user895378
@Danack It will always be an exception instance
 
cheers.
 
@rdlowrey gotcha .. past bedtime already ... cheers room!
 
user895378
@Danack or null if no error, so boolean checks are always safe
 
user895378
4:10 PM
@Ja͢ck night
 
@DaveRandom and what an intelligent and articulate one you are too
 
user895378
@AndreaFaulds Not potty-trained, though.
 
try { throw $feces; } catch (DaveThrowingPoopException $e) { $toilet->add($e); }
 
lord
 
I am dealing with potty training atm actually, it's not the best element of parenthood I will admit
 
4:17 PM
I can't imagine.
 
I don't want to imagine
 
Plus the cat has started crapping in the cellar again for some reason
 
Sanity check: aside from being silly to do, this is actually not a bug, yes? bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=67848
 
I'm generally spending more time than I would like cleaning up poo
 
@LeviMorrison well, bug? Or design flaw...
 
4:18 PM
> crapping in the cellar again
> again
 
@LeviMorrison oddly, with opcache enabled that may actually work...
 
It's not a bug, yes?
 
@LeviMorrison I'm surprised that doesn't work
 
It shouldn't work, correct?
@DaveRandom And why is that?
 
In my mysql database there are column 'categories' and it is text and contain '6,17' Now I want to check with php wich columns have 17 in it. How do I do it?
SELECT * FROM cats WHERE id=$catalog_id don't work. This only find the first numeber on it.
 
4:22 PM
@rdlowrey If you feel like it, maybe ping me to do some a little testing when you have a version that is cleaned up and ready to be tagged? Also:
PHP Catchable fatal error:  Argument 1 passed to Acesync\Encryptor::isContextOptionMatch() must be of the type array, null given, called in .../vendor/rdlowrey/acesync/lib/Encryptor.php on line 101 and defined in .../vendor/rdlowrey/acesync/lib/Encryptor.php on line 121
 
@LeviMorrison Because you can declare symbols after you use them in code that actually does stuff (as in $f = new Foo; class Foo {} works). Having it so that is not the case during compilation is a bit of a PoLA violation.
I expect symbols to be resolved in a separate step, if the order of decls is significant it implies that they are resolved during parse
 
At compilation phase they have to be resolvable in order to validate interface/abstract conformance.
 
I get why it's like that, but I've never thought about it before and I would have expected that to work
 
@LeviMorrison except if late binding is enabled
 
fuck LSB
 
4:24 PM
not late static binding
late binding of inheritance
 
@LeviMorrison Yes but that error suggests that is done during the actual parse step, whereas I would have expected it just build a table of symbols at that stage and then step through and verify that the dependencies actually exist. I imagine there would be a small perf penalty to that though (although opcache would all but eliminate it)
 
oh
 
@ircmaxell I imagine this is how I had assumed it worked in the first place, when you say "enabled" you mean this is something the user can control?
 
no, an extension (like opcache) would enable it
 
oic
 
4:27 PM
basically it delays symbol lookup to a post-compile step, which can be run externally (by opcache or by the op array) to give the ability to cache the structure independent of other files and structures
 
Yeh that's essentially how I assumed it always worked
All that said, I don't believe it would be worth the effort to "fix" it because it's a stupid thing to do anyway
 
I need help with floating point precision
 
@Gordon ?
 
I have a service that does a calculation with BC. I migrated the code from legacy. The test for the old code would expect a result of int 42. My integration test makes sure the test returns float 42. Still, the test fails. The funny thing is, when I return 42.0 hardcoded, it works.
 
4:34 PM
What did you change about the algorithm?
and are you sure the old test worked?
 
@Gordon not a good idea to use 42
 
@ircmaxell No, I am not sure. But the funny thing is that it does work when I return int 42 or float 42.0 but not when I return (float) '42.0000'
 
what are you using for tests? PHPUnit?
 
yes
 
add a precision parameter...
 
