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12:06 AM
IT WORKS
holy fuck
 
user image
3
wink wink @jaggedSpire
 
behind every sign there's a story
 
Snrk.
 
that is an amusing pun
you've already corrupted me to the Way of the Pun, you know
I tried to fight it, but alas it was futile in the end. Much like PhD's protests at the growing influence of The Catface
:3
 
qq
Oh, that reminds me.
So there were errors in my OOLua benchmark.
And I wasn't actually -measuring- much.
So OOLua may not be as godly as it seems.
 
12:12 AM
I'm hoping they thew it in the trash because they were done with it though. :( That's quite a bit of effort to spend on getting rejected. Especially for prom :(
 
Hot, fresh, rejected effort tastes the sweetest.
 
I kinda regret not buying a macbook twice as expensive TBH
I should've had not eaten or something
 
@ThePhD yeesssssss let it flow through you
 
@jaggedSpire Just like rejecting the way of Catface tastes wonderful. :D
 
but I could have a 1TB disk and 16GB of ram and an i7
i5 is for the pleb
 
12:13 AM
Also, hey guys.
Gimme an IRC client you like to use?
I don't know what to pick.
 
@ThePhD lol IRC :P
 
@ThePhD oh I'm sure you think that's what you're doing :3
 
@Borgleader Some people are stuck in their old ways.
@jaggedSpire >.>
 
I used mIRC last time IIRC
 
12:14 AM
paranoia rising
 
I usually use freenode
 
@ThePhD yes some people support donald trump
 
mIRC costs... money?
 
not sure what's your point
@ThePhD does your religion forbid spending money on software
 
For something like IRC, yes. :B
 
12:15 AM
@sehe I like how the arc by the edge of the leaves is the cleanest part of that wall
 
@ThePhD I remember the annoying trial popup yes
 
Guess I'm rolling with HexChat.
 
I remember that all IRC clients I used were terrible ever
so there's that
 
@BartekBanachewicz Why a MacBook?
 
@Nooble because they are reliable, have great battery life and are the only laptops offered with Thunderbolt and Iris GPUs I'm aware of
the biggest disadvantages I'm noticing are mediocre keyboard, weight and heat
not necessarily in that order
 
12:24 AM
They have pretty decent keyboards, though, I think, compared to the rest of the other high-end laptops.
 
@Nooble Lenovo ones are much better
 
Travel and feel wise anyway.
Yeah Lenovo keyboards are also great.
 
Dell XPSs are meh, Latitude are good
HP are meh
I've used those high end brands/models so far
@Nooble also a high-dpi screen and an OS that can actually support it
> terra f() var v = nv(); v:push(5);  end
> f()
pushing
0   terra (JIT)                         0x000000000967414e $Vector.push + 222
Segmentation fault: 11
sigh
I think I am going to go to sleep
 
Windows 10 high-dpi scaling is getting better.
Oh and you actually use thunderbolt?
Never heard of anyone really using it :P
 
so far for the ethernet, lol
 
12:29 AM
oh
 
but I am thinking about some dock or something
not really sure yet
I am still considering replacing my workstation with a Mac Pro
but those are so fucking expensive it's not even funny
and desktop OSX isn't nearly as lucrative
 
Go hackintosh if you really love OSX.
That's what Domagoj did, and now he has a Mac with a 980.
 
I never heard anyone say they're any more reliable than regular desktops either... just build something
 
Hackintosh is more problematic
I tried that already and it's maybe fun for hackers like @Ell
but when you start counting hours put into configuring that thing it might quickly become a rather bad investment
 
12:53 AM
If only Apple didn't lock down its OS to specific hardware
 
For bonus points sketched a more verbose take that doesn't use the elegance of inline friend definitions: using SFINAE-ed base-templatesehe 20 secs ago
@Borgleader my navigation broke down again
 
@sehe Use the force, it will guide you.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Doesn't that... violate the open/closed principle :)
 
1:15 AM
TIL that I normally develop using the SOL paradigm
 
I read SQL.
 
DROP TABLE IF EXISTS Users;
 
might make my own keyboard
 
That sounds fun! What type/for which purpose?
 
1:36 AM
@Aaron3468 The computer kind (in case you needed disambiguation from the musical one :P), and hopefully I can make it programmable.
No real reason. I already have a programmable keyboard I put wayyy too much money into.
 
Haha, I was actually thinking more along the lines of a plain keyboard for word processing, or if it would have special functions like macro support for coding/gaming/telegraphs or even silly things like mini displays
If it's only a few keys, it isn't hard to whip one together with an MCU, a serial>USB interface and 3 or 4 keys for macroes
@Nooble Just challenge/personal interest then?
 
