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user406009
3:00 PM
I actually prefer stackless, but people have really differing views.
 
not this topic again
 
:D
 
Asio has stackless coroutine support, but I really don't like it.
 
So guys. Achievement unlocked. I crafted a simple payload that makes GCC 4.6 hang up entire OS.
 
:D
 
3:03 PM
I was already reporting faulty hardware to Dell, because I had previous issues with stability.
 
user406009
@R.MartinhoFernandes The coming language support (theoretically in C++eventually), should help a little.
 
just wait for coroutines TS or TR or whatever it will be
 
user406009
There were a couple proposals last I checked.
 
I'm purposedly targeting C++11 at the moment.
 
3:03 PM
So I committed the code so the build server could make the build artefacts we were waiting for. Soon enough: build server unavailable. All 24 cores completely hung on cc1plus instances
 
Also intentionally not targeting any TS.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes meh, it's more than five years old
 
Unlike you, apparently
 
@sehe true
 
:)
 
3:05 PM
stupid animal
 
@Abyx It's also still the penultimate release.
It's also still a release which you can't really target properly because mainstream compilers still balk at it.
 
yeah, I know. Chromium still uses a restricted subset because of incompatibilities
 
user1804599
@sehe I want to see it live on Coliru!
 
@sehe impressive
 
user406009
@sehe In all seriousness, could you post a copy somewhere? Like a github gist or something?
 
user406009
3:09 PM
Could be useful.
 
I think TSs are fracturing and when writing a library I refuse to depend on any TS that isn't strictly necessary for the core purpose.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'd rather look at what your compilers support.
 
user406009
Libraries should have minimal dependencies though. Applications can be more free.
 
@LucDanton Yay. I feel so accomplished now. For your interest: this was the thing that tripped it: paste.ubuntu.com/23178283
 
> GCC 4.6
whaaat
 
3:16 PM
Oooh, nested lambdas pre-4.9? lol
 
The other constructors are paste.ubuntu.com/23178301 and the GNU stdc++ bug is that these are ambiguous if invoked with a string literal. Sigh.
So. The working work-around will be to manually convert to std::string.
 
not a bug
you could change the constructor to template<typename Prologue> LogSource(Prologue init)
 
And then? Would not DoTheRightThing for const char* arg IYAM
@LucDanton What is not a bug? It's not an issue with recent GCC/clang
 
yeah, there’s a whole rigamarole if you want to catch everything
@sehe well, the spec was buggy and the implementation was compliant
 
Also. It's certainly a bug if it brings down servers. IMO
@LucDanton Ah. That way. I remember that indeed.
So it /was/ not a bug. Just a defect.
I'd rate it a bug now, subjectively
 
3:23 PM
@sehe fixing it is not always backwards compatible though, as you can see how it affects overload resolution here
@sehe I would have expected an error at the point of instantiation, as it normally happens
 
@LucDanton Point taken.
@LucDanton Me too :)
 
like that, no explosive results
 
For fun, try the nested lambda :) @StackedCrooked will be thrilled
 
3:41 PM
@LucDanton The problem was, I want the std::string overload (with the semantics shown)
 
lol, SO borked our profiles.
 
@milleniumbug I found it last night, thanks. I think I understand why it's in utility, but that's also why I never found it before.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Which issue?
 
3:57 PM
@sehe sorry I was just saying that the lack of ambiguity in particular was not a bug. obviously blowing up is a bug.
 
@caps toupper has undefined behaviour for negative values of char.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oof. I did not know that. Does the boost string algorithm have that issue as well?
 
Dunno. Docs don't mention it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes What. On. Earth.
 
That test uses a fake clock. How on Earth does it depend on OS :<
 
Does anyone know how @sbi is doing these days?
 
4:39 PM
Fine, AFAIK.
 
4:59 PM
I wish there were a way to filter out search results that are just for end users.
 
5:13 PM
@Abyx Might target C++14 for auto returns :S
Though I'm always reluctant to increase minimal requirements with things that make my life better but don't really help the user.
 
nwp
@R.MartinhoFernandes just argue that making your life better will benefit your users eventually
 
5:32 PM
Today, I saw a type named somethingVector and assumed it was just a typedef for a std::vector. Turns out it's actually a class that inherits from std::set :-/
 
@LucDanton Wow... What went wrong?
 
