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8:00 PM
@DeadMG true. But like I said, it is a common example used to show "what UDP is good for"
 
@DeadMG Yeah - you need a lot of buffering, either way.
 
fair enough
I believe some games work that way too
 
@rightfold Also, when you want some of TCP's behaviours, but not all of them. Or you want finer control by re-implementing them on top of UDP.
 
Another thing is that an UDP server that listens to port A will receive messages from different sources in the same "session". With TCP a new connection is created per remote sender.
 
and it conveys the basic idea: if you can live with the occasional garbled bit of data, and want to avoid unpredictable delays, UDP might be a good idea.
A TCP packet can be held up basically forever because it won't be delivered to the application until all preceding packets are available
 
8:02 PM
UDP does not garble individual datagrams, though it may mix them up, or lose them entirely.
 
user1804599
I have only ever used TCP programmatically.
 
@MartinJames I'd say that counts as "garbled" too ;)
@rightfold as opposed to what? Hand-crafting datagrams?
 
user1804599
As opposed to UDP.
 
carving them out of the bedrock
 
Is him a lounger?
@LuchianGrig
Visual C++ MVP and StackOverflow contributor.
41 tweets, 45 followers, following 50 users
 
8:03 PM
@Jefffrey He stops by now and again, yes.
 
Yeah, think so.
 
user1804599
He is present on occasion.
 
He's following me on Twitter
 
The speed of TCP goes down drastically if packet "loss" (aka retransmission) rise to 1% or higher. A 5G connnection will drop to a few Mbps if loss reaches 5% or so.
 
@jalf With lasers
 
8:07 PM
What? A book in 10 months? WTF scott
I want it all now
 
user1804599
1GW lasers.
 
@StackedCrooked Sounds like a side effect of Van Jacobson congestion control.
If you lose packets very often at all, you'll almost constantly be in a slow-start state, with a very small congestion window.
 
@JerryCoffin yep exactly
I have to look it up.
But yeah, the additive increase/multiplicative decrease principle kills performance in case of loss.
It's even impossible for current congestion avoidance algorithms to allow 10G traffic. It would require a retransmission rates lower than 1 in millions.
 
However, those calculation assume Reno. They ignore NewReno and SACK which are good at avoiding the performance drops.
 
user1804599
8:16 PM
Reno 911!
 
But newer algorithms keep track of variations in round-trip time to predict congestion and take anticipatory action.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Hehe - brain on autopilot.
Maybe he pissed off the autocue editor?
 
@StackedCrooked Yeah--20 years ago, Van Jacobson kept the Internet from collapsing. If you tried to use it at current backbone speeds, it'd probably come close to causing the collapse it originally prevented.
 
I have benchmarks for my implementation. The Von Jacobson (with the fast-retranmission optimization on 3 dupacks) is 10x slower then NewReno or SACK.
 
@StackedCrooked I'm not an expert, but wouldn't that (the 10x figure) depend on bandwidth, latency and network reliability and such?
 
8:21 PM
No, they are in-memory tests.
 
doesn't that just mean they assume near-infinite bandwidth and near-zero latency? I mean, the effect (and performance impact) of those different algorithms depends on all those factors
 
The congestion window is halved and the slow-start threshold is also reduced. This means that after a while you have the slow start essentially becomes linear growth. You can never recover...
NewReno and SACK have clever tricks to avoid this.
They keep up to speed.
 
@StackedCrooked Unless MSVC
 
'something'/0 == NULL
 
user1804599
8:28 PM
@Jefffrey old storage engine.
 
user1804599
The video is obsolete.
 
it's so amazing
 
user1804599
It’s like comparing the latest Haskell to the first COBOL.
 
@rightfold are you justifying that?
 
user1804599
You should compare it to an ancient version of PostgreSQL if you want fair results.
 
8:30 PM
MySQL 5.5 (which was the latest at the time of the conference)
vs PostgreSQL whatever version there was back then
How the fuck can you justify that a MySQL 5.5, for 5 major versions, allowed division by 0, did not check NOT NULL constraints and happily converted any string to 0?
 
user1804599
MySQL 5.5 with an ANCIENT STORAGE ENGINE.
 
user1804599
Never use MyISAM. Use InnoDB.
 
