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12:35 PM
@JohnP the icon isn't showing
 
@hakre hello :)
posted this on SO yesterday.. got only 22 views with no constructive answer.. http://stackoverflow.com/q/8720909/858515
the question: What is a functionality of dispatcher in zend framework? Is it more or less a Dependency Injection module?
 
Generally:
> The dispatcher is the module that gives control of the CPU to the process selected by the short-term scheduler. This function involves the following:
>
> * Switching context
> * Switching to user mode
> * Jumping to the proper location in the user program to restart that program
>
> The dispatcher should be as fast as possible, since it is invoked during every process switch. The time it takes for the dispatcher to stop one process and start another running is known as the dispatch latency. [Galvin, 155].
In Zend Framework:
> Dispatching is the process of taking the request object, Zend_Controller_Request_Abstract, extracting the module name, controller name, action name, and optional parameters contained in it, and then instantiating a controller and calling an action of that controller. If any of the module, controller, or action are not found, it will use default values for them.
So it allow run-time resolution of classnames for a specific type of objects, as well as for function names and their parameters.
This can be used to configure the callback functions Zend_Framework invokes while processing the request.
 
@hakre I knew the scheduling part.. wanted to know wat it is wrt to ZEND. And thanks for posting the later.
 
wrt?
 
with respect to
@hakre I have implemented this in my MVC then!
but the module can also inject objects! I think I need to separate the functionality.
 
12:52 PM
Which part of your MVC can be dispatched? The Controller, the View or the Model?
 
@hakre the controllers and the models
@hakre the kind of routing that I am doing is not that good Is what I feel now. as the router has a dispatcher object so it can dispatch as well..
 
1:18 PM
Closures might be useful for dispatching as they can be used to decorate function calls.
 
<?php

            $cond=$current[0]->condition['data'];
            $col="http:/localhost/test/images/mostly_cloudy.png";
            if(strcmp($cond,"Mostly Cloudy"))
            {

            <img src="$col" alt=""/>

            }
            ?>
what is the right way to use image tag in php code??
 
You can't put HTML in PHP code.
either put it outside the <?php ?> tags or display it through the echo function.
 
then what should i supposed to do??
you mean echo"<img src="$col" alt=""/>; " ???
 
echo "<img src=\"$col\" alt=\"\"/>";
You have to escape the quotes so they are not parsed by php.
or use single quotes for echo
echo'<img src="$col" alt=""/>';
 
@hakre looking into closures
 
1:29 PM
@hakre In that context, a closure is nothing more than a functional equivalent of a polymorphic object call. So why not just make dispatcher classes which have a ->dispatch() method on the interface. That way, you can pass in any class that implmenets Dispatcher without worrying about decorating functions and the like?
 
@BenjaminBrizzi Thanks :-)
 
@ircmaxell hmmm.. currently I am doing something similar..
 
:-D
I'm just not a fan of mixing paradigms...
 
@ircmaxell Yes, was my first thought, but it's lengthy to write ;)
 
1:33 PM
@hakre Longer? Sure. More Maintainable? Perhaps (since there's more room for re-use)... Easier to follow? Perhaps (since they would be in their own file, so it should be easy to find)... Easy to write? Absolutely. Easier to test? Absolutely...
 
@hakre @ircmaxell :)
 
That's just my opinion. Not an absolute
 
@ircmaxell yup inkow
 
@ircmaxell I posted an example of an Invokeable type some days ago, incl. with own invoke implementations.
 
@hakre huh?
I must have missed it
ok, I have to head in to work. Be back in about an hour or so...
 
1:45 PM
@BenjaminBrizzi If i want to use the direct link then what should i do??
echo "<img src=\"$col\" alt=\"\"/>"; If i want to use the direct image link then what should i do??instead of using variable
 
@ircmaxell: no problem, the implementation classes hadn't had the right interface.
And for MVC it's probably worth to make both the dispatchable action and the controller factory dispatchable:
interface Dispatchable
{
	public function dispatch(array $params = array());
}

interface ControllerDispatch
{
	public function preNew(DispatchableControllerDependency $dependency);
	public function postNew(DispatchableControllerDependency $dependency);
}

interface ActionDispatch
{
	public function preAction($dependency);
	public function postAction($dependency);
}

class DispatchableControllerDependency
{
	private $factory;
	private $params;
	private $subject;
	private $controller;
	/**
	 *
	 *
 
if(!strcmp($cond,"Mostly Cloudy"))
            {
              $col="/test/images/weather/mostly_cloudy.png";
              echo "<img src=\"$col\" alt=\"\"/>";

            }
            else if(strcmp($cond,"Thunderstorm"))
            {
                $col="/test/images/weather/thunderstorm.png";
                 echo "<img src=\"$col\" alt=\"\"/>";

            }
 
Morning folks
 
"<img src=\"$col\" alt=\"\"/>"; i want to use the direct link instead of variable.then what should i do??
@Bracketworks morning.
 