@Aaron3468 Yeah I suppose.
But a full keyboard.
Not a keypad or anything.
 
2:08 AM
It's definitely a nice project :D
 
2:21 AM
@Aaron3468 I personally adhere to FUBAR
 
Oh well. Maybe I'll finish it myself first. Don't mind me.
 
@sehe It looks good for moderators at least. I think they're good recommendations in general so far, though you'd need a clause to explain that negative behaviour towards other users is an offense at the discretion of moderators.
 
2:47 AM
Recommended (required?) reading for any loungist eev.ee/blog/2016/07/22/on-a-technicality
@Aaron3468 yeah. I realize that as a "part time half-mod" (owner) I should probably avoid making fun of certain events/contributions. It sends mixed signals. That's... fair. Never really realized that fully
(Not even now, probably). Night again!
 
3:08 AM
It's the effort to improve that matters most :) Don't worry too hard about it, you've done a fine job /cc @sehe
I'm still waiting for my shipment of assorted resistors so that I can prototype my soil moisture detector T.T I think the shipment was lost in transit
 
@sehe Well known furry blogger?
 
their partner's webcomic is actually pretty good, though not to my tastes. Nice art.
interesting premise
interesting characters
about a pair of nature demons who need to make a trip to hell IIRC
 
3:40 AM
In my experience, interesting premises usually come from inexperienced writers (not necessarily a bad thing; just let go of expectations or you won't enjoy them). I still love Asura Cryin', but in hindsight it wasn't that good.
 
Also age, for example Blue Submarine No. 6 was better when I was 12...
 
Haha, yes
What a productive desktop looks like .-.
Don't mind the very hacky code in the corner while I learn how to communicate with a new platform
 
user406009
4:14 AM
@Aaron3468 Yeah. I think I see similar trends with very interesting ideas in a lot of fanfiction.
 
Hey guys sorry but. Does anyone have link to a good C++ Good? (Except Primer please)
 
Did you mean book?
 
@Aaron3468 Your resolution sucks.
:)
 
Yea book or viedos
Wow @Aaron3468 quite a enviorment :)
 
@Aaron3468 Really, how can you possibly code on such a small window?
 
4:16 AM
@user5600875 Try the wikibook
 
yea that's what I thought first @Mysticial
Ok
 
@Mysticial ikr? My second monitor died a week ago and I need to buy a new one :/
 
I have 4 x 1440p and I regularly run out of space when I'm trying to do massive refactoring while watching an anime at the same time.
 
@Aaron3468 I'm gonna start with Chapter 2. so if I finish that book, and understand it very well..
do I know the C++ Well? (By well I mean like intermediate-advanced)
 
@Mysticial Sounds epic! I run out of space even with 2 monitors. So usually I have my laptop or phone nearby as a crude 2nd or 3rd monitor for reference material
 
4:19 AM
btw @Aaron3468 you like anime ? :-)
 
@Aaron3468 I'm actually in the middle of a massive refactor atm with an Anime running in the background.
 
@user5600875 That book will cover the majority of topics. Everything else comes from making mistakes (or poor code), and learning not to make them again. Don't be afraid to research things you don't understand
 
Lemme see if I can change all the open files to something that isn't top-secret for a screenshot.
 
Okie. I guess that will set me up for OsDev then. Thanks a lot :-) .
Anime is not everyone's thing by the way.
 
Haha, alright. I'll let the Russians know that the deal is off ;)
 
4:26 AM
Nevermind. Way too much personal stuff open.
 
@user5600875 I enjoy it from time to time. Like ordinary television, it gets boring once you know the genres. So videos tend to be a diversion more than a thing I like
@Mysticial No worries! What type of project out of curiosity? (so I have an idea of how tough the refactoring is)
 
Just curious guys, and gals.
Does everyone here use Visual Studio for their C++ Dev?
 
I'm watching Accel World so I can delete it off my hard drive for space when I finish. How about you Mysticial?
 
user406009
@user5600875 no. I just use vim.
 
clion is also good
 
4:34 AM
< Codeblocks, sometimes VC++ if needed. No matter which tool you use, it won't magically stop you from writing poor code, so find your favourite and go from there.
 
Actually the stuff from Jet Brains will magically stop you from writing bad code
its called static analysis
 
user406009
@Mikhail I just use clang tidy
 
user406009
And clang format.
 
Definitely helps, just like -Wall -pedantic.
 
try Reshaper and PVS
Anyways, I like clang tidy but it kind chokes on CUDA and Qt...
I sometimes run it when I'm bored...
 
4:37 AM
@Aaron3468 Gimme a sec. I think I have something that's reasonably clean.
 