4:38 PM
doesnt help. it's an integration test. so I am getting wrong values in the expected fixtures using the value from the calculation
 
@Gordon Including that literal string -> float cast?
 
@DaveRandom not literal. im calculating with BC so the variable holds a string, but it gets converted to float in the end
 
@Gordon ->with($this->equalTo(42.0, 0.0001)
 
@Gordon ...and string is definitely string(7) "42.0000"? (is my point)
 
(facepalm)
nvm :)
 
4:43 PM
:-P
 
PEBKAC
I modified the wrong fixture to sum to 42
 
lol
 
:-D
 
thanks my little rubberducky friends
 
I understood a thing ...
 
4:48 PM
@JoeWatkins and what thing might that be?
 
the rubber duck reference
 
:-)
 
you were probably expecting something good there ... sorry to let you down :D
 
( •_•)

( •_•)>⌐■-■

(⌐■_■)
 
> @param string $str_str
Hungarian notation is stupid
 
4:51 PM
hehe
so ...
 
hmm, that's odd. I have to change the fixtures for both tests to calculate to 42
 
@ircmaxell ... what are the chances of being able to leverage this ast thing with some ninja jit stuff ?
 
if I only change one, it keeps failing
spooky
 
and also, how pressing would you say a ng jitfu is for the thing you may or may not be working on possibly ?
and also has nikic left that out of the rfc because there dragons be ?
 
Hi
 
4:53 PM
@JoeWatkins I wouldn't say pressing
 
okay ... I'll start in the next month or so anyway, just trying to make a list of things to do ... remake a list of things to do ...
 
yeah
I think the more important things for the project are full string support, and array support
 
indeed, i'll be getting to that before then I hope ... I've tried a couple of times ...
I think what I'm doing is flawed in some way but I don't see it ...
 
:-)
that's why we pay you the big bucks :-D
 
hehe
so you think there's an extension that could exist that could remove the need for php-parser?
 
4:57 PM
I don't think I want to depend on said extension
because PHP-Parser has the possibility of this being completely self-hosting
 
what would the reasons for that be ? and what if it were part of core/reflection
 
whereas without PHP-Parser, self hosting is off the line :-D
 
we could surely get reflection what it needed tho, so it'd always be there right ?
 
either way, it's not the slow part, so I wouldn't worry too much about it :-D
 
okay then, I won't :D
 
4:59 PM
the ast vote is going exceptionally well
I wonder when derick will vote no on it
 
indeed
ha
after the blog post is drafted probably ...
 
after all, those major backwards compatibility breaks are a total no-go for php 7, right?
 
imagine you are him, at your feet lays xdebug, which you know you have to change all of for ng, you have to spend probably more than 100 hours with your head deep in the bowels of xdebug ... I'd be on edge too ...
 
@JoeWatkins he didn't seem particularly fazed about that
 
I'd probably have a little cry even ...
he doesn't have a choice tho ...
 
5:03 PM
does Rasmus have a veto?
 
I dunno why he voted no, but I can understand if he resists anymore change, he's got a fair amount of work to do ...
no
 
@FlorianMargaine luckily not
he probably doesn't even know what PHP is about anymore :(
 
he doesn't, but ppl tend to be sheep if he speaks up about something ...
 
he's not really involved in php-src anymore?
 
yes he is
 
5:04 PM
kind-of
 
his most active project simply isn't being used ...
 
Haven't seen him post much in the past few months.
 
up until apc was ditched he was still pretty active ...
 
apc was his most active project?
 
5:05 PM
yeah kind of ... he willingly gave up his most active project ...
yeah
 
The Real Value of $100 -- "The tax policy consequences of this data are significant." http://taxfoundation.org/blog/real-value-100-each-state http://t.co/XS6cTmZbCm
 
@ircmaxell sucks to be where you live :-P
 
yup
 
The events in Missouri suggest that this has no bearing on how generally satisfied you will be with where you live though...
 
