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11:00 AM
it simply involves an alternative error handling strategy on those functions which will need to take code units in
 
@DeadMG I need to go back to the drawing board :)
 
it doesn't mean you will have to give them out
I mean, one of the primary advantages of having such a class would be that you could be, say, UTF8 on Linux and UTF16 on Windows or smth like that
but if you give out code units, you lose that encapsulation ability
 
I'm thinking of a separate API for validation.
 
that sounds good to me
in my opinion, it's a very bad idea to break your invariants (that the interior is well-formed Unicode) because the user might suck at coping with the idea that his input was ill-formed
I'd simply call that "the user's problem"
 
Yeah.
You're right.
Strict agnostic class at the core, all the nastiness in the I/O boundaries.
 
11:14 AM
Any more opinions on http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11326286/fixed-size-stdvector?

Its looking like I may just go with the abortion of the std::array wrapped lol
 
it's been only one hour since you asked the question
le patience
 
Humanity is running out of it, it seems.
 
:P
I know, I'm just curious, and procrastinating = staring at SO
 
So, basically, you want a vector<vector> with the storage of all sub-vectors contiguous?
 
pretty much
thats bang on what I want
 
11:18 AM
There's Boost.MultiArray. Anyway, I'd use a flat vector and work the magic on the indexing.
 
And the size of the uppermost vector can vary a lot
 
So the top most vector (parent?) can change in size occasionally, and has a very large N, where the objects it contains, can have a variable (but maximally limited) number of elements (lets say M), usually very small
Having them contiguous makes a big impact on iterations possible, and as an added bonus, since its POD, saves me like 40% the storage costs
but that wasn't a problem... just an added bonus lol
 
You'll want a vector<array> in this case IMHO.
 
No, flat vector! I love flat vectors.
 
11:23 AM
otherwise the second vectors will always store their stuff in their own little contiguous memory space.
@RMartinhoFernandes that's better, obviously
 
Multi-dimensional arrays are evil!
 
arr[i][j][k][l]
 
well.. thats what the current solution is (and hey, it works great!)... but I just wanted the transparency to be able to have jaggedness inside the arrays
so, imitating the current functionality of a vector, which has capacity, and size
where size refers to the number of elements that are defined, and capacity that number that could be
so std::array.size() == .capacity(), and I just keep an index to store the actual size
 
now how to import patches from one git kernel repo to another (note: these are not connected in any way whatsoever :/)
 
Well, as is, your solution requires default constructibility. If I were writing it, that would be a no-no, because less requirements are better.
 
11:25 AM
I know, I can't stand it :P
 
New Solitaire record 2:21
 
It was enough to put me off it
 
@RMartinhoFernandes how so?
 
@FredOverflow how the hell can such a game have a record? The time needed to finish is very dependent on the cards...
 
@FredOverflow I'm hyperbolating.
 
11:26 AM
But what else can I do Martinho...without placement new maybe...
 
Placement new is what you need.
std::aligned_storage + placement new = win.
 
@rubenvb The faster, the better? Right, it depends on the cards AND on your thinking speed.
 
@rubenvb So what? The time needed to finish an F-1 race is very dependent on the weather.
 
@FredOverflow speed is not so much dependent on the player's skillz imho.
@RMartinhoFernandes true, and the car, and most of all, the driver.
because even in bad weather, the driver needs to not crash his racecar.
 
I'd argue for that "most of all", but I don't have the time.
 
11:33 AM
Martinho
If your objects are already aligned, is aligned storage any benefit?
 
huh - define aligned? what would be aligned, if not the storage?
 
Does it take in anything else into account, or just the sizeof(T) to the nearest 2^n?
 
Wooo, have you seen the decision of the European Justice Court on selling software licenses?
Basically the European Court says that you can sell a software license that you own
So Blizzard, Steam, and the rest, are illegal!
 
:) pretty much beaten to death in this room
 
@Cicada Slowbug.
 
11:36 AM
Also, Steve Jobs died!!
 
@Daniel How do you know your objects are already aligned?
 
@Cicada Lol. Awesome comeback
 
If you use a char [sizeof(T)], it won't be aligned.
If you use a char[sizeof(T) + something] and align by hand... Well, I wonder what's the benefit of std::aligned_storage...
 
