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1:06 PM
Aug 12 '15 at 22:17, by ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ
Haskell is purely functional. It may support other paradigms by wrapping that functional paradigm with something else. But that doesn't change that Haskell as a language is purely functional.
also lol @Shoe you were so bad in that discussion
 
Also I've reminded myself that I did make this:
Jul 23 '15 at 8:31, by Griwes
user image
9
 
topkek
 
@Griwes laffo
good one
I like the flavor esp.
 
Ven
LOL
flavor here is salty, for sure
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Everything is butt web app now; I use the desktop version and don't care about the new one
 
1:13 PM
IDNAB
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's fairly horrible
 
user1804599
I need some good solution for API documentation.
 
English
 
user1804599
That can be hosted on GH pages.
 
Klingon
also rustdoc
 
user1804599
1:16 PM
Hakyll may be quite nice.
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz Have you used Hakyll?
 
nah. I'm just vaguely aware of it
for the most part I clench my teeth and use Jekyll
not thinking about what it's implemented in helps a tiny bit
hm what would you say for a language poll
it's been a while
last time it was "best first language"
this time I'm thinking either "best language if you care only about the resulting program"
or "the language that's most fun to write in"
 
Ven
last one is terrible
I'm having fun writing in languages you wouldn't touch with a 100 feet pole ;)
 
hm
well any other proposals?
 
Ven
i've never seen such a language poll
 
1:30 PM
Baby gibberish best first lang
 
Ven
lol griwes, C++ 100% good as a first language?
 
absolutely good
 
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz aaah, so it's per-person
 
1:32 PM
I remember learning python, but giving up because i felt i was talking to an interpreter
4
 
Ven
then it actually makes sense, sorry
 
@Ven griwes is a C++ fanboy
 
Ven
I thought it was just "cast one vote on one of the languages in the list"
 
nah, it's one vote [-100%;100%] per lang per person
 
@BartekBanachewicz s/you were/you are/
 
1:33 PM
Notice how there's also a 100% vote for Haskell from me. :P
 
I'm always bad at discussions. I'm surprised any of you even follow me into them.
 
well, the polls are nice because they showcase all of those little biases and prejudices
 
Ven
@Shoe we like you bby <3
 
so since Lalaland already started filling that, let's go with the most fun lang anyway
 
Ven
@Griwes right, we aren't being fair.
@Lalaland don't forget %
@BartekBanachewicz are we supposed to end up with 100%? :P
 
user406009
1:35 PM
@Ven No. Let's all not use %.
 
The Language Awesomeness Poll 2016 is on! This time, vote for the language you're having the most fun with when writing.
13
 
user406009
As long as we all don't use it, it will be consistent.
 
@Lalaland ok
 
Ven
:<
 
@Ven i can change formatting to display it later
 
Ven
1:36 PM
sure
 
I never participated in the 2015 :(
Where the heck was I
 
@Shoe dunno, it used the same doc and was open the whole year
 
lol @набиячлэвэлиь
 
Ven
okay, filled it
 
@BartekBanachewicz Add JS please
 
Ven
1:40 PM
JS is there...
 
@Shoe it is there dude
 
@Shoe column N
 
Ven
after TS before Perl
 
sorting went bad
I'll fix it but not when you're typing in
 
Ven
1:41 PM
wow, I'm very positive it seems
except for PHP, I'm happy writing in any of these languages
 
if you miss a lang add it at the end
 
Oh, wow. I hate JS so much that my brain automatically parsed it out of the table
 
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz ...can I?
 
:D
 
@Ven why not
 
Ven
1:42 PM
I might add a few too many
 
Come on brain, this is the time of our revenge. Show me the motherfucker
There we go, that -100 will show him
@Ven Was it you I talked about testing angular stuff with yesterday?
 
Ven
ya
but today i'm not at work, i'm at school
brain off
 
Turns out it's easy as fuck, I was just dumber than usual
 
Ven
lol
aw can't add anymore
 
1:46 PM
I have such a rejection for mocks I just refuse to learn the details of a mock library
 
Ven
:/
@BartekBanachewicz btw I'm against a "lisp" category
even if you wanna put "Common Lisp/Scheme/Clojure" there?
 
lol APL
 
I think that we might remove the extremely unpopular ones though
after i mean
 
Ven
yeah. if only one or two people fill the column, just remove it
I would've added Perl 6 next to Perl otherwise :P (and AWK, and other golfing languages)
@Griwes you don't 100% enjoy C++? :o
what if we lift the blame off of gcc? :P
@Zoidberg fill it
 
@Ven Of course not.
 
