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12:00 AM
> Some more gifsicle features
> - ...
> - a dumb name
 
You can use Qt BoxLayout and add an equal number of widgets as the divisor. Then resize to value of numerator. The length of the subwidgets will be the result of the divison.
 
@StackedCrooked wut
:)
 
Just trying to help :)
in case of doubt it's just a joke
 
@StackedCrooked Warning: requires 4 gigapixel monitor to maintain 32-bit precision.
Puny 4K monitors need not apply!
 
@JerryCoffin I need 128/64-bit division. So 4 gigapixels is not enough.
 
12:06 AM
@JerryCoffin No worries, I use a VM where I render it off-screen.
 
If you built a monitor with 2^128 pixels at feature size of planck's constant, I'm not sure the speed of light will be fast enough to get the division done in 20 nanoseconds which would be about the speed of a current processor.
 
@Mysticial Does Java support a 4 GP monitor? I think it would cap out at 2GP because arrays are indexed by unsigned ints.
 
Good question.
 
@Mysticial Yup--fortunately, a ferroelectric LCDs have high enough pixel density that you only need one with a 107 light-year diagonal to get full 128-bit results.
 
12:08 AM
@sehe Cool.
It seems to require very careful and precise actions.
 
Minor problem: largest FeLCD built to date is about one inch diagonal.
 
Should I reinvite the static class guy here to seriously explain why his shitty design is shitty
 
@Rapptz I admit multi cursor is more cool
 
I like that macros allow me to use very simple moves.
 
@StackedCrooked Not so sure. I fuck up all the time. (And I don't lose too much time doing it)
 
12:09 AM
@Mysticial I missed the earlier discussion, if you divide a lot it might be worth to compute inverses and multiply
 
@StackedCrooked Mmm the primary reason for me to shun them is that it's too darn easy to use something that doesn't quite do what you expect on the repeats
 
@sehe They're very useful.
 
@orlp That only applies if you're reusing the same divisor. In any case, computing inverses is trickier for integer divisions.
 
@sehe Yeah. If one of those lines happens to have a space before comma then suddenly it all collapses (and macro either causes havoc or is aborted by Vim).
 
Though still possible.
 
12:11 AM
if you divide a lot, use a division table
 
if you divide a lot, you could become small
 
@chmod711telkitty For the 128/64-bit division, that takes slightly more memory than has yet been fabricated on planet earth.
 
@Mysticial I guess divq is fastest?
@JerryCoffin depends, if the set of inputs is small and constant you can craft a perfect hash function on the inputs and get a small lookup table.
 
@sehe if you divide a lot, you could reproduce.
 
@StackedCrooked Then your movements aren't precise enough :p
 
12:13 AM
@orlp If you haven't precomputed anything, then yes, the assembly div instruction will be the fastest in the general case.
 
A double lookup table is quite big.
 
Then I change my moves. Or use multiple passes.
 
I use smooth moves
 
@JerryCoffin a couple of hashes, a couple of lookups, add the results up by shift them to the right digits, a lot quick than doing it the simple way, if the numbers you are divding is really long
 
My macros always end with j^.
 
12:15 AM
@sehe .. and still don't score.
 
@StackedCrooked Mine usually end with n
 
@sehe lol
 
@Mysticial My expertise with crypto often can't help you as often in crypto rather than implementing the math in smart ways, you design the math in smart ways such that the implementation is fast.
 
@MartinJames Hmm? Sure thing. I don't reproduce, but that doesn't exclude much
 
@Mysticial e.g. using the same divisor multiple times
 
12:16 AM
@sehe Sometimes, mine do too.
 
@sehe Is that like std::forward?
 
@orlp precisely, like hashes
 
@orlp Sure--but it needs a minute set of inputs and almost incredibly fast perfect hashing to stand a chance of running as fast as a simple div.
 
@LucDanton no. More like smooth_cast<T&&>(v)
 
@LucDanton std::back_and_forth.
Don't you know how to dance?!
 
@JerryCoffin actually, it's pretty lenient, you have 36-79 cycles to be faster than divq.
A 128/64 bit divide is slow.
(and that's on haswell)
 
@orlp I wouldn't be doing a 128/64-bit divide if I wasn't actually dividing a 128-bit by a 64-bit integer to get a 64-bit quotient.
 
