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12:00 AM
"let's take away 1 bit of precision and present it out of band for no good reason"
You may as well use MM/DD/YY, yards, nanocenturies or yet another silly unit
 
@Mysticial Heh
 
Wow, I'm already falling asleep.
Bye.
 
@Morwenn Night
 
@Borgleader Thnaks :)
 
@Morwenn You're wlecome
 
12:10 AM
I remember that you were the first one to consistently wish me a good night :D
 
@Morwenn Good night bby
 
Ven
12:29 AM
Nighty
@Aaron3468 meh
It's a lot of legalese
Page 98!
 
12:48 AM
wow that's a big page number
 
@milleniumbug it’s not out of band
 
 
2 hours later…
2:51 AM
are there more shootings nowadays or more coverage on the shootings by the media?
or both?
 
both
 
user406009
3:04 AM
@Telkitty Maybe more in other countries, but the US hasn't really seen a lot more shootings.
 
user406009
If only because there are lots of shootings in the US.
 
s/shootings/shootings & terrorist attacks/
 
@Lalaland not close to as much compared to others?
 
user406009
@user5600875 The US has a lot of shootings.
 
Have you seen how many shootings appears every day on other countries @Lalaland ?
 
Haha , very trusted site im sure.
 
user406009
The WSJ is one of the more trusted and respected US news sources.
 
user406009
With the small caveat that they have a conservative bias.
 
Yea , that is mass murder @Lalaland as i see it
im was talking about shootings
one person shooting , two , so on
USA Does not obiously lead in that.. there are much more terrible countries out there
 
3:52 AM
> The U.S. represents less than 5% of the 7.3 billion global population but accounted for 31% of global mass shooters during the period from 1966 to 2012, more than any other country
In light of the USA having the highest gun ownership per capita and relatively lax ownership regulations, I would say that, at very least, such a statistically significant variance warrants further investigation.
As far as first-world countries go, it has the gun fatalities per capita of a third-world country...
 
 
1 hour later…
5:12 AM
Ok Good NIght guys
I really gtg.. 1AM here :-(
 
 
3 hours later…
7:50 AM
 
8:22 AM
There seems to be more shootings & terrorist attacks on the news currently, almost new ones occur on weekly basis. Although statistically, there are still way less than 7000 fatalities because of them per year. Out of a 7 billion population base, it's a very very small percentage.
 
8:40 AM
Wow, almost nothing happened after I went to sleep :o
 
I'VE BEEN FUCKING WRITING A PROOF TO FUCKING WHY WE DON'T FLY OFF THE EARTH FOR 20 MINUTES AND THE FUCKING WINDOW CLOSED
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
 
@Morwenn We were waiting for our queen to grace us once again with her presence ;)
 
nwp
@Morwenn without you there is no point in chatting ♥
 
Aw :3
 
@ChemiCalChems What about all the missions to space?
 
8:42 AM
On the other hand I'll be out almost all of today because I have tunes to record.
 
@Morwenn I didn't know you where a record type!
 
@fredoverflow the guy argues the earth spinning at 1000 mph should a considerable effect. oops, only 0.03 m/s²
 
@fredoverflow I'm a record of notes and tunes.
Nah, honestly I should be working. I don't really know the tunes yet.
 
Oh that's cool! Are they going anywhere I might here?
 
@ChemiCalChems So the guy believes we should fly off the earth until you prove him wrong? How about, you know, the freaking evidence that we're all still here?
 
8:44 AM
@fredoverflow that proves him that the earth doesn't spin!
 
@ChemiCalChems Does he believe in a geocentric space model?
 
nwp
@ChemiCalChems if you get into the habit of figuring this sort of stuff out for others with no compensation you will die as an old grumpy man in a year or so
 
@Morwenn yes, flat earth
@nwp the compensation is fucking truth for everyone
 
flat earth
 
flat memory model
 
8:51 AM
Speaking of compensation, it's time for me to look for some. Do companies generally expect bachelor's to hire entry-level/junior/trainee programmers?
 
