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4:00 PM
Are you talking about my eyebrow(s)?
2
 
@EtiennedeMartel if it didn't work, they wouldn't keep doing it
 
It's probably not the best programmers who answer though
 
@Mr.kbok So they really follow spam tactics.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes :P
 
4:00 PM
@EtiennedeMartel <claps hands>
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes They're gorgeous.
 
I have a sesquibrow.
 
define: sesquibrow
shame :(
 
== English == === Etymology === From Latin sēsqui === Prefix === sesqui- One and a half In a ratio of 3 to 2 ==== Derived terms ==== Category:English words prefixed with sesqui- sesquicentenary sesquicentennial sesquilinear sesquioxide sesquipedal, sesquipedalian, sesquipedalianism sesquiplane sesquiplicate sesquisyllabic sesquiterpene...
It's between a monobrow and two eyebrows.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Absolutely. I'd even say that the shitty mailing is actually attracting crappy programmers, who are more likely to accept working in those shitty conditions
 
4:02 PM
@thecoshman It's a technical term I just made up.
 
Sex quid bro.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes vOv it's not made up until it has a Wiktionary page
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Is it because you cut half of your brow off with something
 
The brow bridge is underdeveloped.
Brow bridge is another technical term I made up.
@thecoshman Nah, urban dictionary.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ridge, not bridge
ah...
well I know a defence strategy I sure as hell wouldn't get away with ¬_¬
 
4:06 PM
Is it true that text can always be considered SFW?
 
If it's not readable from afar, I'd say so.
A big fat "HOW TO SUCK COCK" on the screen is probably best considered NSFW.
 
nag is a funny name for a library
 
inb4 an actual link containing what I described.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Where is the tip?
Where can I see the tip?
The tip is actually weird. Looks like a snake head.
See you later guys
 
4:12 PM
nn
 
What happened?
 
Guess why the original was posted not as a onebox
 
Poor Jefffrey.
<3
 
rip
 
Hi Scott.
 
4:14 PM
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ Ah, that was taken in winter I guess.
 
Why bother?
 
user1804599
@R.MartinhoFernandes omg where
 
user1804599
 
wow cmake managed to generate a solution where every single project is broken. good job cmake
 
4:18 PM
Step 1: GRAB COCK
 
user1804599
thank you barraco barner
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ not really
 
@unordered_meow That's an ad hominem attack. Very professional.
 
Nooblet until proven otherwise.
 
@hello It would double the size of the search because the node has to check whether the middle or right sub-tree has the desired child. So it would be less efficient than a 2-3/2-3-4.
@hello Data structures make storage and retrieval efficient. It also organizes the code in such a way that it makes the programmer/team satisfied with code readability.
 
4:50 PM
@Nooble nooble_t
 
@Jeremy :P
 
@DonLarynx I understand that, but is there instances where you'll prefer DS ahead of STL apart from game programming @TheForestAndTheTrees)
 
@hello STL implements DS's (some examples are std::unordered_map, std::vector, and std::queue). Boost also models some of their structures from the STL, such as Boost::Multiindex (see here: boost.org/doc/libs/1_57_0/libs/multi_index/doc/index.html)
 
@ʞɔᴉN I'm going to write "The Law of the Mumble".
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, sorry about that. I was about to remove the onebox when I was suspended.
 
5:01 PM
What rhymes with "duck"?
 
Good, I am gonna write an easy to use indoor navigation android app
you guys are talking to a future millionaire
 
@thecoshman How so?
 
@Nooble is that a fanfic?
 
@ʞɔᴉN No, a poem.
 
@Nooble Lil Wayne's song "Knuck if you Buck"
 
5:05 PM
Thankfully no onebox
 
I was just reading bitsquid.blogspot.de/2015/08/… and realized that we will never have good memory allocation, ever
in any programming language because of backwards compatibility with C
we live in an imperfect world
 
what about javascript
 
> There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses.
 
Wall of text crits you for 9001 damage.Borgleader 8 secs ago
 
5:10 PM
Good evening
 
Hello
@Nooble still waiting :)
 
Xeo
@MaiLongdong O..kay?
 
@DonLarynx thanks.
 
@Xeo He's right
 
@ʞɔᴉN Almost done...
@ʞɔᴉN Here.
 
5:16 PM
@TheForestAndTheTrees I'm not sure how that would work.
 
