« first day (2173 days earlier)      last day (2772 days later) » 

7:08 AM
@PatrickM'Bongo i recalled why i'm afraid of chrome(ium): the speech recognition feature. i don't want anything that potentially is listening to me
that and google's dark guts
 
Ell
@ThePhD what about SPIR-V
 
@Ell How do you send stuff to the GRaphics Card, assuming you have perfectly correct SPIR-V?
 
Ell
Opencl
Or vulkan
 
(You need to use Vulkan. Vulkan is a C API made available by DLLs. I need a C Loader.)
IOW, I need a C FFI.
And I need to figure out how to embed that in my generated code.
 
Ell
In your llvm?
 
7:14 AM
LLVM, or whatever else I need to get crap to the graphics card.
 
Wat.
I thought you were writing something that would run on the GPU.
 
@Ell o boi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well I don't think I can just... send something straight to the graphics card in an agnostic way. Like, I'd need some kind of bootstrapper, right?
 
@ThePhD What code are you generating, exactly?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't know yet! I'm evaluating everything to try and figure out what the hell would be good.
 
7:20 AM
Wat.
 
I think I did that thing where I didn't explain things properly.
Let me back up a bit.
I am writing a language for a class with my team members. We want to make it so you can write things in the language and it gets executed on the graphics card, all neat like.
Array processing, etc.
I'm trying to figure out what kind of target I should be outputting to in order to make an exec that can have data (or take in data) and then run whatever routines the person programs on the GPU.
I do not have good knowledge of this, so I am brainstorming ways to do it. Currently, I am trying to think how, in my generated executable or generated code, I would get my stuff to connect to the graphics card.
 
Oh. I'd just make the syntax be sugar for library function calls and then link in implementations of those that do the GPU thing.
 
I tried this today, it’s a fun treat
 
Hrm. I guess at this point my best option would be to output C code and then just compile it with GCC.
 
@ThePhD C APIs and LLVM don't mix. The details of the per-platform C ABI are not handled by LLVM - only Clang knows what they are.
you can use Clang to generate the requisite code but suffice to say, that would be "fun".
 
7:28 AM
Damn.
Okay, so I'm outputting C code I guess.
Or maybe I can write a C bootstrapper once and then just get to a point where I can self-compile.
C code + { OpenGL and GLSL || Vulkan and SPIR-V || OpenCL API + OpenCL Code }
Probably can't do CUDA because it's not cross-plat.
Ugh I'll think about this bullshit later.
 
@Puppy Is there a way to write custom assembly for C calling convention?
 
7:45 AM
I can't fucking think.
I can't do anything.
Help, I'm mentally paralyzed.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes since we recently talked about soldiers in France you may be interested in this but tbh it’s quite boring even to me
 
Ven
@ThePhD only mentally?
 
user1804599
@Ven LLVM can't cope with C macros and inline functions in headers.
 
Ven
no one can cope with C macros let's be real
however I was thinking more about outputting C code
 
user1804599
Me too.
 
user1804599
7:51 AM
If you output C code, then your FFI can easily support macros and inline functions.
 
@Puppy calling conventions are handled by LLVM
 
@LucDanton I'm not sure how to take this.
 
it's a kind of horrible definition language that is modeled after C++ metaprogramming it looks like
 
On one hand, I sympathize with them not wanting to do policing; OTOH I don't sympathize with the reasons they pick for that.
No gripping hand.
 
8:05 AM
well you have to admit it’s kinda a given that their concerns are soldier-like
 
@Aaron3468 Going back in circles from IE6. What's new is old again.
 
lolwut
"Guys, you suck. We're out. Can you please let in our friends from authoritarian Turkey?"
 
8:22 AM
kek
 
You can't make this shit up.
 
I thought only Polish reality was this far ahead of satire.
It seems I was wrong.
 
Dude, Brexit is where it's at. Best satire. Except it is actually reality.
 
user1804599
This image is licensed under itself: commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PD-icon.svg
 
No, Brexit wasn't ahead of what's going on in Poland.
 
8:26 AM
That was just the pilot episode.
This season is just great.
 
Remember the Smoleńsk crash? Some two years ago AszDziennik - a Polish equivalent of The Onion - wrote a joke article about buying a Tu-154 to crash it into a birch tree to see if it can indeed break a wing away.
Guess what has been proposed for real some two weeks ago.
A while back I usually had to make a double take to notice that an article is from AszDziennik.
These days I often have to do that to notice that it isn't.
 
