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8:00 PM
> Google I hope someday you close your search engine and company at all. Welcome to Google Cemetery.
@jPlatte Fewer features doesn't automatically mean "bad"
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit ^^
 
> we're axing for help
 
I will definitely hire them
 
@Borgleader Montréal eh. How can you be that shit in English here.
 
SGU finale :(
 
8:04 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I know, and I'm all for simplicity. Maybe Eclipse with less features would even be a nice IDE ^^
I just made that comparison because both are cluttered with toolbars and huge application menu structures; probably wasn't the best comparison...
 
VIM+few plugins is all you need
 
> the code was about 85-90% done when we found it
not sure what they did then
 
@khajvah vim is nice, but it takes long to learn and even after learning how to use multiple cursors and having all the plugins coming with that "spf-13 vim" thing, I feel more productive using GitHub's Atom Editor.
 
@CaptainGiraffe It's easy to set up and it's lightweight.
 
I spent about 2 weeks to get used to vim and now I can't use anything else. Even when I use and IDE, the first thing I do is searching for a vim plugin
 
8:11 PM
@Rapptz vim and Makefile is lightweight gets the job done and is less error prone.
 
lol "less error prone"
 
@khajvah Atom has one! Though it's either crap, or it was when I last tried it, or I was just too dumb to figure out how to find the stuff I wanted.
Could give it a try again...
 
user1804599
jPlatte, you are cute.
 
I don't know why I'd use Atom over ST.
 
Yeah, it is not "less-error prone" but you are certainly few times more productive with just vim-style navigation.
 
8:13 PM
@райтфолд by what means? frowns
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow My monad tutorial is the best monad tutorial.
 
@Rapptz Atom is open source I think
 
@райтфолд FUCKING USE THEM?
 
user1804599
@Rapptz Because it's the new hipster thing.
 
user1804599
 
8:15 PM
Wait, weren't you going to abstract that tutorial, so it fits other topics as well?
 
Huh, what's "ST"?
 
user1804599
Sublime Text 3.
 
Sublime Text 3.
 
Oh okay
 
sublime texxt
 
user1804599
8:16 PM
@FredOverflow Nah.
 
Yeah, I've not tried that yet
 
user1804599
This one is monomorphic.
 
ST costs $70
 
And I won't, since I know it's similar to Atom, and it's not open source in contrast to Atom.
 
@khajvah WinRAR free.
 
8:17 PM
vim free
 
I was actually thinking of paying though.
I've been pondering for a while but I guess I could just do it.
 
I can use Atom in my own projects?
 
@jPlatte Atom is piss poor slow.
 
user1804599
 
@FredOverflow What do you mean by using it "in" your projects?
 
8:18 PM
Now here's my next fistula, why is sublime so popular. I'd accept it as an editor addon.
 
@jPlatte Like, if you write an IDE or something.
 
What's this trend to use javascript in desktop apps?
 
@CaptainGiraffe Because it's a good extensible editor.
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow No, it's inert.
 
Oh, Atom is JS? Nevermind then.
 
8:19 PM
@FredOverflow I'm pretty certain you can.
 
@khajvah It's a response to the fact that they have a shitload of people who know JS and nothing else.
 
.sexy domains.. I didn't even know they existed
 
@FredOverflow Yeah hence.. piss poor slow.
The syntax is represented by HTML.
 
Yeah, it's based on Chromium, and has nodejs / iojs as dependency, so it has to be partly written in JS
 
user1804599
It's not slow because it's written in JS.
 
8:20 PM
Which is also another reason why it's fucking slow.
 
@jPlatte Are you German?
 
@Rapptz Stop right there, JS is compiled to native code
 
@FredOverflow Haha, yeah. How'd you know?
 
@Rapptz It is a reasonable editor for mouse heavy users.
 
that doesn't mean it's compiled to efficient native code.
 
8:20 PM
@CaptainGiraffe I don't use the mouse.
 
or that they do infact compile it all to native code.
 
@jPlatte I dunno, "Platte" sounds kinda German.
 