1:57 PM
oh tomorrow is actually holiday
cool
 
Did you miss all my raging about the language?
@BartekBanachewicz wut
 
Ven
@Griwes it was a lot about compilers, tbh :)
 
@Griwes It's not the language, it's GCC
 
@Ven Not only about compilers.
 
Seems to me that a lot of people enjoy Haskell more than I do
@Griwes in Austria :)
 
Ven
1:58 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I don't do enough Haskell to be constantly fighting it ;) (and sorry about the amount of languages that I added. remove some later)
 
yeah, that's what I thought
 
lol even I have higher score in the Haskell column than Bartek
though what @Ven said is probably true
 
thanks to whoever fixed the chart labels
 
Ven
$whoever++
 
(judging by the "YOU FUCKING FUCK IT'S OBVIOUSLY EQUIVALENT" rants)
 
Ven
1:58 PM
:D
 
lol that lonely positive PHP score
 
Ven
There are very few language that I'm like "ooh fuck no I have to use this" when presented with them
 
user406009
The total fun row is broken/useless.
 
@Griwes :D
@Lalaland why? it reflects popularity
 
Ven
well, it doesn't make sense because you can have only low scores but few columns filled
 
2:01 PM
@Ven which means that not many people feel the fun/pain
which that number reflects
it treats the basis as 0 - neutral, no opinion
 
Ven
ok
 
so bringing unpopular languages to 0 is fair IMHO
a total fun of 100 would mean that everyone uses the language and everyone enjoys it
 
user1804599
manager: we need to design an admin system for a veterinary centre dev: ok, this is it, remember your training class Dog extends Animal {}
6
 
Ven
ah, average per lang, you mena. ok
 
user1804599
lol again
 
2:03 PM
@Zoidberg :D
 
Ven
it's been a year!
@Zoidberg good jab
 
@Ven he doesn't fuck around the bushes in those polls, does he? :)
 
Ven
Did rightfold just think this was a "yes/no" form?
 
@Ven he just has strong opinions
 
user1804599
@Ven no I fixed it
 
Ven
2:07 PM
@Zoidberg \o/ 100% APL, :highfive:
 
who deleted nwp's row
 
Ven
..didn't
 
user1804599
Tcl is really horrible.
 
user1804599
Even Erlang got correct line numbers in stack traces within the last three years.
 
nwp
y u removed me? :(
 
user406009
2:08 PM
@nwp It was probably an accident by someone.
 
user406009
When everyone edits the same document, shit gets crazy.
 
user406009
Stuff flys around.
 
Ven
@Zoidberg I remember when you wanted to learn it
 
user1804599
yeah it was a bad experiene
 
user1804599
> <? isset($GLOBALS['template_vars']) ? extract($GLOBALS['template_vars']) : ''; ?>
 
user1804599
2:13 PM
ugh extract
 
Ven
lol : ''
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
Phone camera quality is pretty good.
 
lol who is someone and poot
 
@набиячлэвэлиь JS room
 
nwp
2:16 PM
they don't like me
 
@Zoidberg in bright light they tend to work ok
@nwp did someone remove your row again
 
nwp
yes
 
...
I have no control over that
 
nwp
I'll do it tomorrow or something
 
Ven
@Zoidberg did you use rebar3?
I had no problem with rebar2, but rebar3 is...
why is every piece of documentation in the erlang world utter (and outdated) garbage?
 
nwp
2:27 PM
@Ven could say the same thing about C++ and probably all other languages that had major revisions
 
Ven
at least some C++ material is up-to-date.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Bright, but not very bright.
 