@ChemiCalChems Eh, don't even bother with guys like him. Just tell him to find anyone that believes in flat earth theory and can develop a working GPS on this model before pursuing the discussion.
 
nwp
@Aaron3468 by hire you mean apply as?
 
And seriously, geographical projections are so painful to deal with that nobody would have bothered to invent them (except for mathematicians) if planets were flat.
 
Yes, I changed the grammatical subject to accentuate my uncertainty
 
I think you need to be at least enrolled in uni in the process of getting a CS/Science/engineering degree to be considered for entry-level/junior/trainee programmer role
 
nwp
8:57 AM
bachelor doesn't mean university degree?
 
undergrad degree, yes. I got my first programming job while still studying in uni 2 year before I actually got my undergrad degrees
 
it's fucking done
@Morwenn I'll do so if he comes back, thanks
 
nwp
well, in my country it is well understood that universities don't teach any programming, so I doubt they value a masters much
 
I have a lot of programming background and I'm a uni student, but it will be a year before I'm eligible to become a comp sci student (missed it by 0.2 gpa)
 
nwp
you can just look at job adds, and if you qualify for over 1/3 of what they want you can apply
my CPU changes from 600MHz to over 3GHz depending on load. I wonder if I can say "stay below 2GHz" to get the fan quieter at the cost of performance.
 
9:04 AM
I'll apply for a few hope to receive interviews then. I have enough proficiency to enter the field, though I still need to refer to docs when I encounter esoteric parts of languages
 
i'm going to make myself a document where i save everything these guys normally ask for, and combine parts of the document as needed
 
You guys are probably better than me in programming when I first graduated from uni. I was terrible at it back then :p
 
it's the best way to keep on the fight without losing time
 
@nwp Buy a quieter fan like this one. Fluid dynamic bearings are very quiet and they last a very long time
 
nwp
@Aaron3468 laptop :(
 
9:06 AM
I replaced my grandma's cpu fan with that and she was seriously weirded out by not hearing her computer... Oh. Damn. Overclocking utilities might be able to limit clock cycles (though it depends on the BIOS)
 
nwp
@ChemiCalChems or you just punish their ignorance by not replying. Also doesn't lose time.
 
@Telkitty But look how far you've come :3
 
@nwp my point is we can't abandon science. it's given us modern life, we need to fight for it
 
Thanks to years of on job training at many places :p
 
Ben
@Telkitty lol, I started Uni last week.
 
9:08 AM
@Ben congratulation :)
 
nwp
@ChemiCalChems uhm... no we don't. Some people will learn and make awesome stuff. Others will say "there is no such things as cars and smartphones" and be screwed their whole life.
and it is their choice
 
@nwp fuck it you are right, i'm just a masochist i guess
 
@Ben Word of advice from a 2nd year peer. You will need to study much harder than you think you do
 
Ell
@milleniumbug I'm sure there was a good reason
Originally
 
@nwp What country is that?
 
9:11 AM
@nwp Bring back the Nokia 3330 and horse and cart! :p
 
I got slapped hard by my poor 1st year study habits
 
You had study habits? Wow
 
nwp
@fredoverflow germany. may just be my berlin uni though, I'm over-generalizing and a bit bitter.
 
I knew nothing about programming before I entered uni, but in the next 6.5 years after I entered uni, I had to learn accounting, commercial law, economics, finance, electrical circuits, digital systems, maths, physics, optical, telecommunications etc ... and programming. I knew very little of any of those courses other than maths and physics before I started uni. So when I finally graduated from uni, I was still not very good at programming.
 
nwp
> "programming is beneath a CS student. They float in higher spheres"
 
9:14 AM
@fredoverflow Ikr? I thought 'I'm in university now, so I should study'. But I only committed about 5 hours more per week than I did in highschool (none)...
@Telkitty Whoa, which course? That's a huge variety of topics
 
I have 2 undergrad degrees and 1 postgrad degree: B. Engineering & B. Commerce, Master in Business
 
Have you found it to be worthwhile and have you had loan trouble?
 
