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00:00 - 16:0016:00 - 00:00

12:00 AM
@Mysticial Hmm I see. So there are no like... memory wait counters you can check?
 
Fixed the no crashing bug
 
@Borgleader I didn't have the tools that I have now.
 
And now it randomly changes bits
:D
 
All of it was just micro-benchmarking and task manager.
 
I should write a library dll thingamadoodle to make a Undefined() function that does some checking to find what will screw you over the most
 
12:02 AM
@Mysticial Ok, so theres a better way, but one can do the above method. Aight.
 
Starting on Undefined.dll now I guess
 
oh, I’ve always thought that treating member access as an entity was a weird decltype quirk, but on second thought it’s treating the subobject (or referend) itself as an entity
I realised that from considering decltype( as_const(some_pair).first )
iow treating the member/subobject as if it were a variable/object
 
I want proper lenses in C++
 
@sehe set a larger font
 
@sehe Get new contacts
 
12:17 AM
Dysfunctional programmer jokes
 
What else would we do :)
 
Fair point. I'd go to bed :) Night all
 
'night
 
Night
 
12:32 AM
@Borgleader Yes, there were/are. Most tools to access that data, however, are somewhat expensive (and writing your own is non-trivial).
In theory, accessing the counters isn't all that tough, but you pretty much have to do it from a kernel mode driver, which immediately renders the exercise at least somewhat non-trivial, at least on Windows.
 
@JerryCoffin Right because you need to get it WHQL certified? either that or i think theres like a dev version of windows or something
 
@Borgleader It's not too hard to get around that (in fact, I've rarely even noticed--when you're developing a driver, you usually have the kernel debugger attached, and the kernel doesn't even try to enforce driver signing when the kernel debugger is running. Mostly just the fact that these don't really fit the normal device driver model very well, and DDK docs are fairly poor (at least for doing unusual stuff).
In fairness to MS, I should probably add that I haven't done this in years; the docs may have gotten better in the meantime.
 
:D
I fixed the Undefined.Undefined.run() method I was working on :D
It now correctly does undefined behavior
 
12:52 AM
@Borgleader Actually, it looks like Intel makes it pretty easy nowadays: software.intel.com/en-us/articles/…
 
@JerryCoffin So until there are better memory profilers, the solution is to write better code by studying memory management?
 
1 message moved to bin
1 message moved to bin
 
can you move moved to bin messages to the bin?
 
1:08 AM
Should test that :D
 
I'll try.
Nope. No workee.
 
1:22 AM
@JerryCoffin Oh wow thats pretty cool. Thanks :)
 
interesting, I have GCC complaining about an ambiguity between an overload constrained with requires true and an unconstrained overload
the ambiguity disappears if I use requires dependent_true<Arg> as the constraint
sadly I can’t manage to repro
 
1:37 AM
@Borgleader Surely.
 
1:57 AM
@JerryCoffin aw. Thanks though.
 
rip
 
2:28 AM
gg
 
Is there anything else that can happen it Britain that would cause it not to leave?
 
2:54 AM
For example, their politicians might hesitate to actually invoke the leave clause?
 
Well, it was a referendum, so they still might choose to remain if they decide the margin wasn't large enough
 
yesterday, by sehe
http://imgur.com/gallery/HCjeL @Puppy what about this extremish hypothesis?
maybe?
 
Interesting. I still have to understand why Cameron changed his position.
 
3:16 AM
I'm back, this time it's just a design question. In my API I allow the coder to set the MTU for their server and for client. The server's MTU never changes, however the client's can decrease when trying to connect to the server. However there is a slight problem, when the MTU is specified it is hard to make sure that the MTU will go to the minimum (530) before disconnecting
Because if a user does 710, when it subtracts 100 we now have 610, but then 510 after that. So we never got to check the minimum
I was thinking instead of subtracting 100, having an array of possible MTU's usable by the client and just go from there. So we could have 1492, 1152, and then 530. So if the client never gets to check it's minimum, it's the developers fault
 
My gut reaction is to use some networking code that somebody else wrote :-/ (sorry I don't do much network stuff)
 
3:29 AM
@Mysticial lol you don't wanna work for cisco
granted, most of my experience there was with execs but I was left with the impression of an overly corporate culture
have to dress formal every day, lots of talking behind coworkers backs, teams seem to have little direction other than what their manager gave them, etc
tbh I don't think apple would be vastly different though
 
My close friends & parents complained about how I don't dress up for them
 
@nick The folks I know at Apple have a good work life balance.
 
good to hear
 
@Mikhail compare to you I assume :p
 
hows their experience at work?
 