@rightfold Why is MyISAM still not deprecated?
What I'm wondering is why allow bullshit?
 
@Jefffrey Primary users were PHP developers.
 
The point here is: MySQL developers don't seem to care about the quality of their own product, so why should I care about their product?
 
user1804599
8:36 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Dunno. People still use it or something. vOv
 
user1804599
It would probably break tools that assume it as default. xD
 
InnoDB is the default since 5.5.
 
@rightfold Good.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes "It's about time"
 
(Meaning that speaker is a bit dishonest)
 
8:37 PM
select cast ('ha ha ha ha' as unsigned) returns 0
fail
 
> i mean, i know that's it's heavy modified, but mysql was the choice for google adwords, i mean, that must mean something, facebook and twitter started with mysql too, and more projects have this db, so...
Ah, appeal to authority.
Thank you, YouTube commenter.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Not so. InnoDB didn't become the default until 5.5.5.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Not really.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes he he
 
8:39 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes He's using Google and Facebook and Twitter as examples.
 
@JerryCoffin Not sure if serious, but still, he's running 5.5.20
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes So weird. I mean, Postgres is obviously superior to MySQL, why bother with dishonesty?
 
@EtiennedeMartel it's funnier I guess
 
@Jefffrey What'll do, is that it'll convince MySQL fans that they're right because if you have to lie to them, then you're obviously wrong.
Everyone'll stay on their positions, nothing will change, and important data will be remain on crap storage engines.
 
@EtiennedeMartel he was not lying to them
 
8:43 PM
And the world will not become a better place.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes So he is. It may not be outright dishonesty though. I don't remember for sure, but I have a vague memory that MyISAM may have remained the default for a while if you upgraded an existing database, even after a new installation would have used InnoDB as the default (but it's been long enough that I don't remember with any certainty at all).
 
But he starts from an empty database! :S
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes No, I mean existing installation of MySQL in general, vs. entirely new installation. Could (easily) be just mis-remembering though.
 
@JerryCoffin Oh.
Though that doesn't sound good.
 
8:46 PM
The presenter doesn't do everything in his power to ensure that MySQL is as good as it can be.
Because then, if you can still fuck it up, then it means there's no hope for it.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Because InnoDB doesn't support full-text searching
 
@CatPlusPlus Oh.
Holy tits.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Difficult situation. Once people have become accustomed to particular behavior, changing it becomes difficult, even when it's a really major win in most ways.
 
Yes, it's hilariously bad
You can either have integrity or FTS
 
@EtiennedeMartel at least he says "this is the default behavior". He is not being dishonest.
 
8:47 PM
Oh and you can't mix, because foreign keys don't work between engines
 
@Jefffrey It isn't the default behaviour.
 
@CatPlusPlus Foreign keys in MyISAM?
 
Foreign keys from InnoDB to MyISAM
 
@CatPlusPlus Hmm.
 
It pretends the row doesn't exist
 
8:48 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes it was back then
 
:15000953 The default engine is InnoDB.
@Jefffrey It wasn't.
We established that already, bar maybe an installation fuckup as Jerry mentioned.
 
The default collation is still latin1_swedish_ci :allears:
 
@CatPlusPlus It appears it does now.
 
Woah
Are MySQL developers LEARNING?!
 
> FULLTEXT indexes, since MySQL 5.6 and MariaDB 10.0
 
8:50 PM
World is really ending
I'm amazed
It only took them like 10 years
 
@CatPlusPlus They probably feel like MariaDB is burning their asses.
Finally, some competition in here!
 
Since MariaDB is led by the same incompetent people who were leading MySQL for years, I'm not sure if it's very relevant
 
@CatPlusPlus Sssshhh
 
I hope I'll be able to push Postgres for new projects at work
 
@CatPlusPlus Difficult though it is to fathom the thought, is it actually possible that the Oracle buyout may have actually injected a tiny bit of awareness of database safety into MySQL development?
 
8:52 PM
Fuck MySQL
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh, ok.
 
