« first day (2083 days earlier)      last day (2866 days later) » 

11:10 AM
> Sehr geehrter Deutsche Bank Kunde,

wir bemühen uns stets, Ihre Sicherheit auf dem höchsten Niveau zu halten.
Kürzlich haben wir unser Sicherheitssystem verbessert und optimiert um Sie noch besser vor Betrug zu schützen.

Bedingt durch die neuen Sicherheitsrichtlinien bitten wir Sie, Ihre Daten, sowie Ihre Mobilfunknummer zu aktualisieren und Ihr Konto den neuen Standarts anzupassen.
This is interesting, because I am not a member of that Bank
I guess they should try to protect me from themselves
 
Xeo
> Standarts
welp
 
../deps/v8/src/bignum.cc:82:6: warning: assuming signed overflow does not occur when assuming that (X + c) < X is always false [-Wstrict-overflow]
 
11:25 AM
Ok, so turns out powerline communication will not work as brilliantly as I anticipated it to
 
Ell
@Columbo why not?
 
@Ell It seems that other devices can cause connection issues
etc.
Is it just me or does Antonio Conte look like he could be a Bond antagonist
@Ell Although I was impressed with the fact that the wave superposition works so flawlessly most of the time. Clever
 
11:42 AM
@Columbo clearly a scam
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes No shit
:D
 
Xeo
@Mysticial Whatever the case, just play the games.
 
nwp
@Columbo you know it's a scam because in the politically correct world of today it would need to be "Sehr geehrtx Deutsche Bank Kundx"
I wonder if foreigners support german gender people because they don't want to learn the gender endings
 
No, it wouldn't, because in a proper system, they would respect my gender
You only use generic endings when you don't know the gender
 
12:08 PM
Whenever I get a boner over something weird I'm going to call it a 'nonnormative erection' from now on. @RealPeerReview
 
12:52 PM
@sehe yes, that’s the whole justification for copy/move elision. if it weren’t allowed to elide in the face of side-effects, then we wouldn’t need those rules, a compiler could elide under as-if.
(under current rules elision is never guaranteed though)
 
Xeo
Doesn't '17 add guaranteed elision or sth tho?
 
Guaranteed copy elision, yes.
 
never heard of it
 
Xeo
Your notice was just elided.
 
would be useful if Luc didn't have me on ignore
:P
 
Xeo
12:59 PM
he does?
43 secs ago, by Griwes
http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/p0135r0.html
 
Note
never, ever, enable IPFW
 
@Xeo I'm pretty sure he does.
@BartekBanachewicz As in IP forwarding?
 
no, it's a firewall.

Go to Discord(tm) to read the full discussion.
 
1:16 PM
@LucDanton oooh yeah, makes sense. A little
 
@Xeo I guess you’ve never heard of 'never heard of it' huh. key part: 'under current rules'. unless, of course, I have knowledge of the future.
 
1:36 PM
@LucDanton "installed ntpd on the servers"
@набиячлэвэлиь someone is stealing MY PRECIOUS MAYMAYS
 
is this solution to having multiple monitors on the desk?
https://techcrunch.com/2016/06/28/office-in-vr/
 
2/10 can’t have multiple VR headsets on at the same time
 
1:52 PM
Indeed vr is still at an infant stage like nokia back in 2000s .
 
Herro
Does anyone have a minuete to look at 4 lines of code, and is familiar with memory management cross platforms? (I have a piece of code that works on my machine 20/20 times, but only 12/20 times on someone else's machine, and I found a fix that makes it work on both machines 20/20, but the fix makes no sense to me.) The other 8/20 times he gets Illegal file open (/dev/tty)
 
nwp
2:12 PM
is there a reason for constexpr_else? Why would the else not inherit the constexpredness from the if?
 
@nwp Please wait for the post-meeting mailing to see the final version of the proposal that was accepted. :P
 
@nwp Oh wait, the previous revision of the paper actually doesn't differ too much (I think only in CWG-suggested wording changes): open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2016/p0292r1.html
R2 of the above appeared during the meeting, so it'll be available in the post-meeting mailing.
 
2:29 PM
@Mysticial a great amount of butt pain, this one feels
 
Example 2 from Gallery of Processor Cache Effects kinda explains why linear search over a small array is faster than binary search. The cost of iterating the elements covered by a cache-line is less than the cost of fetching the cache line itself.
 