Anyone savvy on PSR-0?
 
2:00 PM
@YasirAdnan
echo "<img src=\"/test/images/weather/thunderstorm.png\" alt=\"\" />";
 
Hi to all, i want php ssh connection
I have allready installed the necessery packages
When i am trying to use phpseclib0.2.2 library everything seems to be ok..
But when i am trying to connect from package functions something goes wrong
My script is:
<?php
if (!function_exists("ssh2_connect")) die("function ssh2_connect doesn't exist");
// log in at server1.example.com on port 22
if(!($con = ssh2_connect("maria.netmode.ntua.gr", 22))){
echo "fail: unable to establish connection\n";
} else {
// try to authenticate with username root, password secretpassword
the error that displlays is Warning: ssh2_auth_password() [function.ssh2-auth-password]: Authentication failed for netmg056 using password in /var/www/dap/el/ssh.php on line 8
fail: unable to authenticate
Any advice would be usefull!!
 
@user726730 It appears what's going wrong is you have the wrong password
Authentication failed for netmg056 using password
 
No with phpseclib0.2.2 http://sourceforge.net/projects/phpseclib/files/
everything goes well!!
 
hey @edorian , this slide you linked to (conference.phpnw.org.uk/phpnw11/schedule/volker-dusch), is there an accompanying video?
Also is there a place where I can watch the videos for these PHP conferences you guys talk about / talk at @Gordon @ircmaxell
 
Are you sure hunter2 is the right password? ;)
 
2:14 PM
@JohnP Yea, it's immediately above it
 
@JohnP Flashblock?
 
hmm, slow conn. Let me reload
 
Also @edorian, nice job on the presentation :)
 
heh, now it show up >.<
 
Thank you @Bracketworks
 
2:17 PM
It was informative and quite entertaining :)
It got me thinking about my current practices; not entirely directly, but for things such as namespace architecture, transitioning from the former underscore to directory, now to backslash to directory mirroring
 
@Bracketworks i found this class http://php.net/manual/en/function.ssh2-connect.php (in the last comment)
How can i use it..(i don't knnow anything about class in php)
 
@user726730 Unfortunately, I'm not certain, I don't much work with the SSH extensions
 
@hakre Why does ControllerDispatch depend on the concrete DispatchableControllerDependency? Why not on an interface for that class?
@JohnP Not sure, it comes up from time to time...
 
ah cool
 
2:27 PM
Now that's what I call Network Attached Storage...
 
@ircmaxell Extract the interface from that class if you need one. Also the factory should be a decorator for getController(), so the if can move out of that and you can inject the controller interface directly.
 
@hakre Well, even more reason to typehint on an interface then :-D
 
@ircmaxell Is that an extension cord?
 
Sure, this was just for showing the idea for a dispatcher with objec/method based transaction scripts that are injectable.
@edorian: Nice talk.
 
@Bracketworks ethernet
@hakre fair enough
 
2:34 PM
@ircmaxell Herp. Attached indeed.
 
:-D
 
@Bracketworks Out of curiosity: What did you think about in regards to that? So did you just notice your current practice or did you take anything said there as advice or somthing. I didn't really understand I guess :)
@hakre Thanks
 
@edorian Actually, I was in the midst of writing a ranting inquiry to that end :D
Basically, I find that I'm a reasonably good programmer, I don't over-document, as I find that I can name things reasonably well and succinctly enough that they self-document. My classes don't typically explode, and I don't commit any of the STUPID design anti-pattern/anti-behaviors
However, I'm always at a loss for placing things
Its like I need an organizer over my shoulder saying "Nice [enter-definition], that should go in namespace X, because it is a comsumer/implementation/extension of Y"
 
