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5:00 PM
@CarrieKendall Language wise, PHP; however it's an agnostic question due to the focus on design or pattern choice. Distilled down, I have a question about adapting walker objects to unique nodes when traversing a tree, and while I have a few solutions mocked up, none seem right and I'm interested in a fresh perspective.
 
user50049
@MikeB In other words, the first thing I ask when restoring a question and giving it the special lock is "Did deleting this question break the context of other posts within our current guidelines in a way that can't be fixed?"
 
user50049
In this case .. no, not from what I saw.
 
@Bracketworks if I were you, I would choose ONE possible solution in my question that I think has the most potential and leave the question open for better solutions.
 
@CarrieKendall I considered that; leave it as a "this is what I got, whaddya think?"
 
user50049
5:03 PM
Would I like to see that archived in a nice glass case in all of its shiny glory? Yes, it was a fun read.
 
@TimPost Gotcha, so the historical significance thing doesn't even come into consideration yet because it doesn't meet the undelete criteria
 
user50049
@MikeB For the most part. I've seen one or two rare exceptions, but one of them can't be undeleted because it was purged from the DB (the boat programming one) which does have historical significance because of the fuss that was made over it and the number of times it's been referenced.
 
hi all ;)
 
@hakre hola!
 
@MikeB jow. what's cooking?
 
5:11 PM
@rdlowrey @tereško @NikiC @ircmaxell Do you guys think that the text DOWNLOAD PHP needs to be there?
Meaning, do you think it is explanatory enough to remove it?
 
user895378
@LeviMorrison Totally unscientific opinion: I think it's explanatory enough to remove it, but I also think I like the way it looks with the DOWNLOAD PHP title. So either way is fine with me.
 
@LeviMorrison as opposed to
 
CERT882 if you want to get $195 ZCE voucher for $125
 
@ircmaxell Something more like:
 
Smurf Naming Convention, I have seen that so often I'm surprised my head hasn't spun off: umumble.com/blogs/Programming/321
 
5:17 PM
 
@LeviMorrison hrm... To be honest, I like with
 
@ircmaxell I'm just having trouble giving everything room to breathe up there without making it any bigger. So I thought I'd try removing the DOWNLOAD PHP header.
 
I like the slightly crunched part...
 
@TimPost Okay, I didn't know that historical significance is measured in links. I thought it was just there to prevent loss of content which is now outside the scope of the site.
 
@LeviMorrison , the download bar looks wrong
the spacing is off
 
5:21 PM
this is what i get for being talked into buying something other than the walmart brand :'[
 
@tereško I'm trying to fix it. :/
 
@ircmaxell RE the scalar typehinting RFC
A few questions
 
sure
 
a) Why did you decide to not introduce new keywords?
 
based on feedback from laurance (I think) last time... Additionally so that it's BC...
 
5:27 PM
@LeviMorrison what about making the areas where one could click for download visible? Are those two links per each box or are that three links? Which download is available for the large arrow?
 
You should explicitely point this out in the RFC
Because I'm not sure that I like this typehint/class ambiguity
E.g., I can define an int class, but I can't typehint against it
 
Ruby to PHP compiler, I'm curious how that should work.
 
@hakre Rather, why would you want it to . . .
 
@hakre I'm rather interested how that helps his point
 
@NikiC you can :-P foo(Int $int)
 
5:28 PM
@ircmaxell Even worse in a way ;)
 
@hakre Big arrow -> clicking on PHP 5.x
 
Because it breaks the usual keyword-case-insensitivity semantics
 
What's Jeff trying to say in that image? I loosly followed his whole double-claw hammer analogy about PHP
 
@NikiC I know
 
Bottom,and left corner of monitor @MikeB
 
5:30 PM
Honestly, anyone who named a class Int and didn't prefix/namespace it was a moron.
Exception would be if it was in core and used auto-boxing.
 
I saw the reference about Ruby to PHP.. but I don't understand what he's trying to say
 
@NikiC and now that I'm thinking about it, it would break in a namespace as well
 
@MikeB He want's to have compatibility for all his stuff as much as PHP but he does not like to write code in PHP language. Therefore he does ruby code and then compiles it to PHP.
 
