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2:01 AM
Deadline missed
@chmod711telkitty How is that even incompatible
 
@Cicada It isn't. Creation and evolution aren't incompatible either if you phrase it as "god created the big bang".
 
God evolved from the big bang
 
@Cicada Why not? I love gourmet food. Exercising & hang out in nature makes me happy.
 
Yeah but that doesn't mean you can't be religious
 
@Rapptz "Pacman" ("MS Pacman", on Windows)
 
2:06 AM
hey gnome is making their own ide
 
@Mysticial Lumping evolution and the Big Bang together is the kind of muddying creatonists do.
 
@JerryCoffin Make it more gimmicky: paCman.
 
@Prismatic Would be great if they could fix their DE first
 
@LucDanton Oh. I didn't know that. I thought it was something mostly the people on the sideline say just to get both sides to shut the hell up and stop fighting.
 
@Nooble wtf are you doing
or trying to do
 
2:07 AM
@Cicada yeah the DE is just... ugh
should I... should I switch to the new KDE
is it stable
 
@Mysticial That is also one reason.
 
Does it require a 128 bit address space
 
just use XFCE like real men
 
XFCE is alright I guess. I use it on my laptop
real men dont need no DE tho
 
real men use i3
 
2:09 AM
@Cicada Most religions have a period where they give up food or things they love doing.
 
Not MY religion
 
@Cicada muslims does fasting & gluttony is a deadly sin in christianity, also buddism makes you follow a vegan diet
 
@Cicada Real men write 1s and 0s by influencing puny earth-dwellers to build pyramids.
 
@Mysticial Well, kinda. But not lumped together. E.g. the Catholic Church acknowledges both the Big Bang and evolution, as part of the divine plan. The former does not imply the latter.
 
@chmod711telkitty Say that to America /cc @LightningRa
 
2:11 AM
There's also lent in Christianity.
 
@chmod711telkitty "deadly sins" in Christianity is a misconception/misunderstanding.
 
@LucDanton Interesting. I always thought they were hard on strict to the word as written in the bible including the 6000 years or whatever.
 
religions really missed out on a chance to make their followers swole
imagine christians had to run laps every time they went to church
 
And/or understand thermodynamics
AND THEN THE LORD SAID
IF TWO SYSTEMS ARE BOTH IN THERMAL EQUILIBRIUM WITH A THIRD THEN THEY ARE IN THERMAL EQUILIBRIUM WITH EACH OTHER
And it was good.
 
2:16 AM
@Mysticial They are and they aren't--they're pretty strict in some ways, but leave it pretty open that 1) scientific fact and religious fact aren't really even talking about the same sorts of things, and 2) God isn't bound by our definition of a "year" (for only one example).
 
inb4 Other 1.0
 
> religious fact
 
@Rapptz I still say Pacman (and MS Pacman).
 
taken
by Arch GNU/Hurd/Linux
 
@Rapptz clearly you should name it "other".
 
2:18 AM
@ThePhD cast your vote please
2 mins ago, by Luc Danton
inb4 Other 1.0
 
lucpm 2015
 
@Cicada i wasn't here, okay?
 
+1 for "other"
 
@Cicada I believe that phrase is directly from a paper I read talking about how the Catholic church does not see a direct conflict between the theory of evolution, and Creation as told in the Bible. [Warning: I don't think that paper is considered official dogma of the Catholic church--but its author was later elected Pope, so apparently it's not considered heretical or anything like that either.]
 
this must be how regret feels like
 
2:21 AM
we're making progress
at least we've eliminated 2 names
 
@Rapptz And so? Stomp on them!
 
rip cxxpm
 
OMG STAR WARS!
 
Cinch alert
 
+1 for "regret"
 
2:22 AM
@Blob I don't really know.
 
cxpack sounds lame
it needs a cool logo
for it to be cool
otherwise it's lame
 
@Rapptz "pack" (without anything to indicate "manager") sounds like it's supposed to be some sort of compressor/archiver kind of thing.
 
I recommend "ICEpack". Cool already.
 
too bad Rust took arguably the coolest name
 
@Rapptz You're Muslim too?
 
2:23 AM
Cargo or crates?
 
cargo
 
Agreeing with Jerry there. pack not a good idea
 
@Cinch I am an ex-muslim.
 
Nobody's perfect. At least you're not American.
 
@Rapptz That's totally against my expectations based on your behavior and profile picture lol
 
2:24 AM
I don't think I've ever been a muslim tbh.
Just my family was.
Not me.
 
