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8:00 AM
At least when I attempt to (and learning stuff on the way), I often end up with a "no time for that shit" comment or something
 
@Rerito IME it's not the code it self that lacks the attention, it's the automated testing
 
@sehe you can easily make it up to the internet by streaming a markdown parser in nom.
 
@thecoshman Yes, we do have that problem as well :)
 
everything will be forgotten
 
And in the end the time that wasn't allowed to dev proper tests is lost doing manual menial testing
My manager tries to push it everytime to upper management... "No no shipping shipping! Deadlines deadlines"
 
8:02 AM
@JohanLarsson I'll wait while the caucus bikesheds on the flavour of markdown (and the legal implications)
 
user1804599
@parametricity, Parametrikistan
Theorems for Free!
55 tweets, 1.2k followers, following 1 users
 
user1804599
This account is really cool.
 
@JohanLarsson I'll go with this then
 
the search by signature thing in hoogle is great
you think of something you'd like to have and come up with an approximate signature then search for it
great
 
Does boost::spirit sound like a good idea to parse certificates' DN?
 
8:06 AM
Depends. I think so, likely. I don't know how outlandish the grammar specification is
 
I don't know either, I'm still at a "documenting" step on the subject
 
@AlexM. yea
 
@sehe wtf at legal bs
 
@JohanLarsson it’s more social than legal
 
murkdwon
 
8:10 AM
You clearly have UB. You don't check the error status of the stream, either. Finally GDB can't "complain about the object not being copyable" - the code already compiled. This is not Ruby code — sehe 2 mins ago
@CatPlusPlus Is that a pun on the guy's name? Slander!
 
@bryanedds
Code monkey, software heretic, irredeemable nihilist.
2.1k tweets, 202 followers, following 80 users
I found @Cat has a secret twitter account :P
 
He's on top of the game
Imperative programming allowed us to make messes. Objects allowed us to pkg up and share them. Agile allowed us to duct tape it all together
 
he used to be a reg in the F# channel
 
user1804599
 
I used to never watch videos online. Current status:
I need more monitors
 
8:20 AM
@elyse only on 4chan
 
@elyse That is awesome. ahahahah
 
@sehe I do that
 
How can you know that a -> a return its argument instead of returning a new instance of the same type
 
user1804599
Because there is no way to construct a new a.
 
user1804599
You don't know what function to call that constructs a value of type a for any type a.
 
8:21 AM
@GregorMcGregor because reaons
 
@elyse Activator.CreateInstance
 
user1804599
Because there is no such a function.
 
checkm8
 
#fapfapfap
 
@ScottW Why would he stop at night
 
8:23 AM
@GregorMcGregor In what language
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Happy 30th C++!!! :) [c++] [c++11] [c++14] [c++-faq] [happy-birthday]
 
user1804599
Hence a function of type a -> a must either never return (which this Twitter account doesn't consider since it's silly) or return its argument.
 
@ScottW lol
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus Any one featuring parametricity.
 
@ScottW there's something you don't know about your pancakes
 
Xeo
8:25 AM
@GregorMcGregor If the signature is really just f :: a -> a, it has no other information to do anything
 
@elyse topkek
 
get your eyes checked

there's clearly a dash in the middle
 
@CatPlusPlus any
 
Well it depends on how well the language hides internal fuckery
 
user1804599
Some moronic languages, such as C#, allow you to inspect these types. Then you could use default(a).
 
8:27 AM
@GregorMcGregor I have Ensure.Singleton(this) for that purpose :)
 
@ScottW your fault
 
user1804599
unsafePerformIO is like undefined: ignored.
 
user1804599
unsafeCoerce idem.
 
8:31 AM
lol
 
user1804599
Also not part of Haskell, but a library feature.
 
user1804599
Haskell report doesn't mention it.
 
user1804599
It's a hack.
 
Who cares
 
Ell
@ElimGarak lol
 
user1804599
8:32 AM
People who want to reason about programs (i.e. not you).
 
Ell
this quack is a hack
 
People who want to reason about programs can't ignore things like that
 
user1804599
Ignoring them is the only way to do it, since they prevent you from doing it.
 
user1804599
8:34 AM
If you want to types to guide you, you must not use functions that don't obey their types.
 
