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6:00 PM
:P
 
If earth was just a few miles off its orbit, we all die.
 
Als
@Xaade: Considering space is infinite, You cannot say so definitely.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes You're right in that case, but the circle problem isn't discreet.
 
@Xaade We should put that to the test.
 
well, in a billion years or so the sun will be a red giant so if there ever was a civilization, you wouldnt know it
 
6:00 PM
@CodeMonkey Is that the "OK..." expression?
 
@Xaade I know. I was joking. Again.
 
@StackedCrooked forever alone
 
@CodeMonkey ah that one
 
@JohnKaul IDE's can't help you with that sort of task. They can only speed up you telling the compiler what you want- they can't tell the compiler what you want. More to the point, nobody cares if you can't work without an IDE, because everybody uses them.
@CodeMonkey five billion
 
@Als even if space were infinite, matter is not infinite, which means space is discreet and not infinite.
 
6:01 PM
For all I care, it's never.
I'll go swimming now, bye.
 
@DeadMG yea, thats right
 
Things are moving away from each other, which implies they began in the center, which implies there is a finite amount of matter.
 
Als
@Xaade: What about anti matter then? Since we are all talking abstract I just diced that in.
 
@Xaade or that we are in a bunch of globes
 
Als
:P
 
6:03 PM
the multi-verse theory
 
@CodeMonkey there are finite universes, or there'd never be one.
 
@Xaade what do you mean by there are finite universes or there would never be one?
 
If there are infinite universes then there's no discreet separation between them, then they are all continuous. If that were true, universes couldn't interact they way they do if multi-verse theory was true.
 
@Xaade I'm not sure that follows. There are infinite natural numbers, but they retain separate and discrete.
 
6:05 PM
In multi-verse theories out there, universes exist in planes that get close to each other and affect each other. If there were infinite universes, then they'd be continuous, and there wouldn't be a discreet distance between them. Thus they wouldn't interact the way they supposedly dow.
 
@Xaade Please do not talk about theories you do not fully understand
 
@JerryCoffin There aren't infinite natural numbers. You stop counting at some point. The point you stop counting is the next number. Then you still stopped counting. For the number to exist you have to measure it, which means you have to count it. If you don't count to the next number, it doesn't exist. That's my way of looking at it.
For real numbers this isn't true.
 
@Collecter If everybody followed that, the entire field of physics would disappear.
 
@JerryCoffin Xaade isn't a physicist though.
 
Because within any range, real numbers can be scaled down to that range.
Which means real numbers can be infinite, but I don't agree that natural numbers are.
 
6:09 PM
@Collecter Perhaps -- but it seems unfair to apply such a restriction to only one person.
 
@Xaade natural numbers are a subset of real numbers, and a subset contains all the properties of the parent set. So it has to be infinite as well
 
Natural numbers implies discreet countable objects. If there are only 1 million pieces of lint in the world, the number 1 million 1 is meaningless.
@Collecter I don't see natural numbers as a subset.
 
@Xaade Take that up with mathematics.
 
They're only a subset because they are represented with similar symbols.
I'm being practical here, looking at the practical world, I don't see a discreet set that's infinite.
However, real sets are infinite everywhere.
 
6:12 PM
@Xaade I can't agree. The number of pieces of lint does not limit the number of grains of sand, nor the number of elementary particles in the universe. The fact that my 64-bit computer can't count from 00000000h to ffffffffh in my lifetime doesn't mean the numbers cease to exist when I die.
 
I think a lot of the reason we have such absurd theories in science is because we think we're right about math. Math is just a way to revisualize reality and measure it. It's not truth in and of itself.
@JerryCoffin They cease to exist from your perspective.
 
@Xaade well, math laws can be proven
and so they are not "made up"
 
@CodeMonkey WITHIN themselves.
 
sbi
in case you missed it last night, I have some invitations for Stack Overflow Careers 2.0, grab one here: http://t.co/Ew33F41
 
If one basic idea was wrong, it all topples.
 
6:13 PM
@Xaade that i have to disagree with. math i believe is independent of observation, even if observation helps discover it
 
Take the fourth dimension, all of the sudden a lot of our math is broken.
 