Their sizeof is some power of 2? Or have I gotten this all wrong haha
 
@Cicada not quite true. It not being illegal does not mean they (Steam, Blizzard, etc.) need to make it possible.
It just makes it so they can't sue you if you do.
 
11:38 AM
Which is already a good thing
 
@rubenvb It also means you can sue them for preventing you from doing it, no?
 
@Cicada, it probably means you can sell your steam account to someone else, though
 
So basically this means that: a) you can legally sell your whole steam account. b) sell your windows or office license., etc...
 
@Daniel Yep, you got it wrong. The char array can be found on an address that is not a multiple of the desired alignment. That's the problem.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I wouldn't bet on the outcome of such a trial though.
 
11:39 AM
@rubenvb Or sue steam for not letting me sell my game licenses
 
@rubenvb Irrelevant.
It means they need to make it possible.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Again. That's not what was decided here. Another round of court would be needed to be sure.
 
@Daniel Nope, that's a service.
The ruling is about copies of software.
 
Ah, right, true
Damn, wrong on two counts in 1 minute...
 
What we've seen today with the release of the information about the Higgs boson is scientific confirmation of the importance of Comic Sans.
 
11:45 AM
I got nothing to do at work, therefore I'm going to read "Professional C++" by Marc Gregoire.. though just after a few pages there are already flaws in some descriptions of the language.. I are disapoint, sun.
 
Sigh, forgot about the horrific Default constructed Bar class... now I'm having to think again about placement new and a more complex allocation strategy in general :S
 
@rubenvb Unless you are using "make it possible" to mean "put stuff on the software", I don't see how that's not what was decided here. They can't make it impossible for me to sell my copies. The means for that is another matter.
 
@refp When was the book released?
 
@FredOverflow October 4, 2011
@FredOverflow I'm most annoyed by how the book describes std::cin as reading "keyboard input" and such, nothing says that std::cin is tied to a proper keyboard.. it's the standard input for crying out loud
 
@sbi Couldn't agree more. In the case of me and my brother, the least form of protest (i.e. "talking back") was strongly suppressed. I don't think that's a good way to prepare children for modern society.
 
11:56 AM
@Cicada ... lulwut Steve who died?
 
#include <iostream>
#include <array>
using namespace std;
int main()
{
array<int, 3> arr = {9, 8, 7};
cout << "Array size = " << arr.size() << endl;
for (auto i : arr)
cout << i << endl;
cout << *iter << endl;
return 0;
}

-----------------------

snippet example from the book I was talking about.. "**awesome**"
where the fcuk does *iter come from? this will most def' confuse novice programmers
 
It's a typo
 
haha
 
(and the next just said that iterators could be used with std::array, which will make "less fortunate" programmers think that iterators magically appear within the context of a range-based loop)
 
You know that some errors are actually left intentionnaly for people to fix
 
11:57 AM
@Cicada of course it's a typo
 
It's a bad edit from conversion to range for
 
@refp Great proofreading.
 
So supposing they found the Higgs-Boson particle, what does that imply?
 
Half-assed conversion to C++11.
@Neil Bananas.
It means they were right.
 
I'm gonna spam this channel with errors found in the book, then I'm going to grep out my messages and publish the findings somewhere.. thanks for being my notebook! ;-)
 
11:59 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes they have absolutely no obligation to facilitate second hand trade.
 
So all this research in finding the Higgs-Boson just to make the guy who found it feel better about himself?
 
@Neil Also, it's "Higgs boson", as in "the boson of Higgs", no hyphens.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes There's no apostrophy in Higgs though
 
@refp Create a room for that
 
What on earth are you guys talking about. It's called the Brout-Englert boson sillies.
 
12:00 PM
@rubenvb That's different from making it possible.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes you can sell your full Steam account, no worries there.
single games, no.
 
@rubenvb That's not what was ruled.
 
@Cicada create a file for that instead /cc @refp
 
Your Steam account is a service, not a copy of software.
 
@sehe mount -t sochatfs chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/10/loungec /tmp/somecrap
 
12:01 PM
Steam the software is free anyway.
 
sehe
srsly? haha
 
@rubenvb And AFAIK, selling your Steam account is a violation of the terms of service.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes you buy a license to the games on steam.
 
struct S { S : s(__ func __) {} char const * s; }; I have not yet found any compiler that properly handles this, even though the standard says that this is OK..
fuck..
 
