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Xeo
7:00 PM
cause the stdlib doesn't ADL
 
@gnzlbg I’m not sure I understand correctly, std::reference_wrapper<T> doesn’t swap itself.
 
@Xeo can't you put all the types in an internal namespace and ADL on that?
 
For swapping ref. wrappers you’d end up in the default swap, where T doesn’t matter (well, save for the semantics of std::reference_wrapper<T> assignment)
 
@LucDanton can't std::reference_wrapper swap the references without swapping the contents? (it should be just swapping pointers)
 
@gnzlbg Yes, that is what it does. I shouldn’t have mentioned the T assignment at all!
 
so why would anybody want to specialize std::swap for that?
 
I don’t know.
 
the normal swap should just swap the pointers just fine
 
Note that I picked a type a random that happened to live in std and didn’t have a custom swap for the sake of the argument.
 
Ah ok.
I thought that made sense
Im still looking for why would anybody explicitly specialize std::swap instead of using ADL (without taking into account std lib writers without a choice)
 
7:04 PM
I don’t get why you bring up library implementers.
 
because they can't ADL
so they can only overload or specialize within the same namespace
 
They can do whatever they want up to what’s observable. It’s a stretch to 'can’t ADL'.
 
I mean if they wanted to adl they could implement everything internally in different namespaces
 
That’s also a stretch.
I guess we could discuss what implementers can or cannot do but honestly that’s a different line of reasoning and quite complicated.
 
I mean all libc++ types are in the std::_1:: namespace
 
7:06 PM
@gnzlbg It’s an inline namespace.
 
anyhow
yes
 
Did you know you have to explicitly specialize in the original namespace?
 
kind of, when the function is in an inline namespace, you can specialize in the outer namespace, otherwise, yes
 
Right. So to make that work there are special rules for specializations re: inline namespaces. Guess what happens for ADL?
2 mins ago, by Luc Danton
I guess we could discuss what implementers can or cannot do but honestly that’s a different line of reasoning and quite complicated.
That’s as far as I go, I’mma sit it out.
 
ADL breaks namespaces forever
 
7:10 PM
Thanks @LucDanton, when I talk with myself about this stuff i get stucked. But the last couple of times you have pushed me forward :)
 
Ell
can anyone recommend to me a good laptop for browsing the web? I just need good battery life and build quality
and keyboard
 
user1804599
MacBook Pro.
 
@AlexM. There are many with that name :(
 
Get a tablet and connect a keyboard to it :P
Oh, hi @Ell.
 
Ell
@rightfold seems expensive for an internet machine vOv
 
7:14 PM
@Ell It will last forever as an internet machine though
 
Ell
True
 
It will be forever an internet machine
 
Ell
I'm planning on just putting gentoo and chrome on it really
I guess a chromebook would be good
 
as you can't do anything more ambitious on it.
 
Ell
but it's a little too minimalistic
 
7:15 PM
@milleniumbug :P
 
lolmebook
 
user1804599
@Ell you asked for a good laptop.
 
user1804599
So anything but a MacBook is out of the question.
 
@AndyProwl What YouTube video doesn't have audio?
> Relational databases have impotence mismatch.
lol
 
7:21 PM
I think you mean impedance.
 
> I suggest you pipe your data to /dev/null. It will be very fast.
 
user1804599
I wonder whether sendfile has a special case for /dev/null so that it'll just return immediately.
 
@fredoverflow I was expecting that :D
 
Oh, you probably mean the part where that guy stars talking about manure and reproductive organs and stuff.
 
Yeah
 
7:24 PM
I recently found this SE radio interview with Martin Thompson. Interesting if you like performance stuff.
 
@fredoverflow dat edit
 
user1804599
I can't wait to cut off the testicles of a three hundred pound raging bull as it tries to kick my head in.
 
@AndyProwl I was afraid the Lounge flagger might flag that.
 
@StackedCrooked We should focus on correctness first, performance is secondary. So please post a link about correctness.
 
Boring..
 
7:26 PM
Oh wait
 
My code is always correct.
 
it's indeed a technical interview about performance
 
Yeah, software that does exactly what the costumer wants... where's the fun in that?
 
I thought it was about some musical performance and wanted to make a funny joke
 
@AndyProwl lol
 
7:27 PM
I've read "radio", a name I didn't know, and "performance" and implied it was about a singer/musician
 
@AndyProwl You don't know SE radio?!?
 