@Xaade In most cases, we're not really "right" or "wrong" about math. Math is basically just a game of making up rules, and then seeing what those rules imply.
2
 
@JerryCoffin That's what I'm trying to say.
Math is a perspective.
It's possible to have a different alien civilization with a different set of mathematical theories. And their theories could be used to measure their perception of the world.
A being living in 10 dimensions would disagree with our math.
 
@Xaade I think you are committing reductio ad absurdum
 
@Xaade Math is the perspective. Xaade we base everything off axioms, the most basic buidling blocks of laws, things which really cannot be proven wrong in our universe.
 
6:15 PM
And a false dichotomy
 
@xaade a 10th dimensional being would only have created more math. They would still recognize ours. As well as alien beings once symbols were translated.
 
you can't say, well because x is false, all of y is false too
 
(They created more math because they have more to observe, and so were able to deduce faster than we can theorize most likely, if time even still applies)
 
@Collecter If that were true, then we'd never disprove a theory.
 
There are no mathematical theories.
 
6:18 PM
Every theory we'd create would be true as long as it didn't contradict previous ones.
 
What luc said.
 
Because math has this absurd podium from which it preaches its own correctness.
 
@Xaade That is correct. Each previous model can be correct within some bounds.
 
1we can find the answer of probability method is probably easiest. 1 - (5/6)^n, where n is the number of rolls (where n=1,2,3,4, and so on attempts )
 
Ok, then explain the paradox between relativity and quantum.
 
6:19 PM
I.e. 'correct' really means 'useful enough'.
(Science, not math)
 
We have Euclidean geometry. But we also have polar and radial because one thing which he assumed to be an axiom but could find no proof for was not. This allowed the others to be made, but it did not invalidate Euclidean geometry.
 
@Xaade I don't.
 
Unless there is a proof for it, it is not an axiom.
@Xaade What is the paradox between the two?
 
I disagree, it may still be possible to rework math and build an entire perspective that's different.
 
You could completely rebuild math, but it would all end up being the same.
 
6:21 PM
@Collecter They disagree about how space-time works.
 
The thing about math is that you can't disagree with it. It's all just a bunch of "assuming X, then Y is true", all of which have been proven, and none of which depend on, or say anything about, the physical world
 
@Collecter That's what I don't believe.
 
@Xaade That would be physicists trying to apply math to the problem. Does not invalidate math if they have not figured out how to do so yet.
 
@Collecter Math is a logical construct, it is not "right" or "wrong". Therefore a different construct can be built.
 
Not true. Logic has its own set rules.
I suppose you could build a different valid system using logic, but unless it is also true, it is not sound
 
6:25 PM
Ok, let me try to explain it this way.
 
Please.
 
You see a object that appears like a circle.
Describe the object to a blind man.
 
got to love living in a time where people feel entitled to not just their own opinions, but also their own facts and their own truth
 
Ultimately, there's no way to describe an experience to a person that hasn't experienced it.
 
oh hey, an enlightened badge
 
6:27 PM
So how do you explain the measurement of something round.
 
@jalf Out of curiosity, how do you know it hasn't always been such a time?
 
Yes you can. Whether they have the capacity to understand is another problem.
 
@LucDanton I don't
 
@jalf You mean like global warming.
@Collecter My point being that mathematical concepts are in fact irrevocably tied to perception
 
@Xaade Can that person hold a piece of string in his or her hands? I can describe/define 'roundness' with that.
 
6:29 PM
If there was a being who could perceive the world differently. That being might develop a different set of working math.
 
@Xaade There could not be another set of working math though.
 
Therefore math is not true in and of itself. It's only true because it maintains a parallel with our perception.
 
@LucDanton I was going to say I could tell them to hold out their hand, then trace a circle on their palm with my finger to give them an understanding of the shape.
 
We perceive discreet objects, therefore we have the natural number set.
 
I wish i had bothered to memorize logical fallacies.
 
6:31 PM
That natural number set is useless if there weren't any discreet objects.
 
Als
I walk in here and I feel this is anything but a C++ chat room
 
@Collecter There's the fallacy fallacy!
 
@Xaade If there was no discrete objects there would be no existance
 
Not necessarily true.
If everything was the same thing. Suddenly there is existance.
 
@Xaade no. Not like global warming. Quite the opposite. Like people who have all the facts at their disposal, and don't care that they contradict the person's chosen "truth"
 
6:32 PM
@Xaade I seriously wish you'd stop referring to math and instead referred to physics in your rants.
2
 
If everything was the same thing there would be one discrete object.
 