nwp
@Telkitty wow, looks like you actually got an education. I got... turing machines and some OS, databases, compilers, 2 weeks of Java, 1 week of prologue, 2 weeks of C ... and of course integrals
 
@Aaron3468 Real knowledge is never worthless :)
@nwp but you have also spent less time on studying :)
 
nwp
@Telkitty wouldn't count on that. If you only study half the time it takes about twice as long. And thats pretty long.
but that is mostly my fault
 
9:19 AM
Put it this way: if you just want a good job, then studying such wide fields is not worth it. But if you want to realise your true potential, more knowledge is always better.
 
nwp
I'd put it this way: You are too busy with courses that you have no time to study, let alone realize your potential.
 
That is true. My first year was open studies (undeclared) while I upgraded at another institution because one of my sciences wasn't considered valid for admission. I applied for CS this year, but they chose to evaluate me on my post-secondary credit only and I fell 0.2gpa short of admission. So... I'm open studies for a second year
In other words, I'm forced to study half-time until I am admitted to a faculty
 
nwp
@Aaron3468 that sucks. Here they just take pretty much anyone, but since you don't actually learn much I suppose that is fair.
 
Wtf that's basically doxxing
What the hell wikileaks
4
 
9:23 AM
@nwp But that's uni, I have never met someone who found uni very easy and I hang around with many intelligent people over the time
commerce/business degrees are easier than engineering degrees
 
nwp
uni is not that hard, just very time and energy consuming, especially when you also work 20h a week
additionally doing something useful on the side is really hard
 
yeah, I was never good with juggling between work and study either
 
I think it's two-fold. University is time-consuming, and because it acts as a gate, it must become more time consuming as students become more adept.
 
also very easy!= not hard
I mean if you are doing marketing, it could be easy, so when I mentioned 'not very easy' I was referring to engineering/advanced maths & computer science to a newb
 
I either apply for loans/work now, or this will be the last year my savings can cover tuition costs. Not sure if I should do loans so early, but I'm also bad at juggling
 
9:27 AM
i'm quite creeped out, tbh
i'm planning on studying cs + maths and work at the same time
well, work
code or smth
 
nwp
someone said uni produces scientists. If you learn everything your profs know you failed uni. If you can push the boundaries of knowledge past your profs in just one area you succeeded. I like that ideal.
3
 
University teaches you to teach yourself. And naturally, to then teach others.
 
nwp
@ChemiCalChems totally doable. It eats some motivation when you learn uni doesn't do anything relevant to your job and you will not finish as quickly as you would want, but doable.
 
@nwp then i'll do it
 
@Aaron3468 I agree on the part that 'university teaches you to teach yourself'. It's a very valuable skill to have in real life too
 
nwp
9:31 AM
but that ideal is fading. Turns out industry doesn't need scientists, they need workers.
 
@nwp IOW, if you can't even learn everything your profs know, then you're an epic failure.
 
@nwp workplace needs workers, this world still needs scientists/innovators
 
nwp
@Mysticial well, profs know a lot. It is unfeasible learning everything someone 30 years experience ahead of you knows, let alone 10 or so. It is more about the idea of increasing knowledge.
 
I hear many people in industries quote that there is a chronic lack of talent. I think the problem is that industry needs a good combination of worker/innovator, but generally finds one or the other.
 
nwp
I guess there are many 20 year olds that say "shit, I need to be able to support myself now, but I don't know anything! I know! I'll just learn some programming in a week and earn massive moneys!". Those are the reported 90% that fail fizzbuzz.
 
9:37 AM
@ChemiCalChems btw, if you pursue statistics and math, look into a field called operational research. You can work towards a certificate while pursuing your degree. The field is about applying algorithms and data to help companies make efficient choices (usually in manufacturing, like finding the least wasteful way to cut copper sheets)
 
@Aaron3468 i was planning on coding games and stuff
but yeah, maybe working in somethingwould also be a good option
thanks
 
Then it wouldn't hurt to take a handful of arts/history classes as electives :D
 
I am always amazed that how infrequently people thinking about "what's my goal". When I talked to a friend, she told me the goal is to make money. She failed to understand that some people have ambitions other than to make as much money as possible.
 