@fredoverflow I don't (hides behind the desk in fear)
 
So they dropped SO TV in favour of SE radio?
 
I envy you, actually. You've got so many cool interviews to catch up to!
 
Really? Can you suggest some?
@milleniumbug I don't think SE means Stack Exchange
> Software Engineering Radio
 
@fredoverflow Thank you!
 
The one with Simon Peyton Jones was pretty good as well.
 
SE does a podcast
It's been around forever
 
7:31 PM
@fredoverflow I can't Scala :(
 
snack exchange that is
 
cool
 
@AndyProwl Be happy
 
lol
 
7:31 PM
@AndyProwl Scala is simple. It has fewer keywords than Java.
 
Is language complexity proportional to the number of keywords?
 
no.
 
@fredoverflow He’s on to you!
 
I don't know, but it's a fact often cited to support the simplicity of Scala.
 
it's not a fact, therefore it can't be a fact often cited to support anything.
 
7:34 PM
@fredoverflow What, seriously? As in matter of fact and not tongue in cheek?
 
@Puppy I mean the fact that Scala has fewer keywords than Java.
 
well, that's a fact, but it has nothing to do with simplicity of anything.
 
The first 20 seconds are already gold.
 
@fredoverflow these really annoy me :|
@fredoverflow lies!
 
@fredoverflow my parents are like that
 
7:40 PM
> The Internet is inside that little blue E.
rofl
 
I use Firefox at home and Chrome at work and I can barely tell them apart.
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow "What did you click?" "Some button that said: «Install spyware now.»" :D
 
@Puppy that's a good thing then. Browsers really should sink to the background and the sites them selves be what you think about using
 
@rightfold The video is fucking hilarious.
 
@Puppy That's probably because Firefox's entire modus operandi is to just copy whoever is in the lead.
 
7:49 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Sounds like a good plan to me.
 
Kinda means they're destined to be always second.
I mean, the plan worked when their target was IE.
But Chrome is a bit of a faster moving target.
 
seems to me like they get the benefit of crashing less.
and frankly, when it was 2009 then Chrome was so far ahead that I didn't mind that so much and it was more stable then, but now Firefox is right there in UI terms and Chrome is buggy as shit.
 
I don't really have a lot of issues with Chrome. Then again I throw 16 GB of RAM at it.
 
I swapped to Firefox when they put that giant search bar taking up 80% of the new tab screen that you couldn't get rid of.
Firefox's is a bit more reasonably proportioned and you get more recent websites too
 
You use the new tab screen for something other than immediately typing in something the omnibar?
 
7:58 PM
yes.
 
I really feel like you are never the typical user of any product.
 
yay me.
 
At least Firefox is fairly customizable.
 
I don't customize it at all except changing my download folder.
 
I'm more of the "prompt me every time" variety.
 
8:01 PM
I have no requirement for prompting.
everything goes in the "decide when you run out of hard drive space" folder
 
@Puppy works fine on mac though
 
s/mac/my machine/
@EtiennedeMartel Because I'm th eonly smart guy in the world.
 
friend operator bool operator==(const Bounds &l, const Bounds &r);
I might be needing some sleep.
 
just add { sleep(); }.
 
@Puppy s/your_machine/mac :)
@Puppy joking... actually I struggle with lots of C++ issues on mac, making g++/gdb work seamlessly is a huge pain. The only reason I'm not using Linux is the retina support, which frankly is a bit buggy. And Windows is just out of question (I do not have to develop for Win and frankly I don't like it).
 
user1804599
8:10 PM
Install Gentoo.
 
everyone knows that VS is the only acceptable IDE for C++, and that's only because the alternatives are somehow even worse than VS.
 
@Puppy I'm trying out CLion, seems relatively decent. Yes I heard good things about VS though...
 
you heard good things about VS? from who?
they were lying.
there's nothing good to be said about VS.
 
@rightfold Does it support retina out of the box?
 
user1804599
lol, people claiming editors that are not Vim are good
 
8:11 PM
there's just more bad things to say about the competition, which is amazing.
 
user1804599
@vsoftco Gentoo supports almost nothing out of the box.
 
oh wait, I will say one and exactly one good thing about VS, which is that I always found it to be very resistant to losing unsaved changes, even in the face of e.g. power failures.
 