@rubenvb That's exactly what the ruling was about. If the license is for unlimited time, you have the right to resell it.
 
12:03 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes terms of service overrule legislation? That's a first.
 
without the spaces around func (chat bug, you shouldn't be able to do bold text inside ``
 
@rubenvb There's no legislation that says you can sell your license to use their service.
The Steam account is not covered.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes the games within are though.
 
@rubenvb Yes, and those you can sell. Not the account.
 
so the only way you can sell those games is by selling the account
because Steam.
 
12:04 PM
Nope.
 
I'm actually talking C++ here, come on you guys!
 
@refp beat it. C++ is for morons.
@RMartinhoFernandes so then please tell me how I can sell my Steam games.
 
8.4.1/8 says that struct Obj {Obj () : s(__func __) {} char const * s;}; is valid, though I've never seen any g++ release handle this case. (remove the space after __func)
 
@FredOverflow What are you up to?
 
come on guys, we are in Lounge<C++>, we should care when a compiler doesn't confirm to the standard..
 
12:08 PM
@ManofOneWay laundry
 
@refp we also care about speling :)
 
@rubenvb ahhahaha
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Actually, that will fall under general trade legislations, which depend from country to country. I do think Belgium law allows you to sell your rights on a service, but it's been some time since I've studied trade law.
 
@FredOverflow Boring :( Do you have vacation now?
 
@sehe there is no notation of "speling" in the standard
 
12:10 PM
Another candidate for [arbitrary-restrictions]: stackoverflow.com/questions/11326666/…
 
@refp All the draft versions have a disclaimer warning of bad spelling, so obviously the concept exists
 
@refp it's in the index under the entry for :), speling
 
@ManofOneWay No, but I don't have to work today.
 
"A pointer must be valid before dereferencing it. A null or uninitialized pointer will cause a crash if dereferenced." .. No, it will cause undefined behavior, like.. making a raptor jump through your window. What the fuck is a crash?
 
But what are the odds this very same raptor decides to fix the code that invoked him ?
 
12:13 PM
If "fix" involves large amounts of blood, I'm in favour.
 
@jalf 98k, you're almost there! =)
 
`char arrayString[20] = "Hello, World";`
`char* pointerString = "Hello, World";`

according to the book the above is equivalent when "representing a string"
if I ever get to hire a fellow c++ developer I'll hand him/her this book as an interview question.. "find the flaws and get back to me" ;-)
 
@refp I'd walk away immediately. Not interested
@refp Missing two consts, at least
 
@sehe at least one const, two aren't "required"
 
@refp A crash is what happens with the window pane when a raptor jumps through it
 
12:17 PM
@sehe what if the window is already open (and it's a very small raptor)?
 
@refp Come on. This is Lounge<C++>, pedants among pedants. Also: you have two lines of code. Both lack the const oh I see
 
@refp Is that still from the "Professional C++" book?
 
@FredOverflow yes.
 
@refp Small raptors aren't supported by many vendors
 
What a terrible book.
 
12:18 PM
@FredOverflow it sure is, I scimmed through the "advance template"-chapters, some interesting things are there.. but I'm gonna read the whole book, got nothing better to do tbh
 
@ManofOneWay heh, another month or two
By the way, @ManofOneWay, what did you need with the CV thing? :)
 
how to introduce one when joining a chat?
 
@user1131997: Yeah, now that's a good C++ question.
 
nowhere does it say that T& cannot bind to a temporary, it just says that func (int) will accept a const, where func (int&) will not.. I are still disapoint sun.
 
@user1131997 how to ask a question in clear terms. 'delegation' doesn't mean anything in TCP/IP
 
12:20 PM
@Cicada: could have been worse: "HOW TO MAKE MY ROUTER FIX THE INTERNET ?"
 
HOW CAN FIX HELP PLS
 
@Cicada wut? "introduce"? what does it mean?
 
Meh. Pixmania back online, I can finally buy this Radeon HD 6870 for 120€ !
 