@nwp lol, I can confirm that. So many of my peers try to do it... I've been coding since I was 11 and I'm at the point where I don't program unless it's a fun project or I'm being paid ^^;
But I've almost always got fun projects going
 
Money is a tool not a goal
 
nwp
9:42 AM
unless you are and stay money capped, then pursuing money as the end goal makes sense
 
Ven
i'm docrep capped
 
nwp
and a lot of people just crank up their standards of living to eat any amount of money
 
I'm always shocked when my sister buys new things and I later learn that it was because she got new money... and spent it within a few days
 
Since this is a capitalist world, money is a very good tool. So obviously, having as much money is a very good way to help you reaching your goal. But still money is a tool not a goal. I find whoever don't understand this point is either very dumb or have a very sad life
 
nwp
If you are constantly starving and cannot perceive a world where you are actually full it makes sense to center your life around acquiring food, even though people who do get full tell you that food isn't everything.
 
9:48 AM
when I said sad life I did say it with great sympathy :p
 
<Always pursuing fun hobbies and forgetting to eat, but can secretly afford to eat out all the time because I don't spend much money
 
nwp
constantly starving counts as sad life, so it is not even a contradiction
 
I think spending money buys the way out of unhappiness, but everything past that is a result only of the way you spend time
 
nwp
but scientists are kind of the same way, they center their life around knowledge. Not sure if you can get knowledge capped though. But the same argument applies, knowledge isn't everything, live your life!
 
I'm off for the night. I need to see a doctor tomorrow because I might be developing shingles =.=
Have a good night everyone!
 
Ben
10:01 AM
@Aaron3468 night.
 
10:24 AM
I'm bored. Shall I beer?
 
@Morwenn only if you 're sharing :p
 
@JonClements Are you coming?
 
Does that involve moving? Not sure I'm keen on that... Isn't there a way to send beer via chat yet - or should I make a feature-request :p
 
There's a unicode character for beer but that's pretty much it.
 
10:33 AM
Of course robot would know it :p
 
@Morwenn (Moewenn takes out a frozen tuna from the fridge and hides behind the door)
 
10:54 AM
yo
@Aaron3468 How?
@Nooble Happy birthday bby
 
@Morwenn Bah... what use are these computers and internet if you can't send beer to a person...
 
nwp
@JonClements at least we can send beer to dogs
 
beer for dogs?
heh, apparently cats also like it
 
11:09 AM
@nwp alcohol free? Screw that... gimme the proper stuff :p
 
11:22 AM
ugh you can't vote for improvement request on docs
you can't comment on that
the whole process is basically whoever the fuck gets to click "approve" or "reject" first
I would not care about it so hard if not for the ridiculous rep potential
Maybe we just have to accept that rep has devalued to bullshit
 
nwp
either that or they remove or separate the rep
 
they won't do it
 
nwp
either way contributing to docs for rep doesn't make sense
 
although what we could do
is make a browser extension that would do a query into SO's base and get person's real rep
oh actually reminds me
I was supposed to make another meta post
 
@BartekBanachewicz About?
 
11:31 AM
@mil what?
 
@Shoe making docs rep only count for until the content grows twice in size
to discourage posting small shitty topics and encourage editing the large ones
right now people think it's fun to write docs because you can post a lot of small stuff and get a lot of rep
but the real, tedious part of doing docs is maintenance
 
bleh
i are a little sick
 
@thepiercingarrow what what
 
@milleniumbug what what what
 
in th ebutt
 
11:47 AM
BTW
want some C++ancer?
 
Ben
@Bartek wait, you use cinder too?
 
