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12:02 AM
actually, looking back at Fortran history, FUNCTION was added earlier than I thought.
So it doesn't qualify.
 
@StephenCanon Ah. Just wondering, because it seems like a trivial optimization every function could make.
Of course, the tricky part is the word "seems".
 
You don't need the language to be defined that way in order for a compiler to avoid copying.
A compiler could implement returns as though they were output parameters without issue.
 
Right, I'm saying to mandate it as a language requirement.
 
languages tend not to mandate ABIs
they don't like to make assumptions about hardware if they can avoid it.
 
Some languages, anyway. :) Mandating tends to simplify things.
 
12:09 AM
If I want to return a struct of 8 doubles, and I happen to be running on a machine with 64-byte vector registers, it could likely be fastest to return the result in register.
Instead of storing to an output parameter.
 
@StephenCanon So the compiler could optimize the other way, right?
 
That is, instead of going from non-return-parameter to return-parameter, as things are done now, we can go the other way.
 
At least for C and C++, the language committees seem to have decided that they don't want to define ABI decisions.
Mostly because those languages are used on such a diversity of hardware, and there is no portable notion of what makes for a good ABI.
 
Yeah.
 
1:12 AM
-1
Q: ID mode problem in MFC

MissProblem: I am using Visual studio 2010 MFC c++.. facing this problem I need actual menus that i naked, but i am in ID mode.. and when i click on any ID mode menu.. i received the message provided in the above link and when i run the project.. it shows no error but even then MFC is not runni...

Any one can help me ?
 
1:23 AM
-1
Q: ID mode problem in MFC

MissProblem: I am using Visual studio 2010 MFC c++.. facing this problem I need actual menus that i naked, but i am in edit ID mode by mistake how can i leave edit mode.. and when i click on any edit ID mode menu.. i received the message provided in the above link and when i run the project.. i...

 
Please stop spamming your question. Those who can help will do so.
 
@Gman well i am facing the problem thats'y i posted here
 
@Miss Yes, you only need to do so once, if at all. This place is for chatting, the main site is for problem solving, so try to keep it there.
 
well i just posted the link here so you people can through light and answer me
you can see above, @sbi, also post a question link here
so i also posted my question thats it
anyways if you say then next time i will try to avoid by posting the questions here
ok thanks
 
2:00 AM
so I don't really understand templates. Anyone want to elaborate?
 
Templates are a huge part of C++, you aren't going to learn them in a chat room or online. Unless you have a specific question you'd like to ask, you should get a good C++ book.
6
 
Oh alright, I guess I mistook the purpose of this lounge.
Well, I do have a specific question, actually.
I'm coding a game in C++, and I was asking for advice on why my program was segfaulting. It turns out, when I was passing around the "world" object (an object made up of 2000x2000 Tiles, which are small objects with icon and size), I wasn't passing by reference.
So a copy was made everytime I passed it?
I just used func(world) instead of func(&world)
Everyone said I was recreating the object everytime I accessed it outside of the function I created it in.
 
Yes. But you probably don't want to pass an address, either, but by reference. Making copies shouldn't cause segfaults, either.
 
Well, I was reading, and I read somewhere that the stack would be too small for such a large 2d array.
So I would have to declare it globally, or dynamically allocate it. I ended up using a 2d vector. Still, I can't make it large though. When you say pass by reference, do you mean func(world*) on call?
 
@Evan: No. A reference is a specific thing in C++, like void foo(int&);. What you have is a pointer, which is still by-value, but informally called "by reference" in C.
As for your large data size, you might try a deque instead. It allocates in chunks (a sort of array of arrays), so it won't need to allocate contiguous memory for your entire array.
 
2:11 AM
Oh, hmm. I'll look into this deque. Thanks for all of the help!
 
I learned templates online, it's doable. :P
 
It's really weird for me to think about... like lambda functions.
 