@orlp Yes, but a read from main memory is tremendously slower. You have to be certain essentially every result comes from cache to even stand a chance of keeping up.
 
And if both operands fit in 64-bits, no assembly is needed. It can be done in plain C.
 
@JerryCoffin of course
 
12:29 AM
@JerryCoffin I believe Intel's implementation of their division hardware starts with some fat lookup table that utilizes some of that spare real estate they have.
But of course that "fat lookup table" is still on the chip.
 
Error of the day is Error 7 error C1085: Cannot write compiler generated file: '': No space left on device
 
god I really need a holiday
 
> Efficient WebGL stroking
Hey @Bartek now you can stroke yourself with WebGL
 
@Mysticial At least for floating point division, I'd guess they still use the SRT division algorithm, which certainly uses a lookup table. It's pretty well proven than they did in the Pentium anyway (in fact, it was something like half a dozen entries missing from that lookup table that led to the notorious fdiv bug in the Pentium). If memory serves, at that time they used a radix-4 division routine. Not sure if that's increased since.
Radix 8 (for example) would increase performance by a factor of ~2, but at the expense of roughly quadrupling the chip area needed (for the dividers).
 
12:43 AM
Who needs divisions anyway? Last I checked they are not web scale
 
They can scale with nosql.
 
@ParkYoung-Bae Get your filthy division hands of my cloud application.
 
user3010322
YAY COOKING
 
At least the last time I looked, AMD used a completely different division algorithm that was basically closer to what many of us do as an optimization--basically multiply by the reciprocal to get an answer. In this case, however, they estimate a reciprocal, then refine it until the answer's "good enough". Lets AMD maintain roughly the same overall speed for fdivs, even with only half as many execution units.
 
links to the algo in question if I'm not mistaken
 
1:00 AM
 
user3010322
@melak47 That's kind of mean of them.
 
@JerryCoffin They're doing radix 1024 in Broadwell. At least that's what I read about.
 
Never forget.
 
user3010322
@StackedCrooked Link 2 video.
 
1:02 AM
@StackedCrooked YERR A PIRATE STL
 
Arrrrggggghh, matey.
 
does anyone have or knows anyone that has a lobste.rs account?
 
What's that anyways?
I like.
Pancakes soaked in syrup.
 
@orlp No--it's not Newton-Raphson. If memory serves it's Goldschmidt or something similar. Although you can do division with Newton-Raphson iteration, I don't think it can keep up with other methods. I've done testing with implementation of sqrt, and it definitely can't keep up for that.
 
@JerryCoffin Just because Newton-Raphson doesn't work as well for one function does not mean it won't for other functions.
 
1:09 AM
@Mysticial god knows they have the area... I had assumed they'd be nice and give us larger caches... but I guess not
 
^ Nice overview.
 
TIL I'm an expert
 
experts exchange
 
Hey hey hey guys, I have a small binary flag issue. Any idea where it'd be the most appropriate to ask help about that? Or maybe you guys can help me figuring out
 
@Mgetz The limit in manufacturing isn't in the area, but the power consumption. If you filled up every bit of area with active transistors, you'd cause a nuclear meltdown. So what they have now is a lot of area, but they can only use a small portion of it at any time. That's basically a recipe for specialization - which is what we're seeing now with AES, SHA, and all this SIMD that hardly anyone outside of HPC will ever use.
 
1:12 AM
why is for (auto el : exp) bad?
 
@orlp I realize that--but I'm pretty sure if it could keep up, somebody would use it (and at least as of the last time I looked, every processor I could find information about used either SRT or some version of the Goldschmidt one. Admittedly, that's not anything like conclusive evidence, but it's hardly like Newton-Raphson is unknown, so if it worked out well, it seems likely somebody would use it.
 
I got my binary flags, for instance 5 (so 101 in binary) and I'm looking for the way to extract the flag individually. Is it possible without having to loop over it? Google didn't help me. Thx in advance!
 
@JeromeJ flag & mask ? lookup binary & and |
 
@Mysticial I can see servers using it... but I think their algorithms are behind the time
 
@orlp copies
 
1:13 AM
I also think they could do a lot more for basic unicode processing
 
@ParkYoung-Bae Looking for a way to get 4 and 1 back, not actually testing a certain mask. But thx.
 