Ven
===> Uncaught error in rebar_core. Run with DEBUG=1 to see stacktrace
 
user1804599
@Ven Mix
 
Ven
...that's literally a good idea
 
2:39 PM
@Lalaland so far I'm trying to get mine less error-prone (IOW reduce the amount of manual labor), but I think I'm gonna go with it for now
waiter, waiter lemme guess, there’s a fly in your soup? no i just wanted to say I use Vim
cc @sehe
 
3:00 PM
ok so headers tell the compiler what to "expect" before running the code? so if you want to call say a declared void function foo(), it will look for 'void foo()'
 
3:18 PM
@AjeetKljh headers don't tell anyone anything. They are just text files.
 
nwp
> ==20924== valgrind: Unrecognised instruction at address 0x4cdc1b5.
> ==20924== at 0x4CDC1B5: std::(anonymous namespace)::__x86_rdrand() (random.cc:69)
> ==20924== by 0x4CDC321: std::random_device::_M_getval() (random.cc:130)
> ==20924== by 0x4009D4: main (random.h:1619)
produced by ideone.com/EKfbJ8
why? :(
 
Probably because the instruction is unrecognised
 
nwp
It feels like valgrind doesn't like libstdc++6
 
3:33 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes i once paid for clothes online with the amount of 9500 instead of 95.00. I think it didn't even cost us any administrative fee to correct :) That was localisation induced though
It was total freak coincidence that the amount was even available (we were doing some big purchase. I think that was a car)
@CatPlusPlus I love that.
When I grow up I wanna be Cat
14
@BartekBanachewicz cheap copy of the "I'm A Vegan" meme
 
I used to draw a comic in high school
it was totally emo and depressive
 
@nwp Probably because your valgrind is too old for something smart that your compiler is doing.
Try compiling for 486 or something, it should understand these.
I hate when the messages arrive in the wrong order because of a fucking timeout.
 
is this for CPP questions?
 
sigh
 
shit I am feeling so philosophical
what is my purpose
what do I want my future to look like
what really is happiness
also I've just decided I want a printed version of LICD
uh why can't I buy the whole comic
oh wait year 7 and 8 are there
actually years 0, 1, 2, 7, 8, and 9
well.
 
user406009
3:55 PM
@BartekBanachewicz It seems to be like happiness is being retired.
 
user406009
At least, from my observations.
 
user406009
Thus my life goal to retire ASAP.
 
@Lalaland what are you planning to do when you retire?
I'm actually turning 24 in a few days
feels... old.
 
Love my job, retiring sounds boring
You guys just need to suck it up and stop being fannys
 
@Asheh you probably simply have less C++ experience than us
 
3:57 PM
Hmm, depends what you call experience
 
Ell
@LucDanton haha you can slight at me all you want
 
Given that you are not even 24 bartek and im almost 30
I believe you haven't even begun your journey yet
Good luck lol
 
@BartekBanachewicz In my experience, happiness consists primarily of being too busy to worry about whether you're happy or not (seriously).
 
@Asheh it means the brain rape induced by that joke of a language, what else
@JerryCoffin This was my line of thought so far, so I wouldn't need that remark
but the doubts that are creeping in are whether going fast won't make me miss things
 
4:00 PM
at 24 you cant have seen that much code
 
now I should ask you what's "that much" :)
 
Ell
@JerryCoffin I think this is true. Plus the moments of gratitude when you feel especially happy
 
@Asheh Almost 30? Wow! You sure make me feel young and silly.
 
Also if I ever get a coat of arms, my motto will be Gloria ieiunium
 
Yeah getting "old" ;)
Bartek millions and millions of lines
code bases that shouldn't take 45mins to compile, but do
because people love template meta programming too much
 
4:04 PM
actually no, Gloria rapide
 
@BartekBanachewicz If I ever get a coat of arms, I'm going to wonder what gangster is threatening with a coat of arms instead of a horse head in my bed. Sounds pretty nasty (especially if you're one of the people who lost an arm so it could be made into a coat).
 
Did I misuse the term in that context
@Asheh meh, I had compilation times over 45 mins
but mostly because the thing was huge
 
sounds like awful code
lol
 
All C++ code is awful unless proven otherwise
 
@Asheh There's this line of Scala code that takes 6 minute to compile.
@BartekBanachewicz You can't prove beauty!
 
4:07 PM
one line?
 
@Asheh Hmmm...taking that at its minimum (4 million lines of code), it's probably more than I've read.
 
