« first day (1279 days earlier)      last day (3669 days later) » 

user1804599
10:00 AM
@BartekBanachewicz link
 
what article are you on about?
 
@ScarletAmaranth @rightfold this one
 
what I'd like to see is more people learning Haskell
 
user1804599
Not yet.
 
what do you mean?
 
user1804599
10:04 AM
Mess needs to be cleaned up first.
 
user1804599
As in the libraries et al.
 
you mean like fmap, map and liftM?
 
user1804599
Among other things.
 
I was told that we are stuck with that because changing it would be = to create another language
 
user1804599
And lots of duplication and inconsistency.
 
10:06 AM
@Jefffrey not really
 
I can't asking questions or provide answers on meta - I am afraid of getting banned
 
Haskell'14 will probably improve some things
 
user1804599
(.) from Prelude and Category come to mind.
 
and IMHO the real problem are not those, because they are trivially fixable if you know how
the real problem are libraries, which nowadays amounts to GUI, graphics and web
 
user1804599
The fact that Prelude.filter and Set.filter both exist rather than being part of a type class.
 
10:07 AM
all 3 of them are sucky in haskell
 
user1804599
sum working only on lists.
 
user1804599
Unless you use Data.Foldable.sum!
 
Reactive-banana is a joke, LambdaCube is the only thing for graphics and it's in the "research" phase, and web... actually web is turning out ok
so funny enough I see the most potential in Haste, Fay and possibly Elm right now
 
user1804599
No clear naming conventions; HTML vs Html.
 
where is @scottw, have not seen the doggy for ages ...
 
10:09 AM
Yeah, Haskell definitely needs to be polished
 
user1804599
And very important, Cabal being shit.
 
uh. right.
@Jefffrey but the important thing is that it's worth polishing.
 
Monad actually restricted to Applicative
 
user1804599
That's already being fixed.
 
@Jefffrey will be most certainly in '14
Haskell isn't perfect, but it has immense potential
 
10:10 AM
I can't find much about Haskell '14, where do you get all the features from?
 
pony tales.
 
I wish Scotty wan't in the "experimental" phase
 
what's that?
 
Scotty + Blaze + <insert database driver here> isn't a bad stack
@BartekBanachewicz web framework
it sucks badly right now
it doesn't even have support for cookies, wtf
The author doesn't give me any hope either. After 3 months he still have to accept that patch about them cookies.
And he considered it an "extra" feature.
 
@Jefffrey OIC. Well there's Snap and Yesod for that.
 
10:18 AM
Snap looks nice, but I still have much to learn on Haskell, before using it.
 
@Jefffrey That's why we should get as many people as possible to learn and write haskell code and furtherly libraries
Haskell needs more manpower.
 
yup
 
everything needs more manpower.
 
Wide doesn't.
 
it most assuredly does.
 
10:19 AM
Nor Java.
 
It will suck anyway, because it's an imperative language.
 
and Haskell already has a reputation for overly annoying advocates
 
ha ha
 
@Jefffrey Good JS developers look promising. If Haste can already compile code that can be run from JS, it might be enough to show them: look, you can have all that typesafe logic written in Haskell, used on your page.
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz Mhe, Yesod.
 
user1804599
10:20 AM
Happstack ftw.
 
@rightfold You never even tried that. You just like it because it's not mainstream.
 
@Jefffrey So, someone that doesn't understand the domain he's dealing with?
 
user1804599
What?
 
@Jefffrey hehe
 
user1804599
I have used Happstack many times.
 
10:21 AM
....3.
> For example, I've personally interviewed graduates who can't answer "Write a loop that counts from 1 to 10"
Uh seriously.
 
Also, "write a loop" is not a question, so there is no way to answer it ;)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't know much either, but my view is: if you are writing a web framework, everything that is an helper over HTTP headers, should be "basic", not extra. That includes caching as well.
 
Xeo
... my local bakery is confusing me
 
lol, earned second yearling badge on meta.SO
I'll keep you all updated
 
Xeo
10:26 AM
I got my usual mozzarella-ham baguette, and instead of the usual 3.45eur, it was only 2.55eur
 
The waiterperson is in love with you.
 
^ or he/she was scamming you before
 
Xeo
different waiters / waitress most of the time
 
@Xeo maybe you got a discount
 
Well, only this one gave you a lower price.
 