@ParkYoung-Bae what if I want copies?
 
@orlp It creates unneeded copies. And it is generic. I suppose that's a combination to avoid.
 
Like, 6 would return 4 and 2 instead, looking for a list. Thanks a lot in advance again!
 
@StackedCrooked I don't understand what you mean with generic in this case
 
1:14 AM
But TBH, I don't see why would be bad.
 
Like, I would mark it rare
sometimes you do want copies
 
@JeromeJ That's fairly trivial, shift the number by 1 bit to the right in a loop.
 
so why is it marked bad?
 
@orlp If the type of the container changes then the copy might no longer be acceptible.
 
@StackedCrooked same goes for auto x = expr
 
1:15 AM
Copying elements when iterating is kinda weird
 
@ThePhD Didn't finish 'em yet. I left work not long after dling the pdf. Seems good so far.
 
Not sure if that's a really strong point though.
@orlp But that's good!
 
Thanks guys! Have fun, stay safe, have a good day etc!
 
@StackedCrooked yet it copies and is generic, which according to you is something you'd want to avoid
 
imgur.com/gallery/P9P9XN9 this one be funny
> But rationally debating an issue is EXACTLY WHAT THE TERRORISTS WANT!!!
 
1:16 AM
if for (auto el : expr) is bad by that logic, then so is auto x = expr
 
But it's not iteration.
 
@orlp Keep in mind that this is from a set of slides trying to "sell" the idea of the simplified syntax to the committee (and public). Some hyperbole about the problems of the existing syntax is to be expected.
 
@ParkYoung-Bae only
 
dear lord, I never realized operator comma can trigger unwanted adl
 
comma operator is an abomination
not sure what bjarne was smoking
 
1:18 AM
expression templates (that didn't exist)
 
and fuck off with your spirit sehe
pre-emptively :D
 
thank you
Also, comma operator is not Bjarne's invention
 
@orlp The backward compatibility pipe. The real question is why Dennis included it.
 
operator comma is has great potential danger, but it's not a common problem. (at least not in my experience)
 
I wonder if it looked like fortran
 
1:19 AM
@JeromeJ example
 
because it's rarely overloaded
 
@Mikhail Fortran had nothing similar.
 
@StackedCrooked only if it's used, right?
 
I suppose.
 
the comma operator is great
 
1:20 AM
IIRC I actually never overloaded comma. Not even for experimentation.
 
it's like including a loaded gun in your language, and saying it's perfectly safe as long as you don't touch the gun
 
The coma operator not so much
 
@orlp except when you can make the gun shoot marshmallows
 
Where in a project tree to put submodules aaaa
 
deps
 
1:21 AM
@orlp oh well. I suppose now I know what to say next time when you come wanking with completely fabricated problems on how to solve a particular non problem in 1 character less. In the wrong way :)
 
@Rapptz derps
 
@Rapptz vaguely reminding me of svn:externals
 
Do you guys miss a package manager in C++?
 
sometimes
 
@Jefffrey is water wet
 
1:23 AM
@Jefffrey Not really.
 
@StackedCrooked Why not?
 
I've never had one.
 
@StackedCrooked I have for experimentation--did something like Boost Assignment, long before they did (though clearly more awful than Boost Assignment, which is saying something).
 
@Jefffrey If we had wealth a good packages, maybe
 
I miss a package manager because it would imply having packages/modules
 
1:23 AM
lol
 
and I would love to have packages/modules
 
I guess I don't know what I'm missing.
 
@ParkYoung-Bae Thanks for the code buddy!
 
most things already mention their dependencies
or include them
I don't have much of an issue
all I do is clone then make
 
@JeromeJ See, it's trivial
 
1:26 AM
@ParkYoung-Bae Actually, I come from Python. :D So this all thing (C++) is "complicated" to my eyes, so I'm glad you shared that code with me, I love learning new things/trying to understand them by real life use cases! yeay!
 
I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I consider a package manager to be essential for any programming language.
 
@Jefffrey it's obviously not. GPSL is fine without one.
 
@JeromeJ Python? My condolences
 
But I can see how it's not an issue for expert programmers, though.
 
trick question guys
if you took infinitely many rightfolds on infinitely many computers and let them develop for an infinite amount of time, would they ever finish a project?
 