@PiotrLegnica I learned quite nearly everything I know about C++ online. :P But it could have been done much more efficiently with books. :)
 
2:24 AM
Now that I've managed to get both Jenkins and Buildbot into usable state, I can say Buildbot's configuration is cleaner. Python > XML/dozens of webforms, I guess.
(Plus, killing the Tomcat instance is such a relief for my poor server).
He's all like "Wee, no more Java!"
 
@Miss You really need to work at clarifying the question -- I'm not at all sure what you're trying to ask or what help you need.
 
 
2 hours later…
4:28 AM
@jerryCoffin, i can't excess the menus...thats a problem
and there is no error in my project but even then MFC is not running...
there are two problems with my question..
can you tell me how to get rid from Edit ID mode ?
thats a main problem
you can see in the link that i am in Edit ID mode
i want to escape from that
@JerryCoffin: i am trying to solve this problem.
and i hope i will achieve my target..
see you latter... bye
 
Als
4:43 AM
Hey All
@sbi, @DavidRodríguezdribeas: Sorry guys, I had already moved and missed out on the La Resistance talk, but i basically agree with @sbi's quote on the same.
 
4:59 AM
I'm not ever sure what "edit ID mode" is, not to mention how to escape from it. The screen shot you've shown doesn't look particularly familiar to me...
 
5:19 AM
@GMan I learned practically everything I know about templates from litb. Well, him and C++ Templates.
 
@JamesMcNellis Ha, true.
 
5:33 AM
@jerryCoffin: hm okok
@jerryCoffin: did you ever read this book
i am not sure that this book is MFC c++ for image processing..
anyways i hope i will find the problem in that question.
ok see you latter... bye
 
 
2 hours later…
7:44 AM
@JamesMcNellis So basically there are three options out there: books, internet, a humanoid robot from the future that tries to disguise itself as a German citizen...
3
I started templates with the basics from a book, which left me being able to write a bad vector implementation, then I read bits and pieces in the internet. Modern C++ Design was the big step, and from then on The standard (and bits and pieces from litb :))
 
8:07 AM
Good morning all!!
 
sbi
@Tony Good morning? Well, it's a day...
 
@sbi TGIF
@sbi how's the debugging going?
 
sbi
@Tony I'm hammering at it. I got an extensive log file now to look at. Unfortunately, while it shows that things go amiss, it doesn't give me a clue as to why they do that. Frustrating as hell.
 
Xeo
Mornin' by the way
@sbi Maybe those things just hate grumpy old men? :P
 
8:23 AM
@sbi I can imagine the sheer frustration
 
sbi
@Xeo Then those things just spoiled a (however marginal) chance of having a not grumpy old man to deal with. Anyway, it looks like I'm after something there. I'm debugging furiously...
 
@Xeo morning! how's you today?
 
8:48 AM
can anybody tell me how returning the reference to the int is a valid thing to do:
struct S {
S(int i): I(i) { }
int& v() { return I; }
private:
int I;
};
 
Xeo
@Tony looks fine to me
 
@Xeo it probably is, but I thought that returning a reference to a private data member was never a smart thing to do, what if the S goes out of scope before the returned value of v() to some other variable ?
int v; {S s(2); v = s.v(); .... } // S out of scope here, int v still exists? what happens to it's assigned value?
 
Xeo
it's like iterators, the user needs to make sure they stay valid
 
@Xeo ah ok
 
Xeo
of course the reference is invalid
no, wait
you're saving the return in an int v, a non reference, so it gets copied and v is still valid
if you'd have int& v, it wouldn't be valid anymore
 
8:54 AM
@Xeo oh yes, thx for reminding that it's copied in this case, forgot :(
 
sbi
Well, I think I nailed the bug. At least I've found something going wrong in a certain timing situation, which seems to be the one on the test machine, while it's not the case on mine: I have a file system watcher setup, and it seems it doesn't guarantee that you will get a "file added" event before a "file changed" event. I thought I can cope with them not coming in the logical order, but under certain circumstances it seems I screwed it. <sigh/>
Now all I need to do is pray while I a dozen test cycles run. If it doesn't occur until the evening, there's a pretty good chance I fixed it.
 