10:28 AM
I got a random 30% discount at my local music store when I was buying cables recently
maybe because I got into an hour-long talk with the guy who works there
 
I love random discounts
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz I think she just used a different way to calculate the price. Usually, they modify the ham-baguette price by adding mozzarella. This time, the individual stuff was summed up (baguette, ham, mozzarella).
 
> We don't need more STL garbage to write parallel code. If you want to convert C++ into a YAPTL (yet another pizza-topper's language) do the decent thing and call it something else. It may be good for selling books and self-promotion tours but C++ is fast becoming totally useless as an everyday language that gets the job done quickly and accurately with the minimum of fuss.
 
I got huge discounts on my drum kit back in the days, just because I conversed with the sales person a lot and we shared lots of interests
 
> It should not be a perpetual relearning exercise based on the whims and fancies of the sloppy and untidy who inhabit the ivory towers of academia. There is no need for any of this crud. Returning to writing OOP in pure C, you guys are getting way out of hand.
@TonyTheLion lol
 
10:29 AM
@Xeo oho
 
@TonyTheLion See, love.
 
@TonyTheLion going to music stores with cash in hand also helps, from what I heard.
 
@TonyTheLion What interests besides drumming? :)
 
@Xeo Definitely love.
(Protip: don't take love advice from a robot)
 
10:30 AM
@FredOverflow lol what a fucktard
 
@FredOverflow wtf
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz But it got me seriously thinking about the huge discrepancy in the price. I think the highest I paid yet was 4.35eur
 
> C++ is fast becoming totally useless as an everyday language that gets the job done quickly and accurately with the minimum of fuss.
lol
 
@FredOverflow ' Returning to writing OOP in pure C' - wow, I bet that is rewarding, (if not actually impossible).
 
fucking fucktards
 
10:31 AM
@FredOverflow Can't really remember, been a long time. But I do remember talking an awful lot to this guy
 
he was probably one of the guys that fought against having templates
 
> No I am not joking. I have been using C++ since the year dot and C before that when it was still Lattice before Microsoft's came along. Of late it has migrated into a useless pattern driven monstrosity that has left the tenets of decent programming far behind. You are welcome to it. Going back to C as stated.
> You can keep your pizza-topper abstraction with its template driven cascade errors and 'type safety' in the minds eye only, boost and all the rest. Good luck with that! In a few years time it'll all be as redundent as ATL and MFC and you'll be starting all over again with some new paradigm from hell. Keep It Simple Stupid.
 
@MartinJames Sounds like a suicide mission to me
@FredOverflow trolls be trollin'
 
Xeo
So, I just got this junk mail:
> Subject: Hi there <name>
However, rebuilding work was still incomplete, and the line did not reopen to passengers until 16 April 1980. Bunyip's first genuine supermarket was opened in June 2007. At last due recognition was at hand.
wtf
 
10:33 AM
@FredOverflow Why do people insist on building complex software with C, then?
 
@TonyTheLion yeah - one of those 'Mission Impossible' tasks that you should refuse to take.
 
@Xeo Where they trying to sell you something?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Because C is "simple", according to some definition of "simple".
 
But even accepting that, why build complex software?
 
Xeo
@FredOverflow No, just that text.
Nothing more
 
10:34 AM
3 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
fucking fucktards
 
You can keep it simple all you want with C. But do keep it simple. Don't write my SSL implementation.
 
also
2 hours ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
just use fucking functional programming already
FFP
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes LOL! My heart bleeds for the poor 'going back to C' dev.
 
ITR: Haskell advocacy earns it's reputation for being fucking annoying.
 
Bartek, listen. I love you and I like functional programming, but you have to understand that not everything is better with it. There's time for imperative and there's time for functional.
inb4 there's time for me to shut the fuck up
 
10:36 AM
Just say, use the appropriate thing for the job at hand.
If you need a hammer, use one, if you need a drill, then use that
All the rest is irrelevant
 
There's liking and there's fanboying.
 
@Jefffrey along the lines of that.
 
:c
 
people write for loops every day
do you understand that?
 
@BartekBanachewicz I'm one of those
 
10:38 AM
for loop is worse than goto
 
for exists in haskell too, and has a very similar semantic
for_ too
 
I'm getting "C2580: multiple versions of a defaulted special member functions are not allowed".
 
I am talking specifically about numerical for loop
 
eh
 
10:38 AM
Docs say it's "redefinition of class name 'identifier'".
 
foreach is ok
 
for loops are pretty much irrelevant one way or the other.
 
they are harmful
 
If Puppy says its irrelevant, then its irrelevant :P
 
they're not particularly harmful at all.
 