> The spire, the duck, and the hound
I guess I'm the duck :/
 
So by design the allocator knows if it owns a given pointer, and it also knows the memory that was allocated for that pointer. It also needs to query this information as fast as possible, but there is no way to ask it for the information
 
@ʞɔᴉN Yes.
@gnzlbg You need a UniquePtrToPtrPtr.
 
C has just doomed allocators forever
 
user1804599
Ruby is great.
 
What to eat?
 
Xeo
@DonLarynx Guess I'll go Thursday. Tomorrow's gamescom
 
@gnzlbg Windows has misused allocators forever
 
jemalloc has an experimental API that is a bit better
but it is still far from optimal
there is no way to do the book-keeping yourself
 
@gnzlbg Normally allocators don't know if they own it- they just assume they do when you come to free it.
 
5:27 PM
like suppose i'm implementing std::vector and the user tells me to allocate a vector of a given size, i call the allocator, and it allocates a block of memory of a larger size (because it cannot get one of the specified size for whatever reason), jemalloc gives you for a specified size the real size allocated, so you can actually use the real size
 
Whoever flagged "cock", get a life.
 
however to free a block of memory, there is no way to pass the size,
and there is still no way to ask an allocator if it owns a given pointer
 
@Xeo Camper :p
 
Xeo
eh
 
@Puppy of course it does free(void*) deallocates a block of memory, the allocator has to store the size of the block internally somewhere
and associate it with the pointer to be able to find it
 
5:29 PM
@gnzlbg Normally, you just put it in the block. Then you don't do any bookkeeping about how to find the size.
 
> This user has been automatically suspended for posting inappropriate content and cannot chat for 29 minutes
oh my
 
Xeo
sigh
 
@Puppy but you want to mark the block as free, or merge it with neighboring blocks
 
Looks like 6+ people need a life.
 
@ScottW rightfold
see my message earlier
 
5:31 PM
@gnzlbg Sure, but you're not needing to know if you own that block- you just assume you do.
 
@Puppy That's the preamble
 
@Puppy well you have metadata for that block, like "is it free", and you need to find it for a given void*
 
@ScottW lol
 
@gnzlbg You know it's not free because you're being asked to free it.
 
5:32 PM
@ScottW Last time I said that for a laugh, I got banned
 
@Puppy yes, but how big is it?
 
@gnzlbg 10 inches
 
@gnzlbg The size is in the block.
 
@Puppy and how do you find the block?
 
@gnzlbg It's just been passed to you in free().
 
5:34 PM
@Puppy so e.g. at some negative offset of the pointer passed to free there is the information about the size?
 
yep
that's what you assume, and if the user got it wrong, the consequences are their problem
 
that's certainly one way to do it
thanks
but still that sucks
Rust (and maybe sometimes C++) knows a lot of the time the size of the objects statically (and otherwise dynamically), and can pair a new with a delete, so if the book-keeping would be allowed to be done externally, most of the time no book-keeping would be required at all
 
yep.
C++ introduced sized deallocators in C++14 iirc.
in Wide I have no intention of offering an unsized deallocator.
 
but at the end of the day they have to interface with the C allocator
if you link to any C library at all, it is better to have one allocator than two, and that means you need to use a C allocator, which means no sized deallocation
either that or you provide an allocator with an interface that can do both and use the sized version for your language and the unsized version for C but it is always the same allocator
 
I have no especial need to have only one allocator.
as far as I'm concerned, the need for use-specific allocation strategies directly tells you that you will need more than one allocator.
so I have absolutely no care about providing unsized deallocation to support a malloc/free interface.
 
5:41 PM
so you will offer no FFI with C?
 
for my allocator? no, why would I?
 
like being able to allocate memory and pass it to C code that deallocates it
 
That never works well
 
or the other way around, getting memory from C code and deallocating it yourself
 
if you need that, call malloc.
 
5:42 PM
huh, new YT player
 
everybody realized that assuming same allocator everywhere is terrible a long time ago.
 
... or am I only just finally actually getting the HTML5 player...
 
why does rust enforce a single allocator then?
 
I dunno
 
Either have explicit callbacks for deallocation or just Don't Do This(tm)
 
5:43 PM
there was a long discussion about it
maybe i can find it
 
that's their problem
 
thats the rationale of niko matsakis (rust lead dev)
gonna read it
 
They don't assume a single allocator so much as don't care and just generate direct calls to jemalloc
 
dude wtf
why did I get banned for "COCK"
 
But it's such a great piece of insanity
 
5:51 PM
@gnzlbg He's a moron.
 