Xeo
That's the worst kind of bug - the nearly random ones
 
@Xeo worse than the truly random ones?
 
@jalf the truly random one's are the most elusive and hard to find.... welcome to threading... LOL
 
Xeo
@jalf With the nearly random ones, you know you're there, you just don't know when you'll encounter them again. The random ones you see once, think "was that a bug?" and move one most of the time, because you just can't reproduce it
 
8:58 AM
but does that make them preferable over the nearly random ones? ;)
 
@jalf prob not, at least not where I live :)
 
Xeo
@jalf True enough, maybe you can rate them equal
 
can one buy a printed version of the standard? (just curious)
 
@Xeo I used to have a dog, that when did something wrong and was getting an earful would cover her eyes with the paw... sadly for her, covering the eyes did not take the punishment away, as closing the bug as non-reproducible does not make it go away
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas Valid point! Ignoring something does not make it go away!
 
9:05 AM
On returning an int&, that is not wrong from the language point of view, but it does say something about the OO-ness of the design.
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas I got that out of the C++0x FDIS
 
@Tony yup, from ISO directly or from the various national bodies, iirc
 
@jalf Cool :)
 
@Tony I think so, anyway. Some of them might only have it in pdf form, and afaik, price varies a lot depending on where you look :)
 
@Xeo We don't close bugs as not-reproducible unless we can find a sensible explanation of the sequence of events that lead to the seen effect and works as defined. I spent two days on a bug that was seen in the field that was actually a misconfiguration, but until I was able to convince the engineer that had seen it of what was wrong at that time, I was not able to close it.
 
9:08 AM
@jalf oh wow
 
@Tony I bought the PDF version of C++03, and then printed. Only to find out that after almost one year I had only used the paper version during the first two weeks. I left the paper version in Spain when I moved over, pdfs are easier to browse (you can actually search!)
I tried to convert the standard to use in a kindle, but the converter messes up really bad with the formating of the standard, and it becomes unreadable.
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas Oh oK
 
@Tony the c++0x spec even has hyperlinks and stuff in the pdf, which helps a lot too
iirc, earlier versions didn't
 
@jalf Yea I noticed
 
@jalf Yes, a great improvement over the ANSI copy of C++0x I have
 
9:19 AM
@Tony Wiley (sp?) and the british standard organisation have published the C and C++ standard incorporating the TC valid at the time of publication. (Prices were around 50 euros at that time).
 
@AProgrammer thx :)
 
9:38 AM
good evening..!!
 
@Miss It's not yet noon :)
 
sbi
@AProgrammer Yeah, this used to be the cheapest printed version available. You can't electronically search it, though. :)
 
@sbi well, no, cause it's print :p
@AProgrammer I agree, cuz I'm very hungry right now
 
10:14 AM
Hmm, seen this?
 
@jalf what about it?
 
nothing, I just thought it was an interesting read :)
 
@jalf oh ok :)
 
sbi
@jalf I hadn't seen it, but I wholeheartedly agree with it.
 
10:30 AM
interesting question
2
Q: Are memory leaks possible in managed environments like .NET?

sharptoothIn C++ it is easily possible to have a permanent memory leak - just allocate memory and don't release it: new char; //permanent memory leak guaranteed and that memory stays allocated for the lifetime of the heap (usually the same as program runtime duration). Is the same (a case that will lea...

 
classically no. If a memory leak is defined as unreferenced memory blocks, well thats exactly how memory is free'd in GC.
A more useful definition of a memory leak would be any application that has an unbound growth of committed memory (referenced or not) over time.
And its quite possible to create a growable array of references to objects, and forget to flush stale entries.
 
@ChrisBecke what about a growing dataset of valid data, that doesn't constitute a memory leak?
 
@Tony that is admittedly, just a case of... non scalable design. not quite a memory leak per se.
 
@ChrisBecke Yea
 
I have seen some authors calling memory no longer used but still referenced memory leaks in managed languages. I don't quite the idea of it, since it has not leaked, it is just unnecessarily being held longer than usual. But you will find discussions around that if you read enough about GC.
 
