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7:02 PM
hi
 
@Jefffrey Yes I was watching live.
 
hi
 
user3010322
Hi
 
so everyone's ready for tomorrow's jam?
 
no
 
7:04 PM
good. I'm totally not either
 
user3010322
There's a game jam tomorrow? o.o;
 
not even sure if I'm gonna participate.
 
user3010322
Oh
 
user3010322
Well looks like there is.
 
> The 3rd Great Lounge Game Jam will take place on the weekend of March 15-16, 2014.
 
user3010322
7:04 PM
Too bad I still can't participate with the rules, so.
 
I will only be able to do something on saturday night though
perhaps sunday morning a bit
 
Xeo
I'm not available this weekend :/
 
user3010322
Why not all of Sunday? D:
 
Girlfriend
 
Xeo
@ThePhD no, you can't participate because you are stubborn :p
 
user3010322
7:06 PM
Tell her to help you do art for the whole thing!
 
@ThePhD It is all of Sunday.
@ThePhD No one forbade you from taking part.
 
@ThePhD Man, you haven't played Shit have you
 
user3010322
@AndyProwl Not quite yet. :D
 
Yeah
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes No, nobody did forbid me. But with the rules I can't use what I have, so. u.u;
 
7:07 PM
that's like the less artistic stuff ever
 
ah
 
I finished my input thing yesterday
 
@ThePhD ... so you could stop playing the victim.
 
be a man and just roll it from scratch like everyone else
 
felt pretty good
 
user3010322
7:07 PM
I'll just have to rough'n'tumble and try to get the rules to allow libraries of any kind, even those not publicly available.
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm not playing the victim. I stated a fact: I can't participate with what I have under the current rules.
 
Come on, I can't believe you can't code anything without your pet library
I mean, who cares if it's not good
 
user3010322
If the sentence formatted in: I won't play because of the current rules, does that make it less victim-y for you?
 
It's just for fun
 
@ThePhD Why are you trying to participate with what you have?
You missed the whole point of a game jam.
 
7:08 PM
participating with what you have is basically against the whole point of the jam.
 
@ThePhD It totally is. It makes it about you, not about the rules.
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes For me, the rules are the problem. So saying "the rules are a pile of shit" sounds perfectly right to me.
 
Full disclaimer: I voted for anything on that one question.
 
1 min ago, by Etienne de Martel
You missed the whole point of a game jam.
 
7:10 PM
the current rules are different so you could technically use Unity
 
@ThePhD If you don't want rules, simply do not partake and instead make a game on your own.
 
user3010322
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Which is exactly what I did last time, exactly what I'm doing this time. That doesn't mean I want to keep doing it until the end of time. I'm going to complain about the rules, just like when I find shit in VC++ I file bugs and complain about it.
 
@ThePhD Why are you ignoring meeeeee
 
@ThePhD The difference is that VC++ purports to help you do a certain thing, so when that paradigm breaks down, by all means file a bug. The issue in this scenario is instead rather like buying VC++ then complaining that it doesn't help you to write PHP. It's like.. just fuck off about it already. <3
@EtiennedeMartel Everybody ignores the Quebecois
 
7:13 PM
@ThePhD But what's bad about the rules? What kind of libraries would you want to use that the rules forbid?
 
Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit
I'll be late for dinner.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Sounds like the official Canadian government stance.
 
It's bad because there won't be any food left.
 
@EtiennedeMartel That was the... never mind.
 
user3010322
7:14 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Just drink some oil.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit (You intended it as a joke, I was serious)
 
ooh good idea I have some olives in the fridge
@EtiennedeMartel I intended it as a joke based on [what you perceive to be] reality
 
I have so much nothing in the fridge
I'm going to order a pizza
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit What I'm saying is that it's not a joke. It's really what's happening.
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: loungecpp.net [c++] [c++11] [c++1y] [c++-faq]
 
7:16 PM
Ah, self-determination. Have you tried calling Russia?
 
user3010322
@EtiennedeMartel I don't buy that explanation. If I choose to participate in something, it's because I like the idea and I want to do something with it. My game isn't going to charity, we're not raising money, we're making little games for everyone to play. The Game Jam has no mission statement, and as far as I can read on that page there's no politics either. Everyone talks about "the point" of the jam, but there is no point to the jam but to what its participants give it.
 
You're not a participant.
 
yes, and we, the participants collectively, have decided what the point is.
 
user3010322
No, right now I'm not.
 