Lol my Compputer crashed when I Open VS
i think i partinoed to much memory to Ubuntu... i don't want to try again :-(
 
What specs, user?
 
my name is Amanuel btw
specs? you mean memory?
 
user406009
@Mikhail yeah, you can only run it every now and then
 
user406009
Clang tidy is fast which is really nice.
 
4:40 AM
Alrighty, I'll note that. Yeah, processor and RAM in particular. Some IDEs like VS and eclipse are 'heavyweight', others are very light and run on low-end computers too
 
Clang tidy?
hmm
oh kk sec Aaorn
 
user406009
Although it's gotten to the point where I use it as a crutch so much I can barely write legible code without it.
 
Available Physical Memory : 4.31 GB
Total PM : 7.19GB
Installed RAM : 8.00 GB
 
lol, my non-rectangular resolution fucks up the screenshot.
 
I'm really tempted to Open VS.. but i don't want to crash computer again
not sure if it will but always a posssiblilty
 
4:44 AM
Woah... it's too big to be uploaded to imgur. I'll dump it on my website. It'll also let me take it down later if I find something personal in it.
 
@user5600875 Time to buy a new hard drive and RAM ($80 gets 1-2 terrabytes, and ~$80 for 8-16GB RAM) ;)
 
@Aaron3468 haha. first of all I'm not grown. second of all , if i had a choice i would get a desktop :-(
 
@Mysticial Alrighty, sounds good. PM me if you need to.
 
Right now i don't think i have the guts to open VS.
 
@Aaron3468 Here we go. Down-scaled 2x:
 
4:47 AM
@user5600875 Ah, that would explain it. Laptops do not play nice with big IDEs. Try out CodeLite or Notepad++. Vim/Emacs are both great, but have a learning curve
 
i do have Notepad++ .
@Mysticial is that on the right 473 LOC?
 
@Mysticial Looking very clean, and you've got some profiling, so it's probably a bit of optimization too?
 
It was mainly my gmail and several desktop items that I have to get rid of.
@user5600875 Compiler assembly output.
No I didn't write it.
 
Oh ok good lol
Dissasembling C++ .. tedious
 
@user5600875 I recommend you upgrade and give CodeLite a shot. Notepad++ is a very basic but functional. Imagine a good old electronic multimeter (Notepad++) vs a $500 oscilloscope.
 
4:52 AM
@Aaron3468 My laptop is a beefy gaming laptop for that reason.
 
@Aaron3468 CodeLite vs CodeBlocks ?
 
I've hardly ever gamed on it. But at the time they were the only thing that had 1080p and could run 32GB+ of ram.
I think the most intensive game I run on it is Akiba's Trip.
 
@user5600875 CodeLite is inspired by CodeBlocks, but a bit faster and about 10x easier to set up
 
@user5600875 That left monitor is amazing for reading assembly and large header files.
 
@Mysticial I can imagine. Sounds like a great platform! I've had my eye on Akiba's Trip, but it hasn't been on sale .-.
 
4:55 AM
Akiba's Trip is surprisingly resource intensive.
Since my gaming/programming laptop is expensive and big, I tried to get Akiba's trip running on my Ivy Bridge i7 laptop so I could take to AMW.
That was a miserably failure. Frame rate probably around 10FPS.
And since the game timer was tied to the frame rate... it was basically unplayable.
 
@Mysticial the left monitor? hmm what i see is temperature of your CPU, which i don't know why you would need :P
 
@Mysticial And that's a red flag that tells me why it's so resource intensive T.T
 
@user5600875 Because anything over 80C sustained is unhealthy for the CPU. And that's a very expensive CPU.
 
@user5600875 And to be fair (aside from practicality), resource monitors/visualizers are a programmer's equivalent of these:
 
Wonder how much CPU's cost. they must be expensive
 
4:59 AM
Here's the unscaled version. It's 6MB: numberworld.org/screenie_server/2016_7_23-akari.png
@Aaron3468 All I can say is that Akiba's Trip runs no problems with a Haswell @ 3 GHz with GTX 750 and Skylake @ 3.2 GHz with GTX-970. But it does like to cause hard freezes on my Haswell box when there's something else playing video at the same time. That even happens without the overclock and it seems to be a driver issue.
 
@user5600875 The primary two components of my development/gaming desktop were a $400 gpu and a $400 cpu. It isn't often anything crashes. I could've gotten by with a $200 cpu...
 
But it gets like 10 FPS on my Ivy Bridge laptop @ 3.2 GHz with integrated shit.
I can't tell if Akiba's Trip is CPU bound since they seem to use busy-wait loops which peg 100% CPU.
But graphics do matter.
 
hmm should i create a clang++ or g++ ... very conversial topic(Btw COdelite is quite nice :)).
 