10:44 AM
in which case you could only really define a memory leak as a relevent potential artifact of software that performs logically distinct transactions.
as long as the growth incurred processing transactions is bound, there is no memory leak.
if the algorithm in a transaction has an unbound usage, thats something else
 
As posed,
> Is the same (a case that will lead to a specific unreferenced object never been released while memory management mechanisms are working properly) possible in a C# program?
I'd say the answer is "no".
Barring CLR bugs.
And unsafe blocks.
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas I agree. Like it or not, some use "memory leak" to refer to that kind of cases. I'd say it's technically not a leak, but that's just yet another one of those "we use the same word to refer to two different things, and this leads us to two different conclusions even though there's no actual disagreement" discussions
 
11:16 AM
@jalf I'd say that technically it depends on the precise definition you are using and -- that's not a technical POV -- people are using the definition the most inline with their prejudice. What is important is that the mantra "you don't have to pay attention to memory management" is false because of such situations, what ever the label you give it.
 
Yep, but if we don't keep in mind that the person we're talking to is using a different definition, we're likely to waste a lot of time on misunderstandings. ;) Arguing over "can I create memory leaks in .NET or not" is just dumb, when both sides agree on the correct answer (you can have "hidden" or "forgotten" references preventing something from being GC'ed, but the GC will always be able to find completely unreferenced memory)
 
what's up humans?
 
11:32 AM
@jalf, I think we are in violent agreement. Paying too much attention to the terms instead of the meaning is not something you want to do if you are sincere. Now, playing tricks with definitions is one way to socially "win" an argument you are loosing technically.
 
Interesting, Asia just ran out of ip addresses
 
On the other side, paying attention to the definition you are using and the one the other are using is a way to remove misunderstanding and reach consensus.
 
Given the rather loose definition here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_leak
holding onto references to "dead" objects, thus preventing the memory being reclaimed, is just as much a memory leak, as loosing the references in a non GC language.
 
@ChrisBecke wikipedia what do you expect?
@jalf hahah I don't think the day will ever come where i will memorize an IPv6 address though... lol
 
@Tony I'm better than you. I've memorized ::1
It was easier than to memorize 127.0.0.1
 
11:40 AM
@Tony I expect a reasonable, crowd sourced, definition of the phrase "memory leak". It really is the most authoritative source here, dictionary.com and other dictionaries are not yielding anything.
 
@AProgrammer You are better then me in that respect :)
 
@ChrisBecke I didn't realize "authoritative" was a gradient. I thought something was either authoritative or it wasn't
So Wikipedia is slightly authoritative?
 
It does make me slightly concerned, when words are in use in a profession, with a particular technical meaning in that profession, how DO you know that any two members of the profession actually have the same understanding of the word.
 
@ChrisBecke you don't. Were you here for our discussion about what defines a programming language? ;)
 
@ChrisBecke Wikipedia is not authorative by any measure.... it's merely a collection of "facts" gathered from other places.
 
11:43 AM
well, im frequently being bashed for my lack of understanding of generic vs meta programming
vs whatever. sbi loves to point my ignorance out
 
@ChrisBecke Give a definition if it is pertinent. Memory leak is not the only word used differently by different people.
 
and I can't deny it.
a lack of formal training in c++ has made me somewhat prone to referring to (for example) a class with (only) virtual methods as a virtual class.
 
Even words which have historically a good definition have seen their meaning drifts in different context (polymorphism for instance)
 
whereas (as I am often corrected) it should be called an abstract class.
 
@ChrisBecke I'm not sure exactly what the difference is either. Or rather, I don't think there's as clear a separation between them as a lot of people like to think
 
11:45 AM
so, on that basis we should really vote to close stackoverflow.com/questions/5675349/…
 
because it uses an underspecified word? You might as well close all of SO then ;)
 
as it can only really be an attempt to generate inflamatory discussion on the basis of a lack of "official" source for the defenition of what constitutes a "memory leak"
 
I don't think so. @sharptooth is fairly specific about what kind of memory leak he's referring to
 
@ChrisBecke I don't think so. The question clearly states what it means with the usage of the term.
 