7:16 PM
why do we do this everytime
 
user3010322
Still going to complain until I can be. :D
 
@ThePhD I like how apparently everyone else gets the point.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit (To be fair, you don't need Quebec at all to get a majority government, so you might as well just ignore their usually asinine demands and hope that doesn't give more arguments to the separatist side)
 
@Rapptz Are you new here or something?
 
I really burned mah mouf :(
 
7:17 PM
@EtiennedeMartel now you lost me
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit It's a clusterfuck.
 
@EtiennedeMartel it's not that bad
separatists are not taken seriously predominantly because of all this nonsense whiny rhetoric
 
IT2T: whining.
 
if you're going to declare independence, just fucking get on and do it already
 
Shoot some people.
 
7:18 PM
otherwise stfu
unless you're not a separatist but want Canadian Quebec to be treated better; in that case, I'm with you bro
 
I'm actually not sure what independence from Canada buys you
 
user3010322
^ That.
 
about the same as a Canadian dollar
ie not much
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I don't take them seriously because they spend all their time whining and don't have realistic plans for what they'd do afterwards.
 
the Scottish independence movement is similarly large on emotion and short on practicality
 
7:20 PM
see, Scottish currency for most obvious example.
 
user3010322
I mean, you separate so you get to regulate all your own healthcare and set up your own government with representatives more in-tune with Quebec politics.
 
@DeadMG pretty much what I said
@DeadMG what "Scottish currency"?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Interestingly, the federalist side is also going all "separatists want to destroy Canada!"
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I believe that's the point
 
@DeadMG quite :)
 
7:20 PM
So I'm guessing we're just a bunch of emotional bitches here.
 
I was hoping you thought RBS banknotes were a different currency, so I could take the piss out of you for the next half hour
or that "pounds sterling" originated in Sterling
@EtiennedeMartel shrug I'm fine
unless you mean "here" as in Canada, in which case yes you are
 
doesn't Canada officially recognise Quebecois or whatever
I'm trying to remember what I read a while ago
 
What's Quebecois?
 
French is an official language, if that's what you mean
 
@Rapptz No. That's why the Meech Lake Accord failed.
 
7:22 PM
oh this line
In 2006, the House of Commons of Canada passed a symbolic motion recognizing the "Québécois as a nation within a united Canada."[12][13]
 
@Rapptz Yeah, that's when the Conservatives wanted to win votes in Quebec.
The other provinces don't give a shit.
 
So Quebec is a bunch of easy votes?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Actually, we're known for being quite backstab happy.
 
Oh, making friends, heh?
 
cant onebox svg... fail
 
7:24 PM
It's a clusterfuck.
 
great US term that
clusterfuck
in the UK we call that a gang bang
 
(in Wales they call it "Saturday night")
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Hahahaha
 
7:25 PM
@Etienne does that mean you were assimilated?
 
user1804599
Oh fun programme on TV.
 
why does Stephen Harper need 166 seats? Obesity epidemic, much?
 
@EtiennedeMartel What exactly is the point of this image?
That Canada voted for Stephen Harper?
 
Blue and orange are complementary colours.
 
@Rapptz See the teal stuff in the legend?
 
7:26 PM
Yeah?
You have 4 of them in Quebec, congrats
 
@Rapptz Do you notice anything strange about the party's name?
 
@Rapptz That QC did not
@EtiennedeMartel It's named after a band?
 
@EtiennedeMartel I see what it is and who it is but I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to make of it
 
@Rapptz heh and 0 elsewhere
 
@Rapptz So. The Bloc Québécois only has candidates in Quebec.
 
7:27 PM
@Rapptz Recall it was Borgleader what posted it
 
That people from not-Quebec don't vote for parties whose primary agenda only relates to Quebec.
 
@EtiennedeMartel and not many to begin with
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Actually, they can't.
 
Interesting.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Revolutionary really
 
7:28 PM
so to speak
 
tbh the true wtf of this image is that Stephen Harper actually has this many seats
 
@Rapptz So. Traditionally, most of Quebec voted for BQ. But in the last elections, they all switched to the NDP, a federalist social democrat party led by a charismatic mustache wearing figure.
 
@Rapptz Well the previous election, in 2009, they had 49 seats not 4
 
@EtiennedeMartel Friend of mine had genuinely never heard of it until I brought it up a few weeks ago. Age 29.
Then again, she misses out on all sorts of obvious things. PhD in Computer Science. Missing facts.
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel I almost read that as NPD and was about to cry out
 
7:29 PM
@Xeo NPD is the French acronym.
 