@FlorianMargaine found something to work on yet ?
 
5:12 PM
@JoeWatkins haven't started looking. I'll read the book first anyway
 
which book ?
 
the internal book
 
oh oh ... yeah ... good call ...
 
there's an actual book by sara too ... but copies are like gold dust iirc ...
 
5:15 PM
no online copy?
 
really about writing extensions, but good stuff whatever ...
I dunno ... I like paper books ...
maybe available on the kindle thing ?
 
a bit dated now (was written against 5.2, a bunch changed since then), but conceptually excellent
 
yeah that's true ...
I guess there aren't any paper books for modern php ...
@krakjoe Is it serious? available now? what is major different in this version ?
hello man from under rock, welcome to the internetz :D
 
come on, php7 has been decided a week or so ago only :P
well, an eternity in internet times.
 
but but ... I was being funny ...
going to do a podcast in ten minutes ... that'll be fun ...
 
5:24 PM
online?
 
yeah
skype I think actually ...
 
oh, so registered then shared later
 
@JoeWatkins have fun!
 
poor chaps have been waiting for about two weeks ... I'm such a shit lately ....
 
@JoeWatkins How can it be (c) 1997-2014?
 
5:31 PM
good point ...
copypasta is messy :)
should be 2014 right ?
 
yup
there's also no LICENSE file :P
 
totally fixed
 
magic!
 
I'm a computer wizard, don't ya know !!! :D
> PHP 5.4 is about to start to receive security only fixes
scanned and got
> PHP 5.4 is about to start to receive security oles
 
> PHP 5.4 is about to start to receive security oles
Aye ate the 'oles, and I ate yer dog.
 
5:37 PM
security moles?
 
hehe
security mole at work ...
 
This article is a list of articles comprising a list of things that are themselves lists of things, such as the lists of lists listed below. == General reference == Lists of academic journals Lists of important publications in science == Culture and the arts == === Literature === Lists of books Lists of The New York Times Fiction Best Sellers Lists of The New York Times Non-Fiction Best Sellers Publishers Weekly lists of bestselling novels in the United States Lists of bookstores Lists of LGBT figures in fiction and myth Lists of Middle-earth articles Lists of New Testament minuscule...
 
the ppl at wikimedia have too much free time I think ...
I'm doing nothing and the fans in my pc are going crazy ...
oh updates ... scary updates are scary ...
Removing "bash, libgcc ..."
 
@ircmaxell Does a list of all lists of lists contain itself? The answer is... yes! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lists_of_lists#Miscellaneous
 
in JavaScript, 9 mins ago, by ircmaxell
@Retsam at least the list of lists of lists is on the list of lists of lists...
 
5:51 PM
This might be crazy, but I wonder if we should try to add each scalar type hint individually. Certain hints would be less controversial than others...
 
you're right, it's crazy ...
 
user895378
It sounds crazy to me. What's the logic?
 
user895378
having the most difficult time being motivated to work
 
what's this "the logic" you speak of strange internet man ?
 
5:55 PM
@rdlowrey Then drink some water and go to the gym.
(or do something else)
 
there was once an army who, to intimidate their opponents, used to get big pigs to run at the enemy, to motivate the pigs they set them on fire ... so maybe ... bit of fire ?
 
@JoeWatkins build a man a fire, and keep him warm for a night. Set him on fire and keep him warm for the rest of his life...
 
hehehe
 
user895378
That's a pretty good description of learning to code.
 
@JoeWatkins I think this one'd make a better security mole:
 
user895378
5:59 PM
"I just wanted to automate this thing and now I'm on fire."
 
@DanLugg better kit probably ...
 
Imagine typing with a face like that?
 
with the actual face ?
I dunno if they can do that ...
I hope they can or can be trained to do that ...
 
I can imagine the IRC handle being D4VEY_J0NES or C7HULHU
 
6:07 PM
Too real.
 