@Borgleader There's also this one. Two guys in particular are butthurt. One of them is a very familiar name who gets butthurt on a regular basis on meta.
21
Q: Are questions asking for feature sets of specific software versions on topic?

zero298I've seen a few questions that ask what features are available in a certain software release. Are these questions on topic? A while ago, I thought that I had read a criteria that recommended avoiding questions that could lead to list like responses, but I cannot find it now. The reasoning was ...

 
2:44 PM
Found another compiler bug in VC++
And it's blocking me from continuing.
Really sick of VC++'s shit.
 
Use a compiler instead of a cimploler
 
@ThePhD What did you do this time?
 
@Mysticial I added a transformation on a parameter pack. And VC++ throws out a bogus error.
template <typename... Args>
struct blah {
     typedef std::tuple<Args...> type;
};
^ Fine
template <typename... Args>
struct blah {
     typedef std::tuple<std::decay_t<Args>...> type;
};
^ Also Fine
template <typename... Args>
struct blah {
     typedef std::tuple<my_trait_t<Args>...> type;
};
^ WEE WOO WEE WOO WEE WOO
 
VS probably isn't the best place to be doing variadics.
Or templates in general.
 
Yeah. But I'm kind of sick of filing bugs against VC++ and hoping it's maybe-not-really-fixed for the next update.
Meanwhile, I have to find a workaround so I can ship product.
 
2:50 PM
I once compiled a simplest variadic function ever on MSVC2013
...guess what happened
 
ICE?
 
yep ICE
 
well done
 
Ven
3:05 PM
the big bro of an ICE is a BSoD
 
Fucking
Holy shit it doesn't repro in a smaller case anymore
THIS
COMPILEERERER
FUCKING
How am I supposed to file fucking bugs
I can't fucking repro in a smaller sample.
But it COMPILES cleanly in every other compiler.
Fucking wadjkawdjkawdhawdawjwafh VISUAL C++ WHY.
 
don't file bug reports, they'll get closed as WONTFIX either way
 
3:21 PM
let them figure it out by themselves
 
nwp
@milleniumbug thats a pretty horrible attitude towards bug reports
 
@nwp They have a pretty horrible attitude towards working software.
int f () {
auto fx = []() {
     if (cond)
          goto bark;
     do_complex_calc();
};
fx();
bark:
     return;
}
^ legal?
 
nwp
how could that possibly be legal?
 
I have a dream.
 
lol cross-function gotos
 
3:36 PM
@ThePhD lol that'll never work
 
If I can't do that, then I can't stop from iterating over 49 other useless conditions int his parameter pack.
 
try BASIC
 
Because I can't insert if conditionals and shit inside the parameter pack that stop the expanded computation.
It's kind've dumb.
 
@ThePhD Drop MSVC support. That's the easiest solution x)
 
fold expr and short circuiting? oh wait... let me guess those are not supported?
 
3:38 PM
@Morwenn That's like 60% of my userbase. Unfortunately.
@Borgleader Probably not in VC++
 
@ThePhD Tell them to give you money for MSVC support.
 
It's an MIT-licensed framework. I'm not getting any money for this. .-.
 
That's getting money ahead: if they don't give money, you don't MSVC. The license does not matter.
View it as a donation stuff.
 
> Uncaught ReferenceError: StackExchange.ready is not defined
Does someone else have issues with SO right now
 
Or let them implement MSVC support :D
 
3:43 PM
@Borgleader Just checked: definitely not in VC++.
 
That's sort or the reason why I go with at minimum both MSVC and GCC throughout the entire process. Anything that breaks on one, I back off from or find a work-around. That way I don't get into a difficult situation where 50k LOC need to be redone because they all use some broken construct in one of the compilers.
It's gone both ways, where I've had to turn on entire optimizations because they use something that is missing or broken either GCC or MSVC.
 
4:20 PM
@StackedCrooked I've been telling people that for years. stackoverflow.com/a/16863451/179910 :-)
> For just a really trivial example, this can mean that a linear search can be much more competitive with a binary search than you'd expect. Once you've loaded one item from a cache line, using the rest of the data in that cache line is almost free. A binary search becomes noticeably faster only when the data is large enough that the binary search reduces the number of cache lines you access.
> May 31 '13 at 18:18
 
4:39 PM
hipster
 
4:50 PM
The recursive reversal of a singly-linked list is "pretty cool".
 
Ven
Hm-mh.
 