@hakre Got it, ty
 
I'll add the parser changes
 
5:40 PM
@hakre A futile effort I think
@ircmaxell That was not my intention
Or maybe it was?
I think both approaches have their advantages and disadvantages
 
@NikiC news on that one: bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=62452
 
I realized that there's an issue with this implementation. it won't work within a namespace
 
@LeviMorrison I don't understand
 
I'm trying to break down the problem I'm having to a question permissible on SO. I've pasted it for anyone who want's a brief read: pastebin.com/YtKAXtxZ
Note: Incomplete.
 
@hakre Clicking the arrow is the same as clicking on the PHP 5.3.14 or 5.4.4
 
5:44 PM
@LeviMorrison so you get two downloads at once?!
or is it just going to the download page?
 
@hakre heh
 
@NikiC sh*t, I miswrote his/her name. can you fix that?
 
I was like WTF until I looked at the bottom left of the page
 
@hakre No ;) And that's not his name anyways. laruence is Xinchen Hui in reality ;)
 
@ircmaxell for the lulz?
 
5:51 PM
:-P
 
@Bracketworks tl;dr :P
 
@CarrieKendall Yea, I know... Not only do I need to figure out a question, I need to stop writing novels..
 
^ Simplified downloads section. Thoughts?
 
Why such a narrow format @LeviMorrison? Why not a fluid design?
@LeviMorrison I like it
 
5:53 PM
@LeviMorrison Uhm, where did that download for windows go?
 
@NikiC We have 4 flipping download pages for PHP. We only need one that allows for all the options . . .
 
OS detect via UA string would be nice...
 
@NikiC IE something more like: prototype.php.net/downloads.php
 
Well, isn't it better to have the direct links?
@ircmaxell Okay, so I had some more stuff
@ircmaxell Why is true/false allowed for a string argument?
 
@webarto +1
 
5:58 PM
Oh, and talking about bools, why is it boolean, not bool?
 
@NikiC No, because there is tar.gz, bz2, two different windows versions . . . we can't cram all that onto the front page. Just take me to a downloads page, please.
 
@LeviMorrison Please write below: "make it yours" ;)
 
@NikiC because it's allowed to zpp...
 
@LeviMorrison Drop bz2. Nobody needs that. What two windows version?
@ircmaxell Forget about zpp for a moment. bool to int might still make sense, but bool to string doesn't make any sense
 
@NikiC Thread-safe and non-thread safe.
My point is that we don't need to give all the options on the homepage.
 
6:02 PM
I don't think it's wise to forget about zpp. User functions and core functions should behave similarly
 
Especially when those links don't download anything as it is.
 
@ircmaxell Forget about zpp.
Really
 
They simply take you to yet another page.
 
You aren't doing yourself a favor with that
We are talking about new functionality here and it should not be impeded by bad decisions made in the past.
@LeviMorrison In that case it might make sense
@ircmaxell Btw, I don't think that 12.5 -> int should be E_RECOVERABLE. Imho it should pass through 12 and throw a notice. (I.e., no, I actually do think that it should be recoverable, but only if "12abc" is recoverable too)
 
fair enough
 
6:09 PM
There now i'm back in action.... Just ditched the Virus known as Windows and replaced it with some ubuntu on my work laptop...
 
Hi people, can somebody help on how to add a simple javascript function to Wordpress admin page, so that will execute onload? I found wp enqueue() should do that, but I have NO EXPERIENCE with WordPress. And the original question (not mine) is here: stackoverflow.com/questions/11281428/…
 
user50049
@Justin Unity rage in 5 ... 4 ... 3 ... 2 ...
 
lol, reminds me to switch that new laptop on and put linux onto it.
 
nice @hakre -- I got drunk last night -- and decided to put linux on this machine @ 4AM lol
 
@Justin I'm not drunk and actually do it for a customer who demands it.
@Stano So you ask here to answer a question somebody else asked? You have learned recursion ;)
 
6:18 PM
nice... bout the customer demanding it -- not that you're not drunk... should ALWAYS be drunk!! (i have a bottle of liquor in my office at ALL times)
 
@hakre @hakre Yeah, justt I am also interested on how can it be done :-)
 
@TimPost It's not as bad in 12.04. Thankfully./
 
I'm actually fairly new to ubuntu as a whole so all I've ever seen is 12.04... Coming from a cent-os background
 
But if nobody care about that, it's not a hot problem! Think I will install wordpress on localhost and try it on my own. jff Have a good time ubuntuers! :-)
 
@Justin This keeps the lIquor flowing
 
6:29 PM
@hakre Of course this coming from Australia...
 