Nice try though.
 
user1804599
@jPlatte "Platte"
 
Dec 8 '13 at 13:16, by FredOverflow
@MartinJames Us Germans have the upper hand in the Lounge. We rule das Lounge mit ein Iron Faust!
 
8:20 PM
or that compiling it all to native code doesn't take for fuckin' ever
 
@Puppy I can speak about node.js and it is pretty fast on servers
 
is Atom a server
 
yes, I appreciate your irrelevant anecdote, it makes a big difference to my logic.
 
@Rapptz The people I see using sublime are using the mouse to click tabs and scroll in the very nice outline view
 
@Rapptz you put node.js everywhere these days.. I'd use it with paint too
 
8:21 PM
it should use the same technology
 
no it shouldn't
 
user1804599
 
it would be stupid to not compile to native code
 
I think the slowdown (which I haven't really experienced) comes from the fact that the whole *cking UI is built with HTML and CSS
 
@CaptainGiraffe If you want to use your mouse go ahead. Otherwise ctrl + pageup/pagedown or ctrl + n to switch tabs is fine.
 
8:22 PM
@khajvah Compiling to efficient native code takes forever.
 
I don't like how it's built either, but I don't have to contribute, and didn't yet have substantial problems with its performance.
 
user1804599
@Puppy Good thing you start the editor only once ever.
 
user1804599
Also, it doesn't.
 
So I'm kind of okay with it being implemented like it is.
 
user1804599
JS isn't C++.
 
8:23 PM
no, you're right, it's far worse in this regard since you have a bunch of dynamic language semantics that machine code can't match.
 
@Rapptz Everytime my hands needs to go to the mouse feels like a defeat.
 
user1804599
Definitely not.
 
at least in C++ the actual language rules map fairly well to machine code.
 
user1804599
The problem of generating efficient machine code for JS quickly has been solved.
 
@Puppy The CLR does it. It's pretty fast.
 
user1804599
8:23 PM
See also the program you're using right now.
 
I agree that js is not for desktop
 
user1804599
lol desktop apps
 
user1804599
Command-line interface master race.
 
@райтфолд I'm not using it in any context that requires efficiency.
 
iirc it does not make sense for a C# stuct to have a field that is a ref type. Forgot why and no idea why.
 
user1804599
8:24 PM
@JohanLarsson Why not?
 
user1804599
If you need it then you need it.
 
@JohanLarsson So you don't put strings in your structs?
 
user3010322
So I just took a total and complete crapshot and hoped it worked.
 
@EtiennedeMartel There's a large difference between compiling dynamic orgasm from source to efficient machine code, and compiling strongly-typed pre-compiled bytecode to efficient machine code.
 
> Forgot why and no idea why.
 
user1804599
8:24 PM
It makes sense especially when the referee is immutable.
 
user1804599
Because that works well with the copy semantics of structs.
 
of course it will be immutable
 
user3010322
The guys name is Chuck Walbourn, his blog's URL is chuckw, chances are his e-mail is chuckw@microsoft.com too, so.
 
also the CLR is not particularly efficient.
 
user1804599
JS isn't Atom's bottleneck.
 
8:25 PM
my co-worker had a nasty problem a few days ago where it turned out that it was too stupid to inline some tiny lambdas.
 
user1804599
It's the retarded use of HTML and CSS.
 
The biggest issue with Atom isn't JS.
yeah
 
@EtiennedeMartel I don't write stucts that often, Most times thay just hold a bunch of numbers.'
 
It's the HTML and CSS shit.
Really dumb as hell.
 
@райтфолд ty ty
 
8:26 PM
5 mins ago, by Puppy
yes, I appreciate your irrelevant anecdote, it makes a big difference to my logic.
 
@райтфолд I bet you don't even use a DE
 
user1804599
You can write a fast-enough editor in way less optimised languages like say Vim script or Emacs Lisp.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Well, in this case, it's strictly relevant (and you only had an anecdote/opinion to begin with)
 
user1804599
If you don't fuck up the UI by being a retarded HTML fanboy, the bottleneck will be the user.
 
@Puppy What I'm saying is that it's all anecdote and opinion.
 
user1804599
8:27 PM
@Pris The best IDE is Z shell, Vim, coreutils, ack, Perl, AWK and your language implementation of choice.
 