@Puppy he mentions that they can pass the size to jemalloc's free but I do not find that information in jemallocs API
 
jebmalloc
 
> This has a measureable effect in micro-benchmarks. I am not aware of any measurements on larger scale Rust application
so basically, "We're going to wank on about some performance improvement that's actually completely hypothetical".
 
je suis malloc
 
nice work
@unordered_meow MechJebMalloc
 
5:54 PM
@Puppy the problem is, all rust programs are linked to some C library
 
the whole article is basically "I want performance but I don't know what to do because I didn't fucking measure the different choices".
 
the moment you have to interface with the OS in Mac/Linux/BSD you need to use a C interface
 
that does not require that the Rust allocator has anything to do with the C allocator.
 
no, im just saying, that from what he wrote if that C library uses shitty malloc all Rust programs end up with shitty malloc
 
5:56 PM
only if he doesn't just use jemalloc all the time
 
@Puppy well using sized allocation and deallocation is the obvious choice for rust, rust always knows the sizes of everything either at compile-time or at run-time
 
@gnzlbg Yeah, but the only reason he doesn't just use them is because he's whining about some hypothetical performance hit that may or may not actually exist in reality.
 
@Puppy I thought that the argument about the performance hit was that you lose performance if you don't use them
 
no, he was whining that having two allocators loses performance
but he doesn't know how much
and he wants to use sized deallocation which wins performance but again, he doesn't know how much.
 
yes, but he also says that an argument against using the standard malloc interface is that you then cannot use the advanced jemalloc features
 
5:59 PM
so he's looking at these tradeoffs with absolutely zero relevant data and then whining that he doesn't know what to do.
 
however, i still cannot find sized deallocation in jemallocs API
@Puppy yes, he never proves that point, it is just a claim
 
and when he's crying about the performance loss of XYZ solution, he doesn't even know how much it is
so he can't make any informed decisions
 
I think the bigger problem about using two allocators is that then you cannot pass memory allocated by one to code using the other
 
user1804599
coooool new Killer Clown prank episode
 
meh
 
6:00 PM
@Puppy yes the performance point is moot
 
that's a non-issue
 
@Puppy it is a non issue if you know which allocator each library you use uses
 
or if you don't just assume that they're the same
 
if they arent you get a pretty loud boom so i guess its fine, but then it complicates the language
 
well, no, it requires that the API writer wasn't a total fucking moron
it doesn't really change the language at all
 
user1804599
6:02 PM
Rust derives from Ruby so no wonder it's shit.
 
i mean in C++ new calls some allocator, in a part of the program it calls one, and in another it calls a different one, you basically need to know, and call the allocator interface directly to deal with it correctly
if you really need two allocators, you need to do this anyways
so... its more complicated, but its your own fault
 
user1804599
I have one allocator and it's called the garbage collector.
 
C interfaces that assume that the caller is using the same allocator as them are broken, and Rust can't change that one way or another
 
user1804599
C interfaces typically provide their own cleanup functions.
 
user1804599
When you expose a C interface, you don't tell the API consumer to call free.
 
6:06 PM
yep
 
user1804599
You tell them to call my_c_api_free.
 
@Puppy yep, i now believe that passing ownership of memory through a binary interface is broken
don't do this, multiple allocators don't result in any problems, everyone can do whatever they want
@elyse yep, that basically solves the issue
 
Also most of the time your deallocation also needs to do something different (destructors), so C libraries provide their own deallocation functions
 
I saw the post that inspired this. I salute you for your humility :) — R Sahu 9 mins ago
Humility Races in Orbit?
 
6:14 PM
lol my function runs 10% slower when compiled with -O3 instead of -O2. Thanks Clang
 
probably LLVM
 
@ScottW lol
 
lol
 
> incredibly secure
I'd say "secure enough".
 
@ScottW Heartbleed made me read the source of this library and I can say that we all are in deep shit and I have no idea how we survived for so long.
2
 
6:16 PM
And we are still surviving somehow.
 
Also these guys had came up with an idea to read uninitialized variables, because "hell, it can't hurt, can it?"
This was the main cause of the "Debian OpenSSL fiasco"
 
@unordered_meow What do you mean?
 