@EtiennedeMartel not all of them
 
@Xeo In French its Nouveau Parti Démocratique (NPD)
 
Xeo
The NPD is also a nazi party in Germany :|
 
Nazi Party Deutschland?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit The conservative districts are all located around Quebec City, which is definitely more right-leaning than the rest of the province.
 
7:31 PM
I mean, c'mon, how can anything be abbreviated to three characters in German? It could only be one character. Just, N.
 
National Democratic Party
The National Democratic Party of Germany (, NPD), is a far-right political party in Germany. It was founded in 1964 as successor to the German Reich Party (, DRP). Party statements also self-identify the party as Germany's "only significant patriotic force". On 1 January 2011, the far-right German People's Union () merged with the NPD and the party name of the National Democratic Party of Germany was extended by the addition of "The People's Union". The party is usually described as a neo-Nazi organization, and has been referred to as "the most significant neo-Nazi party to emerge af...
 
"doing an error" Great debugging and problem reporting work there honcho — Lightness Races in Orbit 5 secs ago
@Rapptz interesting that the onebox strips out the alternative naming
 
@Rapptz Ah, racism.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit it strips everything in the {{lang}} template
I don't really know why
might be laziness
 
user3010322
Shiny, it works.
 
user3010322
7:33 PM
And I'm learning this wiki markdown stuff.
 
@Rapptz hard to call it laziness when the template is rendered before it's served
the onebox must go out of its way to take it out
 
I often find that the more the parties are named after the people, the less they are for the people.
 
UNLESS the oneboxing doesn't scrape HTML from the main site.
which is more likely
oops
@DeadMG yeah That's subjective. These people don't think they're wrong. They think they are helping [some] people. Who are you or me to say they're wrong?
 
it probably uses mw:API
 
7:36 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Other people?
 
user3010322
@MartinJames If you still have time and you want to participate with your own libraries, feel free to with me ♡.
 
You can expand templates with MW API
 
No, knowing their track record, it's some shitty regex-based home-brewed parser
 
What track record?
 
user3010322
7:41 PM
@AndyProwl To answer your question, I'm perfectly competent to use some other API. But I'm participating in this for fun. So I'm going to do what I find fun: using my own library, seeing if I can do something cool with it.
 
@ThePhD But you don't need a game jam for that
 
user3010322
The game jam gives me a focus and purpose to do that asides from my other projects. It's the perfect isolated use case.
 
Do we need to have this conversation before every jam
 
user3010322
No, you don't, because I'm not participating, like I already said. <_> I will, of course, continue to say the rules are shitty, and if you want to continue to defend your position on said rules, feel free.
 
7:43 PM
@ThePhD Part of that focus and purpose is to adhere to a set of constraints. You can't have it both ways.
 
user3010322
@LightnessRacesinOrbit The constraint of "use something else" is silly.
 
@ThePhD That's an overly broad observation that holds no weight.
 
I think the "I won't do anything without library X" is a bit of a childish stance
 
Never ceases to amaze me that a room full of "internet experts" could be so fascinatingly trollable.
@Andy: I cba to write new framework code for a game either.
 
Childish? Someone in the Lounge? Nooooo, never!
 
7:45 PM
The difference is that I don't think I should be allowed not to
 
I'm trollable because I'm not an internet expert
 
That makes you an expert at being trolled on the internet. RECURSION ALERT
 
user3010322
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I don't see how.
 
> Don't want occasional updates about Google+ activity and friend suggestions?
I didn't want them in the first place, Google
 
7:47 PM
For a company that can blacklist you in a second because you DARED to violate a little inconsequential anti-spam rule, they sure don't really care about opt-in
 
@ThePhD You want to present it at face value? Fine. (You lose the right to accuse me of strawmanning, here!) If the constraint "use something else" goes away, i.e. you can "use anything you like, ever", then there are no constraints.
 
user3010322
I'm being told that because the library I developed that basically perfectly fits the domain this get-together is on cannot be used, because it's not freely available. I think that's a silly constraint, so I'm not following it and thus participating in my own get-together (or self-together, as it were).
 
@ThePhD For a fun competition between people to create something, then share it? You think that pre-existing work that cannot be shared is applicable? Weird.
You're supposed to turn up and develop a thing, then let everyone see it. Not turn up and say "here's a thing I made some time before, and you can't see it. hyuk hyuk"
 
user3010322
@LightnessRacesinOrbit The end-product is sharable and available. The source code of one of the libraries isn't sharable. There's a big difference there.
 