If you wish hard enough you can bend reality to your expectations
 
user1804599
lost all credibility at "GroenLinks"
also lol
 
I wish it weren’t so.
 
What didn't work? Where is the failing testcase? What did you try? — sehe 28 secs ago
 
If you just ignore all the things that make the thing you're trying to do impractical
 
8:37 AM
lol parsing C++ with regex
 
so... what' the general feeling regarding the core guidelines?
 
user1804599
@thecoshman Many of them are good.
 
@AnalPhabet oh you looked at the regex. I just looked for some features that may or not be present
 
guys
 
@elyse as thinking more the general idea... too little too late?
 
8:40 AM
my program crashes before entering main(). where do I start?
 
Ell
@Mr.kbok static verbibols?
 
@sehe I looked that a regex was there
 
user1804599
How the fuck do you insert a backtick in code in a Stack Overflow post?
 
Run under debugger?
 
8:41 AM
@elyse `
 
@Ell yeah, good idea.
 
user1804599
Oh, double backtick.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 
backslash backtick
 
user1804599
8:41 AM
no, wait
 
user1804599
what the fuck
 
user1804599
@AnalPhabet on Stack Overflow not on chat
 
user1804599
Oh you have to double the starting and ending backticks.
 
user1804599
I wish Haskell just rejected programs containing tabs instead of treating them like 8 spaces.
 
@AnalPhabet that's a lie (you couldn't have concluded what it seems to parse)
 
8:46 AM
@sehe I read the question title
And that's not exclusive
 
It says nothing about parsing c++
 
@Mr.kbok static constructor failing
 
@Mr.kbok What's funny?
 
user1804599
hello one
 
8:48 AM
hello one
 
haha, i just got myself the first github account
 
guys
it's litb
litbhub
 
litbub
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb wtf - the first was already taken when I first heard about GH
 
8:49 AM
@Abyx Nice.
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb I'm missing your "guys".
 
@sehe haha nice troll
 
@Griwes Sounds kinky.
 
1 min ago, by Gregor McGregor
guys
just for you
 
8:49 AM
@Mr.kbok before main, obviously. Start with statics, library init and runtime linking
 
@Griwes man, I'm missing your money
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb it's ok, it was just your German showing
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes The assumption that I didn't try it, also the behaviour of visual studio in those situations
Or, more like the lack of assumption that I tried it
 
> your
You are not litb.
 
8:52 AM
ITT litb is a Cicada character
 
Ell
@JohannesSchaub-litb hi
 
@Griwes bold claim
 
Fortune favors the bold. And sometimes, the bald.
 
Oh. You think I have magic information? I get it from the same documentation. I started livestreaming my answers (experiment) just so that people (like you!) can see how I go about finding the information and how many times I fail and have to fix compiler errors. How I read them and think about it (mostly out loud). Perhaps that helps you get more patience and embrace C++ for what it is. — sehe 12 secs ago
 
sehe you should start a strip show
 
8:54 AM
@ThePhD ^_^
 
where you strip off debugging symbols from a binary, ofc.
 
Reading questions loud is one of the best parts
 
@GregorMcGregor you've missed it
 
Good morning loungers :D
 
@GregorMcGregor oooh kinky, never done that online
 
8:54 AM
And lurkers.
 
hi @Morwenn
 
Good mornenn, again!
 
@ElimGarak Again?
 
Well, mornenn was introduced by someone before. But clicking on the transcript requires effort.
 
8:56 AM
@JohanLarsson Ugh. I deleted yesterday's Off-The-Wall (non-boost) sessions for that exact reason, I think. I don't like my self doing that.
I mean, those thoughts are really "on-the-fly" evaluations of what I see. I don't disagree, but it does show a "private mental process" that hopefully doesn't match my usual communication :)
 
Oh, just like Monking in the 2nd Monitor.
 
