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Ell
12:00 PM
@BartekBanachewicz no idea vOv
@AlexM. nope, above
 
Yeah I thought about giving it a try
 
@Ell it's in your PFD
 
Ell
It's a very recent addition I think
 
can you show me a screenshot?
above to me means in the sky
 
Ell
pixel format descriptor? I'm using SDL anyway but I'll check it out
@AlexM. sorry, I meant north
 
12:00 PM
maybe a map?
 
Anyway ping me if you wanna grab a drink after the conf.
 
3 hours ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
> Om wraps React and still beats it in performance
 
user1804599
pizzel
 
user1804599
puzzel
 
user1804599
puxel
 
12:00 PM
fuck mutability
 
north of barb village is falador and the dwarf mines, black knight fortress... hmm
 
@BartekBanachewicz What is this "Om" thing?
 
there are bears, goblins, the 3 guys at the crossroads, dwarfs
 
@Puppy Clojure's intepretation
> ClojureScript interface to Facebook's React
 
Ell
@AlexM. do you know the stronghold of security?
 
12:02 PM
that's the dungeon I was talking about
 
user1804599
strongfold
 
the entrance is below the barb village
 
Ell
I think they are north of that though
 
you enter through a hole near the clay mines
 
Ell
I'll lgo on and see
 
12:03 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I'[m reading their page and it pretty much sounds like "How React is used", and there's nothing there about performance.
 
@Puppy look further? I've seen it when watching the Clojure talk
 
^ the entrance
 
hmm
 
user1804599
delete all your code and quit web development forever
 
12:04 PM
says here that they basically just added a thing for shouldComponentUpdate, which any React dev can do...
 
Ell
well fuck
2
 
someone asking for cracking one hour ago... damn I missed it
 
Ell
since when
 
and requestAnimationFrame can be used by any JS library, since it's a regular JS API.
 
Ell
I logged on like a couple months ago to get the cape
 
12:05 PM
@Ell RektScape
@Ell RektCape
 
so I really don't see anything special about Om here, they just did the shit that you would do if you wanted to go faster in React.
this just in: optimizations make your code faster.
 
user1804599
nice thing: you don't have to do it yourself anymore
 
we don't have to do it in the first place ;p
 
Ell
@AlexM. this sucks balls
I am an oldfag
I deserve the oldfag cape
this is bullshmidt
 
user1804599
then having it done for you wouldn't hurt anyway
 
12:06 PM
not older than me tho I started at the beginning of 2004
maybe end of 2003 can't remember
 
@Puppy congratulations, you became another Shitty Web Developer
 
the yoyo I got from santa in 2004 is my most precious possession
 
Ell
Oh wait. I started in 2004 as well
I think
 
user1804599
just wait for mill
 
@BartekBanachewicz What, "We wait until we actually have a performance problem before attempting to address performance problems"?
 
user1804599
12:07 PM
no more js
 
we're oldfags together then
 
Or maybe don't optimise if it's not necessary
 
@Puppy Next step: gold badge
and then perpetual glory
 
Our thing manages to do 50 requests/s before croaking :laffo:
 
Or maybe don't write innefficient code in the first place if it can be easily avoided
 
12:07 PM
@Ell What have you done?
 
the fact you don't profile and optimize from day 0 doesn't mean that a technology and methodology you use doesn't impact the performance from day 0
 
what makes you think we don't profile and optimize?
 
user1804599
nobody does
 
I haven't said that
 
Ell
it's a hack
 
12:08 PM
I used "you" generally
 
the performance of our client-side JS is simply not a hotspot for us... that does not mean that we don't profile or optimize.
 
Ell
it's a hack
@R.MartinhoFernandes no idea, I don't even play the game
 
2 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
@Puppy congratulations, you became another Shitty Web Developer
 
Ell
I quit years ago
 
that's pretty personally aimed at me.
 
12:09 PM
@Ell someone got your pass?
 
@Ell Quite the reputation you have if you get pre-emptively banned.
 
and used your account for botting?
 
@Puppy that was pretty personally aimed at "we don't have to do performance improvements"
 
@BartekBanachewicz In our client-side JS rendering code. Because we know we don't have a performance problem there.
 
Ell
 
12:10 PM
as if client-side JS was something that can run slow as fuck
 
Ell
^here is my history
 
this attitude is why web is such a shitty place
 
Morning
 
Ell
someone must have my password
 
If it ran slow as fuck it'd be optimised
 
12:10 PM
whatever anyway
 
That's what he's saying
 
... because people identified the hotspots in their app and then optimized them instead of randomly going around optimizing random bits on principle?
 