The CLR works perfectly well for the cases I'm using it for (namely, GUI desktop applications that run on PCs with i7s and 16 GBs of RAM).
 
@райтфолд and awfully inefficient plugins ;)
 
I've seen talks by the architects of V8 and they do not compile JS to native code except in some fairly strict circumstances and only when it's being very heavily exercised.
 
@ThePhD What about him? :o
 
that's not an opinion, that's the guys who wrote the implementation stating a fact.
although you could argue that my recollection of it could be flawed, which indeed it could be.
 
user1804599
8:29 PM
V8 decides to inline based on AST size :lol: which includes comments :lol:.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Time to revoke your big boy card.
 
@Rapptz Noooooo :(
 
@EtiennedeMartel Well, it works well enough for us in most cases. But the guy did not specify any particular qualifier for "efficient", he merely stated "efficient".
 
@Puppy The most commonly accepted definition is "fast enough for the users", I think.
So it always depends on your domain.
 
user1804599
"Efficient" typically means "efficient enough for Mysticial."
 
user1804599
8:30 PM
My definition of it means "fast enough" which everything is almost always.
 
@райтфолд Your code is very fast because it never runs.
 
well, if you argue that it's efficient without stating a domain, I would usually read that as claiming competitive efficiency in all domains.
 
user1804599
@thecoshman disgusting
 
user1804599
 
8:31 PM
or at least most of them
 
@Puppy Which is the same problem as premature optimization.
You can usually disregard those claims of efficiency without context as bullshit and move on.
 
dismissing them as bullshit is exactly what I was doing :P
 
@Puppy he he he
@EtiennedeMartel it's more efficient that way
 
Smooth.
 
unfortunatley
as per usual, people can write slow code in any language and domain.
next week I'm gonna have to do a bunch of awkward manual DOM iteration shit because the range library we were using is super slow if you have a remotely large DOM.
 
8:33 PM
for (;;) {} is very fast and very slow at the same time
 
So, wait, you're doing Web stuff?
 
@EtiennedeMartel He must be from "the regions" shudders
 
I'm working on a feature that is a service, and one of the frontends is embedded in a web application
 
@Puppy Is SAX parsing an option? It's more fun than DOM.
Maybe you should secretly use grep.
 
not really an option
 
8:36 PM
My company uses xml for config file. They managed to come up with something like this:
 
My office desk stopped adjusting downwards today, had to stand up and type with my keyboard in nipple height.
Hurt my session, went home after 12 h.
 
<config>
  <interface>...</interface>
  <interface>...</interface>
  <number_of_interfaces>2</number_of_interfaces>
</config>
 
@Puppy but as @BartekBanachewicz would say, that's because those languages are fucking terrible how dare they allow people faulter!
 
lol, the effort: 'i don't know what to do, i'am try 10 minutes to fix it, but nothing'
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/29019598/i-am-have-error-with-fopen-and-other
 
@StackedCrooked Shoulda used JSON.
 
8:37 PM
WHY is there <number_of_interfaces>?
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked Because it was designed by an idiot.
 
@Rapptz I don't think it's xml that is the problem...
 
@райтфолд It's a defining example of the codebase.
 
user1804599
The code base is probably terrible.
 
Of course the parts I wrote are very nice.
 
user1804599
8:38 PM
No, they are the worst.
 
But the rest sucks.
 
@StackedCrooked welcome to enterprise software where everything is a much greatness as the sentence that precedes the one the follows this one!
 
user3010322
@Nican DirectX person, I asked him to show me where to find the full HLSL specification.
 
hmm... decision time... do I stop drinking now and have a normal shit Friday... or carry on and have a shit Friday with a headache to kick it off...
should probably stop now... can already feel it's not going to be a happy drunk time :\
 
user3010322
I need to write a Cover Letter. :/
 
user3010322
8:41 PM
I'm really terrible at writing Cover Letters.
 
what is a cover letter?
 
^ covering
learn to spell you fucking inbred
WTF WHO CHANGED GROOVE SHARK
 
user1804599
> @RequestMapping("/greeting")
 
user1804599
Meh, routes in controllers.
 