10:39 AM
guess how you can print the first 10 numbers in Haskell? for_ [1..10] $ print
 
@BartekBanachewicz You really lost it all, huh?
@Jefffrey Ew.
 
@Jefffrey mapM_ (putStrLn . show) [1..10]
 
Barket is doing is "a bartek"
 
Xeo
I feel responsible for the way Bartek is now...
 
mapM print
 
10:40 AM
or yeah print
 
right
 
I just found the best link ever!
 
@Jefffrey still, it's a foreach
 
@FredOverflow \o/
 
also it's not idiomatic and no one really does that
 
10:41 AM
@BartekBanachewicz then use range-for loops
 
It's better if you alter it so that it shows mine rather than yours.
 
if you are talking about C++
 
I am talking about processing data in general
prefer map (+1) data over foreach(valueRef in data) valueRef += 1
 
yes, for can be considered low level
 
I strongly feel that the former is clearer, shorter and expresses the intent better
and it really goes on and on until we get to
2 hours ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
just use fucking functional programming already
 
10:43 AM
nah
 
sure, shout at me for beying a fanboy, w/e
 
we're just going back to the same problem as before.
 
We get it, you drank the FP coolaid (?)
 
you should use the right tool for the job.
numerical for loops have uses.
 
@DeadMG my point being the choice of "right" is often wrong
 
Xeo
10:44 AM
@DeadMG weeeell
 
@DeadMG and they have (terribly, ostensibly common) misuses
 
the fact that they can be misused is irrelevant.
every tool in the programmer's toolbox can be misused.
 
@BartekBanachewicz wright?
 
Ruby just does 5.times <block>.
 
10:44 AM
@DeadMG the fact that they are commonly misused is relevant
 
@DeadMG anything that does not adhere to this rule, is fanboying
 
no, it's utterly irrelevant.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Haskell can do that too if you're evil! :D
 
it is irrelevant to me when I choose to write a numerical for loop that someone else commonly misuses them.
their misuse of numerical for in some other codebase is meaningless.
 
@DeadMG you are doing that because somebody told you to
 
10:45 AM
@Xeo Num for functions is evil!
 
Xeo
As I said
 
I write numerical for loops all the GODDAMN time and no one has died yet, so WHO THE HELL CARES???!!!
 
@TonyTheLion s/numerical for loops/fucking terrible code/ ?
also people die because of bad code FYI
 
ส็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็༼ ຈل͜ຈ༽ส้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้
 
@TonyTheLion I wonder if the designers of the Therac-25 thought the same.
 
10:46 AM
ahahahahah
 
Don't write bad code.
dunno why the fuck this has to be stated
 
The point being that this is a terrible conversation
 
Xeo
btw, FWIW, whenever I need an index-loop in C++ (which isn't very common), I do for(auto i : boost::counting_range(0, max)), so it's still a for-each
 
I'm enjoying it enough.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I'm doing it because I made a decision that it's the right choice.
 
10:47 AM
lol
 
@TonyTheLion it's not, it shows how often people tend to forget that you're supposed to learn and develop and not just settle on status quo
 
anyone who's ever tried to tell me what to do can appreciate that it's pretty hard to accomplish.
 
By fanboying you effectively turning your brain off.
Let the brain choose what's better. Not the heart.
 
@Jefffrey except in love
 
But what about love?
Fuck you, Fred.
4
 
10:48 AM
ha! first
 
lol
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes speaking of love...
 
@BartekBanachewicz I am learning, I'm learning that I can't be arsed with FP constructs when I can simply bash out a simple for loop.
 
@FredOverflow That's why people fuck their life up when they are in love.
 
please how to store by copy ? — user3544324 6 mins ago
 
10:49 AM
@Jefffrey I don't have any particular hateful feelings about the programming construct itself if that's what you mean
 
@TonyTheLion Then you're terrible.
This kind is the worst.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I love you too Bartek
 
@Xeo Why not for (size_t i = 0; i < max; i++) ?
 
@TonyTheLion Don't worry Tony, I love you too.
 
10:50 AM
People who supposingly "can" code, but they just stuck with some experience and stop learning.
Fucking harmful to the whole industry, world and humanity.
 
I hope Bartek doesn't turn into a terrorist.
 
I agree
 
I actually agree with Bartek on that.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit makes you write i three times, for one
 
a pity that you're doing the exact same thing, realistically.
 
10:51 AM
But I'm afraid of feeding his ego.
 