@ratchetfreak I'm so sorry...
 
8:48 AM
@Griwes Brexit delivers new comedy reality daily!
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes hahaha
 
Ven
meow
 
Ell
This is a surefire way to speed up the demise of the EU :P
 
So uh
is doing TopCoder worth it?
 
Ven
depends if you're bottom or not
 
9:00 AM
huh... anyone here good with Kotlin?
 
Ask me in a few months once I've scripted my TC build configurations. :P
 
@Ven ???
 
class Invokable{
    var counter: Int = 0
    operator fun invoke() : Invokable{ counter++; return this }
    fun getNumberOfInvocations() = counter }

operator fun Invokable.invoke() : Invokable{ counter++; return this }
If I use the first version of invoke (commenting out the other), it works as I would expect... but if I swap to the other, the extension method, it doesn't work... I don't see why :S
 
> doesn't work
How does it not work? Does it lay on the couch all day?
Reminds me how it took a conference of 1000 tech people a whole day to give a person from the conference staff a proper diagnostic other than "WiFi is not working".
 
well, the first version correctly tracks the number of invocations.. whilst the second doesn't...
oh, well, it's part of ~learn kotlin by passing unit tests~ thing
oh I see why it's not working
The unit test provided a stub version of the second function. And it seems you can have both a 'class method' and 'extension method' for operator()
The class method seems to take priority, whilst the extension method seems to be more based on locality to usage
yeah, comment out the stub methods from the unit test and then the extension method works just fine :D
 
9:08 AM
@thecoshman what language is this?
 
Xeo
ITT: Unreal's Blueprints are not type-safe
I can pass an FString value as an FText argument \o/
(this can not happen in general and has some weird context behind it, but still)
 
@Xeo TBH, I would prefer they were not.
Translating blocks of matrices as 4 vector4 arguments might be worthwhile and shit.
 
@Xeo is that how Unreal does UML? :P
UnrealML
 
unreal is so sexy
 
@ratchetfreak Yes, calling conventions, but that's not how you load up functions from external DLLs compiled as C or C++; in my case, I'm trying to touch C functions provided by DLLs such as libmesa on Linux and other proprietary OpenGL stuff.
 
Ven
9:22 AM
I forgot about this one
 
I think as long as I can get an equivalent of "GetProcAddress" in my code, I can then just manually populate most OpenGL function calls and shit. Then I have to figure out how to make them available in the language I'm writing.
Man this shit is gonna be fucking hard.
 
@ThePhD still it'll handle the C calling convention and can call functions through function pointers
 
Xeo
@ThePhD No fuck you, it should be type-safe (this is a bug). If you want to do clever stuff, do it in code.
 
@Xeo :B
 
Ven
Am I the only person that gets annoyed when I read "an order of magnitude" and the article doesn't mention whether it’s binary or decimal
People like this deserve a special kind of slap.
 
9:27 AM
you mean the whole HN?
 
I dont want to live or work in a society where employees at every company reflect the demographics of that society
lol
Correct code in C is actually easy since the language is very simple
okay this shit is unbeatable
 
Ven
Distributed systems, don't read the literature. Most of it is outdated and unimaginiive. Invent and reinvent. The field is fertile. Really.
(that's a MongoDB guy. of course)
 
:D
 
Ven
We are the leader of Homeopathic databases.
I guess that sums it up
 
@PatrickM'Bongo come have fun here
There's HN
 
9:36 AM
@Ven :D
Well on the Polish JS group someone is pondering on a choice of MongoDB vs Cassandra
It's rare that I become a database fanboy
4
But someone had to do it... right? :D
 
Ven
You obviously defended MongoDB.
 
obviously
 
9:53 AM
@VermillionAzure kotlin <3
 
sbi
10:12 AM
@caps That's probably because I haven't been here in a while.
 
@Ven The DB's name always reminds me of mongoloid people, i.e., retarded DB.
The best thing is I have never used it, so I do not even know if it fits. :)
 
@wilx it does
Mongo's accurate data model representation is a bag of stuff
and queries resemble either putting the hand in the bag blindly, or dumping everything on the floor, taking what you want and then putting it back in
also the bag has holes and you drop things when you pull them out every now and then
 
It's the perfect schemea ¬_¬
 
Ell
10:58 AM
@ThePhD y u no use ocamls built in ffi? :v
Or an existing ocaml opengl library
 
11:09 AM
Good morning everyone.
 