Just most of the answers don't bother to read it closely
 
11:47 AM
@jalf perhaps more SO questions do deserve to be closed on the basis that the question hinges on the defintion of a word that is not, actually, well defined in any authoratative source
then he has already answered his own question, and it deserves, (Again) to be closed on that basis.
 
@ChrisBecke but once again, we don't even have a strict, authoritative definition of the term "programming language". Like I said, you're going to have to close all of SO if you follow this logic through :)
 
stack overflow can exist by community consensus.
 
@jalf but we do have a definition of "language" and "programming" no?
 
and there are non jargon definitions of "programming language" in various dictionaries.
 
@ChrisBecke I'll perhaps not help you: Generic programming is making use of parametric polymorphism. Meta-programming is writing code to generate code instead of writing directly the final code. In C++, both can be done using templates -- but templates allows things which are outside generic programming, and that's what which enable them as a meta-programming tool.
 
11:52 AM
or at least the two component words
 
@Tony OutOfMemoryExceptions are possible
 
@Tony Last time we tried there wasn't a consensus.
 
@AProgrammer lol. thanks.
 
@Nils don't see how that is related?
@AProgrammer oh I see, so there's no definition anyone here could agree upon.... wow
 
Yeah it's not that you absolutely don't have to care about memory management..
 
11:54 AM
but, to return to the question under question... he asks
Are memory leaks possible in managed environments like .NET?
and then proceeds to define "memory leaks" as the non release of unreferenced objects.
which reduces his question to
Are (the non release of unreferenced objects) possible in (environments that release unreferenced objects) like .NET?
 
Does the .NET garbage collector work as advertised?
 
which, no matter which way you slice it, is a trolling question.
 
0
Q: detecting the static objects in static background

MissProblem statement: How can we identify the static objects in static background based on pixel intensity distribution? that mean extract the background and foreground from a static image or picture.? How could is this possible? Please give me your views

 
@Gman in programming in general, a reference is a specific thing: a value that refers to a data item stored in the programs memory, and which is dereferenced to allow indirect access to the data. C++ pointers, and references, are thus both references.
 
@Tony do we? I'm not so sure on the latter, at least.
@ChrisBecke No, it's simply a "are there any exceptions that I am unaware of" question
 
12:02 PM
@jalf do we what?
 
@Tony have agreement on a definition of "programming"
As @AProgrammer mentions, there wasn't one last time we discussed it here
 
@jalf not sure, I was told that there was no consensus when a discussion was held
 
in particular, am I programming if I write HTML or SQL code? What about LaTeX?
and if not, why not, exactly?
 
sbi
30 mins ago, by jalf
Interesting, Asia just ran out of ip addresses
@jalf Of course, this comes totally unexpected.
20 mins ago, by Chris Becke
vs whatever. sbi loves to point my ignorance out
 
@jalf are you programming if you ask wolfram alpha to compute something for you using a natural language command?
 
sbi
12:04 PM
FWIW, I mostly agree with what you expect from Wikipedia, and also with your sentiment regarding terms having different meaning for lay men and technicians.
@ChrisBecke Only if you state it as facts, which you haven't done for a while now. (You hadn't though that, just because you didn't properly address me while I was out for lunch, you could slip that one by me, had you?)
FWIW, I mostly agree with what you expect from Wikipedia, and also with your sentiment regarding terms having different meaning for lay men and technicians.
20 mins ago, by Chris Becke
a lack of formal training in c++ has made me somewhat prone to referring to (for example) a class with (only) virtual methods as a virtual class.
20 mins ago, by Chris Becke
whereas (as I am often corrected) it should be called an abstract class.
@ChrisBecke Actually, that's wrong. And abstract class is one with at least one pure virtual member functions.
@AProgrammer Basically, that's generic Programming vs. Generative Programming. :)
 
@sbi I quite expected you to return :)
@sbi see, I can't even get that right.
 
sbi
@ChrisBecke And I have no problem with that. I make mistakes, too, and expect others to correct me.
 