@user1131997 Take the serial number in the back of your router, then #include <router/ip/fix> then finally call DelegateInternalIP(DelegateEnum::WIFI_SOURCE);
 
@Cicada I can haz ur attenzun?
 
12:22 PM
@FredOverflow is it can has ur atenshun? FTFY
 
@ereOn There is a button for situations like this. It's known as a 'plonk'
 
@jalf I need to complete my CV first. Add info about the thesis I will be doing and so on. I will email you soon =)
 
Order please
 
guys please have a look at this.
0
Q: RASEnumDevices with Port name?

user1317084I enumerated the RAS capable devices using "RasEnumDevices" and I am getting the DeviceName as "Communications cable between two computers #8","Communications cable between two computers #7" etc., And my friendly name of the device looks different as "USB Device (COM10)" , I got it through SetupD...

 
@user1131997 You realize this channel is called "Lounge<C++>" right ? Why do you think anyone here will care about IP routing issues ? How can you expect us to answer your question when you can't even bother to say "Hello" ?
 
12:26 PM
pls
halp pls
how fix can do not work halp
 
A false sense of entitlement does not snobism induce
 
@ManofOneWay ah ok, let me knwo then :)
 
@Cicada please...
 
@Cicada Are you intoxicated?
 
@sehe it's just your own meaning
 
12:28 PM
@user1131997: So you known better than us what this chat room is about ? Can you enlight us please ? You seem to have a wise knowledge about what has to be done.
 
I have meaning. Yay. I feel validated now.
Plonk time
 
@FredOverflow can help?
 
Jun 4 at 13:26, by sehe
EVERYBODY: Commit chatticide and PRESS IGNORE simultaneously?
Probelmo solvo
 
@sehe May I help you?
 
@Cicada Yes. No feeding
1 message moved to bin
 
12:30 PM
@sehe But I'm hungryyyyy :(
And these simulations are taking ages
 
hi..
 
@user1131997: You know a lot of things, surely. Just not how to how to configure your Wifi router :) Which is sad, really. Would you have been nicer, I probably would have helped, but given that behavior of yours, I suggest you do it on your own :)
 
@Cicada hi..
 
Uh. Hi.
 
@user1131997 he isn't deleting your messages. None of us can delete other people's messages
 
12:31 PM
@Cicada I can help you get sober.
 
@FredOverflow pls
 
Stop drinking
 
Now please, if you're going to fight in here, please go outside
 
@ereOn I don't think , that it's a crime not to know smth
 
If you're unhappy with how your questions in this chat are treated, post them on SO instead. This chat is not for questions
It's a crime against my eyes to say "smth"
 
12:33 PM
@user1131997 No but joining a room, not introducing yourself and asking an unrelated question is a) rude and b) makes you look like an idiot.
 
0
Q: RASEnumDevices with Port name?

user1317084I enumerated the RAS capable devices using "RasEnumDevices" and I am getting the DeviceName as "Communications cable between two computers #8","Communications cable between two computers #7" etc., And my friendly name of the device looks different as "USB Device (COM10)" , I got it through SetupD...

 
@user1317084 Good news! I'm not in de rit mood
 
@user1131997 Actually, I'm trying to save the room from more noise. That's showing that if you actually read the history so well you would easily see that you have a rather explosive history of trolling here. So, please leave now. Next time I'll be flagging for moderator attention. Thank you very much.
 
I smell sockpuppetry in this one.
 
Hey guys, I've got a crazy idea. For those questions that you want answers to, you should try asking them on a Q&A site, such as, oh, I don't know, stackoverflow.com
 
12:35 PM
@jalf haha, this is so 2008
 
This chat is not for asking questions on. It is for slacking
5
 
at least he's not a creepy internet stalker
 
zomibe
Is that a mix of amibe and zombie?
No, being a moron definitely doesn't go against the law (sadly).
 
@user1131997 god, what is it you want?
 
@user1131997: Advice #1: When several people tell you your behavior is wrong, put your pride aside, apologize (optionnally) and act smart. Bitching because you don't like the local rules just makes you look dumb.
 
12:37 PM
Or rather, what do we have to do to get you to stop whining like a baby?
 
@ereOn Frenchie detected: misuse of "eventually"
False friend!
 