@Rapptz I am really confused about your ethnicity.
 
I've always been an atheist afaik.
 
@MarkGarcia +1
 
@MarkGarcia Foreigner
 
@MarkGarcia Everything.
 
2:25 AM
@Rapptz Can I have you in my programming team?
 
lol
 
user3010322
@Cicada What happened to cpack ?
 
@Cinch @Cicada @Rapptz I think we now have an agreement.
 
taken by CMake
 
@LucDanton Also I can't decide whether you're Lucian or Luke
 
user3010322
2:26 AM
Oh t's fucking taken.
 
I'm going to think you're Luck.
 
Luc Danton is a French pun
it's not his name
 
cman?
 
@Rapptz ill help make a logo if you guys are serious about cxxpack
 
ccpack
 
2:26 AM
@Cinch Luc is a french name
 
or whatever you call it
 
user3010322
Is cxxpack taken too?
 
@Cicada Of course it's French sigh.
 
@Cinch Yes it is
 
@Cinch Well he is from France..
 
user3010322
2:27 AM
Goddamn it's taken for R.
 
Name it LoungePack or Lounge* already!
 
What is this CPack?
 
user3010322
Fuck people and their naming of shit.
 
right
 
Or what is @Rapptz working on?
 
2:27 AM
let's just call it argv[0] and call it a day
 
oh I just realized argv means "argument vector"
 
@Rapptz so which one of both
 
@Rapptz All right, if you won't accept Pacman (but you should), you can try one that reminds us all of Luc. Just name it "The Force". Grand-sounding, but basically meaningless--the perfect sort of thing for marketing.
 
lucpm!
 
what did you all think of the new star wars trailer
 
2:28 AM
a perfect mix of Luc Danton, C++, and Package Management.
 
Oh it's a C++ pack manager?
Call it Care++
 
I think the sith dude looks lame
 
Bjarne_Pack with a sparkling Bjarne logo.
TMPack
 
"Care package"
 
but I like the chrome trooper
 
2:29 AM
@Prismatic I don't like Kylo Ren either lol
BB-8 idk yet either
 
I dont knowo who that is
 
bikeshedding aside we could work on the sat solver thing
 
im glad we're getting cameos though... dat chewy
 
@Rapptz heresy
 
@Rapptz As in choosing which one to incorporate right?
 
2:30 AM
ofc
 
> Modern SAT solvers (developed in the last ten years) come in two flavors: "conflict-driven" and "look-ahead"
That's a nice word to describe someone, "conflict-driven".
 
@Cicada ISIS
 
isis what you did there!
 
MLM
What is a better way to have a generic type with some std::forward style constructors for type deduction; and then be able store them nicely (without auto or as a member of another type for example)? coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/50345a2d1519dd1d
 
user3010322
2:35 AM
.-.
 
user3010322
Something something nice words.
 
@MLM You can’t really beat that. Most straightforward solution is to turn PointCloud into a class template. Else you’ll need some form of type-erasure.
 
user3010322
Given a pool of 100 meter radius, you dump 100 fish at random places in that pool. Then, you dump 1 single predator in that pool. This is some special kind of hermaphroditic fish that can reproduce with itself, meaning every day every fish makes its own fully-grown offspring the next day. The predator can consume everything every hour instantaneously in a 20 meter radius. Fish and predators swim in no intelligent manner.
 
user3010322
I program the simulation as described.
 
user3010322
THE SIMULATION NEVER REACHES CONVERGENCE.
 
user3010322
2:38 AM
EVER.
 
@ThePhD That actually sounds like fun
 
user3010322
The predator would have to consume OVER 1/2 of the fish EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DAY or the fish population will DOUBLE EVERY FUCKING DAY.
 
user3010322
I introduce a new constraint: Fish are no longer hermaphroditic and it takes 2 to make 1 fish.
 
user3010322
I tell the Professor this constraint and show them 250 runs of the program which run for 100+ days with NO CONVERGENCE IN SITE AND TRYING TO CONSUME ALL OF MY COMPUTER'S MEMORY.
 
user3010322
Then I show it with my constraint with a 100% rate of convergence where the fish all finally get eaten or the predator starves from not being able to catch fish and dies.
 
user3010322
2:40 AM
Get told my assumption is not what is asked for and that it's wrong.
 
@ThePhD Solving that in a circular pool makes it quite complicated, I guess.
 
user3010322
Still don't have a single run of the program that converges where the predator actually finally dies out.
 
user3010322
So I'm just sitting there.
 
user3010322
Twiddling my thumbs.
 
user3010322
Watching this Java program bloat and eat all of my RAM.
 
user3010322
2:41 AM
With fucktons of Fish.
 