@ircmaxell :)
@Bracketworks If you find one ask him if he takes multiple clients
 
:-D
 
2:46 PM
Recognizing what things actually are and what they abstract is something I find really hard
 
@edorian I think we can pool together enough funding to get one :)
My major problem is really just as I sorta said; I'm always going "This is a consumer of X, and an implementation of Y, so it goes [no-answer]"
I've perused PSR-0, and any other pseudo-standard documentation offered up by framework development communities, etc., but nothing really hits the nail on the head of addressing a rule-of-thumb
I've explored other languages, and their standards (.NET especially) but I can't port over the logic in some cases (seemingly)
Another factor that's exacerbating the issue, is I've abandoned the use of static container classes, for grouping related methods with no prospect of being associated with an instance. Now I have a batch of core-extending functions, but have no idea where to place them and in what way I should manage the dependencies associated with them from my other legitimately OOP classes, or application modules.
 
As I heard someone say today in a nice video "A real banking system doesn't have a SavingAccount object" 'putting things in the right place' got a even a lot harder :)
 
Hola all
 
yeah, that's true...
 
It certainly is my bane of application development, with no foreseeable solution.
 
2:54 PM
@Bracketworks Well there always is a little "Util" creep in php as you don't have string objects for example and one doesn't want to break down everything into the smallest pieces all the time so we have some places with "helper" stuff we can't get really rid off.
(and say something to the last point)
 
@Bracketworks There is no solution. blog.ircmaxell.com/2011/03/…
 
My head was just going that better not be that darn good enough post he always pulls out when he doesn't have a solution
 
@edorian HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
 
And then I was laughing because well.. its right :)
 
@edorian Exactly, the "Util" creep has gotten me turning OCD, especially after navigating my codebase while watching your presentation segment on the subject.
lol @ircmaxell I've read it :)
 
2:58 PM
and to be honest: We need some dumping places for missing procedural stuff .. at least from looking at facebooks sources they have found "Good enough" places to put them
 
@edorian That's my point. We could design until the cows come home, but at the end of the day we have a job to do...
 
@edorian Where is that with respect to their system?
 
@Bracketworks I couldn't find the source link just now but they have some "core.inc.php" with +10 functions that why just require in the bootstrap
 
I'm content having a Utilities namespace which contains either "helpers" (that won't ever need to be polymorphically extended) or data-type related code (for instance, code to array_map an iterator)...
 
And thats really stuff hat doesn't have a place anywhere :)
 
3:01 PM
@ircmaxell That's what I've sort of resolved to at this time; I've got my root package namespace, and subsequent String, Set, Path, Callback, etc., namespaces with functions
 
@ircmaxell Not really. We designed the 'full blown' solution, saw that is was to complex and wasteful to build and choose another implementation knowing why we did it.
 
So like \Package\Callback\call_by_name()
 
@edorian Well, that too...
 
@ircmaxell We both mean the same things as far a i can tell :)
designed as "in our heads to a level here it wasn't feasible enough to go on"
A nice (last resport) indicator for that is "Well now we need a string class"
 
@edorian From different sides. I was from the initial write, you were from the "throw away and simplify)
 
3:04 PM
@edorian Well PHP does need a string class, for more than a few reasons. Thankfully SplString is floating around somewhere, but as I've been led to understand, PHP's object managing codebase in Zend isn't optimized for dealing with zillions of scalar-type objects.
 
I'm just throwing thoughts away not stuff I wrote
 
morning
 
@Bracketworks There is no real SplString.. and yes we one.. and yes this is [why we can have nice things|why we are not java]
But the point is that PHP would need one. Not my project.. not even my base framework
@NikiC Students envy
 
@edorian huh?
 
@edorian Fair enough, we've made due this long, but despite coming from a loosely typed programming background, and having much less experience working on a strongly typed environment, I can certainly see the benefits when you practice design-by-contract, etc.
 
3:07 PM
@NikiC It's 16:00 in berlin! I want that to be my "morning" too
 
@edorian Yeah, just returned from school ^^
 
Morning here too @NikiC :)
 
@edorian Interpret it as me saying "morning" only to @irc as it is morning over there ^^ evening to you @edorian :P
 
@NikiC :-D
 
@ircmaxell :)
 
3:09 PM
@Bracketworks I also want autocasting literal type hints and a lot of other java like stuff as for me PHP is a java on the outside and cool/fast/dynamic on the inside (function bodies). but thats just me :)
 
@edorian I want autoboxing
 
@edorian You might consider actually moving to Java ^^ I don't think that it's much different from PHP ^^
Though I agree that scalar typehints implemented sanely castingly would really be nice
 
the problem is that the server i am trying to connect with shh2_connect
is FreeBsD and supports only keyboard interactive authentication..Libssh2 package doesn't support this method
How can i solve this?
 