@fredoverflow Was it in graphics programming or something?
 
nope
 
5:48 PM
@Mysticial I want to do more investigating, but for sure libstdc++’s recursive tuple implementation is not helping
still though, at the core of the matter variants make it very, very easy to generate tons of code and this is what I’m ultimately doing
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes auto return is a very controversial feature. Unless the return type is some convoluted template type that doesn't really tell you anything, I would strongly advise against auto return, just for the sake of readability.
The Scala community has a similar convention on this matter.
Just because you can leave the return type off doesn't mean it's a good idea.
 
@LucDanton I was gonna say... Even in my 340k LOC project, both MSVC and ICC will tell me syntax errors within a few seconds - even if it takes 30 minutes to compile all of it.
 
6:04 PM
I think that in this case it’s because the mistake was literally in the last meaningful line of the TU, so everything before was parsed/type-checked/instantiated and all that
 
Too bad C++ can't do syntax analysis without semantic analysis :-(
 
@Mysticial a big number of LOCs like that is impressive, but presumably you don’t compile them all in one go though
 
Ven
@fredoverflow C++ can't do analysis at all
 
...Too bad C++ can't be syntax-analyzed without being semantic-analyzed?
 
Ven
@fredoverflow well scala can't do parse -> types -> parse bodies
@fredoverflow pretty much :)
 
6:13 PM
@Ven Scala is too complicated to be broadly embraced.
 
Ven
says the C++ developer :-).
 
Scala's type system is way too complicated for the average developer to grasp. Much more complicated than C++'s type system.
 
Scala's TS is fucking dope
 
Is dope good or bad?
 
Ven
@fredoverflow It's not like it's turing compl... oh wait.
 
6:16 PM
@LucDanton It depends on which mode. If I'm building from within VS, then it's broken up into about 200 - 300 units with the usual minimal rebuild. If I'm compiling outside of the IDE, then it becomes one compilation unit. One Main.cpp directly and indirectly includes all 200-300 other .cpps for one massive CU.
 
user406009
@fredoverflow Neither. It just eventually drives you mad.
 
Ven
Hey, at least Scala doesn't have constexpr. (... because it has full-blown macros :D)
 
Building outside the IDE is only for formal production-like builds. All the development is through VS. Since it's one CU, there's no parallelism within each .exe, but there's about a dozen of them which run in parallel.
 
@Lalaland plus all the dependent stuff, too
 
@LucDanton I was never able to explain the point of path-dependent types to other people.
 
6:22 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I could probably twist the UB/frozen-pond analogy into something similar to the branch-prediction/railroad one with some extra humor. But UB is too basic of a topic to survive on SO - let alone the fact that it'd be a dupe of everything.
 
@Mysticial Is CU the same as TU?
 
@fredoverflow yeah Compilation/Translation Unit.
 
@fredoverflow Or a variadic lambda that could return different types based on the input type(s). Or even a template function that could return different types based on the input types.
 
Sure, auto return plays great with templates.
I just don't want developers to replace std::string with auto.
 
Ven
@fredoverflow :[
 
Xeo
6:29 PM
@fredoverflow I do that.
 
In return types? Why?
 
Xeo
I use auto (and var for most of my declarations)
Oh, return types.
Haven't played with that yet, really
 
Ven
you don't use return types? :D
 
Just return void and pass in extra reference ;)
 
Xeo
Chandler hates out-parameters
because they inhibit optimisation so much
 
6:32 PM
@Mysticial I like the UB analogy posted here stackoverflow.com/questions/6441218/…
 
@milleniumbug Yeah, that one is hard to beat.
The one I had in mind is ignoring a sign that says don't walk on the pond. Just because you walk on it once and it seems to work doesn't mean it will always work.
And do some stupid joke about breaking through the ice and coming to SO to ask why walking on thin ice is a bad idea when it seemed to work at times.
 
@milleniumbug I find it kinda funny that it is Lippert that posts this insight.
 
@CaptainGiraffe Because C#?
 
@Mysticial hehehe
 
@fredoverflow Yeah a little.
 
Ven
> A whole new GitHub Universe: announcing new tools, forums, and features
April's Fools?
 
@Xeo Who do you like better, clang guy or "for loops are evil, use rotate for everything" guy? :)
 
@fredoverflow Now, I'm not at all surprised Lippert has the insight. The funny is that he beats a lot of other people with similar relevant comments with such a margin.
 
#include <algorithm>
#include <iostream>

int main()
{
    char fear[] = "anygerm";
    std::rotate(+fear, fear + 3, fear + 7);
    std::cout << fear << '\n';
}
 
predictable
 
Xeo
6:41 PM
@fredoverflow what?
 