I was wondering the same thing @Als.
 
Mathematics doesn't care to be false or true, whatever that could mean.
 
And thus natural numbers would still exist in your world.
 
@jalf Like global warming then. People believe it's true, don't believe it's true despite facts.
@Collecter nope, there's either one or many. If there's only one, there's no reason to count it.
 
6:33 PM
@Xaade No, not like global warming, because with global warming we have quite a lot of facts, measurements and models at our disposal. Like people ignoring all this in order to justify their own "truth" about global warming, sure
but not like global warming itself
 
@Als they are craze scientist trying to rebuild maths rules lol
 
@Xaade Just because you do not have a reason to count it, doesnt mean it isnt there
 
@JitendraPathak scientists do that all the time. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you do it in a sane way
 
Als
hmmm
 
@Xaade and what do you mean by "there is"? Where exactly does pi exist?
 
6:35 PM
@jalf Believe whatever you want. The facts are misconstrued. There's no way to know whether it's true or not.
 
Math is, once again, abstract
it doesn't make sense to ask whether it "exists"
 
@jalf Which means it doesn't exist.
 
I agree with Luc also. Stop confusing math and physics please.
 
you can ask whether it's true, but the answer is, by definition, "yes"
 
Which means math is defined by usefulness.
 
6:35 PM
@Xaade Depends on what you mean by "exist"
It is true. That's all that matters
And it is a useful tool for modelling many things about the real world
 
Math is not true or false, right or wrong, exist or not. Math IS.... that is all there is. If it suddenly isn't useful in defining perception, it isn't... and there yu go.
 
@Xaade See, that's just it. I don't "believe". I try to know. Unlike certain others I could mention
@Xaade but it is, and will always be
 
@jalf Your thoughts are abstract.
 
@Xaade yes?
 
I need to keep working but this is how i feel right now.
 
6:37 PM
You only matter if you can be percieved.
If I can't perceive you, and you cannot perceive yourself, you don't exist.
 
No matter what you perceive, you can use math to describe it. If your perception is sufficiently complex, you might need very complex math, but it always "exists", it is always true, and it can always be used to produce models
@Xaade says who?
Where's the proof?
And where's the relevance?
 
Xaade is trying to act like some old philosophers.
 
The relevance is whether math is true. Math is only true because of perception. If nothing existed, math would be irrelevant.
 
Sometimes, I grow really tired of people who think that "if I redefine a few words to mean something other than what everyone else means by them, then nothing is true and I'll by definition be right"
@Xaade no...
I should warn you, I'm tempted to ask you to sign up for first grade. You may find that offensive, so I'll try not to say it
 
Try to describe discreet natural numbers if nothing exists.
 
6:40 PM
But math is true because that's what it is. It is defined by proof, proof and proof everywhere
 
@Xaade If nothing existed, math would not either. Math is a tool, an always true tool, created by intelligent beings. It does not matter what being, this tool will always be created essentially the same.
 
@Xaade What about Peano's naturals?
 
@Xaade Math is meaningless. We humans gave it a meaning.
 
apart from that, "if nothing existed" is quite irrelevant because quite a lot of things do exist
 
@EtiennedeMartel That's what I'm trying to say.
If math is a tool, then math is a model of perception. That means math doesn't have to be right, only useful.
 
6:41 PM
See the second half of my statement Xaade.
 
Which means, you can make an entirely different tool to describe the same things.
 
@Xaade math isn't any one thing. It's certianly not "a model of perception"
But math can be used to build models of perception
 
I'd say math is a possible tool to build a model. Whether or not it is the model doesn't seem like an interesting question.
 
@Xaade sure, and it'll still be math
 
@jalf Yeah, but the other tool may contradict the previous one.
 
6:42 PM
@Xaade no...
 
Yeah.
 
please give me an example, then. Show me such a tool which contradicts math
 
@Xaade Put it this way. Like I have been saying math will always be created the same. If I were to take a toaster, and put it into a cardboard box instead, it does not change the tool, simply the shell containing it.
 
I'll wait here
 
And the shell is irrelavent to the tool itself, which is the mechanics inside the toaster.
 
6:43 PM
It's impossible. I perceive things the same way you do.
 