MLM
@LucDanton Any good links about type erasure? It has been mentioned before but I still don't really get what is meant by that term.
 
user3010322
It's like my Professor doesn't realize without the constraint I proposed that he's made a simulation that has a doubling-effect every day.
 
> 1 single predator
that's sad /cc @sehe
 
user3010322
And he still wants this program to converge.
 
@MLM I don’t think I have any, sorry. Most stuff discusses how to do it, not e.g. what it’s for.
 
2:44 AM
@ThePhD But the predator eats 24 times a day
 
user3010322
@Cicada And still can't beat the growth rate. Fancy that.
 
user3010322
There's enough fish to keep the predator from dying (millions in a 100 radius pool), and there's enough fish not being eaten to always have population growth.
 
@MLM You can run into type-erasure with e.g. an std::vector<std::unique_ptr<base>>. Each element has 'forgotten' which derived type it actually points to—that’s what’s being erased. std::vector<std::function<void()>> is the same, where the actual functor type is erased/forgotten as well.
 
user3010322
Unless RNJesus comes and saves me, this program isn't going to have a single successful run.
 
guys
 
user3010322
2:46 AM
Maybe I should keep running the program and figure out the perfect Seed.
 
So the difference between a PointCloud<Point> and an erasing PointCloud is that the former is homogeneous in the type of the points it holds, while the other one can be heterogeneous. That is in fact where I advise you to draw the line.
 
user3010322
Then force the program to use that Seed in the final version I send in to be graded.
 
user3010322
I should program the shark to always go to the area with the most fish.
 
@ThePhD It's Java. You can hide everything with a ton of bullcrap classes.
 
user3010322
BUT WAIT, THAT'S NOT ALLOWED EITHER BECAUSE IT'S NOT TO SPECIFICATION.
 
user3010322
2:48 AM
Flips a table.
 
user3010322
Fuck university, fuck professors, fuck Computer Science.
 
user3010322
Fuck you, and you, and you in particular. Fuck everybody.
 
MLM
@LucDanton hmm, So using type-erasure in this case would be just generic-tizing everything to the point of just forgetting what it was (which is essentially useless). Having default template parameters as float for Point_type and doing Point_type<> start; isn't too bad I guess: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/10edc9cf0c59565e
I wish Point_type could be aliased to Point but those name conflicts :(
 
@MLM You can look into how the Standard Library does it for inspiration: std::string is a shortcut for std::basic_string<char> which is a defaulted form of std::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char>>.
 
Bjarne_case spotted.
 
2:54 AM
So you could have a family of class templates and a family of aliases to specific specializations of those templates.
 
I'm going to expand on my lovely string_traits thing.
 
MLM
Point_type doesn't seem like a best practice name. What is a better way to name this sort of back-end type that is still sorta front-facing when storing?
 
Where did you learn Bjarne_case from
@MLM I'd call it basic_point.
 
@MLM For class templates that are meant to be used with a deducing factory I do it like you do, except with snake_case. So point_type<…> point(…);.
 
Also your code is bad.
Line 18 is casting away the const
 
MLM
2:58 AM
@Rapptz Elaborate if you are willing :)
 
Oh my god
 
Also you're doing an implicit conversion to string.
 
@ThePhD Calm down. I can see myself two years ago :) just learn to dismiss that
 
That's pretty ugly.
 
I'm in a club meeting right now and I hear the word "fun"
 
2:59 AM
@MLM btw have you tried int var = 0; auto p = point(var, var);?
 
Ugh
 
I think it might lead you to things you didn’t expect.
 
He learned those factory functions from me.
Except when I showed him the trick.
It was the expected behaviour.
 
MLM
From the expect chaining stuff with Macchiato - which Rapptz helped with
 
Yes.
 
3:00 AM
Alright then.
 
But really man.
Your Point_type class is pretty bad.
Don't do those implicit conversions.
Do a free function to_string or something.
 
MLM
Working on those critiques atm
 
@Nican extra panel: "Also, some groups are just 100% assholes"
 
Any experts on Sse2 intrinsics around?
 
On a semi-related note.
What does basic_ mean?
 
MLM
3:04 AM
Trying to think through what goes wrong with Luc's snippet. It does print (0, 0)
 
@Rapptz it's simple with only 200 member functions
 
@Rapptz 'This is shorter than generic_' is my guess. I use that one. It’s very long.
 