Looks like amnesties protest is working: The US are giving the weapons away, so it does not stay in the wrong hands.
@Truth Yes they complain not to be on the list.
At least germany is third.
So, human rights at large scale, China is a very good country.
And Russia is not that bad compared to the US.
I wonder what the stats say about percentage of the population behind bars.
Lol, wikipedia is first when you ask google that: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States
 
@NikiC: should null ever satisfy a typed parameter?
 
@ircmaxell Unless it has a = null default, no
 
right, ok
 
though, I'm not so sure actually
 
6:37 PM
So typed scalar arguments will always puke on null?
 
It is the normal semantics of null, but I don't know exactly whether they are the best choice for scalar typehints
 
I'm in the middle. I can see either way
 
Well, other languages allow null for reference types, but provide Nullable<T> or similar wrappers for value types. And to follow suit with PHP's typing, wouldn't null be an invalid argument anyway?
 
@hakre doesn't matter really.. as long as the liquor store stays open i'm a happy camper ;)
 
I'd say (integer $foo) should puke on NULL, and (integer $foo = NULL) shouldn't.
The former's a required argument and the latter is optional.
 
6:43 PM
@Bracketworks PHP also allows null when null is the default ;)
@ircmaxell I'd lean towards the usual behavior
 
@NikiC True, that's what I was getting at with the "follow suit" mention.
 
@NikiC usual behavior with respect to what? ZPP or Class hinting in userland?
 
@ircmaxell userland typehinting
does zpp allow null for all?
 
primitives at least
null is valid for int
 
evening
 
6:55 PM
eve
 
afternoon
 
@NikiC: I think I have most of those taken care of
 
Wow, that's a huge fluent interface call: github.com/nikic/PHP-Parser/issues/30
 
That's a huuuuuge bitch
 
It does read nicely though...
 
7:04 PM
Why should my REST API have friendly urls? SEO? accessibility? (why is this:"server.com/api/get/userid" is btter than this "domain.com/api?getuser&id=userid")? any good reason?
 
@agam360 Your URI architecture becomes self documenting
 
@agam360 I'd say neither. A properly friendly URL would be more like server.com/api/user?id=123
 
Also note, your former example isn't exactly better because you have HTTP verbs as URI segments.
 
@Bracketworks Can you expand that, please?
@Bracketworks, "self documenting", meaning it describes itself better?
 
7:07 PM
Expanding on GordonM's; GET http://server.com/api/user?id=123 as an HTTP request is good; the GET method satisfies the action taken against the resource; the resource is user, and the id you're looking to GET is 123.
 
@NikiC Good news. I just fired up a SSH connection to see whether I can deploy viper7's codepad
No guarantees though
 
Should I use a POST to add a new user, or should I use get and insert a creation action as a parameter (I've seen that Get requests are cheaper than post,put in some cloud server) or does that make this worse? @Bracketworks
 
I might go a step further and do GET .../api/user/123 but that's a matter of context. I prefer to parse any response dependent parameters from the segments, as opposed to having them as query parameters. .../api/user is all users, .../api/user/(?<id>[0-9]+) is the user with the provided matching ID
@agam360 You need to find a solid resource on RESTful API architectures; cause I can't splains' it all
 
sigh... I hate the parser sometimes
 
@Bracketworks, thanks :)
 
7:12 PM
I love vsprintf
 
@NikiC Now there's some API abuse for you!
 
Could someone fake the referrer in a request to my server? what security measures could I use to encounter that? (I can't use secret keys)
 
@agam360 Nothing you can do to prevent referer forgery (besides using keys) AFAIK
 
Ok, thanks
 
7:22 PM
 
@rdlowrey You've been quiet today
 
user895378
@LeviMorrison Welllll ... I spent all of yesterday locked in mortal combat with a wicked bug in an "importance" type algorithm that was identifying meaningless insider transactions in publicly traded stocks as uber-important. I got it fixed, and now I've spent all day today refactoring and improving the design of the HTTP content negotiation package that I wanted to do yesterday.
 
user895378
That's why I'm not saying much ... I've been glued to my text-editor for the last 36 hours or so
 
Wow, look at all the would be rep whores. stackoverflow.com/questions/11317762/…
 
7:31 PM
haha
 
Guys, I'm trying to build a login system which enables the user to login with their username OR password.. This query doesn't work for some reason: "SELECT * FROM Users WHERE email = ? OR username = ? AND password = ?";
what am I doing wrong?:P
 
Presidence issues spring immediately to mind.
 