@Puppy I heard from people around SO that they like it. Never used it, so I cannot say.
 
Install drivers to your retinas instead
:P
 
@milleniumbug lol, that's a good one
 
8:13 PM
@rightfold What exactly is so great about Vim? I could never get it to mark text :)
 
user1804599
I am used to it and only it.
 
user1804599
That's why it's great.
 
@Puppy In a backhanded kind of way there is: it sucks, but other IDEs are worse (mostly much worse).
 
user1804599
When I use inferior editors I end up with j and ; all over the place.
 
3 mins ago, by Puppy
there's just more bad things to say about the competition, which is amazing.
Microsoft need a Project Spartan for VS.
 
8:15 PM
@rightfold thanks for the tip, they actually have very detailed instructions on how to set it up on MBP retina, will give it a try
 
@Puppy What's the latest version of VS that you have tried?
 
2015 CTP 6
 
user1804599
gazette is great
 
user1804599
i love japanese music
 
by the way, if anybody asks, I am the Blamange.
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
AN AMERICAN FLAG?! PATRIOTISM DETECTED. NAZISM AND RACISM IMPLIED.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Could you be more specific?
I started watching that video only to observe that it's fifteen minutes long and I ain't gonna watch Obama cry about violence for 15 minutes
 
@Puppy He's on point for every single thing.
What he's saying, that's the entire issue right there.
 
Still, 15 minutes
 
8:25 PM
That's a lot of time. That's, like, fifteen times one minute.
 
it is a lot of time, that's what I just said
 
@EtiennedeMartel He may be right, but the police also fucked up big time. You don't use military terms agains population. And of course these kind of things attract violent manifestation, and there are lots of idiots that live only for these kind of protests. Similar to Paris in a sense.
 
@vsoftco I have the strange feeling you didn't watch the whole video before writing this.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I didn't, I'll watch it actually
@EtiennedeMartel so I don't say bullshit
 
> A Rust Contributor Tries Their Hand at Go
 
8:37 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Thanks. It is his last term. He knows what's good.
 
sbi
What's the robot doing in here on his tonight? Shouldn't he celebrate with friends?
Good evening, BTW.
 
@sbi I don't see him here...?
 
sbi
@fredoverflow Might be my flaky Internet connection not updating the list of users properly.
Dear Internet, I am afraid we have a bit of a strained relationship tonight because you are busy elsewhere. Will you stop that and serve me instead?
 
@sbi No.
 
@Rapptz boring!
 
8:40 PM
ikr
 
sbi
@Puppy You are not the Internet. You are just an angry twentysomething.
 
@sbi I am literally the entire Internet.
 
@Puppy So fat.
 
1 hour ago, by fredoverflow
> The Internet is inside that little blue E.
 
@sbi Also, I am not currently angry.
 
8:42 PM
@Rapptz Did you notice how enums and interfaces were conflated?
 
@Puppy Scala has fewer keywords than Java.
 
sbi
 
@fredoverflow True.
 
// public
type Thingy struct {
    tweedledee bool // private
    Tweedledum bool // public
}
 
@Puppy C++ has no GC, so you have to write new and delete everywhere.
 
8:42 PM
I didn't know this
 
@fredoverflow False.
@Rapptz Fail.
 
(for those that don't get it, capitalisation matters in Go)
 
Wait, public stuff must be upper case?
 
@Rapptz A few years back the issue was raised up for identifiers in scripts without cases, which was left at 'we don’t have a plan' at the time.
 
we already knew that Go was crap
 
8:43 PM
Not uncommon
 
sbi
@fredoverflow See the image above.
 
It was funny to me at the time because as I recall Unicode identifiers were simultaneously touted as a feature. It even appeared in hello world examples!
 
sbi
@Puppy So you think.
 
user1804599
@Puppy Noooo
 
user1804599
Go is awesome.
 
8:45 PM
@sbi Indeed, now I see him too, in the mist. But I haven't seen him being active in here in the last couple of hours.
 
Go is the worst language to come out since Java.
 
@Puppy That is a bold claim. PHP > Go?
 
yes.
 
user1804599
PHP is older than Java.
 
sbi
And what about Wide? :)
 
user1804599
8:48 PM
And the criteria clearly include being younger than Java.
 