3:37 AM
They don't talk about it, but their work seems to me to be a very small gear in a very large machine
 
Jun 5 at 0:00, by Mikhail
Most of my weekends are spent doing research work...
May 11 at 6:16, by Mikhail
Its fucking 1:16AM and I'm still at work, not worth it (most of the time)
 
I think most big tech corporations will provide you with a fair to excellent work-life balance (exception: amazon) so i guess my concern is how satisfied they are with their work and colleagues
 
I guess you would find most people have a better work life balance than you :p
 
@Telkitty In fact I woke up today at 9:00am, took an hour break for lunch and dinner and am still working.
FUCK
One more hour and I can sleep
 
But you are young, young people should be overworked (according to an old cranky ex-colleague)
 
3:40 AM
The work is making me old
 
Fuck those people, they didn't have a computer screen following them everywhere
 
lol
Finished my c# library thing
 
What did you learn?
 
I made a thing that intentionally messes up random bits
yey pointers
Caused a fatal error in the runtime once
 
3:46 AM
Doesn't sound like C#, if you want to talk about lower level stuff like pointers or UB, I would encourage you leave this room and go a more suitable place like the Lounge<C++> room
 
But this is the Lounge<C++> room
It is c# though
 
@Darkrifts You'll learn about sarcasm and puns if you visit the Lounge<C++> room
 
Meh
2muchwork4me
 
4:19 AM
I love how some people never leave the channel :P
 
Like IRC, we log on all day while we're working, studying, etc and chat every once in a while to consult or interact. Same as how some people leave music playing while they do other things
 
neat
 
C++ is a concise, simple, and elegant programming language. pbs.twimg.com/media/CmAKFOfWYAQrNmE.jpg
12
 
Mhmm
 
4:28 AM
90% of code beauty is the result of a programmer's skill
Except for PHP :p
 
^ PREACH
I know, it was a joke. The coders though are Mojang and Microsoft
You see Mojang thought it would be better to use XBOX Live rather than use this thing called Mojang accounts which were made with the specific purpouse of linking all their games into one
I'm not kidding the game used to have support for it, and I bet you the code for it is still there but just hidden way.
 
neat
 
Microsoft is screwing over Minecraft with this "All platforms are compatible" bullcrap. No one asked for it (At least that I know of) and I have a feeling it will only slow down development. Console versions are handled by a completely different developer (4JStudios) while the mobile version is developed by Mojang.
 
4:42 AM
Probably will slow it down
Since they have to be the same on different platforms
 
Yep
 
You know what, I can't think of a single use of Undefined.Undefined.run()
It's a function that runs (mostly) undefined behavior
It does have a 1/30,000,000 chance of returning a scripted number, but what are the odds of that
I now coin -272457 as the UUr number
 
5:07 AM
@Darkrifts knowledge. A lot of mastery is taking a chance, seeing how it plays out, then remembering it next time.
 
It literally does nothing good though :P
The only thing that could be considered good is the fact it returns a random long number if it doesn't crash it :P
A try block can't stop it from crashing even, because I've tried
 
I'm listening to a Japanese station and I recognize the artist that just started playing
I haven't heard this song before, but it's DIR EN GREY and I enjoy them a lot
 
I have no idea who they are :P
Or anything Japanese really
 
Well, just defined a UUr_Num readonly field in my UB class
And republished it with the update
 
5:37 AM
0
Q: How can i access a virtual method of a class with her adress/without using the name of the method

Brankoclass Base{ public: virtual int first()=0; virtual int second()=0; }; class Derived: public Base{ public: virtual int first(){return 5;} virtual int second(){return 15;} }; This is my code, and i'm trying for practice to access it using only pointers and addresses but i can't wrap my h...