I use basic_X or X_type
but I never know what basic_ means
 
@MLM Do you expect your points to be assignable? E.g. p = point(3, 4);?
 
it's everywhere in the stdlib too
 
3:06 AM
Uh.... Meant to be inherited?
 
@MLM Ask yourself why you're making it generic in the first place.
@Cinch lel
 
Or owned?
Or just basic
 
You can't inherit from basic_string.
 
K good to know
 
Well you can.
It just has no virtual destructor.
 
MLM
3:07 AM
@Rapptz I was using just floats but then ran into a situation where maybe I want to use some double precision. But I want to keep the memory low (target is a microcontroller, less memory = better situation) so using float based Points is good-enough in many situations
 
If your set of types is small you could play around with it a little.
 
@MNagy I am expert in Sse2 intrinsics with 8+ years experience
 
I have some fun hacks that Luc will disapprove of.
 
lovely!
 
Manually extended types go
Float 9000 bytes
 
MLM
3:08 AM
@LucDanton Interesting hmm. Not immutable 0.0 atm
 
@Cicada lol
 
@Cicada I want to replace #define REDS2(x) (((x) & 0xFFFF) + ((x) >> 16)) with sse2 intrinsics
 
That's a good idea
What does it do?
 
my code thus far looks like
    n = _mm_srli_epi32(t, 16);
    t = _mm_and_si128(t, dwordlowerhalf);
    t = _mm_add_epi32(t, n);
it's a small part of a cryptographic hash function
where dwordlowerhalf is basically 4 instances of 0x0000ffff
what I'm wondering is
 
Let me just check my manual for a second
 
3:10 AM
why aren't I getting the correct output
 
-1 no @
 
my best guess is that bits aren't being carried properly
 
you mean without the proper safety attire?
 
oh.
 
You need at least level 2 certified bit carriers for this
 
3:11 AM
you're messing with me, aren't you :S
 
No, I did ping our local SSE2 expert @Mysticial, so I'm not being entirely useless there
 
Mysticial is still RIP'd from that sick burn from earlier
 
What burn
@MNagy Have you tried a debugger
 
you're... joking, yes?
yes, I've been using a debugger.
 
@Rapptz Which one?
 
3:14 AM
none
 
Aaaand what did you find out
 
you have been zimbabweed
 
I found out that the lower high bits in the result are sometimes incorrect
usually by just a little, suggesting that the carried bits from the sum may not be correct
 
Do you have a test case?
 
I have 256 of them, yes
 
3:16 AM
That sounds like something which can be isolated fairly easily
 
oh yes, I've isolated it to right here.
 
@MNagy No one uses a debugger in SO.
 
well, that's silly of them
 
@MNagy No, I mean the values
For which value does it fail
Step into
 
ah. I can give you examples. Let me get some
 
3:17 AM
See what is going on in the registers
etc
 
@Cicada A wild party
 
Alternatively rewrite everything in Java
 
MLM
@Rapptz How do I not cast away const without getting conversion error? static_cast<std::string>((Point_type)p);
 
@CatPlusPlus Everyday I'm _mm_shuffle_epi32ing
wait what
too much negation
 
How can I tell if I’m being immolated or GCC is being clueless.
 
3:30 AM
so, some examples
correct outputs:
0x0000cf9f
0x0000ae8d
0x000047d9
0x0000ec18
0x000008e0
0x00003e91
0x0000e2d9
0x0000fa24
0x00001a03
0x00000d20
0x0001015f
0x0000dea7
current outputs:
0x0001cf9f
0x0001ae8d
0x000147d9
0x0001ec18
0x000008e0
0x00013e91
0x0001e2d9
0x0001fa24
0x00001a03
0x00000d20
0x0001015f
0x0000dea7
 
a) please put that on a gist or pastie or something and b) what's the INPUT
 
@MLM Don't cast away the const.
 
MLM
@Rapptz :\ I get conversion errors if I don't. Is it possible to not cast away const and still use the std::string operator output? currently doing std::string((Point_type)p);
 
gist or pastie?
I don't know what that means
input is this:
0xffffcfa0
0xffedaea0
0xffe147f8
0xfff8ec20
0x000008e0
0xffff3e92
0xfff9e2e0
0xfffefa26
0x00031a00
0x00140d0c
0x01dfff80
0x0007dea0
 
@MNagy go to hastebin.com paste code, save, post link here
 
3:35 AM
@MLM Ask yourself: why the errors? Stripping away const-qualifiers is almost never the right solution.
 
inb4 "Unless it is"
 
@Cicada Never!
 