Loll
 
he actually said "see", not "read"
 
@BartekBanachewicz Basically a "Prolog" query against a huge "database" encoded in the Scala type system.
 
user406009
4:09 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I have no idea. All I know if I have a long way ahead of me.
 
user406009
I am 21 now and have 0 savings.
 
@Lalaland Ctrl+S
 
wut, I thought you're my age
@Lalaland but you're not really earning money either yet, no?
 
user406009
Nah, I'm one of more young and naive people in the Lounge.
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah, still a student.
 
4:10 PM
well then, you're supposed to have debts, not savings
 
user406009
I really want to graduate and start working on my life goal.
 
if you're on 0 that's not bad
 
user406009
Well, I do have debts.
 
user406009
But it's not too bad.
 
I paid off every one of mine when last paycheck came in
buying cars, expensive clothes and gadgets apparently costs money
 
4:11 PM
@BartekBanachewicz So what qualifies as "seeing"? Just for example, let's consider a consulting job I did a couple of years ago. I was inspecting the source code to a couple of large, well-known web sites. Does it count as "seeing" when I (for example) did a recursive grep through ~10 million lines of code, but only actually read the couple hundred (or so) that matched?
 
@JerryCoffin honestly I have no idea. I find measuring the experience by LoC exposure pretty silly in the first place.
 
@Lalaland static_cast<unsigned>(debt) and you'll be rich!
 
@BartekBanachewicz That was pretty much my point.
@fredoverflow I prefer static_cast<unsigned long long>(debt);
 
it's the lhs that matters anyway
I could've char or short here and then you're screwed.
 
@BartekBanachewicz auto, of course.
 
4:15 PM
wow actually I can't remember when was the last time I've used short
it must've been at least 5 years ago
 
user406009
WTF vlc.
 
user406009
10.7 GB of RAM.
 
user406009
And now the OOM killer killed everything.
 
@BartekBanachewicz There's a joke lurking in there about casting Martin Short into a movie.
@Lalaland I'd call the OOM Killer an Achilles heel, but Linus is no hero.
 
hmpfh, code mentoring session in ten minutes
I'm not in a mood. Oh well.
 
4:19 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Are you mentoring the code or vice versa? Neither sounds very productive, to be honest.
 
@JerryCoffin them pesky little codes running around
 
@Lalaland lol linux
 
user406009
It didn't actually kill anything that important.
 
you run an important app. OS kills it because of another app
 
user406009
It killed all my chrome tabs and vlc.
 
4:25 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Dang. Unfortunately I have been writing some PHP the last few days.
 
user406009
Not too bad in the scheme of things.
 
Ell
@Lalaland dude what kinda porn are you watching?
 
user406009
@Ell Christopher Odd XCOM 2 let's plays.
 
user406009
I just love watching Christopher Odd.
 
user406009
He is a really good let's player.
 
user406009
4:29 PM
Nice commentary, doesn't screw up the cutscenes, and plays relatively well.
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz I think the bigger problem is the number of members for that class.
 
well I needed a catchy link caption
is that journalism
 
@BartekBanachewicz I wonder what has more lines, the includes or that..
 
@Khaled.K yeah the includes were my first target to ridicule
@Lalaland so I forgot to ask how's your progress
 
4:38 PM
@BartekBanachewicz It's apparently what passes for journalism nowadays. Then again, catchy headlines aren't exactly new either.
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz What progress?
 
user406009
I haven't really touched it. There is not really that much for me to add other than support for more components and more component properties.
 
user406009
I guess I can remove the lens from the API though.
 
@Khaled.K The headers by a pretty wide margin (108 lines vs. a mere 77 lines of parameters/member initializer list).
 
4:40 PM
@Lalaland Are you going to write anything real on that?
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz The main thing is that I need an actual usecase.
 
user406009
I can't really work on the API without some sort of program which uses it.
 
I also noticed they have like 10 contributors .. I wonder if they would like someone to refactor this thing
 
user406009
Next time I write a GUI application, I'll probably dig it up and develop it a little more.
 
@Lalaland true. I want to use hate-ui for harvest as a first target
 
user406009
4:41 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah, I never apologized about the harvest thing. Sorry, that was my bad for sorta leaving you in the dust.
 
user406009
I had the MCAT exam coming up and I sorta got distracted.
 
user406009
Sorry about that. I should have notified you earlier, or been more careful with my time.
 