I don't quite get why someone would want to access a function this way
 
@Darkrifts Why would you want to implement undefined behaviour? Because it's an interesting challenge
 
Because I wanted something that causes chaos that I didn't have to bother implementing :P
2lazy2make
That, and I wanted to try and corrupt the runtime (of which I succeeded)
Also, it's only mostly undefined
 
6:09 AM
Nobody saw heinous UI design coming
 
lol
 
@Darkrifts What did you use? unsafe pointers, interop (P/Invoke), alignment attributes (FieldOffsetAttribute,...?)
 
Unsafe pointers and random numbers with some incrementation
Mostly just instantly crashes said app
Had one case where there was a fatal error, not with the app implemented it in, but the runtime itself :D
 
40
Q: What are the new features in C++17?

YakkC++17 is now feature complete, so unlikely to experience large changes. Hundreds of proposals were put forward for C++17. Which of those features were added to C++ in C++17?

 
"c++1z"
 
6:35 AM
Cxx
C--
 
6:46 AM
@Darkrifts cough
 
wut?
 
@Darkrifts Cheetah
 
y u cheeta
 
@Darkrifts c++zzzzzzzzz
 
 
1 hour later…
8:07 AM
Can std::invoke's functionality be replaced by virtual/interfaces?
 
@Mikhail ...whatever for?
invoke is an almost-perfect-forwarding wrapper over different syntaxes to call stuff. Why would you add the overhead of virtual calls to something that is trivially resolved statically?
 
Because objects can invoke their own functions, through the standard function calling mechanism? The switch like behavior achieved with std::invoke appears to be already present in virtual functions?
 
...what
The "switch" mechanism of std::invoke is templates and overload resolution.
It's all compile-time.
 
Ven
Hi
 
Virtual calls are by definition not compile-time.
 
8:12 AM
I suspect that for trivial use cases they can be de-virtualized?
 
But... why for? o.O
 
It was one hell of a collision on Monday when the hugely successful American anti-abortion lobby ran into a brick wall
I like the wording of some journalists
 
Why are you so bent on using a runtime mechanism for compile time dispatch? It makes no sense whatsoever.
 
I want to use polymorphism, and in C++ its implemented sometimes at runtime...
 
what
static polymorphism, motherfucker
do you speak it
 
Ven
8:16 AM
does he.
 
not really ...
Okay, so do I understand this correctly? The primary use case of std::invoke is to make templated functions that accept arbitrary "invokables" as arguments? For example, a function used to populate a data structure might accept a lambda?
 
...lambdas are not the issue
Member function pointers (and invoking them on pointers and whatnot) are.
 
Yeah, I think I understand it. Regrettably, I don't have any use for these shiny new things in my code.
 
> member function pointers
> shiny new things
kek
 
I typically don't have any objects that are filled with other functions. My objects tend to populate themselves...
 
8:45 AM
Also: https://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/news/releasenotes/vs2015-update3-vs#visualcpp

"We now check the access of a deleted trivial copy/move ctor. Without the check, we may incorrectly call the defaulted copy ctor (in which the implementation can be ill-formed) and cause potential runtime bad code generation."
wtf were they doing before?
 
Ven
Hey guys, does anyone know what happened to stroustrup.com/multimethods.pdf? Is it dead?
 
@Ven Works from here.
 
Ven
@Griwes sorry¿
Was it proposed for C++17? I don't think so, right?
 
Ah, you mean language-wise. I've parsed it as "link doesn't work for me". :P
 
Ven
Yeah, the paper
 
8:53 AM
I don't recall ever seeing an actual proposal for that.
 
Ven
oh :(
@Morwenn might know?
 