My Skylake gaming laptop is a far better gaming box than the Haswell box in that screenshot with 4 monitors.
 
@Aaron3468 400 dollars? Wow
 
5:04 AM
But I do all my gaming on that box. lol
@Aaron3468 My GTX 750 was like $170 or something.
I got bashed for it on pcpartpicker since it was "underpowered" compared to the rest of the system.
 
Haha, I bet :3
 
whatever ill use g++ :)
 
I'm looking forward to AMD Zen and Knights Landing. But I don't think I'll be able to get a Knights Landing box the normal way.
 
But honestly, gtx 6xx and up is sufficient for most needs. Same as dual core at 3GHz usually is provided the architecture is recent. I went way overpowered because I'll be using my machine for years
 
Especially without any word on support for Windows.
@Aaron3468 I've found that certain games have performance issues on that Haswell box.
Not because the CPU isn't fast enough, but because there are too many cores for Windows to properly manage.
Windows likes to bounce threads around so much that before a core can get out of low-power mode and turbo up to 4GHz, the OS has already moved the thread to another core.
So single-threaded tasks are perpetually running at some shitty frequency that averages around 2 - 3 GHz unless I manually pin them.
It's a fucking pain in the ass. But that's what I get for trying to game on a coding box.
 
5:09 AM
I know this is a hard problem and there is no free lunch but this still feel like the stone age
 
At least for benchmarks, I have code that automates the core-pinning. But I don't think I can do that for games.
 
@Mysticial I run it... Haswell cool shades
 
@Aaron3468 Those don't have this problem.
I've never observed it on either my 4770K or my FX-8350.
It's only my fucking 8-core which does it.
Technically, I can lock the frequency to 4 GHz in the BIOS, but it'll burn through power when it's idle.
 
It's amazing how slow multi-core processing has become a normal part of code development...
 
@Mysticial What's after Knights Landing? Winterfallen? Castley Stone?
6
 
5:12 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 
^_^
 
Codelite isn't compiling
build project and run.. but i just get. Type to Continue . . .
 
@user5600875 You generally get what you pay for. About $200 per component builds a really nice desktop these days: $200 motherboard, $200 cpu, $200 gpu, $200 case, and $200 ram. btw, double-check this
 
@Aaron3468 yup i went to the quick start
all don't even add up to a computer lol
 
No?
 
5:15 AM
@Aaron3468 But trying to compile a large template-heavy project with a $200 processor will be very painful unless you have an unlimited number of swords to use.
 
Knight's Landing comes equipped with armies, right? I think you'll be able to pierce those templates
But you are correct. For general purpose and anyone who codes as a hobby, it's good enough
 
i guess ill just execute it using The Command Line...
 
Knights Landing means:
- Compile your code in X seconds.
- Link your code in X hours.
 
@user5600875 Configuring new tools the first time is a game of trial and error that can take up to a week. Keep trying to get it working every few days until it does. Once it's set up, you can leave a 'here be dragons' sign and use it forever until you break the settings.
 
Are inline functions truly faster than preprocessor directives?
 
5:20 AM
@Aaron3468 At least Visual Studio tends to work out-of-the-box.
 
@Aaron3468 hey! I actually normally work with Ubuntu. right now parents are here , so i gotta use Windows :P
 
But it begins to rust the moment you take it out (it's a great IDE despite its flaws)
 
@user5600875 Depends. Usually the compiler does the right thing. But that isn't the case when the code-size is too large and there are too many things that need to be inlined.
It's very unpredictable. And varies heavily across compilers and compiler versions. So the only way to guarantee that that 15 levels of "zero-overhead" abstractions remain "zero-overhead" is to actually force-inline it.
And then look at the assembly to make sure it actually is inlined. Hence that massive assembly dump to the right in that screenshot.
 
@user5600875 To put it simply, good coding practice means the cost of choosing one or the other will be very small. Bad coding practice amplifies the costs of your design decisions.
 
hmm kk. i always had this thing about inline functions
 
5:25 AM
In that screenshot alone, each instruction you see there was probably the result of 3 or 4 levels of inlined function calls. So that loop in the middle is at least a hundred functions in source code.
 
Same idea as saving money; if you spend all your money, you can't afford to make mistakes
 
it specifically states : "it suggests that the compiler insert the complete body of the function in every context where that function is used ". Well then i tried this:
#include <stdio.h>

inline void hello()
{
    printf("%s" , s);
}
int main(int argc, char **argv)
{
    const char *s = "Hello World";
	hello();
	return 0;
}
 
The inline specifier is useless except for the multi-definition semantics.
 
it gives me s is not defined. but dosent it replace the function call to the body of function? Why wouldn't it know what s is then?
 