Ven
WTF
they just majorly changed github
 
I didn't notice
 
@Xeo Do you like Chandler Carruth or Sean Parent better?
 
I was just there reading notifs
 
#define + -
 
Xeo
6:42 PM
@fredoverflow I find both interesting. Or rather, what they have to say.
2
 
I like Sean's soothing voice.
 
Ven
The "languages" dropdown on my gh profile has a funny look...
 
@Xeo lol that clarification :)
@fredoverflow It's one of the few slow, soft speakers that I don't actively hate
Bartosz OTOH. I can't stay awake
Stepanov, feels awkward
Stroustrup: only saved by the fact that he knows how to stir things up
 
I missed the video. Any kind soul to spoonfeed me?
 
@fredoverflow I think Sean Parent is awesome. Chandler Carruth seems like a cool guy, but Parent has much more useful/interesting things to say, from where I sit.
 
6:47 PM
@CaptainGiraffe Prefer std algorithms to for loops.
 
@fredoverflow tbh I use auto return type most often when I just don't list any return type for a lambda. Pretty rare that I explicitly state a return type as auto
 
@fredoverflow Well, that's just common sense. I get going native 2013 on a search.
 
@caps lambdas have unspeakable types in C++, so auto is the only choice.
@CaptainGiraffe Has it been 3 years already? But yeah, great talk.
 
@fredoverflow I mean, the return type of a lambda. [](){} -> T vs [](){} it is not uncommon for me to do the latter
 
@caps How do you feel about SGML?
 
6:51 PM
Oh yeah. Well, lambda bodies are usually very small, right?
 
@Ven rip flatlines everywhere
 
@CaptainGiraffe Unroll that acronym for me. :)
 
Also, you don't see lambdas in APIs :)
 
Ven
@LucDanton 0 fucks given :P
 
@fredoverflow Usually, yes. It is usually pretty obvious what the return type is. bool is very common.
 
6:52 PM
@caps Probably some kind of modelling language.
 
@caps First google hit. "Standard Generalized Markup Language"
 
@CaptainGiraffe I have no opinion because I have no idea what it is.
@CaptainGiraffe Here's an off the cuff opinion based on the name: it's awful.
 
@caps Here's a historical fact. You are correct.
 
@caps How do you feel about "On computable numbers, with an application to the Entscheidungsproblem" then? ;)
 
@fredoverflow Dude =)
 
6:56 PM
@fredoverflow Sounds like an academic paper. No opinion, off the cuff or otherwise.
 
Nobody knows (C) the trouble I've seen (C). Nobody knows my sorrow(G).
 
Is G the successor to F#?
 
Me: goodnight kids Kids: goodnight dad Me: goodnight monster that eats children who are bad Wife: [through radio under the bed] GOODNIGHT
@fredoverflow Usually to D(m) or F, really. At least in dominant pop harmony
 
@CaptainGiraffe Are you Captain Guitar?
 
@CaptainGiraffe ETOOMANY
 
7:02 PM
@fredoverflow I did make a living (supplementing my studies) playing guitar about 22 years ago.
 
@CaptainGiraffe one of my favorite guitar pieces:
 
Now lets compare F# to G. First F# youtube.com/watch?v=grlAH7iQCds and in G youtube.com/watch?v=Ce8p0VcTbuA
@fredoverflow This is also one of my favorites. I play it a little bit slower but with a lot more ornaments. I liked the way he played it.
Thing is Jethro Tull brought me to this piece =)
 
@CaptainGiraffe I also love this cover:
 
How about this despicable version =) youtu.be/2u0XXpVGUwk?t=43
@fredoverflow I like the effort; not that fond of the result.
 
Your taste is clearly inferior to my taste.
;)
 
7:14 PM
=) It is like youtube.com/watch?v=NeooHiX4oH0 technique is there. It is neat but its not an improvement.
I haven't had a taste in music for the last 20 years. I just need to practise more.
 
user1804599
 
@rightfold That is a stretch.
 
Xeo
7:47 PM
I need someone competent with Android and the NDK ;___;
 
@Xeo I did about a year of Android at Google. But I can't promise anything.
First of all, if you're gonna ask me about NDK, then you're fucked because I don't know that is.
:)
 
user406009
IIRC, wasn't the NDK pretty much just standard JNI?
 