Ven
9:07 AM
quoting standard legalese before students by heart just to show them how miserable my life is: priceless.
 
was it the limerick
please tell me it was the limerick
 
@Mikhail The problem: function pointers and function objects can be called with f(x). member function pointers can be called with x->*f(). The solution: introduce std::invoke so both can be called with std::invoke(f, x)
 
Ven
 
@Ven When writing a specialization, be careful of its location.
Or to make it compile, will be such a trial, as to kindle its self-immolation.
 
Ven
9:25 AM
Beautiful.
 
9:41 AM
The most beautiful thing is how absurdly boring the entire paragraph, short of that last sentence, is.
 
function templates, class templates, variable templates, member functions of class templates, static
data members of class templates, member classes of class templates, member enumerations of class
templates, member class templates of class templates, member function templates of class templates,
static data member templates of class templates, member functions of member templates of class
templates, member functions of member templates of non-template classes, static data member
templates of non-template classes, member function templates of member classes of class
really?
 
Yes. :D
Welcome to the insanities of standardese.
 
Ven
I'm at 5.1 in my readings
 
10:11 AM
@Ven I don't know whether it has actually been proposed someday.
On the other, if I'm not mistaken, SG14 and a few other people mentioned it during the last months.
 
10:26 AM
hey man I linked that on discord 4ever ago
taking muh stars
 
@Rapptz linked what, the limerick?
 
ye
not really a limerick though
 
@orlp That sentence is hard to read on purpose.
 
yeah
 
when Koenig wrote the limerick, Bjarne decided to make the sentence leading to it so hard to read that nobody would reach it.
 
10:33 AM
I don't see how this is a limerick
there are 4 uses of a period
2 of which are after etc.
so there are 3 sentences in here
a limerick has 5 lines
not to mention the rhyme scheme lol
 
compile and trial rhyme in my book.
 
> When writing a specialization
> be careful about its location
> or to make it compile
> will be such a trial
> as to kindle its self-immolation.
 
oh the last sentence
that's AABBA alright
 
it's more like
AAB(B')A
 
it is pushing it a little
 
10:38 AM
compile and trial do rhyme though
 
Hm. Yeah actually.
the syllable count is different though
 
is it
 
Sounds like a CWG defect report
 
:D
 
it's 6 syllables vs 5 if I count correctly
doesn't feel well to say
 
Ven
mh
 
@Griwes not in a standard accent.
"trial" has an extra schwa
/-aɪl/ vs /-aɪəl/
 
it's good enough
 
Ven
Eurgh. "By the time we leave the EU, the majority of the UK will want to Remain even if nobody changes their mind" https://t.co/sKrvwqi3pa
5
 
Ven
11:37 AM
WTB: Template type interpolation in static_assert messages.
Seriously. That'd make it 10x as readable
 
nwp
@Ven that doesn't take into account that people age and become stupid
 
Ven
@nwp you're right: it very explicitly, purposely doesn't
 
@Ven What's that?
 
nwp
@Ven I don't like you anymore, you don't let me feel clever
 
Ven
@milleniumbug template<typename T> void f() { static_assert(..., template_to_string(T) + " can't work with your type"); or something
@nwp sorry, I'm all very boring
inb4 #define typeof(T) ###T :P
 
11:42 AM
hehe
 
11:53 AM
@Bassie hedde deze al gezien howfuckedismydistro.com/gentoo
 
This just in: UK decided that you read The Rules™ in historical referendum.
17
 
Ven
that's a bold strategy cotton
Let's see if it pays off in stars
 
@Shoe did they regret it immediately afterwards?
 
@Mgetz Yes. They are now googling what it means exactly to read the rules
 
@Shoe Which means they apply to practically no one now. gj.
 
user1804599
12:19 PM
@sehe Install Gentoo
 
@sehe I don't get it. (Again.)
 
12:33 PM
23 hours ago, by Jossie Calderon
I want to implement a linked list using a hash table in C++. That way it has O(1) access to an element and it's able to swap and sort efficiently.
Gee, I almost had a heart attack!
 
ikr
 
Ven
anyway used Linq.TS?
 