No, the main cause was Debian maintainers not thinking about their changes
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ research.swtch.com/openssl Scroll down to "Cascade of Failures"
 
Damn...C++.
Is it possible, that zeroing a pointer member variable in destructor is optimized away because it is a store to soon to be dead object?
Like in the dtor of unique_ptr<>?
  ~unique_ptr() noexcept
  {
    auto& __ptr = std::get<0>(_M_t);
    if (__ptr != nullptr)
      get_deleter()(__ptr);
    __ptr = pointer();
  }
 
6:25 PM
What makes you say that?
 
@wilx if it is not a vvisible yes
@wilx ` __ptr = pointer();` has probably not visible sideeffects
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ Well, I got a bug report for which I fail to see how the situation can happen.
@gnzlbg Explain visible?
 
ICC is awesome.
 
@wilx if a c++ program cannot observe it
 
Produces code faster than both GCC and Clang. And I mean compilation and runtime.
 
6:27 PM
basically it is the last step in the destructor, afterwards the object is gone, and no valid c++ program can observe the value of __ptr (std::get<0>(_M_t)) afterwards, so it is a no op
 
As one of the comments says, there is sort of bad situation where the unique_ptr<> gets destroyed and later it is attempted to be reset(). I know this is UB for the access of the already destroyed object. But if the dtor sets the pointer to nullptr than it should be fairly safe.
 
@wilx that is undefined behavior
 
@gnzlbg I feared this.
 
> I know this is UB [...] but it should be fairly safe
That's what OpenSSL guys thought
 
@gnzlbg I know I know. But even the UB can do a predictable sensible thing. :)
@unordered_meow Heh. I am not in security business with the library. :)
 
6:29 PM
not really
at O0 it will do one thing, at O1 it will do a different thing, at O3 another thing
and every compiler version of the same compiler might do something different
 
user1804599
Tomorrow's clang will break your code.
 
user1804599
Don't do UB.
 
and past's clang will break your code
 
om nom nom. Just had me some ribs for dinner. Suffice to say, it's handy that I needed a shower anyway :)
 
@Columbo sometimes ICC does magic code analysis and reordering (y) gcc/clang dont do that // the implementors probably dont have the bandwidth to do it either
 
6:31 PM
@elyse UB: Not even once
 
@wilx if you want to save yourself headaches, don't do that, don't relly on it, because even if you work around it now (and there are possible workarounds), the next compiler version might be smarter and able to see through them, and your code will be as broken as it is today
 
I know.
FML.
 
The train conductor has a really nice voice
A welcome change.
 
@Columbo As measured on Intel or AMD processors?
 
@Puppy On my i7.
If your computer uses an AMD processor, you're a poor sod.
 
6:35 PM
probably, but it's not unreasonable to expect optimisers to optimise for them fairly
 
I use an AMD processor
 
@wilx It's totally not safe at all, the code is broken by design and you should fix.
 
@Puppy I am.
 
@unordered_meow :c
@Nooble A what?
 
user image
2
 
6:42 PM
@Columbo So true
 
Hahaha guys there's a guy sitting next to me on the train reading a C++ book. Chapter 3: Objects.
 
It's depressing
 
user1804599
@Columbo Those are some well-drawn lines.
 
switch his book with a ruby one when he goes to the toilet
 
user1804599
Only a fool would go to the toilet leaving his stuff behind in a train.
 
6:50 PM
Is ruby that bad?
 
ruby is the language of the future
did I mention that human intelligence is decreasing over the years? Women tend to prefer morons so they reproduce more than their smarter competition
 
@MarcoA. from __future__ import ruby ?
 
@MarcoA. I havea feeling that was a pun.
 
@MarcoA. That's good
Dumber people are happier
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ Gives hope, right?
 
6:53 PM
That means we'll stop with these dark tones, and start with happier ones again.
Everything has to be dark now. I don't know why.
 
Exactly, why can't people just be happy with JavaScript and PHP.
 
Why do people always complain about stuff?
 
@MarcoA. Also you are implying that intelligence is in the genes or something.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ It clearly is.
 
6:55 PM
I took a picture of his book seceretly mwahaahaha.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ it isn't in how we Italians vote, that's for sure
must be elsewhere
 
user1804599
@khajvah because JavaScript is terrible.
 
@MarcoA. That would be jeans,not genes,
 
@khajvah Are you complaining about complaining m8?
Jul 28 at 9:07, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Irony comment.
 
@khajvah I hate people who complain about people who complain
 
6:59 PM
@khajvah because PHP is terrible.
 
@MarcoA. DAT RECURSION
 

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