@ThePhD everyone is
 
user3010322
8:45 PM
@Borgleader Welcome home!~
 
user3010322
Also, halp me write one. ;~;
 
@ThePhD Home? I'm about to leave work :P
 
user1804599
Meh, too much magic.
 
user1804599
It's like RoR.
 
user1804599
> Because Jackson 2 is on the classpath, Spring’s MappingJackson2HttpMessageConverter is automatically chosen to convert the Greeting instance to JSON.
 
user1804599
8:46 PM
So terrible.
 
user3010322
@Borgleader Oh. Uh, well, almost welcome home!
 
@ThePhD itll take me 2h to get there
 
user3010322
@Borgleader Uhh... Sort've almost kinda good luck getting home?
 
user3010322
Also, JAVA EXAM IN 45 MINUTES \o/
 
@thecoshman its better now, no more flash
 
8:48 PM
@Pris you can get rid of flash without making it shit
 
ehhh... considering how bad most site redesigns are these days I'm actually kinda impressed its not complete garbage
 
If my class has an explicit constructor then is it ok to implement operator< as a member function?
 
did I post a link to the new Qt forums?
 
what's that metal band... like 'buzzrum'
 
Check out this trash forum.qt.io
 
8:50 PM
@thecoshman Holy shit no more flash. It's amazing.
 
I kinda like the forums itself but god damn that page is awful
 
@Rapptz but at what cost!
 
It looks nicer too.
Overall a great change.
10/10.
 
fuck everything, anothe beer it is!
hopefully I'll forget I have spirits :|
 
@thecoshman And there's the plan, in a nutshell, (well in the Plough, actually).
 
The mobile site improved too. I didn't know that was possible.
 
@Rapptz never really used the mobile site
when I wanted to, I was mobile, and thus never really had good enough signal for it
 
@Rapptz dammit I thought you were talking about SO chat for a moment
 
I wonder if there's a bunch of grumpy cynics out there I can complain about website redesigns to/with
"Take your node react web 2.0 shit and get the hell off my lawn!"
 
@Pris I'm a buch
 
8:54 PM
Usually redesigns are meh or bad but this one is actually good.
 
What the fuck... FF underlines "internet" as misspelled?
 
user1804599
@Mysticial You should capitalise it.
 
@Mysticial Depends on dictionary
 
@Mysticial You're missing the ™
 
8:55 PM
@райтфолд The Internet is an internet
 
If I wasn't a cynic I'd be posting on IETF mailing list about designing email replacement
 
so depends what if you mean the only real example, or the theoretical concept
@CatPlusPlus ... email?
 
Nobody cares, it's the same thing
@thecoshman Email is shit and needs to die
 
@CatPlusPlus vOv what's special aobut that?
 
@thecoshman Use your favorite search engine to search for "email needs to die", find a lot of articles ;)
 
8:57 PM
Not a very good metric.
 
@jPlatte spoiler: evrything is shit and needs to die
 
If you search for "X needs to die" for any X you'll find a lot of articles
Email is really really really bad though
 
Okay I'll try "Stack Overflow needs to die" ^^
 
snack overflow
 
oh I could eat something.... but what
 
8:58 PM
HTTP2 happened, Vulkan happened
Maybe a new email could happen
 
Actually I don't find an article with that name
 
@CatPlusPlus shit is still shit though
 
there are so many "SO sucks" articles out there
look harder m8
 
I know its bad practice to use tabs for indenting code, but do you guys really hit the space bar 4 times?
 
Something similar though, at least judging by the title: michael.richter.name/blogs/…
 
8:59 PM
@AhmedDaou of course not
what sort of moron would do that?
 
@AhmedDaou no one does this
 
so how you do it
 
@AhmedDaou lolno
 
use a non shit editor that will insert for spaces for you when you hit tab
 
Use a real editor
 
8:59 PM
> You dumbass. You thought you needed media queries to be responsive, but no. Responsive means that it responds to whatever motherfucking screensize it's viewed on. This site doesn't care if you're on an iMac or a motherfucking Tamagotchi.
 

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