So, you're welcome to sit in live but I don't keep all of it for posterity :)
I do keep it when I think the stream shows interesting answers. At least, then I can forgive myself because it's balanced by constructiveness
 
Oh, I won't
 
starrable
 
user1804599
8:57 AM
> A Divisible contravariant functor is a monoid object in the category of presheaves from Hask to Hask, equipped with Day convolution mapping the cartesian product of the source to the Cartesian product of the target.
 
except that the "sehe" part wouldn't be visible on the starboard :(
 
@AndyProwl avoidable
 
We should actually do a compilation of "most ranty moments" in my stream
 
most ranty moms
@JohanLarsson lol you got scared
 
Hmmm. Back in the day, that would show the previous message, right? Or just on deleted messages
 
8:58 AM
I think I may have learned a small fraction of c++ by watching.
 
voyeur
 
Still very convinced it should be avoided at all cost.
 
user1804599
A divisible contravariant functor is just a monoid object in the category of presheaves from Hask to Hask, equipped with Day convolution mapping the Cartesian product of the source to the Cartesian product of the target; what's the problem?
 
dafuq is a presheave
presheaf?
 
a member of hask
 
user1804599
9:00 AM
In category theory, a branch of mathematics, a presheaf on a category is a functor . If is the poset of open sets in a topological space, interpreted as a category, then one recovers the usual notion of presheaf on a topological space. A morphism of presheaves is defined to be a natural transformation of functors. This makes the collection of all presheaves into a category, and is an example of a functor category. It is often written as . A functor into is sometimes called a profunctor. A presheaf that is naturally isomorphic to the contravariant hom-functor Hom(–,A) for some object A of C is...
 
I'm out
 
first dot is separate from previous word
second sentence starts as unparsable
 
user1804599
@AndyProwl No, it isn't.
 
> is a functor .
 
user1804599
9:01 AM
There's LaTeX math there, but Stack Exchange Chat sucks.
 
aha
 
user1804599
 
now it makes more sense
 
Ell
@elyse just use chatjax
$$x=\frac{y}{z}$$
 
# Contributing
1. AT THE VERY LEAST READ THE FUCKING USER GUIDE FOR FUCK'S SAKE
1. fork the repo
1. create your feature branch (`git checkout -b my-feature`)
1. commit your changes (`git commit -m 'Add a feature'`)
1. push to the branch (`git push origin my-feature`)
1. create a new Pull Request that targets the devel branch
 
Ell
9:02 AM
beautiful
 
Instructions for nonius.
Whatcha think?
 
1.
 
1. should be BOLD
 
@Mr.kbok Morkdown lists
 
Okay
 
Ell
9:03 AM
1. It's very forward
1. I like the numbering system
1. all in all I like it
 
To me, it means your patience is incomplete. Or you have a complex that makes you feel bad for asking. Whichever it is, it's not very constructive. It is how it is. Why did I spend the time learning this? Because I know I can be more productive when I need it. Also, I learn how to learn. I've learnt more about learning on Stack Overflow than about any boost library. — sehe 1 min ago
ENOPATIENCE
 
user1804599
I want a rookworst.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes too angry
 
@elyse I have one
 
user1804599
Me too, ASAP.
 
9:04 AM
@AndyProwl I know :(
 
@sehe ENOKITAKE
 
It's just really annoying to close PRs and issues as RTFM all the time.
 
"PLEASE READ THE USER GUIDE" or "please read the user guide" should be enough IMO
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ask Ulrich Drepper for professional advice
 
Ell
I wonder what teabagging first became a thing in FPSs
 
9:05 AM
like, you stress that it's important but without being aggressive
 
@GregorMcGregor ESHROOMS
 
Xeo
1. RTFM
 
@AndyProwl that
 
user1804599
contramap is cool.
 
contraceptive is also p cool
 
@JohanLarsson Osmosis. I think I'm getting worse though, maybe stackoverflow.com/a/33121200/85371
contraband, my favourite container
@Abyx What else is new.
 
@sehe well it is new. because this ratio is changing and some years ago it was smaller
 
Usually statistics aren't nearly that reliable that we can reliably derive the trend. But I'm too lazy to fact check that. It sounds like the same old deal. And I think I've seen considerably worse ratios (e.g. for US)
 
> <No output: generated assembly was too large (532854 > 500000 bytes)>
sigh
@Abyx Published in may or sth
 
loooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
Is that VS?
 
9:18 AM
in Discussion between Aurus Huang and sehe, 1 min ago, by Aurus Huang
I'm now really frustrated in the ocean of Boost. I thought I could use it as a tool, but now I need to study it as a system.
I can feel wisdom burgeoning. It's spring early this year
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes gcc.godbolt.org with clang 3.6+ :(
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I’m not fond of spoonfeeding. Don’t have advice.
 