Here's the solution in Java (it's simple!) pastebin.com/6TzN1fHZ
 
rip indentation (also ew java)
 
it takes me back to the times when I haven't been indenting at all
and this was because indenting was a total pain in the Free Pascal editor
 
5:03 PM
Ugh.
For the sake of compilation speed, I now have to decide whether or not I'm going to have a slight breaking change (which will affect a very tiny amount of advanced users), or if I'm going to do this thing here to increase compilation times for everyone who's not opted into the advanced system.
Or perhaps... there's another way.
What if I change all of the enumerations into their own hard types.
It's not like -anyone- uses any of the enum values as an actual runtime value: they're just indicators...
 
Can't you provide a migration path?
Maybe a macro for opting-in to the old behaviour.
Or to the new one, depending on how fast you want to push this.
 
nwp
or a clang-tidy mode to auto-change old into new code
 
Definitely not "or", no.
 
I think I have a semi-backwards-compatible way of doing this that will not break any code in a kind of cheeky way.
Basically, I have an enumeration that is basically just a bunch of compile-time flags. Nobody ever instantiates the enumeration and then changes it's values.
 
nwp
"Nobody ever" is a code for "breaking change"
 
5:10 PM
I could change the enum values to instead be like static const members on a class, and thusly lift what is a runtime decision (the value of the enum) to a compile-time decision (a type that has a single object instantiated in the names of the old enum).
If I do this, I can kick in a heavy optimization that will reduce compile times by minutes for some people.
It's technically breaking, yes. But nobody uses those flags / enum values and then changes them. They're just hard aliases for string names.
 
@JossieCalderon Here's a iterative solution in C++. It's hardly enough more complex to care about (arguably, maybe even less complex), and (of course) won't overflow the stack.
@ThePhD Do you really mean "increase compilation times"? At least offhand, that doesn't sound like a particularly good thing.
Maybe I'm just confoozzled though.
 
@JerryCoffin Oops, yeah, I meant "reduce compilation times".
 
@ThePhD Ah, okay.
 
nwp
either breaking change or increase compilation times sounds right
 
Basically, one user is passing 78-ish member functions + string names into a variadic template.
 
nwp
5:19 PM
either breaking change or reduce compilation times doesn't seem like a trade-off
 
And he's complaining about the amount of time it takes to compile.
Other users aren't as bad: they do like 30 or 28 or less.
So they're not being hit as badly by long tuple names and stuff. I already stopped using template recursion to unpack things, which got rid of some warnings. I also changed the std::default_deleter on unique_ptr out so it didn't repeat the T name twice and trigger that stupid __LINE___ var exceeds maximum length warning VC++ spits out.
 
hehe
 
(Because unique_ptr is std::unique_ptr<T, std::default_delete<T>>, and if T == std::tuple<seventy_eight_type_names_here>, that will easily overflow VC++'s internal string buffers)
So I changed it to std::unique_ptr<std::tuple<my_long_list>, basic_delete>, which templates the operator()( T* ptr ) call rather than the class itself.
So no more __LINE__ var complaints.
Somebody already suggested to him to break up the class so he wasn't registering so many members. But, he wasn't having any of that.
I'm at the end of my rope, though. I gave him an Undocumented And Untested fix that will break the moment he registers a single member variable on the class.
But in the land of encapsulation and OOP maybe he'll never do that. :v
 
inb4 ThePhD meets the real world again
 
@ThePhD Do you mean one class with ~80 member functions, or something like 10 classes with 7-8 apiece? If it's one class with ~80 member functions, I'd question whether that should be called "advanced". At least to me, "ridiculous" sounds a lot more accurate.
 
nwp
5:33 PM
@ThePhD You should work at microsoft, "nobody puts more than 10 types into a tuple" was probably what they where thinking
 
Hi.
 
@JerryCoffin 1 class, ~80 member functions + ~80 string names for those member functions.
 
@ThePhD In that case, long compile times are his own fault. He should be happy that it works at all.
 
inb4 std::string
 
Geez, somebody clearly doesn't read a lot of articles about programming technique.
 
5:35 PM
@milleniumbug I thankfully forward everything through, so it's just const char*.
 
> 2. Name all the member functions of std::basic_string.
It's, ahem, a fairly long list. Counting constructors, there are no fewer than 103 member functions. Really. If that's not monolithic, it's hard to imagine what would be.
 
Albeit, if someone creates a temporary const char x[] and then passes it in, that'll behave inappropriately.
 
