« first day (1526 days earlier)      last day (3427 days later) » 

9:00 PM
Quadrotors :3
 
hmm
no, I definitely included <memory> and cppreference says that's where make_unique should live.
 
user1804599
Using clang or GCC?
 
whatever make produces, but it's a stdlib issue and not a compiler issue
 
make_unique is c++14 though o.o
maybe thats an issue?
 
I don't see why Wide should fail and Styx should succeed when referencing the same Standard function on the same build agent in a correct way.
 
user1804599
9:01 PM
@Puppy maybe clang and GCC default to different standard library implementations.
 
possibly
 
hi
 
user1804599
Try adding CXX=clang++ to the front of the command.
 
so what, just, CXX=clang++ make blah blah?
 
user1804599
Yeah, perhaps to premake4 instead of make.
 
9:04 PM
@Rapptz sup
 
nah I don't think premake gives a shit, it's make
well, let's try that, anyway, adding it in front of make had little effect
 
user1804599
premake generates the Makefile with presumably the compiler in it.
 
pretty sure that the Makefile just references CXX.
 
user1804599
I.e. the makefile will contain g++ not $CXX.
 
but that also had no effect, which is odd.
did you specify libc++ for Clang?
 
user1804599
9:08 PM
No.
 
user1804599
I don't think so.
 
user1804599
> /usr/bin/clang++ -o build/main.o -c -I /usr/local/include -std=c++1y -Wall -Wextra -Werror -Wthread-safety -pedantic -MMD -MF build/main.o.d src/main.cpp
 
user1804599
Did you use -std=c++1y instead of -std=c++11?
 
ah
unlikely that I did.
the Wide premake script dates from before -std=c++1y
no I definitely did not.
I wish there was a web interface where I could edit one or two files and then commit that
 
user1804599
You can do that on GitHub.
 
9:11 PM
orly
 
user1804599
Open the file and click the pencil.
 
ah so you can.
excellent.
 
user1804599
Don't forget to pull locally. :P
 
500 rep from 10k... getting there
 
ah turns out I did make --boost-path and friends optional.
my error message for --llvm-path was merely defective.
 
ah yes, -std=c++1y was the issue.
hmm, the error message says I can't convert {} to an unordered_map rvalue? how odd.
 
user1804599
I should set up Styx on Jenkins to build with clang and with GCC.
 
user1804599
Currently it only builds with clang.
 
So I have to pass a 45 minute lecture to university students in the last year of a CS degree on functional programming.
Anyone knows where I can find a good lecture on the merits of FP I can base mine (with attribution) on?
 
@Borgleader Boredom
 
9:19 PM
tell them you'll buy them a beer and give them 45 minutes free time if they pass you
 
I don't get graded on it.
 
then how can you pass or fail it?
 
Write all examples as 100% CPS so that nobody knows whether you know what you're talking about or not
 
@Rapptz Make trees? Play vidya?
 
@Puppy pass as in 'teach', 'passing the material' is slang for teaching it, sorta.
 
9:21 PM
not in English as far as I know
 
@CatPlusPlus I thought I could do a lecture on monad transformers for the lols, but I don't think they'd like that very much.
I just want something basic like how it's easier to map/fitler/fold collections instead of creating things explicitly.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum: What is the point of the lecture? To teach them actually something useful or to just give them a safari ride over all things functional?
 
FITLER LIKE HITLER
 
user1804599
> When build triggers are used to start a build, there's no way to pass parameters. This includes SCM polling, downstream builds, and periodic builds. Instead, the specified default values will be used for string, boolean and choice parameters.
 
user1804599
Ugh.
 
9:23 PM
@VáclavZeman they all had to perform an exercise - some of them did it in Java, some did it in C++ and some did it in Python. The idea is to show them how ideas from functional programming can make their life easier, and to possibly encourage them to take a course about the topic in the second semester.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Then take the exercise and do it in your favourite functional language to show them it is way easier to do than in all the above? :)
...if it is.
 
That's something I've considered doing, I also want to start with an overview and some ideas.
 
user1804599
WTF GCC
 
user1804599
I have #pragma GCC diagnostic ignored "-Wunused-label" in my code y u error
 
I think it's just "unused-label"
 
9:28 PM
 
user1804599
Hmm, maybe because the label comes from a macro defined before the pragma.
 
that makes a lot more sense.
hmm
 
@rightføld Put the pragma inside the macro. I think the syntax is something like __pragma or _Pragma followed by the same options as in the #pragma case.
 
says here the linker can't find any of the LLVM libraries.
 
user1804599
Still fails, fuck.
 
user1804599
9:33 PM
Let's just disable that warning globally.
 