Ell
@GregorMcGregor lol
why 500000
that's so arbitrary
 
because fuck you
 
@GregorMcGregor Fork and run locally. I did, it's really simple
 
9:20 AM
that's why
 
@Ell Er, it has to be arbitrary. The limit is "when it is too big".
 
Your mom is the limit
 
As such it's the opposite of arbitrary. It's always the same, and very predictable
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes remove bold & fuck, just annoying imo. 1. Read the user guide. Also consider bullets if every point is 1.
 
Ell
I would just imagine it'd be some 2^n - 1
 
9:22 AM
@sehe That's not the opposite in any way.
 
@Ell you need to tell me when and where you want to meet on Friday eve?
 
@Ell That is also arbitrary.
 
Ell
@TonyTheLion Oh yes
 
I know :)
There's a slight paradox though
 
Ell
@LucDanton I guess
 
user1804599
9:22 AM
@sehe you also have to configure it.
 
@JohanLarsson It's a Markdown list. It renders with proper sequence numbers.
 
user1804599
With inconsistent configuration parameter names.
 
@elyse We know, right :)
 
Ell
I would just think that they'd want it to be as big as possible but still fitting into an int
 
@sehe neat, never thought of that
 
9:23 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes ok but never bold fuck
 
@Ell How relevant is an int? I suppose the point is to limit disk and bandwidth usage.
 
Ell
I'm not sure really. Let me think for a min
 
500000 might be excessively conservative, but there's nothing that makes powers of two better for such a limit.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Joke’s on them we can add comments and immediately ask for a recompile.
 
wow gcc is pretty good at inlining
 
9:25 AM
lol
 
Ugh the shot throwing continues
 
@ScottW limit exceeded
 
it's inlining all my lambdas even with captures! neat
 
@GregorMcGregor 500k for an assembly?
 
In this session around the 1:02 mark
 
9:26 AM
@Mr.kbok that's clang
 
I haven't for a second thought that list-specific functions are a good idea
 
@Mr.kbok How about templates and not optimizing
 
@sehe who's the hottie on the bottom right
 
Why would anyone think that
 
@sehe -Ofast :w
 
9:26 AM
@GregorMcGregor I dunno. I have never noticed her
/ picks up reading loupe
@GregorMcGregor why not? It's only necessary to keep them if the reference to the lambda escapes the scope
 
@sehe Well I never know what to expect or not (example)
 
Ell
:3
 
Optimized Away, Hayao Clangzaki's new masterpiece.
 
I really should look to upgrade my stuff to C++14... may I'll wait till C++17 is done
 
> ID3v2.4 (introduced in 2000, but as of Windows 8 still not supported by MediaPlayer).
 
9:35 AM
Google web UIs are so fucking bad
 
@thecoshman wait till C++2030, It'll have modules and look like Python
 
@TonyTheLion what 2030 does that come out in? 102030?
 
Should concept subsumption be structural or nominal? I mean, should a concept C requiring bar() subsume another concept D requiring bar() and foo(), and therefore allow stuff like D d = ...; C& c = d;, or should the latter only be legal if there's an explicit 'inheritance-like' relationship such as D : C in D's definition?
 
Hmm, I like BitBucket's UI better than GitHub's these days.
 
Sep 17 at 16:29, by Tony The Lion
I'd rather clean toilets than deal with web-anything
@thecoshman C++30
 
9:37 AM
Fuck Material and everything related to it
Goddamn animation-heavy content-less eye candy bullshit
Fuck you Google
3
 
GitHub still has that silly shove-the-files-in-your-face project home page.
 
Bring back Geocities
 
@AndyProwl Implied would be better, I'd say, but I can see arguments for both approaches.
 
@CatPlusPlus yep
 
@Griwes Yeah. I'm inclined towards implied but eh I'm not sure about the consequences
 
9:38 AM
It takes like 15 seconds for GApps console to become responsive
 
like IIRC iterator and input iterator have similar syntactic requirements but semantically the sumbsumption shouldn't be implied
 
@AndyProwl I prefer nominal.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I find it too "dry" :w and I get lost in it somehow. Possibly habit.
 