@ThePhD I think the best compromise is to check how many members are being declared, then spit out a compiler warning: "Warning: You're an idiot declaring a god class. Be prepared for long compiles."
 
ok, std::string confirmed
 
@JerryCoffin I ran into a similar problem with one of the FFT algorithms. I had an object that basically "described" the FFT (what size, the tuning parameters, the twiddle factor table). Then I had bunch of "steps" of the algorithm implemented as member functions. The problem is that the number of "steps" grew to something ridiculous before I decided that this isn't going to work anymore.
 
5:36 PM
@milleniumbug Even more thanks to std::string_view.
 
@milleniumbug My point exactly! :-)
 
I have tests for up to like, 26 parameters. Never expected someone to hit 80.
 
Haha, yeah. Somebody's bound to abuse what you give them. I've seen people use a motorized drill instead of a saw and the result was not pretty
 
@ThePhD Please, your main target audience is game developers.
 
@Morwenn Game developers are smaaaauuugh who am I kidding no they're not. q_q
 
nwp
5:44 PM
hmm, I have 2 strings and need to check if one is the prefix of the other. I'm considering using string1 == string_view(string2.data, string1.size) for that. The problem is that string2 might be smaller than string1, however, since string1 contains no '\0'-character and therefore the comparison exits before it hits illegal characters it would not be UB.
would that make me a terrible person/developer?
 
String comparisons use the size, not the null terminator, to stop the comparison.
If string1 is another string_view or a std::string, it's fine.
If it's a const char* or a const char[N] hahahaha can't wait for that bug to blow up in your face.
 
@MarfGamer Just realized that is all Microsoft libraries.
 
@nwp std::search(string1.begin(), string1.end(), string2.begin(), string2.end()) == string1.begin()
 
@nwp yes
 
5:48 PM
(compares beyond the start of the string1, but that doesn't matter if you're prototyping)
 
nwp
@milleniumbug that looks functionally equivalent to string1.find(string2) == 0 which I didn't like due to doing more work than necessary
 
boost::string_ref has .starts_with
or you can use wiertlo::slice(string1, 0, string2.size()) == string2, where wiertlo::slice is defined here
 
I can't get it to ICE anymore.
Whatever, I've evaded the bug in my real code. Not my problem.
Never thought I'd have a HeisenICE.
 
Have you ever tried the hardware version of MSVC?
 
I wonder when I'll stop finding bugs.
200 stars.
Only 296 less than Selene, now.
I really don't wanna do that one. ~_~
 
6:09 PM
@ThePhD Have you ever considered death to be a solution to that problem? ._.
 
I'm gonna close that one. Lua stores strings in utf8 and doing conversions at the boundaries is probably a dumb idea.
 
@ThePhD Not until you quit programming (or at least doing any coding that's at all interesting, anyway).
 
I could have gone to a JavaScript conference tonight, but I decided that I better stay depressed in bed instead.
 
@ThePhD I'd close that as outside the scope.
 
6:34 PM
@Morwenn I have a hard time seeing how bed could be nearly as depressing as JavaScript, but what do I know?
 
@JerryCoffin You tell me: what do you know?
 
@Morwenn According to my wife, virtually nothing.
 
@JerryCoffin that's a good one as well
 
@JerryCoffin Change your table.
 
@Morwenn Hmm....I'm not sure I follow what that's supposed to mean.
 
nwp
6:44 PM
vtable?
 
Virtual table, unfunny puns and stuff :'(
 
Ven
How punny of you
@Morwenn nooo:( <3
Virtual hugs have never solved anything, though they've attempted to
Procès d'indentation.
 
@Ven Neither have static ones.
 
Ven
/cc @LucDanton @KretabChabawenizc
@Morwenn never tried that :-)
 
7:00 PM
When -O2 generates 115 lines of assembly but -O3 generates 354.
 
Ven
And -Ofun only generates despair.
 
The Symantec worm is so bad that even disclosing it responsibly triggers its execution lol https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2016/06/how-to-compromise-enterprise-endpoint.html https://t.co/0EjXDtt4bw
5
@Morwenn Smaller does not necessarily mean faster.
 
@wilx Yeah, there are less labels in the -O3 assembly and it looks like it aggressively inlined/unrolled things.
Meanwhile GCC does not generate equivalent code for a < b and b > a. C'mon .___.
 
@wilx oh my god
 
@JerryCoffin Dammit :P
 
nwp
7:17 PM
@Morwenn is it overloaded?
 
@nwp Not even, it simply compares built-in integers.
 
@Morwenn of course, they're not the same operation
 
nwp
is the difference at least like a less vs a greater instruction that have the same speed or is the generated code significantly different?
 