@Ell You had a dirty mouth, huh?
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes apparently vOv
 
that sounds like what you would do in any other context.
 
Ell
12:11 PM
though I think it probably wasn't me
 
nothing Web specific
 
yeah no.
whatever.
 
UI has to be responsive not fast anyway
 
loading bars are responsive
 
Ell
12:12 PM
my depth buffer is 16 bits it seems
 
@Ell You should probably be able to go with a 32bit buffer
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz no, web being dunning kruger fest is
 
@Ell Account sharing?
 
Webdev is special. Like gamedev.
 
like everydev
 
12:13 PM
wubdev
 
It cannot abide by good practices used everywhere.
 
Ell
@Mr.kbok I probably shared with my brother. but I probably also was hacked
 
compared to network or database, re-rendering client-side costs practically nothing, we only have a problem on mobile and even then, it's because we're rendering too much instead of reacting slowly to rendering different shit.
 
Ell
well, I know I was hacked a couple times
but always managed to recover the account
 
I hope the offer I get tomorrow is for C# and/or I'll be able to get into a C# team
 
user1804599
12:14 PM
hhahaaha reacting get it
 
because C# teams are prone to VS2015 from what I've heard and I've heard words like "not C++11" and "VS2008" on the other side D:
 
I hope some meteor hits the planet
3
 
user1804599
it'll be meteorjs
 
so far I have not found just using React to be slow enough to merit custom optimizations for responsiveness
the main "optimization" is just pagination so we're not throwing too much at the browser at one time.
 
@CatPlusPlus it's a big deal apparently nowadays
scientists ask for extra funds for spotting space rocks that may hit earth
something like "we only know about 1% of them so far"
 
12:16 PM
I just want this project to end
 
well
I'd better fuck off to Paris
wish me luck
 
There's a ton of NEOs.
 
Ell
@Puppy thanks
hmm 24 works but 32 doesn't. that's probably fine
 
Ell
@Puppy gl
 
12:16 PM
@Ell yes
 
Ell
still the artifacting
 
this motorcycle book is really good
 
Ell
I might try setting up OBS
 
I didn't understand how the gas impacts the turning nearly as well
and it turns out that getting off the gas in the turn is just the most shitty thing you can do
 
No that'd be programming
 
12:19 PM
My making a network cable is a failure
I have gigabit internet but 100meg ethernet
 
Could be worse, e.g. WiFi
 
user1804599
yay
 
user1804599
tomorrow hailstones as big as golf balls.
 
yes it's still faster than wifi anyway
 
Ell
12:24 PM
@rightfold ouch
 
but it sucks. Maybe I should have bought a category 6 cable
 
user1804599
@Mr.kbok we have 500ft of that lying around
 
Send them over there
 
5e is enough for 1GbE
 
@CatPlusPlus I get 70Mbit uploads over WiFi. How's your ethernet upload?
 
12:26 PM
long time; no see
what's crackin' Lounge<C++>?
 
I don't have Ethernet, just shitty WiFi
 
long time no C
 
Ell
I lost 1kg woop
 
@Ell Catch it!
 
@FilipRoséen-refp fast snail was trying to crack software
 
12:26 PM
@CatPlusPlus I can see how it can be frustrating
 
that's about it
 
Ell
Such a seemingly small step
 
Shitty ethernet is frustrating as well
 
Ell
But the first of many hopefully
 
Also 15Mbps upload total on the uplink so that's totally stupid comparison??
 
12:27 PM
@CatPlusPlus Even 5 is enough according to wikipedia. I don't know why it won't gigabit :/
 
@AlexM. is "fast snail" some new mascot of The Lounge that I don't know about, or simply a user?
 
But it's 5e that I got anyway
 
I don't recall one instance where I'd be annoyed by Ethernet hth
 
@FilipRoséen-refp user/troll/cicada whatever you want to call it
 
@CatPlusPlus it's as stupid as your overgeneralisations
 
12:27 PM
@Mr.kbok One of your adapters is incompatible with GbE probably
lol
 
@AlexM. I hear ya, I hear ya..
 