@Lalaland I believe you actually did. No hard feelings, it just moves way slower now.
 
user406009
Eh, game projects.
 
user406009
My main issue with game projects is the lack of clear direction.
 
user406009
4:44 PM
I need to find a good non-game project that needs a UI.
 
@Lalaland The world could use a good (or even just decent) open-source technical drawing tool.
 
user406009
Don't know anything about something like that.
 
@Lalaland Yeah--it is kind of a small niche (but I could surely use a good one!)
 
@Lalaland What do you mean?
 
@JerryCoffin you gotta be more specific
 
user406009
4:53 PM
@BartekBanachewicz It's very hard to know when a game is "done".
 
user406009
With non-game projects, at least partial results are usable.
 
@Lalaland My current milestone for Harvest is Warcraft 2
 
user406009
So you have a more clear path.
 
well, I think the game is "done" when you can have fun playing it
no matter how buggy or incomplete it is
I spent dozens of hours playing game demos back in the day, with like one level or something
 
user406009
Yeah, but fun is hard to measure.
 
4:54 PM
@Lalaland Actually, no. Sit someone (may be yourself) to the game, give some time, ask "did you have fun?"
For an RTS this obviously involves either AI or (vastly better) multiplayer
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz Ask 5 people that question and you will get five different answers though.
 
Agar.io and Slither.io have proven that as long as you got enough people as opponents, the game rules can be exceedingly simple
@Lalaland It's not your job to please everyone. Pick people from your target group, not your mother (unless she's in it). If 1/5 has fun, that's meh. If 5/5 do, that's a good indication you're on a right track
I am having fun developing the game and seeing even feeble results really anyway
Being able to play it is a stretch goal
 
user406009
Yeah, I'm just saying that's a more complicated way to measure progress than: "does the program work or not"
 
I've sent you a screenshot of 10 buttons and I felt progress vOv
Dunno what someone else would say, but that's enough to make me continue
 
I think the most important thing in games is to have well crafted core experience
 
5:00 PM
Well, one thing that's bad from my PoV is that I'm building my game on technology that doesn't yet exist
it's not like Unity, where it's been proven countless times that it's possible to make a game on it
I have no idea whether Hate's design is any good at this point
man, those games were better in so many regards than the new ones
If the game industry stopped making new titles today we would still have lifetimes of amazing fun from the old ones
(the video is also really good incidentally, without the modern youtube bullshit)
turns out you can actually make a nice video w/o the dubstep introduction music, ads, asking to subscribe, or yelling at the viewer
 
5:19 PM
hello. this quiz says that putting 'protected' in the third blank is wrong. could you tell me why? imgur.com/wMP1yfL
 
user1804599
It isn't.
 
user1804599
Protected inheritance works just fine.
 
user1804599
The quiz was constructed by an incompetent person.
 
even private would
 
@Khaled.K As an example of the genre I'm thinking of, consider Micrographx Designer (now apparently owned by Corel). Basically, however, a halfway point between a illustration package (CorelDraw, Adobe Freehand, etc.) and a full-blown CAD package (AutoCAD, SOLIDWORKDS, etc.)
@AjeetKljh ..and so would leaving it blank (i.e., not inserting anything there at all).
 
5:25 PM
which makes it private by default right?
 
@AjeetKljh Given that these are classes, yes. If the base were a struct instead of a class, it'd be public by default.
 
@JerryCoffin ok
 
In case that wasn't entirely clear: class Base {}; struct Derived : Base{}; is perfectly legal (as is struct Base {}; class Derived : Base {};).
 
@JerryCoffin that's a tremendous amount of work
 
@Khaled.K If it were quick and easy, I'd probably have already written my own. :-)
 
5:33 PM
@JerryCoffin but I think there is a shortcut, one can use gimp libraries
..interestingly they're licensed with LGPL unlike the project in GPL, less troublesome to work with
 
I think I just found something interesting to work on as a next open source project..
 
user406009
@Khaled.K What?
 
@Lalaland a drawing tool..
 
Visual Programming? ;)
 
5:43 PM
I was being specific, I'm only going to write code that transform mouse actions onto a canvas. the rest of the work will be done by existing libraries
 
Morning.
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz Hakyll is a nightmare
 
5:59 PM
evening
 

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