@Cicada: Spot on ;) What is the right word there ?
 
optionally
 
@Cicada: Thanks.
Now I wonder what "eventually" really means.
 
(Only 1 n actually)
ça signifie "finalement"
 
12:39 PM
@ereOn Everybody: have you all missed the (multiple) prior episodes with this user? Though not actually so extravagant as mr. John Smith, he has all the same moves. This is not going to work
Prime user, anyone?
 
Yeah he's the guy who answered this hilarious answer
 
@user1131997 I think there's something you've misunderstood
 
@sehe: I missed them, indeed. I guess it is not worth "fighting" anyway.
 
The purpose of this chat room is not to help
 
I can use bold too
 
12:40 PM
@ereOn It never is. No feeding the trolls
 
You can define people as "dump" as much as you like, but when we want to answer questions, we go to stackoverflow. This chat room is not for answering yours, or anyone elses, questions
By the way, you probably meant "dumb"
@Cicada Sweet. It's a rare talent
 
@sehe: Is that really a troll ? I mean, it doesn't feel like he actually wants to fight, he came with a real question (not something like "Why is Apple/Microsoft the best ?")
 
How do you get that upside "p"?
 
@Cicada Dammit. Flagging for moderator attention isn't working.
 
bpqd... seems like the lower-case Latin script is designed for trolling dyslexics.
@ereOn help vampire trolling, perhaps?
 
12:43 PM
Well, got some work to do. See you later.
 
@ereOn Well, look closely. He came in with precisely and exactly one illposed offtopic 'question'. The rest is banter
@user1131997 You do that. The mods will be flattered with your continued attention
 
Definitely a sockpuppet
@ereOn Bonne journée !
 
@sehe Just ignore him.
 
So what is the purpose of this chat?
 
@SinthiaV Slacking... And chatting
 
12:47 PM
@SinthiaV Purpose ??
 
It doesn't have a purpose, really
 
Purpose ??
2
 
Someone said it is not answering questions.
 
@SinthiaV we have SO for Q&A
 
Not answering questions is an essential skill, and one worth practicing at every opportunity.
 
12:49 PM
@SinthiaV Yup, this chat is for having fun, talking, slacking, whatever the participants feel like
 
omg gtfo
 
@user1489093 Actually, we can
We just have to unite our powers
 
@Cicada very easily now
0
Q: Can't flag for moderator attention: parseerror

seheRelated to this question: Error while trying to parse "Flag for moderator" text I'm trying to flag this (and related) for moderator attention. Here is my flag verbatim: user1131997 is back, disrupting the room with unconstructive, highly off-topic questions and ditto banter. We try...

 
"warning: no common commits" noooooo
 
@sehe +1'ed but I don't have that problem
@sehe your link doesn't work
Or maybe it's for mods/owners only?
 
12:54 PM
@Cicada I can read it. Your Meta power is inferior to mine. muhuhahaha
 
@Cicada Which one
 
I was hoping for inspiration. It looks like your "friend" just got kicked back out.
 
Xeo
11 mins ago, by user1131997
@sehe you could try this flaggins for the miles time, I always change my IP and registering new users, I like reincarnations, this feeling... With each new reincarnation all is statring from the clean list.... I don't think , that sometime you could put me in catch-block, cause I'm not the exception
 
lol
 
12:56 PM
Applicable:
Jun 1 at 11:45, by Tim Post
Protip: When running a six way sock puppet voting ring, don't draw moderator attention to yourself by being an idiot in chat :)
 
Oooh Tim
 
@Xeo The mods will have a look at the whole proceeding, no need to quote the whole shebang :)
 
"You already saw some standard library classes earlier in this chapter; for example, the std::string and std::cout classes." since when is std::cout a class!?
stupid book.
 
@refp Brillant. Stupidity redefined. Or just: immaturity and lack of proofreading
 
Xeo
@refp Great description of just about every programming book.
 
12:57 PM
"Professional C++".. my ass
 
Truth in that, too
@refp The title ticks me off, anyway
 
@refp cout is an object of class ostream that represents the standard output stream.
 
@sehe not many books have been released which cover , that's the only reason I'm reading it (beyond the fact that I'm bored as fcuk)
@SinthiaV .. and why are you writing that to me?
 
Because you asked.
 

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