(Really math but i was following the example)
 
@Xaade that's not what we're talking about
 
@Xaade Obviously you do not if we are having this discussion
This discussion is being had because of differences in perception
 
@Xaade Math is true because it consists of assumptions and consequences of those assumptions. It is 100% proven and 100% true. Anything that is true can therefore not contradict math. And anything that is true will agree with math
@Collecter no, because of ignorance
 
@Collecter Well, it will certainly take me a long time if I attempt it.
 
6:45 PM
so I've read a few pages of this discussion
 
@jalf Ignorance causes splits in perception :P.
 
Xaade: pseudo-philosophy with no meaning
jalf: logic
 
@Xaade Once again, show me this "true, but incompatible with math" model of yours. Until then, this conversation is a waste of everyone's time
 
Never said it wasn't a waste of time.
This chatroom is always a waste of time.
 
@Xaade so you're willfully wasting people's time?
 
6:46 PM
I don't think this chat is a waste of time
 
Right, back on my ignore list you go
 
else I wouldn't be here
 
It's the internet.
 
three friend went to eat food they spend 45$ 15 (each).but cashier return 5$ and the distributed 1$ each and 2$ tip . now each spends 14$ then*(14+14+14+2)=44$ where is 1$?
 
Als
Folks I can't really relate to anything that you are discussing at this moment. I think I should leave.
 
6:46 PM
@JitendraPathak I took it
 
three friend went to eat food they spend 45$ 15 (each).but cashier return 5$ and they distributed 1$ each and 2$ tip . now each spends 14$ then*(14+14+14+2)=44$ where is 1$?
 
Als
@jalf: Give it to me since you got it for free :P
 
@Als I need to make a profit!
 
Well it was really nice meeting you guys. I'm gonna take off now. You guys have a good weekend if don't make it back in till Monday.
 
have fun
 
Als
6:50 PM
@JohnKaul: Oh make sure you get a animal display image before you come back next time :P
@JohnKaul: Tis is a zoo
:P
 
yeah i see that.
 
Maybe I should pick one up.
 
Als
@Collecter: better hurry, You may run out of options pretty soon
 
Im still getting used to all the SO things (like rep points and badges, people) :)
 
@JohnKaul People aren't unique to SO
I've seen several outside it
 
6:51 PM
although we are an unusually insane group
 
i need some good answer from maths builders at least they should try lol
 
Als
@JohnKaul: We are the nicest though :P
 
with the obvious exception of Geniusâ„¢ and C++ Expertâ„¢, me
 
lol
 
Als
@DeadMG: Oh, well and did you forget the Pedantic trademark? :P
 
6:53 PM
You just remember that im Gifted so im not that far behind you...err...that didnt sound so good.
 
Als
@DeadMG: Beware, @JohnKaul is behind you :P haha
 
ah, shit
hi, Officer? There's this freak following me...
 
Do you think its a bad thing if I dont like this chat room anymore?
 
Als
@DeadMG: Now since we are nice and not nasty like @Tony, we did'nt interpret behind in the way he would :P
 
lol
true, Tony would interpret that in the wrong way
 
6:55 PM
@JitendraPathak You added the 2 back into what they paid, as if they hadn't paid it yet. If she keeps the 2, then that comes from the 42 that they pay (14 * 3). Which means they paid 42 + 3 that they could have paid. You've simply reverse which side keeps the 2 vs. the 3.
 
@JohnKaul Why? we're all wonderful lovely people
 
yes you are all very nice eye-roll.
 
Als
@Xaade: The more intriguing Q than the puzzle for me is, How did you manage to find she in that problem?
 
@Als Sorry, read cashier as waitress by mistake.
Brain skipped over the unimportant information, and filled in the blanks.
 
c ya.
 
6:58 PM
@Xaade read sincerely
2$ is tip
 
@JitendraPathak They give 45, cashier takes 5 away, cash register gets 40. She takes the 5 and gives herself 2, and gives people 3. Customers now have $1 each ($3), cash register has $40, cashier has $2., $40 + $2 + $1 + $1 + $1 = $45.
You're saying they pay $14 each plus $2, but they didn't.
They paid $14 each (cashier keeps $2, and gives cash register $40).
You put the $2 on the wrong side of the equation.
 