@ThePhD Well, really, there isn't.
if you built a game on top of Furrovine, then I could not have built that same game in the same time.
 
7:51 PM
@ThePhD This seems to be the core of your misunderstanding.
 
because simple fact is, I don't have any knowledge or experience of Furrovine and there's no way I could possibly obtain it.
 
:cripes:
 
therefore, there's simply no meaningful competition or comparison between the two games.
 
user3010322
You don't need to know the innerworkings of allegro to have a competition against someone using allegro.
 
user3010322
It also doesn't change the quality of the game you put out.
 
user3010322
7:52 PM
Just like it doesn't change if you refuse to use any libraries and just simple standard C++.
 
user3010322
If your argument is fairness of work and comparison, then everybody should be using the same library and everyone should have the exact same preparation and skill level with that library.
 
Sorry to interrupt this very important a argument, but did you all realize there's a Papers, Please mod for Civ 5? :D
 
I'm hungry
 
Shut up about stupid nerd competition rules already tia
 
@jalf Glory to Arstotzka.
@ThePhD So why do you want to use your own tech that badly, then?
 
7:54 PM
@ThePhD Not exactly. Everybody should have the same opportunities to prepare with the same libraries if they choose to.
@ThePhD You do if the other guy does.
 
user1804599
 
AND it uses the Papers, Please theme music!
 
So, it's a ripoff
 
@ThePhD Everyone has the opportunity to have the same skill level with the same libraries. Your stance removes the opportunity.
 
you can't compare "I used library X" to "I developed library X and you couldn't possibly match my skill with this library even if you tried".
 
7:55 PM
It's like installing democracy in a country then leaving it with only one party.
(Yours)
 
especially when you're dealing with a library explicitly designed to be used by exactly one person with, for example, one coding style.
 
@DeadMG depends on what you're trying to measure/compete on exactly. You can compete "I made a game" against "you made a game", regardless of how it was made.
shrug
 
@jalf You could do, the result just wouldn't have much meaning.
 
7:56 PM
@jalf then I might as well submit the game I made over three years as a PhD study
 
at the end of the day, someone lays down some rules, and then you compete within those. But if the rules were different, competition would still be possible
 
what's the point of the 24 hour competition, then?
 
No no no ITS REALLY IMPORTANT for this very important competition on the internet
 
you'd just compete on different parameters
 
@jalf Maybe for some arbitrary competitors with their own Furrovine equivalents, then yes.
but he's the only one who meets those alternative parameters.
 
7:57 PM
right, the parameters would be "submit some software you found or had some involvement in", not "spend 24 hours creating some software"
 
the rest of us don't have closed-source engines to leverage.
 
user3010322
Furrovine Equivalents => Allegro, SDL, SFML, Unity
 
I didn't develop any of those explicitly for myself.
so it's really not equivalent at all.
 
You could have million years of experience with any of those
 
user3010322
All of the things I've named are actually a million times farther than I am, and also completely miss the base point: my capability to develop a game isn't inherently better because I'm the author of {library here}.
 
7:58 PM
SDL is open-source
 
@DeadMG huh, that's a really extremely narrow perspective, but I don't want to get involved. Not when I could be playing Civ :)
 
user3010322
@EtiennedeMartel Because it's what I'm familiar with and what I want to use and fits the problem domain exactly?
 
SFML is open-source
 
Unity isn't
 
Allegro is open-source
yeah, real equivalent
Unity's the only one
 
7:58 PM
And it doesn't matter
Who cares
Jesus christ
 
cat, if you don't care why are you even here?
 
Rule #1 is have fucking fun
 
@ThePhD technically, the problem domain includes "freely available", and your lib apparently doesn't fit that requirement. Thus it doesn't fit the problem domain exactly
 
@ThePhD No, it doesn't. The problem domain excludes that software. The problem domain is the constraints of the jam.
 
@DeadMG (It's a lie, he does care)
 
7:59 PM
The problem domain is not "make a game", but "make a game with freely available tools and code"
 
> fucking fun
^
 
why am I saying this, I don't want to be drawn into this, ignore me please
 
It's a saying
 
never have I agreed with jalf so much
or at all
 
@jalf Oaky doaky.
 
user3010322
8:00 PM
@jalf I'm trying to strip the "with freely available tools and code" part, because that's the part I find silly.
 
Why are you guys debating this again ? =/
 
user3010322
I'll debate it until the constraint is removed!
 