"I have shitty WiFi, so WiFi must suck in general"
 
No it's however many years of experience
 
argumentum ad catum experiencum
 
@CatPlusPlus Well the router advertises gigabit on the webz iface (you can force it), and the other is named "Gigabit ethernet adapter" so
 
12:28 PM
I'm not sure if I smell like sweat, or if it is coming from another office
 
It's intrinsically less reliable than cable and no amount of money will change that
 
this shit is annoying
I mean, I'm quite sure that it's not me - but this smell though
 
@Mr.kbok Check the settings
 
@CatPlusPlus that doesn't mean it's shitty.
Ethernet is also intrinsically less reliable than fiber optics
 
12:29 PM
@CatPlusPlus I did, it's auto everywhere. Forcing gigabit on either side makes the link drop. 100base tx is fine.
 
@BartekBanachewicz ?
 
@Mr.kbok Well then one of those is lying :v
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes interference
 
Maybe the Microsoft driver sucks
 
That's why STP exists
@Mr.kbok Do you have any other adapters connected or just those two?
 
12:30 PM
Other devices are just 100meg
 
100meg = 100 Megans, ie. porn (or a protest).
 
Well there's your issue then
 
but you can drag this on and on, home routers are less reliable than professional hardware etc etc
that doesn't mean a good home router isn't reliable enough for home use
 
It's not worth putting more money into WiFi vs putting more money into cable
Also no it's not
 
we have to redefine "home use" I guess
 
12:32 PM
Hell, the same amount of money buys you way more reliability on cable
 
@BartekBanachewicz You can get Cat6 SSTP cables for 1€/m.
 
So I really don't know why you're defending this so much
 
because it gives you other benefits than ethernet
which you dismiss as shitty just because you don't need them
 
WiFi works only semi-fine on localised APs, every piece of environment between you and the transmitter cuts the reliability
 
which is plainly dumb
 
It doesn't give you nearly enough benefits
 
Look at the shielding on this bitch.
 
I have my workstation and laptop docking station hooked via ethernet because why not
@CatPlusPlus That depends. You're still applying "cat's needs" scale and dismissing any other
 
user1804599
aaaaaaa discount percentage calculation breaks when the original price is 0 EUR
 
12:34 PM
57 secs ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
which is plainly dumb
 
user1804599
wat do help
 
stop treating your needs as the only needs that might ever occur to a person when assessing technology and I'll stop with that shitty crusade
 
@BartekBanachewicz I'll save this for later.
 
Ditto
 
Your C# and Ethernet fanboyism is topping the charts recently
I couldn't hype Haskell nearly as much and as well
 
user1804599
12:35 PM
not really
 
C# is nice tho
 
user1804599
Cat talks about C# much less than you talk about Haskell.
 
Is that a joke?
 
Also what's dumb is that being able to save some cable (which is literally the only benefit) makes it somehow better or worth investing in
 
12:36 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes no I really like C#
 
@AlexM. I meant what Bartek said.
 
@CatPlusPlus that's the only benefit you see
 
Okay enlighten me
 
there are other benefits you don't see or willingfully ignore
 
Is this WiFi vs Ethernet?
 
12:37 PM
@CatPlusPlus being able to use a device that isn't stationary but is connected to the internet without a cable
 
user1804599
aethernet
 
@CatPlusPlus Having dozens of devices easily added and removed from the network
 
user1804599
etternet
 
@CatPlusPlus Connecting devices that don't have an ethernet port; producing devices without said port can make them thinner/easier/cheaper
 
@BartekBanachewicz Which is saving cable
@BartekBanachewicz Which is saving cable also
 
12:39 PM
@CatPlusPlus no, the main goal there isn't "saving cable"
 
Guys
 
user1804599
Guy
 
This thread is pretty dumb. Come on, you are better than this.
 
@CatPlusPlus not only cable; routing it, drilling (potentially dozens) of holes for the cables, and physical act of plugging and unplugging
 
@BartekBanachewicz Being compatible with compatible things isn't benefit it's really an obvious given thing not worth mentioning?
@BartekBanachewicz Yes all those things is what I mean by saving on doing cabling (bad wording whatever)
 
12:41 PM
@CatPlusPlus that's why the sentence after ";". A mobile phone can hardly justify having an ethernet port.
 