The problem is that programmers not in this Lounge don't always find FP constructs easy to understand
 
nobody said programming is easy
except dumbfucks at code.org
 
and that's why a simple for loop, which any programmer can figure out, is sometimes better
 
Meh, bollocks.
 
10:51 AM
@TonyTheLion They are terribly hard at the beginning. Like everything you are trying to learn.
 
@TonyTheLion there's nothing inherently easier about a for loop (especially numerical) than a map
 
Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit because I've fucked up the loop increment often enough :)
 
@BartekBanachewicz I call bullshit
 
@Xeo Don't write nested loops.
 
@BartekBanachewicz you have to know what map does before you'll know that it is supposed to be a for loop in dsiguise
 
10:52 AM
FP constructs require a lot more support, both in terms of code and concepts, than the normal iterative versions.
 
Just put it on the record, that I'm calling it.
 
and in the simpler cases, the cost of that support simply doesn't pay itself off.
 
@TonyTheLion It's not a loop god damn it.
 
@DeadMG Meh, bollocks.
 
Stop saying loop.
it's not looping anything
 
10:53 AM
I could tell you right now that my coworker would have no idea what map is for
 
I always use 'containerIndex' instead of 'i'. It makes the code look more impressive and it justifies using copy/paste so that nobody can say I typed the index three times:)
 
it's modifying a collection.
@TonyTheLion so what?
People are taught imperative programming and that's my fucking point
 
@BartekBanachewicz Don't get all pissy on me
 
@TonyTheLion I could tell you that my classmates taking their first programming class had, but didn't know about for.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Great.
 
10:53 AM
@TonyTheLion use the term "mapping", you will make bartek happy :P
 
@Jefffrey lol
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Only because you're so increadibly accustomed to iterative looping
 
I have to make Bartek happy?
lol
 
nah
just look at the C++ Standard Library.
 
What you're saying @tony is that "people are taught that and used to it so that's how the world looks". And I am trying to tell you that we have better ways already, so that means nothing.
 
10:54 AM
@TonyTheLion Yes. Have a banana.
 
the fact that they fucked up ranges doesn't screw me over at all in terms of a numerical for loop.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes hahah
 
@Xeo shrug Ok. I've never done that. If you're a poor enough programmer to need this trick, though, then fair enough. :)
 
but it sure as hell does when I want to employ a map.
 
@DeadMG I'd say it effectively discourages numerical for loops
 
10:55 AM
that's because when you use map then somebody had to write map and deal with ranges and all that stuff.
 
@TonyTheLion I'm serious. The first programming class in my university degree is functional programming. It works.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit oh god
 
ITT "pirst programming"
 
@BartekBanachewicz yea, and I get your point.
 
preferably not you, the user, but you know, somebody did.
 
10:55 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Yes, my child? I'm here. Do you require assistance?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I was going to go with '"pist programming", but the edit was fairly quick.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit you're just too Perfectâ„¢ for me.
 
but because I get your point, doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to go out and change all my for thingies (whatever @Bartek) to map constructs
 
neither I am suggesting that.
 
Good.
 
10:56 AM
@BartekBanachewicz \o/
 
Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit vOv simple typo
 
I am suggesting thinking about that when writing new code or reengineering old.
 
Xeo
not that I write much / any C++ these days...
 
I thought about it, and my conclusion is, I don't know that C# has map
 
@Xeo Okay fine I admit I've messed up some nested container iterations. it2/end2 sucks rather.
 
10:57 AM
@TonyTheLion LINQ's Select.
 
@TonyTheLion hint: it's called Select
 
I don't write much C++ anyways these days
 
@Xeo watcha writing these days?
 
Xeo
AS3 :<
 
I write a fuckton of C++ these days. I love it.
 
10:57 AM
lol
 
@BartekBanachewicz oh that, well I do that, but not always
 
Xeo
And I'm not really writing any code at home either
 
hint 2: if you have too much processing code to be put in select clause, use Ctrl-Alt-M
 
5 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@Xeo Don't write nested loops.
Called it.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit NO YOU'RE NOT PERFECT MY WORLD HAS SHATTERED
 
10:58 AM
@Jefffrey derp. obviously they are (slowly) reprocessing all the badge triggers
 
OK, I'm going to do some SQL now. No flowers by request. Donations to McMillan homes.
 
I know :)
 
I get confused on Select clauses
I can do simple ones
 

« first day (1279 days earlier)      last day (3669 days later) »