I did of course mean pure virtual, but just said virtual.
mostly for the reasons already enumerated.
:P
 
sbi
@ChrisBecke Ah, Ok.
 
@sbi never misses a line said about him, no hiding from some it seems :p
 
12:07 PM
and I make sure to catch up on anything said about me in my absence too :P
at least, with 15 odd years of c with objects under my belt, I can make an effort to correct my terminology.
even so, I'm still inclined to build a time machine and have Stepanov and Stroustrup assasinated in the past before they can inflict this damage.
{Not that I can't also find retroactive fault with the authors of the C standard. who actually thought that having a set of integer types with such loosely defined relationships was actually a good idea?}
 
@ChrisBecke I dunno. I won't claim to know what "programming" is or isn't. But I can see how you could consider it to be programming :)
 
@ChrisBecke To me they are not, while they share the symptoms: memory is not available for use, there is a huge inherent difference: in one case there is nothing that the program can do to recover, while in the other it can release the references to the dead objects. That is, in one case the error is irrecoverable, while in the other it is not.
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas In both cases, the only way to release the memory is to rewrite the code to perform the explicit release.
Just because the GC can see references to the "leaked" variables, doesn't mean that the program still has code that can see the references to release them.
 
Not really, that is, you can hold to a dead object for a few minutes until some condition holds, and recover from it. That is, the memory can get exhausted due to that condition temporarily. In the first case, the condition is irrecoverable: once you leak a pointer in C you have lost that memory forever.
As a different example, in some platforms, like Symbian, if you leak a pointer in C++ (or their version of it) that memory will no longer be available at all until you reboot the system, while if you leaked that memory in a Java application, closing the application would recover the memory for all other applications to use, even if there is no change in the actual code
 
@sbi I should have mentionned that I tend to consider meta-programming as a synonym for generative programming. I'd accept to restraint the use of meta-programming to when it stay in the same language (for a sufficently wide definition of language, C, PL/1 and lisp macros fill the bill more me).
 
sbi
12:19 PM
@AProgrammer Never you mind, I was just trying to increase the confusion. :)
 
It is like throwing your watch to the bin in your office or throwing it through the window to the river. You can empty the bin and recover the watch, but chances are you will not drag the river and find the watch
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas I have some mental idea that a managed program can have a useful, and a non useful, reference to an object. Adding an object to a map or a list or a stack or array or whatever, is exactly analogous to calling "new" in a c++ program - in so much that, if there is no code corresponding to the "delete",- the object has been effectively leaked.
So what if there is still a reference to the object in the array? The c++ heap manager has a reference to the leaked object too. If there is no code to remove the array, or the object from the array, the object is permanently leaked, until the program is exited.
 
@sbi We are in a new field where definitions often aren't settled yet. And we are in a fragmented field in which subfields are using different, sometimes conflicting, definitions. We have to life with it.
 
I have suffered Symbian for my thesis, and I can tell you that there is a huge difference at the very least in that platform. A C++ memory leak is utterly irrecoverable, with a OS restart being the only solution. A Java long held reference can be recovered by just closing the application.
I do understand your point, but I don't share it on those particular grounds
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas thats some kind of weird OS implementation issue.
 
12:26 PM
Not really, the OS does not recover the memory that you do not release, a long held reference in Java will be released when the VM goes down, because the actual memory was never really lost. It was unusable, but not lost
 
The fact that (apparently) multiple c++ programs are sharing the same heap is just odd, and just implies that the symbian abstraction of a process is whats flawed.
 
@ChrisBecke It doesn't feel like an OS implementation issue. It is one with the language implementation. The Java runtime ensure that all its memory is reverted to the OS when the app quit. The C++ runtime doesn't, but it could without implementing a GC.
 