@CatPlusPlus So by "doing cabling" you mean "doing everything even remotely relevant to using cables"?
yes, in that case I agree with you; wireless solutions are a way to avoid "doing cabling"
 
Doing cable infrastructure, cables themselves are nearly free
 
true, but then "cable infrastructure" can be very complex in some scenarios
also, again, mobility with cables is impaired
 
And it still doesn't make WiFi a better choice to put money in when both are equally available
 
12:44 PM
@CatPlusPlus because wandering around the house with a 25m cable hooked to your mobile phone is inconvenient; I wonder why this needs to be said
 
Ell
WiFi is a good choice when you can't rip up walls
Or plaster
 
"Equally available"
 
@CatPlusPlus it does if you want to utilize the benefits, e.g. connect a lot of devices and change them a lot
or if you want to use a non-stationary device(s)
 
Internet-enabled Roomba.
 
or if you already have some devices that can use wifi, where adding support for ethernet would mean more costs
 
12:45 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes like I said then, can you link me to a shop page so I can see specks, and let me know how much you'd want.
 
Yes sometimes you have to use shitty technology because you have no other option
 
that might be a 4th reason
all the 3 above make ethernet a worse choice vOv
 
No, because you're presenting options where Ethernet is not a choice at all
 
@CatPlusPlus that's not true
 
@thecoshman How in a hurry are you, btw? I'd rather wait a couple of days to sort out my living situation. If things go well, I'll move my stuff next Saturday, and then I can deal with all sorts of things.
 
12:47 PM
if you want to connect, say 50 devices and add and remove them on the fly, it's still possible perhaps to use ethernet
 
What devices for what
 
but is it sensible? Not necessarily
 
If you have 50 devices on WiFi most APs will croak
And really walking around the house with the device is such a dubious feature I doubt you ever really make use of it
 
@CatPlusPlus I do that all the time.
@CatPlusPlus You are assuming they are all active at the same time, which doesn't have to be the case
 
12:49 PM
Not that it matters because you can't not use WiFi there anyway
@BartekBanachewicz Uh
Then what's the on the fly
 
"Uh"?
@CatPlusPlus You'll need to rephrase that, I don't understand what you mean
 
Also yeah good benefit lol, I can have 50 devices but nope can't really use them
Which brings me back to reliability and handling any workloads higher than checking your stupid email
 
You can act as if they were all connected.
 
...but they're not since they're not active
 
Who needs WiFi when you can have wires
 
12:51 PM
but the "connecting" doesn't require making a physical connection
you're still assuming they need to be active to be connected
which is plainly wrong
 
Btw guys, did you notice almost all routers these days are hybrids?
Just saying.
You both sound like fools.
4
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes of course?
@R.MartinhoFernandes excuse me?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes So what?
 
@CatPlusPlus Is a PC that's turned off, with a cable plugged in, connected to the router or not?
 
12:52 PM
@BartekBanachewicz No
 
how would you differentiate it from a PC that doesn't have a physical connection with the router then?
 
Not for purposes of handling the load anyway
 
what wording would you use?
@CatPlusPlus I think you're dragging the discussion of the course.
 
Which is what plugging in 50 devices to the AP at the same time was about
 
no, that's what you imagined it was about
 
12:53 PM
There's doubly no connection with WiFi device when it's turned off, because the connection requires active exchange of packets
lol okay whatever
 
exactly; wording isn't nearly as relevant as the fact that those devices, perhaps not all at the same time, have access to the network
e.g. a printer connected to the wifi network will idle most of the time, similarly to a printer on an ethernet network
 
Unless there's two walls between them and the AP then they only have 40% access to the network
 
Stop leadlining your walls.
 
sometimes 40% is more than enough.
 
But really fuck WiFi idk why is this even a discussion
Oh right I don't want to work on this crap
 
12:56 PM
it's a discussion because you are still trying to confine the world to your needs and your needs only
 
Send help
Yes my needs are reliability and speed
 
until you realize that other people might have different needs which might prompt different networking choices, I won't leave a single unbased wifi criticism alone
 
user1804599
don't snort speed
 
@CatPlusPlus and some people want convenience and mobility.
 
12:57 PM
I must defend WiFi lest people use cables
 
@BartekBanachewicz So, this is still a discussion because you want it.
 
@CatPlusPlus it's not about not using cables when they make sense. It's about not dismissing wifi where it makes sense because it doesn't make sense in other scenarios
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes, a discussion typically involves participation.
 
I will never recommend WiFi to anyone when cables are a valid alternative
Sorry
 
which is a tautology.
 
No it's not
 
12:59 PM
or rather
it's equivalent to saying "I will never recommend wifi where cables would be bettter"
now, you only have to go to "I will never recommend cables where wifi would be better"
 

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