What you need is a force-inline specifier. Which strictly speaking, is not standard compliant, but every major compiler supports it in some fasion.
 
5:27 AM
force-inline . not a keyword :(
 
@user5600875 Your problem is that s exists in main, so the compiler doesn't see s when it starts compiling hello()
 
Ohhh @Aaron3468 i see!!!
 
But I highly recommend you move s into the only place it needs to exist; as an argument for hello(). The reason is that having more than 1 or 2 functions know about things outside of themselves makes it hard to tell which function changed s.
 
yea i see. it was just a test
 
Alrighty :) You'll get better at catching those bugs as you improve.
 
5:38 AM
Thanks. Gotta sleep now. Good Night Everyone!
 
shit starring everywhere
 
yeah...
 
Dear god he wants to do OS dev and he barely knows how the language works.
 
I wasn't expecting this (I laughed hard): upload.ee/image/5997588/flipping.png
 
It's good that he's learning though.
@Aaron3468 $200 for case and RAM is a bit excessive, no?
 
5:45 AM
He's got the right attitude. The self-assurance and experience will come after he's failed and succeeded a some more
 
You could get the Fractal Design Define R5 mid-tower for $80 and 16 GB of DDR4 for $60.
 
@Nooble Absolutely! those and the MoBo are easiest to cut costs on (and DDR3 prices and the Canadian D suck rn)
 
I remember paying $200 for 32GB of ram for my laptop. That was almost a year ago. Now it's already dropped a lot.
 
@Mysticial Truly.
 
128GB in a desktop is doable for well under a grand.
 
5:47 AM
I remember 16 GB of DDR4 being $220.
 
Which does have me tempted, since I regularly run out of 64GB when I have my ram drive enabled.
 
@Mysticial The entire desktop?
 
But wouldn't know what to do with my existing sticks.
@Nooble Just the ram.
 
You can get a 8 x 16 GB kit for $750ish.
Just need a motherboard that has 8 slots.
 
I think the cheapest X99 boards are around $200?
And the cheapest chips for them at the 6-cores haswell which are around $350 or something.
 
5:50 AM
$1000-2000 seems to be the sweetspot for high performance pc builds right now
 
I paid a grand for my 64GB. But that was December 2014.
 
@Aaron3468 Yeah.
Look at these new GPUs.
GTX 980 performance for $250.
That was a $550+ on release IIRC.
 
The 970 is a great compromise considering it's a less stringent 980. AMD tends to outperform Nvidia at the expense of heating up the pc. Do you think the new 1080 and titan x deflated the prices?
 
Even 970 is overkill for me. But that was the lowest option for my laptop.
 
@Aaron3468 Didn't.
The GTX 970 is still $280 or so.
And performs a lot worse than the $250 1060 and AMD RX-480.
 
5:53 AM
I bought it the first month or so, and it had been ~$450 CAD
 
Which both are on par with the 980.
Yeah the 970 was the sweet spot then.
@Mysticial 970M?
 
@Nooble yeah
Akiba's Trip runs very smoothly on that laptop. :)
 
I think that's a desktop 960 equivalent then. Which released for $200 I think.
Aren't you the one with a 750Ti or something?
 
But compiling takes half an hour.
 
But then super expensive components everywhere else :P
 
5:55 AM
That laptop came with 16GB of ram. And it would use like half of that on a fresh boot.
I need at least 30+ GB to compile.
 
I wonder if gpu accelerated compilation would be an effective thing
 
So it was somewhat of a fucking disaster.
 
I never use more than 8 GB of RAM.
What are you compiling
 
Just my Pi program.
 
oh
 
5:57 AM
^ It calculates trillions of digits for mathematical constants
 
yeah
you know
 
The highest out-of-the-box gaming laptop had only 32GB of ram. And cost a fortune.
 
just my record breaking program
no big deal
 
So I went with the cheaper model and shoved my own 32GB sticks in there for 48GB.
 
kinky
 
5:58 AM
That enough for both compiling and a ram drive. But not at the same time.
 
Are RAM drives that great.
 
The 64GB in my desktop isn't quite enough to do both at the same time either.
So far it isn't that bad since my ram drive program only needs like 10 seconds to enable/disable the drive.
 
RAM is pretty much the fastest memory there is, though I wonder if USB becomes a bottleneck
 
My old one took like 1 min. / GB.
 
Yeah it's fast I know. But what can you use to take advantage of it.
 

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