Scrolling GCompute pages makes Firefox lag
 
+ would, once again, be the poster child.
 
9:39 AM
hmm
 
@CatPlusPlus finally someone reasonable
 
@GregorMcGregor I like that project home pages give prominence to the README and not the files.
 
so... foo(std::vector<T> stuff); that 'takes a copy' right, which is ~generally~ bad for large data, but you can use std::move to get around that, if you don't want to touch the original any more. Is that first set of assertions correct? Now, from one of those cppcon vids, I think I picked up that if you call a function and never use the things you passed to that function, the compiler can effectively do it via move rather than copy... is that true?
 
I wonder if it makes sense to allow the user to choose
 
@CatPlusPlus go set it up!
 
9:40 AM
also no idea what's Concepts TS's approach
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes, that's good. But the page hierarchy seems messy IMO.
 
wish I could play with it. @Stacked any plan to upgrade to latest Clang on coliru?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes
 
@AndyProwl Already available to gold users
 
9:41 AM
:(
 
@GregorMcGregor You mean I'm not gold? :(
 
I tried.
 
that hurts
 
@AndyProwl You don't have a coliru gold account?
 
@AndyProwl I think that Sutton said something about "going through logic on paper to make sure it works", which I think it implies implicit "inheritance".
 
9:41 AM
@GregorMcGregor StackedCrooked should do it
 
@Mr.kbok Setup symbols
 
@GregorMcGregor I'm afraid not. I'm bronze or something
 
Also check for the bullshit frame pointer optimisation
 
lol inb4 kbok debugging in release mode
 
@Griwes btw I've heard Sutton's implementation of concepts has a few "funny" quirks
for instance:
template<typename T>
concept bool C = requires(T&& x)
{
    { foo(x) } -> void; // foo expected to take rvalue!
}
should be foo(move(x))
actually I hope this is an issue of implementation and not of specification
 
9:44 AM
Forwarding references and stuff.
 
aaah
I misread take rvalue as take lvalue. Sorry.
 
no prob
 
burn the griwes
 
Laine told me it's meant to work like that, I hope he was confused
 
burn the gregors
 
9:45 AM
let's see if I can find out how it's supposed to work from the paper
 
@GregorMcGregor be prepared to be burned twice
@AndyProwl Was he also agreeing that this is the correct semantics?
 
@Griwes He dodged that part. I told him this is wrong IMO and his answer was "oh but I tried it on Sutton's implementation and that's how it works"
 
Alright. :D
 
wasn't that just 5 years ago http://goo.gl/QNt8Ap
Also, not a trivial example. Very little to do with inlining, the way I see it
 
which sounded a bit like 'I don't care how it's meant to work', but I didn't want to sound unpleasant or what so I just left it there
I was interested in other bits of the discussion
he might have just meant it as "I blindly trust Sutton is doing the right thing"
 
9:48 AM
Loop unrolling maybe
 
@sehe Not inlining, strength reduction.
 
That's the term I didn't find
 
@fredoverflow they (media etc) asked Bjarne a while ago to come up with a date, and he picked the 1.0 release.
 
in Discussion between Aurus Huang and sehe, 47 secs ago, by Aurus Huang
I found this thing in one of the three examples you gave me, in the initial answer.
I have lousy memory
 
@Cubbi Happy Bjarneday to you C++, happy Bjarneday to youuuu!
8/10 good pun
 
9:52 AM
jeezus gdb is still makeing
 
Correct me if I'm wrong. If I use semantic versioning, it makes no sense to keep different docs for different patch versions.
 
These days, I feel that my life is made of coffee, sorting algorithms and duvet burritos.
 
You can be blamed for all but the burritos
 
@Morwenn The burrito is you? :P
 
What a life. No pizza
 
Xeo
9:54 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes AFAIK, patch is only for non-api/abi-breaking bugfixes, right? in that case, no.
 
(I haven't had pizza for at least a month rip me)
 
Xeo
@AndyProwl better fix that
 
I should
 
got to get to work now, ttyl
 
9:55 AM
my Lounger badge might be withdrawn
 
@Borgleader Yeah, I just forgot a word. Usual style :p
 
Xeo
depizzation is a serious health risk
better stay pizzated
 
better run to school
 
this game looks really pretty
 

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