God RTC is so broken it gave me cancer
Actually, RTC stands for Rerito's Terminal Cancer
 
Well you might want to check that out with your doctor ;)
 
11:26 AM
@Rerito you mean the actual ancient device?
 
I mean the source control stool by IBM
/cc @AndyProwl
 
11:42 AM
ah
that nonsense
:D
 
Ven
control stool?
 
@Ven Ouais ça va etre dur il fait vraiment chier ce logiciel frer
 
Ven
D:
we use git
 
Yeah I constantly rant about how bad RTC is
And how we would be better off using git
But heh
 
@Rerito the irony is that IBM as a whole doesn't universally use it, they favor teams making their own choice
quite a few teams use git in various forms
 
11:53 AM
@Mgetz have any of them created a git front-end for RTC?
 
@Rerito clear case?
 
@ratchetfreak no idea it's a big company
full disclosure: the company I work for was bought by IBM back in march, we're not fully integrated yet. The majority of our company uses SVN for legacy reasons, my team uses git.
 
I doubt any company would be stupid enough to force you to switch VCS just because
 
back in the day they would have, today... not so much
I know google still operates like that, with everybody's code in one big repo
 
> diversitytickets.org is a Travis Foundation app which helps conference organisers who have partnered with us reach out to minority groups by offering them ticket and travel grants
what. the. fuck.
 
user1804599
12:02 PM
I have this dialog
 
user1804599
Cancel order?
[Cancel] [Cancel]
 
a diversity lottery?
@rightfold yeah it allows you to order cancel
 
nwp
@rightfold the left one is cancel, the right one cancels
 
user1804599
239
Q: What to call "Cancel" when "Cancel" is already the default action?

Luke ChardeWhen attempting to cancel a service or setting, "cancel" is the default action. What should the normal "cancel" button be called? Redbox uses a playful "just kidding", which may not be appropriate in all circumstances.

 
> LGBTQIA+
uhm
I just learned what lgbtq is, and now they added three more characters
> If you feel like you are a member of an underrepresented group in tech — this includes, but is not limited to: people of colour, LGBTQIA+ people, women and disabled people — and agree to our Terms and Conditions, that makes you eligible for a diversity ticket.
 
12:05 PM
@Abyx personally I think letting oneself be defined by letters is just dumb, there is infinite diversity, let's start there
 
@Mgetz it's a list of minorities
oh btw why don't they give tickets to vegans, they're also an underrepresented group in tech
 
nwp
> I can only be described by a transcendental number.
 
@Abyx sort of? TBH in my experience it's not that simple, a lot of people fit into slices of those categories without realizing it
 
anyways, I don't get the point of this diversity tickets thing
I'd understand giving free tickets to talented poor people who wouldn't afford it otherwise
but all those LGBTQIA+inf and (sic!) women - they can buy tickets by themselves
 
12:21 PM
@thecoshman No no "RTC", "Rational Team Concert"
 
user1804599
12:34 PM
TIL Python has async/await
 
user1804599
so so bad
 
Hello all
 
Ven
@rightfold even usable in iterator
and they want to add an async for comprehension
That's one of the big issues with Guido: he thinks he can add any language feature by augmenting for comprehensions.
 
can anyone give me reference link OR book name(s) which is good for OOP study ,it must be basic to advance..
 
Ven
Don't learn OOP
 
12:39 PM
^
 
Ven
Also, "senior PHP developer", needs OOP tutorial for beginners?
> 4. Keep your code readable (Here I mean keep it aligned) and optimized.
lol
 
user1804599
@Ven lol
 
user1804599
GoPython would be super rad
 
Ven
yeah the speed of python with the features of go = really good
 
user1804599
goroutines :>
 
12:42 PM
extern "C" {
    uint32_t rust_add(uint32_t lhs, uint32_t rhs);
}
Woot, this works.
 
user1804599
always-improving GC :>
 
Can call Rust from C++ to add numbers!
 
user1804599
You can now safely add numbers. :P
 
user1804599
Well-defined signed overflow semantics. :P
 
Ven
12:43 PM
"Always-improving" is a nice way to say "It sucks because we don't even get GC right here at google, so we're trying to play catch-up"
 
@rightfold It's unsigned 32-bit integers only...
 