1:27 AM
@orlp probabilistically, no.
but to be fair, when's a project ever "finished"?
 
@ParkYoung-Bae Damn, Python is awesome! I'm digging for speed in coding rather than speed in my program (even though you can make Python pretty fast if you wish so, but it gets complicated I guess)
 
@Jefffrey People are trying to make one.
 
@Blob when it is done
 
@Rapptz Oh yeah?
 
@JeromeJ I will not enter this discussion minefield
 
1:28 AM
I'm more a high level programming guy but I'm fascinated by about everything in programming (expect PHP :D )
 
@orlp there's something to add, something to improve.
 
@ParkYoung-Bae Agree.
 
C++ is not low level
 
@Jefffrey Yeah. Look at, e.g. biicode.
I don't like biicode.
 
HOMOPHOBE
 
1:29 AM
You could add this to the Lounge project list.
 
More than Python, amiright? (I'm no troll or such, k? no worries)
 
"C++ Package Manager"
 
I vaguely remember seeing unconventional overloading of operator[]. Where it was called with a tag parameter.
 
@Rapptz "C++ Package Manager that Doesn't Suck"
 
@Rapptz Seems nice, what's wrong with it?
 
1:30 AM
@Jefffrey Seems lame.
It uses CMake.
And I have to use their CLI tool to make projects.
I don't know if that's changed but yeah.
I'll pass.
I'm not that desperate for a package manager.
 
I'll just leave that the higher programming level a language is, the more you can 'freely' focus on the algorithm directly. Which, we will all agree, comes at a cost too. So it's all up to our choices, preferences and the prices we are willing to pay. On this, I'm now off. Wish you all a good day! (UGT)
 
@sehe :(
 
@JeromeJ byebye
 
@sehe my english skills are not sufficient to recognize if you're joking or offended or something else
 
@orlp I'll translate: you suck, your "fuck off" was offensive and sehe hates you
 
1:34 AM
@Rapptz Oh yeah, it seems so.
 
@orlp I laughed :)
 
Do you people use VS because it allows to make C++ compilation model less painful?
 
No
I use it because I like its debugger
End
 
I don't use VS
 
What do you use?
 
1:36 AM
Sublime Text obv
 
I use apt-get on Linux or Homebrew/MacPorts on Mac for getting my C++ dependencies. It works pretty good.
 
vim
 
no vim? ~_~ (1 split second too slow)
 
@ParkYoung-Bae Better example (IMO). :-)
 
@StackedCrooked on windows you cry
 
1:37 AM
@JerryCoffin SRP violation! (and the result is not correct :p)
 
On Windows I try.
 
@Rapptz And Makefile? :P
 
@JerryCoffin result is wrong, should be 1 and 4, not 0 and 2
 
I've used Windows for a long time. Back then I insisted on including all dependencies of a project in its svn repository in order to have a self-contained build.
But I have become lazy.
 
@orlp Well actually it is, he's giving the bit position instead of components though
 
1:39 AM
@Jefffrey ninja.
 
@orlp You start counting from 1? What's wrong with you?
 
@JerryCoffin he asked for the components, not the log of the components
 
@orlp So I answered the question he should have asked instead of the one he did ask. :-)
 
1:48 AM
@Rapptz Right. I've heard about that one.
 
pretty great
10/10 would use
I like using python as my meta build system
 
> Coliru is a gay name, I always thought it
 
lol
 
Feedback page.
> I'd have sex with a lambda
 
Slowpoke
 
1:51 AM
@orlp nice
 
> Can you install libc++abi so that we can compile and link against libc++? Otherwise we run into: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/8dfc51483035b21e
Poor guy.
All you have to do is add -lsupc++
> How to switch between g++/clang?
> how to change compiler?
> cin>>a; won't work
RIP
you could use a dropdown though.
like cppreference does
 
Is there an API btw?
 
JSON PUT/POST
 
Dropdowns would not work well in combination with a command line.
 
Neat, where may I find the docs
 
1:54 AM
@StackedCrooked No a dropdown that changes the text of the command line for common compilers/stdlib.
 
Blocked at work. Added to favs so I can check that later, thanks!
 
Meh. Dropdowns are gay.
 
lol
it'd be helpful
you should make your feedback page an HTML table with your response on another column
:p
 

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