Even though "It doesn't work for some reason" isn't a useful diagnostic tool. In what way does it not work?
What happens when you run it in the SQL shell instead of via PHP?
What have you tried to troubleshoot the issue?
 
7:38 PM
@Mittchel OR and AND without parenthesis :/
 
For some reason it logs in while my username/email and password combination isnt right
 
because it's parsed as
 
Can't imagine why. :) Presidence issues.
 
email = ? OR (username = ? AND password = ?)
 
@Mittchel Learn about operator precedence
 
7:39 PM
hm lol sounds logical dumb me
 
|| and && are actually pretty much the only thing I use parenthesis for
 
What does installing something on Linux always equal agonizing pain? :(
 
I usually take the least-parenthesis approach, but for those it's better to be clear
@PeeHaa Cause Linux isn't Windows
It has to be agonizing pain by design
 
@PeeHaa because
 
@NikiC So I've noticed
 
7:41 PM
sudo apt-get install somepackage is agonizing pain?
 
sudo yum -y install foo
 
@rdlowrey I'm glad you fixed it.
 
@ircmaxell No it's never me who is doing it wrong it's always the system
 
(This coming from a Mac user, BTW)
 
@ircmaxell lol you never tried to install anything ;)
 
7:41 PM
@PeeHaa But what is even worse is trying to install software by linux developers on windows ^^
 
Ben
it's UNinstalling that is agonizing for me not the other way around
 
@ircmaxell I'm trying to do a yum install, but ofcourse conflicts all over the place
@NikiC :)
 
user895378
@LeviMorrison Yeah, it was the usual debug workflow: (1) Be utterly confused and say, "that can't happen", (2) Eventually track the problem down to "user-stupidity" and (3) write a new test case to make sure it can't ever happen again.
 
yum is a great tool (when it works) don't get me wrong
 
@rdlowrey I'd kill for a workflow like that. :(
 
7:43 PM
@PeeHaa I've used linux for more than the past 15 years. 10 years as a primary desktop (Ubuntu mainly), and the past 6 years CentOS on the server. I've never had a significant yum conflict. I've had major apt conflicts, but never a lib conflict unless I was trying to do something stupid...
 
user895378
@GordonM I'd kill for a little less "user-stupidity" on my part :)
 
@rdlowrey Incorrect boolean logic is the hardest type of bug for me to spot.
Once I notice it, it's an easy fix, for sure. But I can look at a boolean expression for a long time before I notice anything wrong with it . . .
 
@rdlowrey I'll take it over "Lead developer stupidity"
Maybe that's a little harsh. I do like the guy. And I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say that it was incompetent management putting unreasonable demands and/or moving the goalpoats that's lead to the codebase being in the state it is. I just would rather not work on his code.
 
user895378
@GordonM Your logic make sense to me.
 
@ircmaxell Ok I like to know where I'm doing stupid things:
sudo yum -y install gearmand
 
7:47 PM
@PeeHaa That's so stupid!!!!!
 
Transaction Check Error:
  file /usr/bin/event_rpcgen.py from install of compat-libevent14-1.4.13-1.rhel6.x86_64 conflicts with file from package libevent-devel-2.0.12-1.rhel6.x86_64
  file /usr/lib64/libevent_core.a from install of compat-libevent14-1.4.13-1.rhel6.x86_64 conflicts with file from package libevent-devel-2.0.12-1.rhel6.x86_64
  file /usr/lib64/libevent_core.so from install of compat-libevent14-1.4.13-1.rhel6.x86_64 conflicts with file from package libevent-devel-2.0.12-1.rhel6.x86_64
 
which repo are you installing from
you're mixing and matching packages from different repos
which is a no-no
 
@ircmaxell You don't say... /me silently checks whether postgresql repo is still enabled
 
^ Thoughts on that layout?
Thanks to would be greyed out company logos.
 
@LeviMorrison That's the only part I dislike
 
7:49 PM
My issue with it is that no news items would be displayed directly on the homepage.
 