"James Gosling, Mike Sheridan, and Patrick Naughton initiated the Java language project in June 1991"
"PHP development began in 1994 when Rasmus Lerdorf"
 
@sbi Wide hasn't come out :P
 
user1804599
Java appeared in 1996 whereas PHP appeared in 1995.
 
sbi
@Nican Age isn't just a question of when you were born.
 
I will take relativity into account next time.
 
sbi
8:50 PM
Some people feel old when in their teens.
 
Ell
@sbi Good evening!
 
sbi
@Ell Hey, the guy that keeps promising me a beer, but never delivers! :)
 
Ell
@sbi You've reminded me I need to start planning what to do with my summer
maybe this summer I'll pop round to berlin and finally deliver
 
sbi
@Ell Oh, this won't take that long.
 
Ell
8:58 PM
I'm thinking of getting an interrail global pass
then I'll be able to take a train to visit you and buy you a beer
then visit cat and bartek and buy them a beer
etc. etc.
 
sbi
I'd totally condone you coming to Berlin. I couldn't care less about polished cats.
 
user1804599
> Welcome to the Git Large File Storage
Early Access Program
 
user1804599
wooooo
 
Ell
I just need to look up some events occuring in Europe and plan my trip
 
seems that the paywalls of NYTimes and others is completely cookie dependent.
if you clear cookies or use the popular incognito mode, you can not get hit by the paywall for free.
 
sbi
9:05 PM
That's where you can read a few articles for free, and then need to pay for more?
 
yes.
 
looking for an Engineer / Developer role, feel free to pass along to anyone you think might be a brutal mental experience
 
they trust the client to keep track of how many you've viewed, it seems.
 
sbi
> A Markov-powered mashup of Erowid trip reports and tech recruiter emails.
2
 
9:06 PM
Yes
 
@Puppy Is it still possible to hide the page element that 'hides' the article?
I’m asking for a friend :v
 
@BartekBanachewicz if I take your code from 'Font.hpp' (in minicraft) do I more or less just need to add pugixml and some way of loading png (ie what I already have for loading png)
 
@LucDanton Dunno, I didn't try it.
 
@CatPlusPlus Wow, then I don’t want to look at the source material do I?
 
@CatPlusPlus somewhat disappointed when I read that penultimate 'n'
 
9:08 PM
moaning, holding ourselves to quell the inner pain: we are experiencing incredible growth.
@LucDanton It's probably not as funny
Oh hey Rust has 1.0 scheduled already
 
@LucDanton No. I mean, you can hide it, but the full article isn't loaded, so you can't see the rest anyway.
 
@CatPlusPlus Shit, there's an entire subreddit about that.
 
Maybe I was thinking of another news site then.
 
well I only checked nytimes
against which my information proved most solid.
 
1
Q: Sorting Array of Arrays with Strings in it

djfkdjfkd39939I am trying to sort an array with an array of strings in it. It is similar to this problem (Sort an array with arrays in it by string) but I wasn't sure how to implement that. My array is as follows var myArray = [ [1, 'alfred', '...'], [23, 'berta', '...'], [...

typo gets upvoted. w0t.
 
Ell
9:18 PM
meh. bioshock infinite won't launch :(
 
Props to whoever finds his professor from the homework he just posted. — Borgleader 9 secs ago
 
@Ell How fortunate for you that you are spared from having to play it.
 
Ell
@Puppy I already completed it once :D
It's an awesome game
 
I will say a prayer for you tonight.
 
sbi
The Bavarians just failed to score four times in a row in the penalty shoot-out. That was so bad, it was comical.
 
Ell
9:25 PM
I've also been playing Volgarr the Viking recently
that game is awesome too
if impossible :L
 
damn, I did not realize you also needed an exorcism
excuse my brain which farted all over that sentence for no raisin
 
Ell
What is it with you and raisins?
2
 
I will now leave Earth for no raisin.
 
@Puppy Earth has plenty of raisins.
 
clearly I just despise Earth so much that I must live on a planet that has no raisins.
 
sbi
9:29 PM
@EtiennedeMartel That's why he is leaving: for no raisins.
 
Clearly.
 
I'm glad that we can all agree on the clarity of my motivations and the actions I'm taking as a result.
 
@sbi So that's the Raisin D'être for his leaving?
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin I am slapping my thighs.
 