Symbiand does not actually have the concept of process, applications run as in an environment that more closely matches threads than processes (in the unix/windows sense of process/thread)
 
well, the c++ runtime rather trivially could, by not calling directly out to os allocation routines.
if the c-runtime bothered to track allocations made (by, for example, implementing a linked list which is the canonical heap implementation), it could on termination clean up.
 
In this particular case it is slightly more complicated, applications can use parts of different applications, memory can be moved from one application to another... when you open the address book, you are actually opening a different application that performs some process (through user input selects an entry) and then yields an object representation to the calling application... memory is shared among all applications (including Java)
So when the address book application is closed, in some cases the acquired memory is still in use by another application (the one that launched it to obtain a number/address), and the OS cannot free it.
 
12:30 PM
I think the difference is that errors in a java program are soft errors, when a java program terminates unexpectedly, control "returns" to the enclosing c/c++ program that can then execute a clean shutdown.
if the jvm crashed, then memory would be lost.
and it should not be hard to implement a replacement heap for c/c++ programs that, onexit, performed the same kind of cleanup, at least for debug builds
 
We agree in that, but this does not make my point less true: since the Java application still holds a reference to the memory, when it closes it can release it. Memory was not available for others, but was not lost either
 
Not even. The java program holds a reference to memory owned by the jvm (presumably written in c/c++). When the jvm unloads a java app it can just delete all objects associated with it (that havn't been marked as shared in some way).
 
That reminds me use of sysV shared memory...
 
Or just implement a single, system wide, GC, that serves all java apps. so references to objects by a second program can prevent the object being released.
 
@ChrisBecke Again, the same thing: if the JVM leaks memory it would be irrecoverable, but a Java reference that is not collected because it is still held somewhere is not lost
 
12:36 PM
@DavidRodríguezdribeas We are beating the same point here. Most sane c-runtime implementations have a heap manager that holds references to memory allocated via new, and malloc(). and which can free any remaining blocks when the program exits.
 
I am not saying that Java is better than C++ or the other way around, just that to me there is a clear distinction between loosing (and being unable to recover) a pointer and holding memory for longer than needed.
Say another way, if you allocate a large array into a global smart pointer in a C++ program and use it only during initialization, is that a memory leak?
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas I do see the importance of this distinction in your environment.
 
no
oh wait, use only during initialization? yes
a memory leak is memory that you don't need that can't be re-used
 
I would say yes.
@DeadMG Long time no see!
 
@ChrisBecke he can't see you remember?
 
12:39 PM
Ok, at least you are consistent with your definition :) We just have different meanings for the same words.
 
yeah, I ignored ChrisBecke long ago
didn't realize he was participating here
 
I like to think one day he might unblock me. So ill be polite in the meantime
 
I hoped he'd given up or something
 
@DeadMG nope
 
In the meantime I vaguely enjoy the idea that he only gets to see half the conversation.
 
12:41 PM
@ChrisBecke LOL
@DeadMG neither has Tina given up :)
 
there is that
 
@Tony see, he must be wondering now what that LOL was about.
 
but then, I think that ChrisBecke is just trolling, whereas Tina just has very poor communication skills
 
@ChrisBecke I don't think he wonders much
@DeadMG yea there is a point to that
 
not that I pay an awful lot of attention to Tina either
hardly ever see her in the room and I've only actually spoken to her once
not that I wasn't kinda harsh on her
 
12:43 PM
@DeadMG I guess that's a good thing in some respects, cause I tried to pay attention and I got only more frustrated
 
the thing is, she seems to have a very loose grasp of English
I don't think she's particularly stupid, or something like that, she just can't understand what I'm trying to tell her
 
@DeadMG well, the spelling is the worst if you ask me
 
@DeadMG and a strong drive for attention
 
there is that
but who wouldn't want my attention, let's be honest here
 
How are your stomach troubles going? Any better?
 
12:44 PM
@DavidRodríguezdribeas yea sometimes it does feel like she wants all the attention
 
no
most assuredly not
it's very rapidly beginning to very piss me off
 
@DeadMG euh... :p
 
by that, what I mean is that it was pissing me off four months ago
 
argh, why isn't it weekend yet?
 