Xeo
Tbh, I'm just hoping for some miracle. I think to be actually able to help me, you'd also have to kinda know Unreal and Firebase's C++ SDK
 
Yeah, you're fucked. :)
 
Xeo
I'm getting a crash on initializing firebase, but my code and data on the C++ side looks ok (valid jni_env and activity object, which firebase needs), and AFAICT, it never gets to the Java side (debugging decompiled .jars). It dies somewhere in the glue code.
And all that firebase has to tell me is this super helpful error message: "Failed to initialize the default firebase::App."
Thanks, firebase.
 
7:55 PM
Yeah, you're definitely fucked. :)
 
Xeo
Well, I have one hint I can still follow...
 
user406009
JNI issues can be a pain to debug. It took me forever to track down stackoverflow.com/questions/25568685/…
 
@Lalaland What did you do?
 
user406009
@Mysticial Divide and conquer.
 
user406009
Delete half of the code. See if it crashes.
 
user406009
8:06 PM
If not, delete the other half, continue.
 
What was the bug?
@Lalaland That sounds brutal. lol
 
nwp
@Lalaland that can backfire terribly when the crash doesn't happen near the bug
 
user406009
@Mysticial The program would crash before properly exiting if you used GtkLookAndFeel on a very special version of the oracle JRE. I don't know the cause. I just make it so that the GtkLookAndFeel was not used whenever the program was run on that version of the JRE.
 
user406009
@nwp Yeah. That was the issue. It would corrupt something and only crash when the program would start to try to exit.
 
Oh, you asked the SO question after you had narrowed it down to that.
 
Xeo
8:11 PM
ugh, I wish Unreal didn't rely on Ant to do the Android packaging. If it used Gradle, this would be much easier, since everything expects Gradle.
 
tfw flight to San Francisco costs 334 USD
 
@Xeo These are problems that I don't often have since I rarely work with 3rd party libraries. The one time I did was a small Java app.
 
I'm gonna be dirt poor this month.
Also, my math book costs 300+ USD too.
The only reason it does is because they're forcing us to do an online assignments thing ALONGSIDE a written homework things.
 
Why are you flying to SFO?
 
user406009
@ThePhD Sometimes they might sell just the code for cheaper (without the book)
 
8:17 PM
@Mysticial Gonna hopefully speak at Lua Workshop.
@Lalaland I think it's 178 USD for just the code.
 
woah
 
Xeo
@ThePhD University textbooks are a scam industry.
 
@Xeo I feel you, but there's nothing I can do. They have my grade by the balls on this one. uu
I'm trying to see if I can talk to the Professor about it.
Like. Maybe I can do the Assigned Homework Problems + the Suggested Ones and have them both be graded, because I don't have 300 USD to throw down.
 
user406009
@Xeo The fundamental problem is that the professor reaps the benefits of these online assignment things but the students pay the price.
 
@ThePhD Are you going on your own? Or is this part of your study?
 
8:20 PM
@Mysticial On my own.
 
Xeo
> libapp.a(app_stub.o) : error LNK2038: mismatch detected for 'RuntimeLibrary': value 'MT_StaticRelease' doesn't match value 'MD_DynamicRelease' in Module.FirebaseMessaging.cpp.obj
 
The idea is to build up presentations / conferences / publications to my name.
 
Xeo
Why the FUCK is my build suddenly broken.
gaaah
 
To prepare for Graduate School.
 
@Xeo Is this one of those things where everything works fine for a long time while you work. But then you do something that triggers a full rebuild and everything goes to hell?
 
Xeo
8:23 PM
jfc, this makes no sense
It's not a full rebuild
For some reason the runtime library settings are fucked up
 
@Mysticial good $time! think i've found a board for the 3930k, mind if i ask you some questions later on when i get down to the matrices again?
 
sure
 
great
actualy i'll get to do some cache and intrinsic optimization soon on this project as well
imagine a trilinear interpolation in space on a cube with 8 points, to get one point
sounds like a decent candidate for vectorization doesn't it?
 
Xeo
8:39 PM
Sigh, okay
Seems like the problem was technically always there, but the linker just throws out unused libs, without everchecking for the RuntimeLibrary stuff, until you actually use types from that lib.
 
@Xeo better now than at the meeting with the customer! :)
 
Xeo
siiigh
So now I got a static lib that is compiled with /MT, and the Unreal plugin that is always compiled with /MD.
 
@Mysticial and, don't know if i ever said thank you for the advice on the matrices back then, coz your advice on the ports was a great deal of my score. so thank you!
 