So there's a motorcycle for sale exactly like the one I want to buy
tempted
 
user1804599
Not if you also export rust_add(a: i32, b: i32) -> i32
 
$$$$
if I had my licence already I'd seriously consider driving to take a look at it
damn
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes what you doing?
 
user1804599
12:44 PM
I wanna do LTO with ATS and C.
 
user1804599
I suppose I need to emit some sort of LLVM format?
 
user1804599
And then use an LLVM linker?
 
@thecoshman Replacing one subsystem of our software with a Rust equivalent.
 
user1804599
Why?
 
Jul 6 at 16:28, by R. Martinho Fernandes
At my new job, after each quarter they have a week of "hack days", where developers can basically do whatever they want. Explore new technologies, write PoCs for features that never get scheduled for various reasons, etc.
 
user1804599
12:47 PM
Nice.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes can I come work there o_o
 
Xeo
We got "InnoDays" every second Friday :3
 
user1804599
InnoDB
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Any requirement that there has to be some "output" that benefits the company?
 
@Xeo I think getting a whole week at once is better than you can focus more.
@Xeo Nope.
Not at all.
 
12:48 PM
We have a never ending quest to make development impossible due to technical debt ;'(
 
One project someone's doing this week is building a case for one of our hardware controllers made of concrete.
Zero benefit.
It makes for a good pun.
(The real one is called "Komplete Kontrol", and they're building "Konkrete Kontrol")
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hm, nice. We have to have "some". Learning counts as "some".
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
That works great in English too.
 
@Xeo I think as long as you learn something from it, it's not a waste of time :)
 
Xeo
Even better due to pronunciation, even.
 
learned is important :p
 
12:51 PM
@Xeo Yeah, the idea arose from a conversation in English.
 
yeah, complete and concrete have close sounds... sort of
 
Ven
I wish I could have some time at work to dedicate to open-source :[
 
I could happily work on little things that would make the main work easier
just need time set aside for it
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, true. Comes down to basically the same number of days either ways.
 
I think if you are saying "do what ever" then a week makes more sense, but if you are expected try keep it more work related, then doing it regularly makes more sense
 
12:55 PM
@thecoshman Inertia hurts, I think.
Context switches and such.
 
I can see pros/cons each way
 
What's the pro for doing it regularly?
 
dedicated week is probably better
doing it say once a month means you can change what you are aiming towards to suite the work better
I guess a week is easier for business to account for
 
Here the goal is to experiment with things we might actually do in the future. It's important to have something to show at the end.
(While some people do construction work for the sake of puns, most projects do have some future improvement of the software/hardware in mind)
A week makes it more likely to have some kind of deliverable (of hack quality, but still) because you don't get lost with work stuff in between.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes mmm that sounds cool
 
1:03 PM
@Ven haha you are confused ,why would Senior PHP Developer require beginner require OOP concept study,right? But thats not true dude.I was asking for all developers(consider juniors),so that it will be beneficial for both (senior and junior).I know few links and books for begineers but if you guys know any better link which you want to suggest then that will be welcomed.
 
please don't teach people if you can't do it
tia
 
Ven
pretty much
 
anyway I think that learning OOP for the sake of it has very little benefit
it makes your thinking too rigid
 
Ven
It's bad to be too rigid, guys.
 
1:05 PM
I did go through *Head First: OO analysis and design" and liked it, but mostly the parts that focused on requirements and use cases
 
Fuck oneboxing.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes "TIA" is a remnant from the past internet times when people still used to thank each other
 
I know.
Just looks weird to me.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I am not teaching , I am not good at it ;) instead I am better in providing better reference link .
 
anyway working for NI looks really cool
if I ever consider moving to Berlin it'd probably be one of the first places I'd look at applying to
right now Austria looks way more realistic though
 
1:07 PM
@BartekBanachewicz thanks :)
 
@Exception fair enough
 
@BartekBanachewicz (y)
 
Ven
What a forgiving :bartek:.
 