I thought the subject had been fully covered the 5 last time
 
heh
you'll be debating a long time then
 
Because they're fun haters and care about rules more
 
8:00 PM
@ThePhD I'm just pointing out that currently, despite what you want to be true, it is an objective fact that your library does not exactly fit the problem domain, as the problem domain is currently specified.
 
gee gee Jalf.
oh wait, am I supposed to still be ignoring you?
 
@DeadMG depends on whether what I say might incite you to argue with me, I guess :p
 
user3010322
@jalf True enough, but the rules of the further game jams are usually hammered out beforehand in the polls. So I get to keep challenging the rule, over and over again.
 
user3010322
Maybe I will always lose the argument. But maybe one day I'll win. So I'll keep arguing.
 
user3010322
And I'll keep saying that rule is dumb, everytime it gets put in.
 
@ThePhD sure, I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't do that. I'm just saying that the argument you presented before is not actually correct. ;)
 
owww
I really burned mah mouf.
 
@ThePhD If you always lose, then maybe something's wrong with your stance.
 
@DeadMG protip: don't
 
lol
 
user3010322
8:03 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Well then, I can feel just like a Canadian Separatist then.
 
user3010322
Hihihihihi.
 
lol
 
just for that you can submit whatever you want
 
@ThePhD Bad analogy, because in my case I'm right.
2
 
8:04 PM
starring for blatant hypocrisy
 
In other news, why can't I fucking get any context information for this exception?
 
it's like you and the system you're working within don't speak the same language
 
Maybe if I run in Debug...
 
> C++ is C with more stuff. If you don't know how to use the extra stuff, it's not really a problem.
 
Nope. Everything in there is null.
 
@Rapptz BURN HIM
 
I think my favourite thing about the Lounge is that we all hate each other so much
 
Ah, it was a typo.
 
lol
> You can put a C program in a C++11 compiler and it'll compile and behave exactly the same.
 
Bullshit
Easily countered with a VLA or _Generic
 
8:10 PM
@CatPlusPlus Or even a malloc.
 
url required @Rapptz
 
@EtiennedeMartel You think they know C enough to know about implicit conversions from/to void*? :v
 
@CatPlusPlus Hmmm.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I'm on 4chan's amateur game developer general.
 
8:12 PM
@Rapptz why
 
why not
 
Oh god so many idiots
 
@Rapptz then, three comments down
> I had a dream last night where I agreed to suck a guy's dick
sure, take this place seriously dudes
that lot are even more incompetent than Cat and rightfold
AT LIFE
 
I was about to yell at you, but with that qualifier it's true
 
8:15 PM
@Rapptz Why are you on 4chan?
 
Why do you care what I browse?
Likewise, 4chan isn't all like /b/.
 
user1804599
/mlp/ best board.
 
wait what.. you can't link to a specific diff in terms of changed answers?
:-(
alright.. the last revision of this post, is it a sensible way to describe what is in the immediate context of template argument substitution (and with that why the order of template argument substitution is imporant)?
and yes, @DeadMG, I'm still refp under a different nick.. I most certainly know that strangers coming in asking for feedback will be downvoted as the plague itself, and I still love you. cherrios. ;-)
 
I wasn't even looking
 
Risk of Rain was made by a guy on 4chan
I found that out 2 days ago
 
8:23 PM
@DeadMG better safe than sorry
 
user1804599
Man.
 
user1804599
NetHack y u no audio.
 
8:44 PM
I think I appreciate your answer more now than I would have if it was only one of the parts (story, no story). And I like your formatting of the Standard quote :) Maybe it'd have been better to split those two parts in two answers, it's become quite long.. (anyway, removing older comments..) — dyp 2 mins ago
splitting an answer into two because it became "too long", sensible or not?
 
user1804599
Yay.
 
user1804599
I found … a cream pie.
 
hrmm, I'm confused about a section of pseudocode
 
@rightfold You're going to die
 
user1804599
8:56 PM
I already died.
 
Also play Crawl. Crawl is the best
 
user1804599
link pl0x
 
It has webtiles version, so you don't even have to download it :v
 
London Pride on. Feeling a bit pissed already, but mikes got fixed.
 
user1804599
Nice.
 
8:57 PM
I play on crawl.s-z.org
 
user1804599
Oh, tomorrow is the jam.
 
user1804599
Gonna do it multiplayer in Erlang this time.
 
@sehe I figured that C system problem from the other day, dude just wasn't closing his file descriptors so the process didn't know input ended.
 
9:30 PM
Meh..still no band, tech probs, but not with my stuff.
 
Evening
@thecoshman lol
 

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