@JerryCoffin Mmmm no, it's just one of those random mutations
 
@JerryCoffin Question for ya: as a database system, is Oracle any good?
 
Happens sometimes
 
didn't read that bit
 
8:53 PM
I don't mean the Oracle-class corporate bullshit around it. Just the product.
 
FFS! According to MSDN, vsnprintf() does not return value that says how many bytes the buffer needs, instead it just returns -1. FML
 
Why are you using libc routines, they're all shit
 
@wilx How many variants of that function are they going to come up with. seriously. nprintf, snprintf and now vsnprinft D:
 
@Borgleader Still waiting for fuckprintf.
 
v* variants take va_list instead of varargs
s* variants write to buffer instead of stdout
f* variants write to given descriptor instead of stdout
 
8:56 PM
@EtiennedeMartel I've had little enough to do with it that I have a hard time saying much about it. From what I have seen, it reminds me of the B-52s I worked on in the Air Force. Heinously expensive and takes immense amounts of maintenance, but it'll do jobs almost nothing else can really even try and continue working forever if you do maintain it correctly.
 
n* variants aren't retarded and take buffer size
 
@wilx it returns a negative number only if an error occurs?
 
didnt MS add s_ variants that are "safe" wtv that means
 
@Borgleader That means they're templates that figure out the buffer size on their own instead of depending on you to get it right (at least they have some that do that, and I think they're the ones you're referring to).
 
8:59 PM
wh...why... why do celebraties do this to themselves?
 
@thecoshman MONEY
 
@thecoshman Lost bets
 
@Jefffrey It returns -1 when the buffer you are printing to is too small. But the Unix variant returns the size that the buffer should have so that the printed text fits into it.
 
@thecoshman It's from their agent doing his best to act like the slave riding in the chariot next to Ceasar, reminding him: "you're really only human" as he swept into Rome in front of the adoring crowd.
 
9:36 PM
well ain't you a bunch of opinions
 
user3010322
@ScarletAmaranth Still haven't figured out why it's upside-down yet.
 
user3010322
@Borgleader Looks about right to me.
 
user3010322
Though isn't that good?
 
user3010322
Means that only the people that care show up.
 
user3010322
9:39 PM
Which means they alone can pass votes and make reforms, without the other crufty, uncaring individuals present.
 
@ThePhD What? These are UK MP's. Someone has to show up, so they draw straws in the pub.
 
@Borgleader Let's be fair here, the MPs expenses thing was a big scandal in the past when they were ripping off the public.
 
@Borgleader haha
@ThePhD I don't elect a representative to abstain on important issues.
 
user3010322
vOv
 
In two totally different senses, gay men, and the people who persecute them, are fucking assholes.
Somone had to make that lame pun, one day
 
user1804599
9:52 PM
dat pun
 
yeah and i'm sure that's the first time anyone did
 
Lame Pun Friday tomorrow
 
40 rep today. Brilliant.
 
0 rep today
I'm happy about that
 
@ThePhD 40 MPs are necessary to form a quorum, so those in the first picture can debate as they see fit, but would need a few more to institute anything like actual reform.
 
9:55 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit kudos
 
@ThePhD the voting practicalities aside, you don't see a problem in a parliament where so many are apparently only interested in matters that affect their personal gain? :)
 
@DeadMG ripping of the public? Hardly. How can they run the country properly when they are kept up at night knowing they have ducks with out a nice safe hut to live in?
4
 
Won't someone think of the ducks?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I managed to stagger up to 65. Something of a record for me:(
 
huh... you can star your own questions
 
10:03 PM
@thecoshman naturally
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit despite not being able to upvote your own content :S
 
@thecoshman Starring is pretty much just setting a bookmark.
 
is it?
I've never starred stuff on SO
 
You're missing out.
 
from what?
seriously
 
10:06 PM
@thecoshman Mostly, yes. If enough people star it, you can get a badge, but if memory serves the number is large enough that your own star doesn't make much difference.
 
@JerryCoffin oh yeah, 25 I think...
 
bool operator==(const T *&other)
{
   return ( this->get() == other );
}
wat
 
@melak47 Depending on what get returns, it'll invoke some == that takes that type as a parameter (and possibly convert the RHS to some type acceptable to that operator).
 