@NikiC Exactly, this isn't Java, but support for things that help us develop sensible application APIs would be nice.
 
@NikiC Tried hat. Spend all the time I now spend building basic classes why writing "StringBuilder stringBuilder = new StringBuilder();" everywhere and having way to ugly function bodies.. also iteration is to verbose :P
 
3:11 PM
@user726730 huh? you don't want any authentication other than public key.
 
(Mostly joking... and yes I don't need string builders on modern java.. hush)
 
@NikiC ssh2_auth_password($connection, "username", "password")
to a lenny system works well
 
doesn't work into Freebsd
 
Everytime I'm sick of PHP's loose, devil-may-care attitude on things, I drop down to C for a few minutes and try to write a part of whatever method body I was working on. I have a cigarette and smile when I get back to PHP
 
3:13 PM
@Gordon Currently watching it. Really great
 
@user726730 Ah, that's some PHP function ^^ I'll stay with my opinion, that you shouldn't auth any other way but using public key ;)
 
nice
 
So am I late in noticing that typing 'what is my ip' in Google actually answers my question? (shows the IP directly)
or is this a new thing...
 
@NikiC so what's the right command?
 
@user726730 no idea, sorry :P (didn't even know you could do that in php)
 
3:15 PM
@JohnP You can ask it an awful lot now (with direct response)
 
yeah, I've noticed casts and 'best guesses'
 
@JohnP you're late. I always use that to check whether the vpn connection worked out :)
 
@NikiC if you see chat history i wrote yesterday 5 hours with a guy trying to install the package
 
I was working on geolocation and just tried it to find that geoip site :D
 
can anyone recommend a good book for ubuntu strictly focusing on server administration
 
3:16 PM
it's probably got a lot more direct results in the US and Europe
 
@JohnMerlino ubunutu and server? those two things don't go together imho
 
basically i just want something that doesnt go into gui interface like click start menu, etc
i got pocket reference
but its not what i thought it would be
 
@JohnMerlino Pretty much anything dealing with Debian server administration will be applicable to Ubuntu.
 
> is also a nice classname, StuffyStuffStuff btw
 
@hakre I lol'd
 
3:23 PM
The vid gordon linked is somehow speaking to me.. getting though the first 20 minutes already look over an hour with pausing thinking disussing and rewinding. yay
 
@JohnMerlino You could just get a general Linux server administration book. Doesn't change that much between distros. What kind of server administration do you want to do? If it's just Apache, get an Apache book.
@JohnMerlino as @NikiC suggested, CentOS or Debian might be more recommended than Ubuntu for server administration :)
 
@edorian Which video is that?
 
problem I have when I go back between centos and ubuntu, there are significant differences
 
@NikiC Huh? Currently I have one suse vserver box, but I wanted to replace it with ubuntu for better PHP support. Bad idea?
 
@hakre I'm curious what the problem is, too. I've administered Ubuntu servers before without issue.
 
3:36 PM
Evening!
@NikiC hoi :)
 
Hi there ;)
 
25 mins ago, by Gordon
interesting too: http://www.infoq.com/interviews/coplien-martin-tdd
@Bracketworks
 
@hakre Hello!
 
can one of you gents give me your IP and the city/country you're in? If you're network is secure
I'm testing some geolocation code
 
IP: 82.67.148.197 Location: you tell me :p
 
3:43 PM
@BenjaminBrizzi hah, according to this database I'm using, it says Paris, France
close? or no cigar?
 
That's it ^^
 
awesome, I can assume it's ok then
@BenjaminBrizzi better delete that post now, just in case someone uses it to sniff your network :P
 
lol ok
 
:D
 
@hakre Could you suggest what would be the goodway to set framefork/application settings? I'm talking about those which come in settings file usually. For now I just convert settings into array and iterate over them. But to do that I need to hardcode indexes and I don't know how good approach this is. Maybe there's a better or more correct way to do that?
 