@DeadMG been to a specialist yet?
 
12:45 PM
sorry to hear that...
 
@Tony: no, but I am going soon
 
@jalf cause you're not living in Asia
 
@DeadMG and I think DeadMG is a bit of a numpty, with awfully strong opinions for someone who is failing their comp sci course. Then I remember that I didn't finish mine at all. But at least I've had 15 years of work experience behind me and a large record of working software thats used by ... well lots of people.
 
@DeadMG oh good :)
 
my father has private medical insurance so we can likely get a pretty fast appointment
 
12:46 PM
@ChrisBecke nothing wrong with having strong opinions....
 
the trouble is
it's so easy to eat stuff you shouldn't
 
@DeadMG oh yes, very easy :)
 
because there's a huge delay between eating, and the resulting difficulties, it doesn't form the proper associations
then you can eat say, chocolate, when you're focusing on something else
 
@DeadMG much easier than eating the stuff you should... do you have any particular set of foods that you can/cannot have?
 
cannot have: almost everything, ever
 
12:48 PM
@DeadMG I think thats the basis for marathon runners, and women who get pregnant more than once too
 
@DeadMG wow, so what do you have then?
 
can have: yoghurt, fruit, Heinz Beans and Sausages, cheese and onion pasties, double deckers
that's it
 
@DeadMG yoghurt and fruit ain't that bad.... not so fond of cheese and the rest
 
can't have: meatballs, fast food, chocolate (except double deckers), pizza, bread, cheese
it's not that bad
but you can't make a diet of it for months on end
 
can't have and can have cheese?
 
12:49 PM
yeah, I know
 
@DeadMG true
 
@Tony there is clearly no actual cheese in a cheese and onion pasty
 
can't have chocolate, but I can have a specific chocolate brand
 
That's an interesting mix... yoghurt and fruit are soft, Heinz Beans contain quite a bit of tomato, which tends to be acid, sausages are not usually simple to digest, and are fatty, as cheeses...
no idea what a double decker is, though
 
@ChrisBecke oh I read that wrong, my bad :)
 
12:50 PM
it's a kind of chocolate bar
when walking back from university I often walk past a small shop from which I buy it
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas a dual layer chocolate - white on .. regular
 
but all the other chocolate I've had, I can't eat
 
@DeadMG and my guess is that you really like chocolate
 
heh
 
locally its called a Top Deck
 
12:51 PM
I'm not that much of a fan of chocolate
but I frequently buy it, for example, if I'm feeling down
 
@DeadMG heh, I eat when i'm feeling down, but not necessarily chocolate
 
which is doubly why this sucks because I'm struggling with university and other stuff right now, and I feel like crap because I'm very sick, and I can't even comfort eat because it makes me sick :d
 
@DeadMG but is the uni issues related to your stomach troubles?
 
no
I had hoped that the stomach troubles were just stress over my exams and stuff
but they weren't
those ended three months ago
the ant-acids my doc has given me are very ineffective
 
12:54 PM
lol. sbi is DeadMGs secret nemesis. He has IBS.
 
@ChrisBecke huh, what's IBS?
 
irritated bowel syndrome
i.e., what I have
 
irritable bowel syndrome
 
lol yes I googled it
 
dozens of known causes, no treatment, not even a test
only speculation about what the condition even is
 
12:56 PM
that is an interesting remark... In case you did miss it (having Chris blocked and all) he said that you and sbi are secret nemesis due to ibs
 
a catchall diagnosis for everyone with an undiagnosable bowel reaction to food.
 
you can get it from parasites to cancer to mental illness
what does ibs have to do with secret nemesis?
oh, ibs sbi, I get it
 
@DeadMG :p
 
it sucks
I had to delay going home because of the trains
now there's nothing for me to eat here
 
@DeadMG oh gosh, trains in the UK are disastrous... don't even get me started
 
12:59 PM
I don't usually have a problem
but today, all along my route were delayed and then cancelled
 
@DeadMG not even when it snows?
 

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