They should change the name
 
fancy
 
In my mysql database there are column 'categories' and it is text and contain '6,17' Now I want to check with php wich columns have 17 in it. How do I do it?
SELECT * FROM cats WHERE id=$catalog_id don't work. This only find the first numeber on it.
 
Anyone heard of deployer?
 
what do you guys prefer:
1) $class->$method($args)
2) call_user_func([$class, $method], $args)
 
6:17 PM
@Arto Please go look up database normalization. Do not store your data that way.
 
@Charles I can't make any modifications on database because its program related.
 
@Arto I'm sorry to hear that. Unfortunately you're up a creek with that design and you'll basically need to do something like column LIKE '17,%' OR column LIKE '%,17,%' OR column LIKE '%,17' OR column = '17'
Incidentally this type of search can't be indexed (in mysql), so it's going to effectively cause a full table scan unless there's other stuff in that WHERE clause.
I advise hiring a hit squad to take out the so-called "developers" that designed the database.
 
I hate, hate, HATE databases that store data like that
HATE
If you're storing a comma separated value in a database field you're probably doing it wrong
I've found critical relationships between pieces of data stored as a friggin' PHP serialized array
 
Any significant differences of having an API at api.webiste.com vs website.com/api?
 
@Charles That hit squad sound good.. heh. And thanks for help.
 
6:26 PM
@Fabien That's pretty awesome. If I understand correctly, they're using voxel based light-rendering.
 
Any regex master around? I need to grep ^[^#] (every line that doesn't start with #) but I'm failing miserably. I need to pass a linux .conf file to another file without the comments (I don't care about key = value #comment - this may come in)
just the obvious one: api.website.com is neater than website.com/api/
I use the *second* one when the API is for the site itself (say, a fluke function or wtv) and the first if I'm making a proper API
 
Refresh, fixed formatting bug
 
The one thing I love about this room is how envolved in PHP you guys are. Seriously, wish someday I may do a fraction of what you guys do (both here and to the internals, but I'm dreaming on the internals xD)
 
@AndreaFaulds No Introduction section?
 
@LeviMorrison Yep, no introduction.
I put the changes first and the rationale second
 
6:41 PM
It's not a big deal; I just wish more people used the Introduction section to give a good introduction, and try encouraging it by making the first paragraph in the section larger.
^^
 
Also: try making a one-line sentence rationale. Keep the rest, but add a one-liner at the top (an elevator pitch)
 
user895378
@MoshMage Just a tip: don't ever start a question with "Any <subject> master around?" ... that's the universal translation for, "I have no idea what I'm doing and I'm about to be a help vampire." Just state your question and what you've tried that didn't work. It'll work much better.
 
Can a array store image and string together?
 
Hmm
OK, I'll write an "elevator pitch"
'This RFC improves cross-platform consistency in PHP for some operations dealing with integers, and makes PHP's behaviour more intuitive, as well as partly paving the way for [[rfc:bigint|Big Integer Support]].' that sound good?
 
My bad. My bad. Though I used "regex master" because I was really at wits end. Though the regex *was* correct, I was simply missusing it :x
I'll never do that again, php master sir [lol.]
 
user895378
6:46 PM
@MoshMage it's fine, just trying to help you get better answers to your questions ;)
 
I know, just teasing you \o/
I had the darnest day today: Half of it was trying to set up Postfix when in fact I was using sendmail. The other half was trying to fix Postfix Access Denied to every received email. Maaaan, my wits are nearly spent x)
On to google some more to try and figure out what kind of sender_permissions I need :|
Last case scenario? Reset the VPS to its born-state and try again :D
 
@LeviMorrison @ircmaxell I added that intro in case you missed it
 
user2518044
Hello! I'm trying to make a simple ORM for personal project but I'm not sure if I really understand models relationships. Can somebody check if the returned results are correct? - 3v4l.org/KrHSn#v540
 
@AndreaFaulds looks good
 

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