@Xaade just think they spend 15 each and when got 1 each then how much they spend 15-1=14$
 
$14 + $14 + $14 = $40 + $2
Ok, $15 + $15 + $15 = $45, remove 3 from both sides. 14 + 14 + 14 = 42.
 
yup 44$ where 1$?
 
No, not 44
There's NEVER a 44
 
7:04 PM
It's a hole in logic itself!
It all tumbles down to Euclides.
 
You basically did this, 14 + 14 + 14 + 2 = 40 + 2 (don't add 2).
 
14 + 14 + 14 = 42 + 2tip
44
 
Who paid the 2?
 
why they spend only 2 in tip
 
14 + 14 + 14 (+2 who paid) = 42 (+2 where'd this come from).
 
7:05 PM
they got 5 back
 
They didn't get five back if they returned 2.
 
3 distributed among
 
They got 3
 
and 2 is rest
 
Ok, let's do this step by step as equation.
 
Als
7:06 PM
If at the end of this if anyone of you two @Xaade, @JitendraPathak, find out that there is an extra buck or two left out, please pass it out to me
 
15-1+15-1+15-1+2=42$
 
15 + 15 + 15 = 45.
15 + 15 + 15 = 40 + 5.
15 + 15 + 15 - 3 = 40 + 5 - 3.
14 + 14 + 14 = 40 + 2.
 
yup now you got
@Xaade so now where is my 1$
 
You're trolling right?
 
i need it i am hungry
 
7:17 PM
Then get new material. -.-;;
Trolling is a art.
One I am not proficient in.
 
Oh I missed another existentialist math rant/debate.
 
bye good day friend
i mean friends
 
See ya @JitendraPathak
@Als I chose a picture.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Isn't that a good thing?
 
Als
@Collecter: Can't make out I had to see your profile to see it
 
7:22 PM
@Als That is the point. I am a snake, hiding in the grass. Or at least when I play board games I am.
 
@Collecter you play board games while hiding in the grass?
 
Als
@Collecter: No offence but in the online people list it looks like a pile of shite.
 
I hide in the wheat in Catan. I always seem to be five points behind, but win in one turn.
@Als that is ok
 
Als
@Collecter: Use this one:
 
fine I will change it, but not to that
 
Als
7:26 PM
Use this
If not the snake atleast the girl is pretty :P
 
@Als Isn't that one of the Olsen sisters?
 
@jalf Also in board games, I have earned the name wormtongue among my friends. I speak poison to their ears. It is always enough of the truth, but always in my favor xD.
 
Als
@EtiennedeMartel: Yup...Olsen sister with snake @Collecter
 
I already chose a picture. It just has to update.
 
Als
7:27 PM
@EtiennedeMartel: he thinks he is a snake, he@Collecter lol
 
There we go, it updated.
 
Als
okay looks a mean snake
 
My second choice was a bear.
 
Als
why snake & why bear?
 
7:31 PM
For snake for the board game reason I cited. As well as I am fairly tall and extremely skinny. For bear, I love the cold, and I see them off campus up at school sometimes.
 
Als
i see
 
Why a human in yours?
 
Als
because I am human :)
and it has my initial
 
But that is so boring.
 
Als
It is distinct, and people know me by that So I dont want to change it, besides I like it
 
7:42 PM
Alright.
 
Als
On second thoughts, I doubt if they know me in main SO but atleast here peeps do
 
SO will be going down for a while tomorrow
 
Als
Yes It displays a banner now
 
sbi
What's the proper MIME type for css files? (Needed for SVN.)
 
don't even know what MIME is
 
7:52 PM
@sbi text/css
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel Thanks.
@DeadMG It's got something to do with theater.
 
lol
 
Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions.
Makes no sense.
@sbi Why does SVN need this?
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Because it then knows whether it can automatically merge a file (plain text) or needs to leave that to you (MS Office files).
 
Ah, ok.
I understand the desire of having the right one, but in text/plain would work :P
 
Als
7:58 PM
Look at this question, I don't understand it
0
Q: const-pointer-to-type, pointer-to-const and terminology for const discussion

CatskulIn refining my understanding of const lately, I believe I've come across part of the reason that so many people seem to be confused about const which is the term "const pointer" which seems to me to be a misnomer in that when said(even by those appearing to understand the subtleties) seems often ...

 
Finally, my copy of C++ Templates: The Complete Guide has arrived. Took you a long time, Amazon.
 
Als
misnomer...huh...
 

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