@Ben I had the misfortune yesterday
I probably should make a PR that fixes their crap
because otherwise noone will
 
nwp
> #define private public
like a boss
 
@BartekBanachewicz gaems
 
11:52 AM
wait wait wait, why don't they simply call read with the number of bytes that's passed as an argument
 
@Puppy I need to drink my coffee, then get some groceries, then codementor
on the evening
 
bah
 
@milleniumbug because (bad) abstractions
I mean I suppose what could be done to alleviate it would be checking for data before calling read
but that still sucks
you're gonna make two calls instead of one with exactly the same result
 
@BartekBanachewicz I don't get it
 
@milleniumbug they block manually until they read all the bytes you requested
it's dumb.
 
11:57 AM
yeah, but why do they do this instead of
4 mins ago, by milleniumbug
wait wait wait, why don't they simply call read with the number of bytes that's passed as an argument
 
Wait
std::set are comparable
Oh lexicographically
TIL
Wait, but that still doesn't make sense to me
 
@milleniumbug because they're bad?
 
A set is by definition not ordered
 
Since you have specified ordering on all elements, the implementation of operator< is trivial
 
Even though std::set has an ordering
But that's just a side effect of the implementation
Mathematically speaking it makes no sense to compare two sets
 
12:00 PM
@Shoe you're thinking about unordered_set
@Shoe std::set is not a mathematical set
 
@BartekBanachewicz okay, I'm gonna post the comment there
 
> In computer science, a set is an abstract data type that can store certain values, without any particular order, and no repeated values.
In computer science, a set is an abstract data type that can store certain values, without any particular order, and no repeated values. It is a computer implementation of the mathematical concept of a finite set. Unlike most other collection types, rather than retrieving a specific element from a set, one typically tests a value for membership in a set. Some set data structures are designed for static or frozen sets that do not change after they are constructed. Static sets allow only query operations on their elements — such as checking whether a given value is in the set, or enumerating the...
 
@milleniumbug isn't that exactly what I'm asking
 
> It is a computer implementation of the mathematical concept of a finite set.
 
@Shoe std::set isn't an abstract data type either.
 
12:03 PM
So in the concept of "set" it's important to distinguish how you define the set itself specification wise?
 
@Shoe what
 
Not that it has specific characteristics
 
you're mixing concepts with actual implementations
 
I'm actually saying that implementation is irrelevant
 
std::set is a C++ container. It bears some resemblance to the concept of a set.
That's it.
 
12:04 PM
A set as a concept is modelled after the mathematical model of the set
 
ITT Shoe learns that different things could have similar names
 
Ben
@BartekBanachewicz It is?
 
@Shoe It's very much relevant if you're talking about a specific implementation of a concept.
 
And that can be also seen in the characteristics of the implementation
 
Ben
no, nevermind.
 
12:05 PM
Let me shock you further @Shoe: C# has IList<T> which is random-access
 
@milleniumbug gasp
how dare they
 
user1804599
got a nice new avatar
 
user1804599
paint skills
 
it's as nice as 3rd wave feminism
 
user1804599
12:06 PM
free-hand
 
> Sets can be implemented using various data structures, which provide different time and space trade-offs for various operations.
 
user1804599
A Boolean-returning function is my favourite! It has the trade-off that you can't enumerate it!
 
user1804599
Unless you can enumerate the domain. :v
 
Also
It's a set because it has all the relevant operations
 
12:08 PM
Funnily enough the Set (abstract data type) also references std::set
 
The fact that std::set has some more is irrelevant
It's a set
 
user1804599
 
@sehe Human frog
 
Ben
I think we need to jump to conclusions a little more often here.
 
@rightfold lol
 
12:12 PM
@Ben If you jump - to conclusion - that's done. Time to implement the next RFC
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz do you know ANF?
 
what's ANF
 
Ben
what's RFC?
 
user1804599
Administrative normal form.
 
user1804599
Request for comments.
 