@iksemyonov From yesterday?
 
noo, year ago
 
8:45 PM
oh
Don't remember.
 
i asked a question here and you explained that i gave sandy twice the capabilities
wrt the ports or throughput, something along those lines
 
I don't remember shit. lol
 
15
Q: When the compiler reorders AVX instructions on Sandy, does it affect performance?

iksemyonovPlease do not say this is premature microoptimization. I want to understand, as much as it is possible given my limited knowledge, how the described SB feature and assembly works, and make sure that my code makes use of this architectural feature. Thank you for understanding. I've started to lea...

a hit question btw
 
Oh, it's an actual SO question. I thought those don't exist anymore.
 
ik wu mean
lately whatever i've been asking gets downvoted to shit
ok, admit, i'm a weird guy IRL asking weird Q's, but come on, sometimes it goes beyond limits
 
8:50 PM
Btw, matrix multiply and other dense linear algebra operations are pretty well beaten to death. Have you tried comparing with the state-of-the-art like MKL?
 
sure, we were measuring against that in the competition
 
Oh. How far off were you?
 
the cpu was about 310 GFLOPS, MKL netted 295 average
and mine were, as said yesterday, 227 and then 254 or so, the latter being a desperate hack
 
aha, clearly Intel optimizes for dense linear algebra.
 
Xeo
Great. So I'm basically fucked right now, because firebase is a built with /MT and I can't change that, while Unreal plugins are always built with /MD.
fuuuuck.
 
8:52 PM
there were 2 guys who got to about 225 as well, they used something as far as i remember, not sure to what extent though
 
Xeo
Guess I'll have to throw out the stubs for Windows. Meh. Platform-dependent code :<
 
@Xeo So I was right the whole time? :P
 
and a lady who got about 250 in the last submission and scored first while i was lazy to go beyond the last result..
 
Xeo
@Mysticial I still didn't have a full rebuild :P
It was just that the linker ignored the problem because I was not actually using any types from the library
 
@Xeo No, before that. That part where I said you were fucked. :P
 
Xeo
8:53 PM
Oh. Yes. :<
Luckily I don't need the libraries on Windows
since they're just stubs so you don't have to write platform-dependent code
but eh
 
Why can't you change firebase's build settings?
Also, what've you been using Unreal to do?
 
Xeo
cause there's only a prebuilt SDK that only has the static-linked versions.
 
RIP.
Prebuilt shit on Windows is the BANE of my existence.
As a dev, anyhow.
For Linux shit the problem is that there's complex arcana to invoke. On Windows, if X person doesn't build their close-sourced library in Y style, you're all kinds of fucked.
TBH I'm not sure why people build with /MT anymore.
 
In Linux, you're fucked anyway. Because whatever they prebuild will never work anywhere else that doesn't have like the same configuration.
 
MD is THE way to go. There's no windows distribution that doesn't have like 20 DLLs for every version and sub-version of VC++.
 
8:59 PM
At least in Windows, if you do it right, it'll work on all of Windows.
 
@ThePhD the latter part of windows does apply to linux too
 
@milleniumbug So Linux is the worst of both worlds.
N E A T .
 
@ThePhD correct
Of course in Linux, you're "supposed to distribute the source code instead of the binaries".
 
I wouldn't mind Linux so much if their source code wasn't always a violent pain to compile. =/
 
The bigger problem is of course the closed-source stuff.
 
9:02 PM
Once my Windows shit builds it pretty much builds forever. I routinely take VC++ 2005 projects and rebuild them in VS 2015 with ease, modulo the occasional fix to the standard library usage.
 
It's almost as if FOSS intentionally makes it a PITA for anything that isn't open-sourced.
 
I think it's less FOSS and more just the way development of Linux-only stuff goes.
 
I mean, it's clearly in their interests to do that.
 
Or at least, the stuff that started as Linux-only.
To this day I still can't compile Pango on Windows.
SOMEONE figured out how, because they offer binaries.
But those binaries are incompatible. So I'm fighting with the stupid thing to make it build but N O P E .
Gotta figure out all its dependencies. It's dependencies use autoconf. Try to use Cygwin to at least generate the source files properly, but it generates with linux-specific bullshit. Try to swap it out, but can't because autotools sometimes generates the code and doesn't leave the alternatives in the distro, so you have to finagle with bullshit.
And then sometimes they ENCODE the dependdencies into their autotools / shell checks / whatever, so it complains about missing {specific dependency} and I have it but I just can't format it in whatever linux-specific what they're expecting it to be present, so awdawhjdhawdkad
I REALLY hate older Linux-born libraries.
 
Xeo
9:28 PM
siiiiigh
I haaate platform-ifdef'd code
 

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