> Unbelievable Breaking News: IoT kettles are insecure
> Unbelievable Breaking News: IoT kettles are insecure (www.securitynewspaper.com/2015/10/20/insecure-internet-connected-kettles-help-r‌​esearchers-crack-wifi-networks-across-london)
 
domotics of the future: set fire to your kitchen from wherever you are
 
12:49 PM
...
Why would you have an internet-connected kettle....?
 
to send you a Twitter message that the water is boiling, duh
 
Ven
auto-instagram posting
 
The most baffling thing is using Telnet as the control protocol instead of HTCPCP
 
... What is this, 1970?
 
they made variant visitation variadic, but it doesn’t use a common type oo misread, it’s trickier than that
 
1:03 PM
@Shoe Maybe someday Jossie will find a great unified theory of computer science, and as a result the STL will shrink to exactly 1 data structure and 1 algorithm.
 
> The return type is the common_type common type of all possible INVOKE expressions of the Effects element.
they had to strike that since std::common_type does not just compute the common type
 
heheheh
 
> [INVOKE(forward<Visitor>(vis), get<is>(forward<Variants>(vars))...)] must be a valid expression of the same type and value category, for all combinations of alternative types of all variants.
 
@fredoverflow Jossie?
 
@Shoe The guy I quoted? Or was your "ikr" not directed at me?
 
1:06 PM
that’s the weird part, IIUC a visitor that overloads int(int) and float(float) can’t visit variant<int, float>
 
@fredoverflow Oh, I didn't even read his name
 
with respect to what will the result type be a common type, is what I wonder
 
would prefer "Principles for writing pretty code"
 
I think I’ll end up using std::variant but I’ll likely favour my product_with to std::visit unless I misinterpreted that spec. also I have unchecked_zip_with which has no standard equivalent.
I’ll be curious to time the impact on compile times from a literal type variant compared to a non-literal version though
> All types in Types... [may be] references. [Note: Implementations could decide to store references in a wrapper. — end note]
assignment semantics though :|
another bizarre thing is that the copy constructor had a noexcept spec but they dropped it
 
@jaggedSpire Principles for writing Jon
 
lol
Hi Ven
 
2:08 PM
My favorite #CppCon reviewer feedback: This talk sounds okay, but I'd much rather the speakers talk about [something completely different].
lol
 
Lmao
 
Ven
2016, and github still doesn't do notifications for gist comments -_-
 
@wilx how so, again?
 
does that make you gist off
 
I never posted that site before
 
2:18 PM
Architecting a chat system is fun.
 
2:34 PM
@Ven Like, seriously?
 
> Once you start making slippery slope arguments, who knows where you'll end up?
 
Lower.
 
2:54 PM
@fredoverflow I don't think I agree, but I see his point
 
So I started new Factorio playthrough, and it took me literally 2 minutes to get to a moment where I don't need to do any manual resource digging anymore (i.e. built an axe, gathered some wood, built 2 drills and some chests)
 
We knew that already
 
Yeah, but Puppy doesn't :P
(why 2 minutes? Because autosave triggers every 2 minutes)
 
@milleniumbug You can change that I believe
When we played together we set it to 15 IIRC
2 minutes autosave is just annoying :/
 
yes I remember
 
Xeo
3:52 PM
@milleniumbug 2 drills only allows full coal automation tho
 
Ven
> Alternative view: if you must use C++, stick to nothing later than C++2003.
why wouldn't you just use C then
> Anyway, declaring a constructor " = delete" isn't the same thing as making it private. If it's private, the code in your class scope can still use it. If you can't trust your class private code to do things correctly, then you're screwed; go join IT and write backup shell scripts. So basically this "= delete" is just another ear growing out of the elbow of C++.
 
@Ven kek
 
Ven
well, I'd go for botany. But that's not "the same thing", I'm afraid.
 
Though please don't link to the source of that.
I don't want my beautiful day be destroyed by someone really bad at programming.
 
@Xeo You get one furnace and one drill at start. Two drills more, and you get enough miners to mine coal, and stone+iron, which are necessary to get more drills
 
3:59 PM
It's in replies to this, should anyone be interested
 
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