12:18 PM
> I got drunk three nights in a row recently.
> No!
> Yes! Cuz Christmas!
guess who said that
 
naah
it's not that easy
I should take just the audio clip
as a hint
but effort
 
@BartekBanachewicz Adele
@rightfold or change
 
12:33 PM
@sehe holy fuck
you're good ;)
 
That was extremely simple
 
did you cheat
 
12:49 PM
i don't undestand why the small angle approximation holds
i do understand that in value, a = sin(a) for a close to 0
but they're not equal in units
a is a angle, so it's dimensionless, and sin(a) is a distance, so it does have dimesions
or is it that regardless of their units, they are close in value?
that may be it
 
Isn't it time to change the room status?
 
nwp
> We discuss whether nuking places is the right thing to do.
we should also add
> Now with a language from the future!
 
fuck
I saw a dumb feminist on the internet again
send help
why is this recommended to me
do i look like a masochist
 
autorecommendations ftw
 
nwp
1:02 PM
 
sin(a) is dimensionless as well
 
it's the same mechanism where you're trying to buy a thing from an internet shop, you haven't even confirmed the order, and suddenly, all of the ads display the identical product
 
> This may sound easy. But it is not. Most of us, most of the time, get sucked in by life’s mean trivialities, steamrolled by its unimportant dramas; we live and die by the sidenotes and distractions and vicissitudes
that's so true
 
why is anything relevant if the heat death of the universe will happen
and proton decay
 
nwp
because you can make a ton of really neat stuff before those become a problem
 
1:06 PM
@milleniumbug because steaks are fucking great man
besides, earth is a sandbox
quite literally
when you start a minecraft server you're not like "oh I'm gonna to delete this one day so why bother building anything"
you go and you build shit like crazy
 
fair point
 
life doesn't need a grand purpose or an end goal to be worth living
 
Life doesn't need to be worth living.
 
I think it's really all about what you make it all about
Mark Marson's book looks interesting btw
 
Now I start to looking down on wikileak - you would think its only goal is to show the truth, nothing but truth. It seems it has its own ugly agenda
sad
seemingly shining thing is just another cult
so much so for revealing nothing but truth
 
1:19 PM
Let's just drop a nuke on the US.
 
user406009
@nwp If only GPAs were correlated to that.
 
user406009
If anything, it's an inverse relation.
 
No, let's support wikileaks and make trump win. World would destroy itself
 
I've heard people say that Trump is the president the US deserves :p
12
 
user3790646
Bartek is back!
 
1:22 PM
@Morwenn I agree :p
 
user406009
It's OK. Trump won't win. Hopefully.
 
user406009
 
user3790646
 
user3790646
This is so funny
 
Ven
laff moar
 
1:35 PM
so funny
So apparently there's this thing
practiced by entitled cisgender white male programmers
where you move out to some island and work remotely
and the island is prepared for that with net connection and stuff
> Bitcoin will be the only accepted currency on Silicon Island.
okay I just lost interest
 
I lost interest at « work ».
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz ? Were some feminists arguing against it or something?
 
@Lalaland nah but it's a funny thing to say
> An island-wide Sonos playlist of the latest dubstep hits will be blasting in all communal areas, 24 hours a day.
okay now I think this is just a joke
 
user406009
Yeah. I think it is a joke as well.
 
user406009
But people have actually proposed similar ideas.
 
user406009
1:41 PM
Usually with boats though instead of islands.
 
user406009
 
the idea of making it on international waters is funny
I wonder if it could really work
like, legal-wise
this is wtf
 
@Lalaland Also this one :p
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz In what way?
 
a) it's from Khronos
 
user406009
1:45 PM
@BartekBanachewicz IIRC, the main issues are funding and protection.
 
b) it actually seems to be tightly controlled by nVidia
 
user406009
Like who is going to protect your ship if you get attacked by pirates.
 
heh, 21st century pirates
it's almost unreal when you think about it
@Lalaland Imagine larger-scale revolution mid-island
that could be way worse
 
Too much alcohol in everyone's blood to be revolution-ready.
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz You could have revolution on any boat. That's not a problem unique to these "ship states" (sorta like "city states")
 
1:50 PM
but it could be exacerbated there
dunno
 
> They say one in three people live next to a pedophile. Not me - I live next to two smokin hot 8-year olds and some niggas
 
so how many people live next to 2 or more pedophiles?
 
also yet another slap in the face of Google
 

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