Um.
Take input 0xffffcfa0 for example.
0xffffcfa0 >> 16 is 0xffff, and 0xffffcfa0 & 0xffff is 0xcfa0. Add those, the result is indeed 1cf9f
 
yes
 
3:47 AM
So what's wrong?
 
but the screwy thing is that the REDS2 macro produces the correct output
 
MLM
Well that was a bit confusing; My problem was I couldn't find a solution on how to do it properly. explicit operator std::string() const { /*...*/ } and std::string(p); seems to work good: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/c6e4316a01e847cb
 
I guess the real issue is that I don't fully understand why the REDS2 macro produces the output it does
like, I'd expect it to be equivalent to the 16 bit addition
and it ALMOST is
except for that one case
 
How about masking the extra bit then
 
a possible solution, but a pretty inelegant one
I'm trying to maximize the over hash rate
also, I don't even know the rules for the masking really
I'm working on a test input
for which I know the output
the interesting thing is
that one case is the only case I've found where REDS2 diverges from the intrinsics with 16bit addition
and I don't know WHY it does
not knowing why, I can't put together a special condition for just it
 
3:53 AM
The macro gives 1cf9f too
I have no idea how you get cf9f
 
iow there’s more to it than just what you’ve shown us
 
Have you checked for cosmic rays
 
obviously that doesn’t explain some of the larger results
but considering that the macro can be used on signed or unsigned arguments of whatever widths and then the result be stored in with whatever signedness and whatever width I’m not going to search for all of it
tl;dr macros suck
 
agreed
and I want to replace it
the only other context that I can think of that might help
is that t, when being fed into it is unsigned
hmmmm
 
Possibly you can crank up the warnings to try and guess if some bits are being lost on the way.
 
3:57 AM
@MNagy Wait is that a mirror thing
 
the x that's being fed into the macro is a product of an int32_t and a uint16_t
I'm guessing that matters
@Cinch ?
 
@MNagy Oh I'm wondering but I'm wrong. 'scuse me.
 
I honestly didn't think you could even USE emoji in variable names. Or that there were so many different crying ones.
8
 
I didn't write that stupid macro, man
I just need to get the rules by which it operates down exactly so I can consign it to oblivion
 
@Nooble did u just go offline u skrub. come back D:
 
4:20 AM
VICTORY
I have the answer
it needs to be an arithmetic shift, not a logical one
_mm_srai_epi32, not _mm_srli_epi32
because arithmetic shift preserves signed bit
 
@MarkGarcia Sure looks like it.
 
It's quite... appropriate though. Punny-appropriate.
 
Yeah, I wondered for a moment if it might not be intentional, but decided probably not.
 
4:35 AM
@Blob Why hello again
 
@Cinch ?
 
So I sent out my farewell email to my colleagues today. The reaction was should I say... not what I expected. Now half the office thinks I have an MBA and I'm going to Wall Street... Fuck.
 
@Mysticial Where in the world would they get that from?
 
> But, I'm sad to say that I've decided to move on to take on a new challenge in the financial industry.
and
> for a completely different career almost on the other side of the country.
 
@Mysticial "sad"?
 
4:45 AM
@Mysticial ohhh lol
What do you mean "not what I expected" are they sad or mad?
 
@Blob Most farewell emails say that. In my case, I am genuinely sad that I'm leaving a very comfortable job for something completely unknown.
 
@MarkGarcia It looks like it is so common that it even has a Wiktionary page: en.wiktionary.org/wiki/greatful
 
@Mysticial Oh.
Well I don't know what to say man.
btw should we use first names here or no?
 
@Cinch who's?
 
4:48 AM
@Blob everyone's
for example, I know Rapptz is Danny
 
@Cinch just use nicks :|
 
As far as the two years of I've been there, everyone who has left the company did so either for a startup or to hop between tech companies. I guess my case is different since I'm hopping industries.
 
@Mysticial Are you really?
@Blob Who's Nick again? /s
 
@Cinch Depends on how you look at it. Yes I'm hopping industries. But the work I'll be doing is still programming related.
 
@Mysticial Interesting.
 
4:50 AM
After all, no I do not have an MBA. I'm a (grad) college drop-out. I'm not going to be a stock broker, or a financial advisor, or anything of that sort.
 
@Mysticial Actually maybe I should try and tap SO for internships eventually
You seem like an interesting guy to network with
 
Someone flagged xkcd feeds? lol
 
Dang that’s one obscure GCC failure to track.
 
@Mysticial Not enough world class
@Mysticial You filth
 

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