@LeviMorrison There is something strange about the downloads stripe. But can't say exactly what
 
@LeviMorrison I've already said I dislike those 4 big icon spots. I'd rather see them replaced with meaningful cotnent
 
user895378
@ircmaxell I'm a +1 on that
 
Looks better than previous iterations i've seen
 
@LeviMorrison I'd say the arrow should be to the right of "Begin tutorial". But still, big step up from what's there currently.
Also, I think I still owe you a tutorial don't I?
 
user895378
7:51 PM
@LeviMorrison It does annoy me that that search box isn't the same width as the column below it ...
 
@ircmaxell agree
 
@GordonM You don't owe it to me, per se.
@rdlowrey Noted. Good catch.
 
I'm out
later
 
Still, going to get to work on it now. The code bit of it anyway
 
user895378
@ircmaxell peace out yo
 
7:52 PM
@GordonM on what?
 
PHP tutorials
Oh, has anyone tried the new netbeans RC yet? How stable is it?
 
@ircmaxell hmmmz looks like postgresql dependency is the culprit
 
@GordonM what kind of tutorials?
 
@NikiC Something to replace the "Something useful" tutorial.
I'm thinking of running through an app that implements this algorithm:
All algorithms should be expressible in song, if you ask me.
 
@GordonM Isn't @PeeHaa already working on the php tut?
 
8:00 PM
I thought there were various bits that needed doing?
 
ah, so @PeeHaa is only doing the basic syntax introduction?
 
is this a f* joke or what
am I wrong somewhere?
 
no... support agents are 99.999999999% of the time douches who know nothing.
if you don't ask a question that is answered on their book of pre scriptured answers they are tools
 
user895378
@LeviMorrison And right on queue, I just spent the last 7 or 8 minutes figuring out a problem that turned out to be incorrect boolean logic :)
 
@rlemon It's like talking to an bot, but seriously how can $1 == 1€
 
8:04 PM
journalism explained : newscatgif.tumblr.com
 
IDK I had issues with my host where I was telling them that my site was slow and providing them with traceroutes of the hangup (at their end) which delayed my content delivery by 30 seconds..... they just sent me back an email saying "it's fine here... see my report"
I raged and showed them my shit... they again invalidated it... they I demanded a refund which magically got refunded to a card I do not own... and somehow I have to prove I never owned this card... but they won't give me the card number.... so yea.
DO NOT EVER PURCHASE HOSTING FROM IPAGE
 
noted
 
yeah try site5.com :P
in PHP (Zend), $1 === 1€
 
@webarto It's sad to see actual human beings that fail the Turing Test
 
what makes you think that you weren't talking to a bot ?
or guy from India
 
8:12 PM
@GordonM hopefully, it was a poorly written bot... @tereško Jesse from India, nice :) I'm waiting reply from real person.
 
@webarto , sounds like you have never talked to on phone to support
 
@ircmaxell Like so? ^
 
@tereško I am agree, right :)
 
.. damn .. that sentence didnt come out in english
 
I'm stupid
 
8:20 PM
as intended :) @tereško
@NikiC I just formatted partition with MBR, beat that
 
8:31 PM
@tereško @NikiC @rdlowrey @tereško ^ How about that?
(The highlight colors are a joke)
 
user895378
@LeviMorrison big +1 for normalizing the search box width.
 
so , you decided to go with pride theme
 
user895378
lol
 
@tereško Pride?
 
nevermind
the "thanks to" but is off
 
8:35 PM
The thanks to portion will have greyed out logos, probably.
 
the main content is ok there , but the sidebar must be different
 
horizontally spread.
 
and the boxes should have a border ( i would go with a more intensive shade of same color )
 
@tereško Others have said no border.
 
no black/gray border
actually you might try without the boxes , and instead have an icon
 
8:39 PM
@LeviMorrison i don't like the unicorn throw up :[
 
user895378
7 mins ago, by Levi Morrison
(The highlight colors are a joke)
 
user895378
@CarrieKendall Looks like someone already checked out mentally for 4th of July :)
 
oh thank god ^^
 
user895378
Hehe you were totally trying to figure out how to say, "those colors are terrible," without being rude.
 
that's where the unicorn throw up came in :P
@tereško LOL
 
@LeviMorrison Do you think gist.github.com/3042958 is a reasonable level for a bit of code for including in the tutorials? I tried to do something that shows off a few of the common PHP features, demonstrates input validation and keeps to decent practice without overcluttering it.
Or @anyone else for that matter
@PeeHaa How do I shot web
 
@GordonM You have strange coding style
 

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