T *get()
{
   return this->ptr;
} // :D
 
lol
> my next mutex will be called "sher", because "sher.lock();"
 
10:11 PM
@melak47 That sounds reasonbale for operator== on unique_ptr
 
@Borgleader except this is a japan ptr
 
can a github organisation have one person?
lol
 
> Providing a powerful new tool for developers everywhere, Crytek today announced the arrival of Renderdoc™; a graphics debugger available to download for free.
/cc @BartekBanachewicz @ThePhD
:D :D :D (Source)
 
@thecoshman what Jerry said. it doesn't indicate quality and it doesn't give rep. it just means you can find it again later (until you have a million favourites, like me). Granted, the fact that there is a "how many people starred this?" indicator confuses that a bit.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit you can use the search to only search in your million of favourites
just append infavorites:mine iirc
 
10:18 PM
good to know. TIL
0
Q: How Variable-Precision SWAR algorithm works

Gaithint SWAR(uint32_t i) { i = i - ((i >> 1) & 0x55555555); i = (i & 0x33333333) + ((i >> 2) & 0x33333333); return (((i + (i >> 4)) & 0x0F0F0F0F) * 0x01010101) >> 24; } I have seen this code that counts the number of bits equals to 1 in 32-bit integer, and I noticed that its performance...

 
@Borgleader it's for DirectX
 
they released it because it's a dying technology~
 
> Plans are in place to increase Renderdoc™'s functionality over time, adding support for other platforms and APIs such as OpenGL.
 
@Borgleader I am still using trusty old gDebugger, though I am planning to try out VOGL soon :3
it's great that so many tools are available
GLSLang, VOGL...
OGL is the thing now
 
10:22 PM
organisations can in fact only have 1 person it seems
neato
 
on an unrelated note, my meta answer is a nice source of steady rep
 
@BartekBanachewicz but vogl isn't available yet :p
 
@melak47 well, imma jump on it when it comes out. Also, hm, now that you said that, maybe I can use my inside contacts :>
 
hey no cheating :(
 
he he he
I guess we will receive a prerelease
@melak47 Why do you think I chose that job? :D
 
10:26 PM
And another thing o.o
 
@Borgleader wat
I've never heard about that
it looks like it's free
 
How do you of all people not hear about this =/
 
lol, his inside contacts failed him
 
@Borgleader it's a completely different team on the other side of the globe, I think
TBF there's a lot of stuff coming through my mailbox and it's hard to keep up with everything
 
Well keep up.
Why do you think we still let you come here?
;P
 
10:29 PM
not much, I know.
 
user3010322
@Borgleader Looks like... fun? Sort of. Maybe... not really. Meh.
 
@Borgleader ugh, that jpg background
 
\o/ \o/ While searching in the shed for a reel of cable, I found A SIX-PACK OF BOTTLED BEER I DIDN'T KNOW I HAD!

Drinking Hobgoblin now.
 
@MartinJames lolololololol
 
I found one stray beer in the fridge
 
10:31 PM
@MartinJames gz
 
user3010322
@MartinJames That's like something that happens in a text adventure.
 
time to work on glisha for a bit
 
Imma going through the shed tomorrow, to see if there is anything else interesting hiding in there.
 
user3010322
@jalf I just wish there were enough people to form a quorum about it, that way you could leave off hte other 80/90 people who don't care.
 
@MartinJames Don't trip on the cable.
 
10:32 PM
BTW, @R.M, ever encountered:
C:/DEV/HaskellPlatform_2013_2/mingw/bin/ld.exe: reopening arkanoid.exe: Permission denied

C:/DEV/HaskellPlatform_2013_2/mingw/bin/ld.exe: final link failed: Permission denied
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
 
@MartinJames :'( I want some Hobgoblin
 
@BartekBanachewicz arkanoid.exe is running?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I get that sometimes, and it's totally random and goes away on next run
 
@BartekBanachewicz I had an idea for a better llogl, but I would have to build a database of all the enums/functions, and in which revision they were introduced/deprecated :(
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh shit.. I forgot about the cable. It's still in the shed.
4
 
10:33 PM
@Borgleader llogl?
 