3:47 PM
Let me give you an example of difference between centos and ubuntu. On ubuntu, to check if mod_proxy is loaded, you cd /etc/apache2/mods-enabled and ls proxy*. Now in centos, I nanoed into httpd.conf and noticed the LoadModule directives but no mod_proxy, so is that the way to determine whethe rmod_proxy is loadeds in centos?
 
Thanks @edorian
 
@JohnP I don't think my network has any ports open to the outside but just in case... how can I delete my post? Flag it for moderation?
 
@BenjaminBrizzi You can't after 3 minutes and I wouldn't bother to flag it :)
 
$reflect_param->isDefaultValueAvailable() -- verbosity for the win!
 
@BenjaminBrizzi ahh, the time limit has passed :/ you can flag a mod and ask him to remove if you really want. If you're not on a static IP it's just easier to restart your router :D
 
3:51 PM
@edorian It's my company's IP so I'll blame you if we get hacked :P
 
posted on January 04, 2012 by Gareth Heyes

 
@BenjaminBrizzi You are doing PHP chances are it's 'your' fault anyways :)
 
Anyways every single site I visit has my IP so it's not like it's a valuable secret data.
 
extremetech.com/computing/… - Google, Amazon, Facebook, and Twitter considering “nuclear option” to protest SOPA
 
and about 1.3trillion ad provider you never heard of
 
3:54 PM
I wonder whether it will actually come to that
 
> According to Markham Erickson, head of the NetCoalition trade association
Does anyone actually know that guy/corp is is that just a "According to my Cristal ball"
 
All the Google results indicate they are a sort of lobby group for these companies
Although I'd be surprised if it actually came to that. That's a massive step.
I'm also wondering whether any of the lawmakers actually use and understand the Internet
 
"Twitter is down" - "Again?" - "No SOPA" - "Is that their new failwhale?"
 
@Eugene Where is the hardcoding you want to get rid of? In the config/ini file, or with the array?
 
heh, yeah that would be something. Haven't seen the failwhale in a while. They've been stable the last few months
 
4:03 PM
@hakre With the array. setSettings( array $settings )
 
@Eugene If the hardcoding problem stems from isset($config[$key]) all over the place, you can always use php.net/manual/en/function.array-replace-recursive.php to recursively set defaults. The defaults will negate the need to isset() for most circumstances.
 
@Bracketworks No. Nothing like that. In settings there are different parts. For example settings for each environment. Primary settings, that for example tell which theme application can use, what version of framework it is currently, etc.
 
@Eugene Ah, I conquered that problem by creating a Context object for a wacky framework I'm working on. All calls are dispatched through a context, contexts nest and create an execution tree. When data is requested from a context, it pulls it recursively going up the tree (if it doesn't exist in the current context, check parent, repeat) and I set all "framework" settings in the root context.
That way, they can easily be overridden elsewhere in the application, and are treated like arbitrary data so there's no need for a special interface to them.
 
@Eugene So you want to pick different settings based on a environment-parameter or you want to fetch the file structure?
You could just write a PHP array in the config file.
and load it into local scope
with a simple include.
 
$config = (array) include('config.php')
 
4:11 PM
that would require a return statement inside the config.php
I would not do that, but more go with the convention how the variable is named. But that's taste probably.
 
@hakre Do op-code caching mechanisms typically play well with includes, for such a purpose?
 
if you're using an opcode cache, store the config inside shared memory once it has been read.
so to spare loading it from disk later on.
I mean each start of your app needs configuration, so place it where it's accessible.
 
Ah, you want to recursively merge the config file data with an pre-initialized array probably.
 
@hakre Again no. :)
 
4:16 PM
But?
 
@Eugene What exactly are you trying to change?
 
The settings from the all environment should go into all environments I suppose.
 
@hakre You see how keys are hardcoded. Someone might call the environment just "dev", "test", etc. I wanted, that to be flexible.
 
use default: instead of case 'this':or case 'that':
default: is the default case in case no other case matched.
 
@hakre I think we are talking about different things. I'm thinking at the moment how to orginize settings better and more flexible at the same time. Don't like those deep foreach calls and cases with hardcoded indexes.
 
4:20 PM
@Eugene hoi!
@hakre Neither Suse nor Ubuntu is what you would call a server OS ^^ Those are for desktops imho.
 