@BartekBanachewicz that's nonsense. Just because you know about a way of doing something doesn't mean you can only think in that way. It's important to know about OOP, the good and the bad. Being pig headed about anything is not a good idea, no matter what it is
 
@thecoshman I think that there are things much more worth learning than OOP
 
1:14 PM
There are yes
but it's just plain wrong to say "learning X makes you rigid and only able to think in X"
 
if you're focusing on learning the hammer, you'll see nails everywhere
 
I agree with your sentiment though, problem I find with so many Java programmers is that they want to things a certain way, because it's oop
 
Oh cool, I can overload struct fields with impl functions.
 
@BartekBanachewicz if you don't learn what each tool is for, you are likely to make life hard for your self
 
user1804599
fucking special cases
 
user1804599
1:22 PM
>have to make a refund functionality
>easy
>done
>discover special case: can't refund buttcoin
>fml
 
special cases are love
 
> This is haram and should be stopped!
dat comment
 
2:26 PM
> I made a cover of John Cage- 4’33’’ but soundcloud analyzed it and rejected it on grounds that it needed more compression.
 
@PatrickM'Bongo check this out
 
ugh
my Cassandra keeps crashing with 2GiB of RAM
fuck me
6
how much more does this thing need
 
I'm reading about how many graphics engine use primitives such as triangles to render objects on the screen and many people say that the reason this is so is because triangles are guaranteed to be on the same plane. Why is this so? Can someone give me a concrete analogy as to why this so? Also how is it possible for other quadrilaterals like a rectangle not to be on the same plane in some point in time when the object gets rendered?
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes whut?
 
@LuisAverhoff Eh?
 
2:40 PM
@Xeo struct X { y: T } impl X { fn y() -> U { ... } } is valid.
 
Xeo
hokay
 
Presence of parens disambiguates usage.
 
Xeo
ah, ok
 
@LuisAverhoff consider a square (0,0,0),(1,0,0),(1,1,0),(0,1,1)
 
someX.y vs someX.y().
 
Xeo
2:41 PM
I thought it was some kinda property stuff
 
also tmux with watch is awesome
 
Well, it does let you write fn y() -> T and fn y(t: T) as getter/setters without separate names for the fields.
 
@LuisAverhoff Go see your math professor for proofs of how three points are always on the same plane, and for proofs that four points can have one of them out of the plane of the remaining three.
 
@Griwes Proof? Isn't it by definition?
 
kinda is. A plane is defined with exactly three points
 
2:43 PM
A plane can be defined with exactly three points.
 
yeah, more precise
 
Well, any proof is either by definition or trivial from definition (from any definition of a plane, it's enough to prove that you can define the objects used in it from three points).
 
@LuisAverhoff Have you ever sat at a table in a restaurant that wobbled a little because one of the legs didn't hit the floor? Try to imagine the same, but with a three-legged table.
 
@JerryCoffin Don't do this, it'll only lead to people thinking that you can get an actually useful answer to any question here!
 
I see
a three legged stool can only stand one way.
compared to a four legged stool.
 
2:45 PM
Actually, how a three-legged stool stands depends on what's on top of it.
 
@Griwes I gave no answer; I only asked a question or two.
 
It is possible to design a stool that stands on only one, or only three legs.
In theory it can be passive; in practice it has to be active.
 
ugh
seems that cassie is perfectly fine
i mean, since I started actively monitoring it
my next database engine will be called Schroedinger
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes With a low enough center of gravity, something balancing on a single point can be stable (but no, not generally practical).
@BartekBanachewicz Might be a good name for a cat shelter.
 
now I'm actually thinking it's java's fault
of course I've been opening db connections like crazey
without ever closing them
that's what you do in Java, right? .... right?
let's use a global static variable then
 
2:57 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Right about now, you wish you had RAII instead of a garbage collector that only manages memory, and leaves you to manage other resources manually.
 
@JerryCoffin please tell me you're joking right now
doesn't the GC finalize the connections or something
 
@BartekBanachewicz "at some point"
 
You can have both! :D
 
in other word maybe never
 
@ratchetfreak god this language is freaking useless
 
2:59 PM
the "solution" is try finally or more recently try-with-resources
 
@BartekBanachewicz Maybe. But then again, maybe not. And if they do, you don't know when. If you depend on finalizers, your code's completely broken.
 

« first day (2173 days earlier)      last day (2772 days later) »