Oh and which enums are valid for which function parameter
 
BTW did I mention that Haskell's GL API is cool? :>
 
@MartinJames Haha, I knew it.
 
@Borgleader oh. oh.
 
@MartinJames brilliant
 
10:34 PM
I'm dusting off my HTML and CSS.
 
manwe?
 
That's my box's name.
 
@Borgleader I got tired with all that version crap and my current lib project goes a bit more high level
 
These days I name my boxes after Valar.
 
which appears to have been a good decision so far
 
10:35 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh I see
yeah, I assumed it was your server name, but it was what the name meant that I was confused about.
 
I might work on some HTML5 :v
 
Manwë is a fictional character in J. R. R. Tolkien's Middle-earth legendarium. He appears in The Silmarillion. Manwë was the King of the Valar, husband of Varda Elentári, was conceived in the thought of Iluvatar as a brother of Melkor, and King of Arda. He lived atop Mount Taniquetil, the highest mountain of the world, in the halls of Ilmarin, in the realm of Valinor. The winds, airs and birds were his servants, and he was lord of air, wind, and clouds in Arda. He was the noblest and greatest in authority of the Valar, and only less powerful than Melkor. Fictional background Manwë w...
Don't have any melkor.
@Rapptz For what?
 
I had an idea to help students study Anatomy and Physiology.
 
oooooh that Valar. I was thinking Vikings :P
 
Like if you would click on a structure it'd tell you what it was
Seems possible (and easy) with <area> and <map> tags
 
10:40 PM
I farted
more than once
 
gj
 
@DeadMG congratulations?
 
I do feel an award is necessary
 
A new can of air-freshener?
 
eh
I fart frequently these days but they rarely seem to have any sort of particular odour
 
10:45 PM
Getting timeout/retry. Must be a FF update on its way.
 
user3010322
@Borgleader Database of enums and functions? Do tell.
 
@ThePhD Well so I can programmatically generate headers. Kinda like glLoadGen, but with more type safety.
But that would mean making an uber doc parser
 
user3010322
Ooh. You would want to parse the gl spec.
 
no
API is available in xml format
 
user3010322
Or the gl specification files
 
user3010322
10:52 PM
like, those mini ones
 
user3010322
Or that, that works too.
 
old specs are in old format, but Khronos moved to XML IIRC
 
user3010322
I see, I see.
 
which doesn't help much, because it's still a clusterfuck
 
user3010322
@Borgleader I'd be interested in helping you out with that.
 
10:52 PM
at least Sławek says so, and he's fucking OpenGL god
 
user3010322
@Borgleader I do something similar with DirectX. See: gist.github.com/ThePhD/0049fb3fa3be7478e0d7
 
@Borgleader mhm
 
Moved on to Brakspear bitter.
 
but it's a real pita anyway
FWIW Haskell API already has such typesafe functions exposed @Borgleader @ThePhD
 
10:54 PM
<param group="BufferTargetARB"><ptype>GLenum</ptype> <name>target</name></param>
 
user3010322
Do they have documentation I can write a parser for?
 
omg... i think it does what i need :D :D
 
user3010322
@Borgleader Looks parsable. Can use C# and XML reader and LINQ.
 
yes, it's fucking XML
it's supposed to be "parsable"
 
Borgleader and ThePhD don't even know Haskell very well
So why would they care?
 
10:56 PM
@Rapptz because they might get ideas from how Haskell API is generated.
 
0
Q: A question from a seasoned user should be worth more that a question from newbies

MerlevedeMore than a question, this is a suggestion, I've been told this is the right place to post it, so here I am. My suggestion is, as the title says: A question from a seasoned user should be worth more that a question from newbies, or in other words, the point system should consider the reputation ...

^^ No downvotes after 2 min. That's interesting.
 
@Mysticial ----2--- -3 -4
 
gj jinxing it.
 
Probably all of us.
 
I didn't vote
 
10:58 PM
I would downvote it if I dared load up another tab. My interwebs are so fucked up that half my posts are getting timeouts.
 
user3010322
Hm. Now I need materials on objects.
 

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