Ell
I posted a "raisin d'puppy" a few weeks ago
 
9:32 PM
I remember something about a raison d'puppy
 
@sbi Are they cold or something?
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin No, but allegedly this is what you do when laughing really hard.
 
i thought you rolled on floors while laughing your ass off
 
Allegedly.
 
@sbi Sounds suspect to me. I'd say "it must be a German thing", but I know better...
 
9:33 PM
If no beer is involved, it's not a German thing.
 
I can imagine people doing that, tbh
 
sbi
That's just what you young folks do. We older folks slap our thighs.
 
@Blob You suppose if Kim Kardashian did that a few dozen times, she'd start to look closer to normal again?
 
@JerryCoffin only if she did it at near the speed of light
 
@JerryCoffin I think she needs to be a bit rounder first. Physically, mentally, literally, and metaphorically.
 
sbi
9:36 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Try to do this with a glass of beer in your hand.
 
#JustGermanThings
 
@sbi I'll pass on both thebeer and the slapping.
 
Ell
Apr 17 at 10:02, by Ell
@Puppy raisin d'puppy: http://i.imgur.com/9C52A2j.png
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel That's Austrian, BTW, not German. Not that I could have told, of course, if it hadn't been written in the description.
 
@sbi I figured as much considering the title contained the word "Austria".
But, aren't Austrians degenerate Germans?
 
sbi
9:41 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Considers last year's clients in Austria. Never heard of this one.
 
Damn the S5's camera sucks at low light.
 
I have no opinions on the degeneracy or lack thereof of Austrians.
 
@Puppy That's strange, you usually have an opinion on everything.
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel He's getting old. (Dogs do that much faster than we primates.)
@JerryCoffin Ask me what?
@R.MartinhoFernandes About what?
 
Xeo
Time for sleep
 
sbi
9:49 PM
What happened to you guys staying up all night coding?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Now that you mention it, the Austrians were in favor of the Kleindeutsch model (whereas, if memory serves, Prussia favored the Grossdeutsch "solution").
@sbi About Great apes/Gorillas/Bonobos.
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin Actually, it was an Austrian...
 
@JerryCoffin Gross deutsch.
 
@sbi Guess that shows how crappy my memory's gotten. It was only...hmmm, well, can't be much more than a decade or so ago when I last spent time reading about that particular part of history...
 
Damn, Prussia was huge.
 
sbi
9:54 PM
@JerryCoffin You were saying "the Austrians", while I talked about one particular individual. So I wasn't really contradicting you. But Hitler was an Austrian.
@EtiennedeMartel At what time. :)
 
@EtiennedeMartel That's what she said
 
@sbi Right before it became not Prussia.
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin That's an interesting video. See how the guy looks down (and not into the silverback's eyes)? Didn't we just have this discussion here?
 
@sbi Oh, I was thinking of well before Hitler's time.
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah, it had taken over pretty much all the other German states before they changed the name.
@sbi I guess I hadn't noticed any videos here recently (but probably wouldn't watch at work even if I had).
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin Oh, I just followed the links back.
 
Xeo
10:00 PM
@sbi Work happened
 
@sbi Oh, that one. Yeah, I did watch that (at least from a quick glance, the beginning looks really familiar).
 
sbi
@Xeo Oh c'mon! I thought you guys were so much better than we old farts and would not let that happen!? At your age, I...
 
@sbi Work.
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin This is the Koko, @Alex talked about. Pretty interesting. I had read about that gorilla. There's also Chimps who were taught ASL and expressed emotions and such through it.
 
I wonder how it would be like if all humans left the planet and returned N years later
 
sbi
10:06 PM
N years would have passed.
 
to see another human-like civilization evolved from something that tries to do the same thing
 
sbi
Or not to see that.
Who knows.
 
10:23 PM
we would probably be eventually succeeded by another great ape along the same evolutionary curve
much like all the other Homo, who got wiped out by us.
 
I'm disappoint. This room is not really about cooking.
4
@Ell Hey Ell :)
@rightfold Nietes!
 
> TIL that on the 1 year anniversary of it's completion, the Mars Rover "Curiosity" sang itself Happy Birthday. All alone. On Mars.
:(
 
welp
gotta go to work tomorrow
 
10:41 PM
Neat. There's an android app for stack exchange chat.
@AlexM. I'd be more afraid if Curiosity wasn't alone.
 
@sehe Don't say that, you'll attract them.
 
10:56 PM
@AlexM. :( (warning: loud & potato)
 

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