@набиячлэвэлиь I said « equivalent », not « the same » :p
 
even if, the optimiser mightn't've been able to prove that the same optimisations apply safely and speedily
 
7:19 PM
There are dozens of additional mov and push operations generated when using a < b.
 
nwp
@набиячлэвэлиь for a and b being int?
 
Apparently Clang doesn't care and generates equivalent assembly for both.
 
@nwp yes
C++ is hard to prove
 
nwp
ok how can a < b be different from b > a for ints a and b?
 
user1804599
7:55 PM
@nwp it can't
 
user1804599
same thing
 
8:06 PM
@StackedCrooked Hey, if I have to put up with creaky joints, sore back, etc., at least I should get some sort of benefit from being old... :-)
 
The weather is so shitty outside that I even closed the curtain.
 
@Morwenn Shitty weather outside makes me enjoy being inside.
 
@Greg I'm always inside, so I prefere sunny weather.
 
@Morwenn Sunny weather brings immense heat
 
@Morwenn If your always inside wouldn't you rather feel your lucky to be inside, rather than wishing you could be outside?
 
8:17 PM
I feel more at ease when there is sun and my window is fully open.
I never wish I could be outside. If I want to go outside, I do.
 
@Morwenn i actually prefer nice rainy weather when im inside with my window up and a nice crisp breeze
err window open*
 
yes
stormy weather is p nice too when inside
 
@Greg Too much wind here for the window to be fully open when it rains.
I like to stand at the open door when there is a stormy windless rain though.
 
@Morwenn nonsense, just pretend you are in a pirate ship and the waves are crashing around you
 
@Greg Now that would really be shitty.
 
8:21 PM
@Morwenn Are you telling me you dont want to be a pirate? :(
 
I see exactly no reason ever to want to be become a pirate.
 
wow this channel sucks now
 
@Morwenn Yet you downloaded all those torrentz.
 
@Morwenn Booty, also eyepatches
 
@набиячлэвэлиь Not necessarily. Winters in South Dakota it was often "clear as a bell, and cold as hell."
 
8:22 PM
@JerryCoffin Well yes, excluding winter time
 
i remember when this place used to be fun
 
I remember when you weren't such a bitch
oh wait...
 
@TURNUPTHEMUSICLET'SDANCE It's never been fun. We're always serious, and prohibit anything even vaguely similar to fun.
 
@JerryCoffin well, the staff does
 
@TURNUPTHEMUSICLET'SDANCE Fortunately, most staff infections are curable.
 
8:25 PM
@JerryCoffin xcept the ones in the Staff Transmitted Diseases category
 
@Greg Not even.
@Borgleader Meh.
 
hey staff ban me
 
guys may I ask something??
 
please
 
8:29 PM
don't even try
nope
ask in another channel
 
I'm begging you
 
sorry
i don't make the rules
 
I'll give you my sister..
 
@Hey-men-whatsup What sort of something?
 
@Hey-men-whatsup If only there was a website for asking programming related questions
 
8:30 PM
@Hey-men-whatsup how old
 
what does "'We're in the stickiest situation since Sticky the Stick Insect got stuck on a sticky bun." means in plain english??
 
it means that we're in the stickiest situation since Sticky the Stick Insect got stuck on a sticky bun.
 
that's the plainest English
 
@Hey-men-whatsup "We're an an extremely difficult situation."
 
8:31 PM
someone text me but I don't know how to reply
since I don't what that supposed to mean
 
I told you not to ask...now you'll have to be banned, sorry
 
@TURNUPTHEMUSICLET'SDANCE It was a fairly innocent question. Not nearly a bad enough sin to merit being subjected to a punishment like the ban of matrimony.
 
ban of matrimony?? now that would be doing the man a favor!
 
0
Q: what does "'We're in the stickiest situation since Sticky the Stick Insect got stuck on a sticky bun."

Hey-men-whatsupWhat does We're in the stickiest situation since Sticky the Stick Insect got stuck on a sticky bun. mean in plain english?

 
which is better for reference, cplusplus.com or cppreference.com?
or neither? where do i go for reference?
 
8:43 PM
cppreference
 
general consensus in this room is that cppreference is better
 
thanks
 
8:56 PM
Alright.
This person wants me to review this github repo.
Guess it's time for that hot, kinky repo dive.
 
well cplusplus.com doesn’t even contain the word 'reference' so easy choice to make really
2
 
hehe
 

« first day (2083 days earlier)      last day (2866 days later) »