@Eugene okay. but you have not shared much of that class. So it's hard to say.
Also you should add an exemplary config file
 
hello world
 
Currently engaged in trolling a scammer ^_^
 
(or at least part of it)
 
@Eugene I know you've mentioned that the defaults aspect is not a solution, however it appears that it may in a way be. By merging a set of "defaults" you can reliably query the array for values anywhere thereafter. You can also permit the flexible naming conventions you want, so whenever a new "environment" is created the defaults are merged under whatever settings that environment has/sets.
 
4:23 PM
He just sent me an authentic looking paypal transaction email from 'direct_pay.pal@usa.com'
@g0dl3ss hello
 
@hakre Emmm. Okey, will do that later. It's just work in progress, so didn't want to post it everywhere just yet. Configs are in two formats at the moment YAML and XML. Have to go now. Will appear later. :)
 
first time in chat, does any1 know how to write a php construct inside a php string?
Damn it's hard to make a question to look like i'm not looking for help.
 
@g0dl3ss Care to reword that?
 
what's a PHP construct?
 
i'm making a string with php($html = <<<HTMLshit)
and it works but i'd like to put some foreach and some while constructs here and there
those don't seem to work
i could just echo all the stuff but it's a lot of code and would prefer to use a string instead
 
4:30 PM
@g0dl3ss Oh, you mean you'll need to eval() the string after
 
uhm brb php manual :D
cool "The eval() language construct is very dangerous" nice start
uhm doesn't look like what i was looking for but thanks for the help, i'll post a more detailed question :)
 
@g0dl3ss It certainly can be; and I doubt you'll want to do that "If eval() is the answer, you're not asking the right question" (or something like that)
 
@g0dl3ss I added that note :P
 
@g0dl3ss As far as I know you can't use loops in heredoc/nowdoc. You would need to break up your HTML into fragments that can have the loop outside the heredoc, get all the data into variables you can use or don't use heredoc/nowdoc
 
and that was the first solution i thought about
breaking up the string each time i need a foreach or whatever but i thought there was a way
i guess there isn't a way
 
4:38 PM
ob_start(); ..... $html = ob_get_clean();
 
@hakre (beat me to it :P)
 
ob_start();
?><html><?php foreach() .... ?></html><?php
$html = ob_get_clean();
No heredoc, but just PHP tags.
 
ahh, yes more like a template
 
nope cause the moment i type ?> into the string a bunny cries
 
@g0dl3ss Why would that be?
 
4:41 PM
oh ye well in that way i shouldn't use heredoc but the problem is that all that html must be stored into a variable(with ob_get_clean(); ) and as far as i know ob_start(); only stores echoed stuff
anything outside the php tags shouldn't be store by ob_start()/ob_get_clean()
that's why i needed a string
(or echo)
 
@g0dl3ss What's wrong with echo?
 
it's a lot of code
and i'm lazy
:(
 
@g0dl3ss wrong.
 
yeh using a string i should just copy past the html code within the string but echoing it means i need to echo "html"; every row
@hakre about what
 
4:47 PM
@g0dl3ss I'm not sure you understand how ob_start() works :)
 
doesn't it gather all the echoed stuff and then store it into variable with ob_get_clean() ?
 
@g0dl3ss If you include an HTML file with ob_start() and ob_get_clean() around it all the HTML, with PHP in that HTML being executed, will be returned by ob_get_clean()
 
uhm will try that out
 
@g0dl3ss Check my answer here, it's sort of on the same path stackoverflow.com/a/8376780/409279
It pretty much summarizes what's been discussed as a solution here so far
 
blog.ircmaxell.com/2012/01/microphp-fallacy.html @NikiC and @edorian <-- that's for you (and anyone else)
 
4:52 PM
@charles that workings thanks
*that's
*working
 
@Bracketworks sidenote: EXTR_SKIP should be EXTR_OVERRIDE
 
@g0dl3ss Thank @hakre. I just parroted his earlier comments.
 
thanks to both of you then :)
 
Then again: Congrats on finding the one use for extract that is not completely horrid :)
@ircmaxell judging from my twitter stream that post revived way to much attention anyways .. let's see
 
@edorian Exactly why I wrote that
 
4:58 PM
@hakre Okey, I'm back. What else would you like to see from that class?
 
@ircmaxell Nice post. I really like the picture of the hammers. Really "drives" your point home
 
@hakre Anything certain?
 
Oh, I feel so wrong for that pun. Never again
 

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