@rightføld Mark the label __attribute__((__unused__)) instead? That is AFAIK permitted in GCC.
 
wait
why are you expanding labels from macros...?
are you intentionally setting out to make unreadable code?
 
user1804599
Yay it builds.
 
Because writing IP increment is too much work apparently
 
user1804599
@Puppy I want to jump to other switch cases.
 
user1804599
9:35 PM
@CatPlusPlus That's only because I want the labels to appear after that.
 
sure, but why?
 
Tail calls
 
user1804599
I could put the calling machinery in a separate function.
 
user1804599
And call it from case Opcode::Call and case Opcode::TailCall.
 
trying to force this TV into some format other than 16:9 and failing
parents changed their TV so they put this on my desk
it has HDMI support so I thought about using it as a monitor
it's old and low quality and broken (visible artifacts) but it might be good enough to spread my work a bit
no apparent way to switch to something else than 16:9 though and the image is visibly narrowed on 1280x720
or w/e I set it to
note the horrible bottom bar
lol
 
user1804599
9:41 PM
dat resolution
 
user1804599
yum tictac
 
user1804599
@VáclavZeman Not all labels are unused.
 
user1804599
Oh wait, neat.
 
user1804599
Lemme try.
 
I thought 1024x768 is its native but if I set it to that it says no signal
 
9:42 PM
@rightføld That does not matter. It just suppresses the warning if it is unused.
 
user1804599
Can the attribute go before the label?
 
user1804599
Otherwise the syntax isn't nice anymore. :P
 
@AlexM. s/geek/fail/
 
@rightføld Probably not, they would have shown it in the manual..
 
user1804599
I thought to be smart and do #define OPCODE(oc) case Opcode::oc: ++instructionPointer(); oc: __attribute__((unused)); case static_cast<Styx::Opcode>(-1 - __COUNTER__).
 
user1804599
9:48 PM
Now I get src/vm.cpp:112:13: error: case value not in enumerated type 'Styx::Opcode' [-Werror,-Wswitch] :P
 
meh, no chance, it's just a cheap crap
even if I make it work the text is a pain to read
due to weird aliasing no matter what settings I choose
 
@Puppy it works better than generating pragmas from macros!
 
@rightføld Why not just do something like unordered_map<Styx::Opcode, std::function<stuff>>?
 
user1804599
Yay it works.
 
@AlexM. Don't use TVs as monitors.
 
9:50 PM
had to try
 
Ell
@Rapptz I always wondered why not
 
all it took was inserting a cable
 
Ell
I've never tried it
I've always had an abundance of monitors
 
user1804599
\o/
 
user1804599
> #define OPCODE(oc) case static_cast<int>(Opcode::oc): ++instructionPointer(); oc: __attribute__((unused)); case (-1 - __COUNTER__)
 
user1804599
9:51 PM
Worst macro ever!
 
user1804599
Thanks @VáclavZeman!
 
please stop burning my eyes
 
jesus
 
user1804599
The negative cases will never happen because the switch value is always non-negative. :P
 
user1804599
9:53 PM
But now I can have my precious colon.
 
I definitely think that you are Doing It Wrong™
 
user1804599
 
accurately summarizes the situation :P
why not just use case static_cast<int>(Opcode::oc): ++instructionPointer(); oc?
 
user1804599
Unused label.
 
right.
 
user1804599
 
St. Austell Tribute on tonite, together with 'Zydeko Hot Rods'. Despite the name, they can actually play quite well. The Tribute is stellar. I may be tired and emotional later.
 
as opposed to any other day?
 
ew
 
Well, tonight I'm aiming for 'tired and emotional as a newt'.
 
thisCase in C++?
 
10:02 PM
why not?
I'm not a fan of thisCase in general, but languages and casings are orthogonal.
 
I always use the naming convention and casing set forth by the language for consistency.
Nothing bugs me more than having functions in thisCase while everything else is this_case.
 
user1804599
 
the only casing I dislike is the unnecessary underscore casing. Other than that, just keep it neat and homogenous.
 
user1804599
lolwut
 
@Rapptz I've been using a 28 inch TV as a monitor for four years
 
user1804599
10:03 PM
> 2 total
 
user1804599
And 80.80% is upvotes.
 
personally I usually find myself using a totally random mix of snake_case and PascalCase
 
Ell
I use PascalCase for class named and snake_case for most other things
 
int number_of_snakes = _PLANES_COUNT_ * SnakesAverage + extraSnakes;
 
Fuck snakes.
 
10:06 PM
Man, this looks really scary to me: store.steampowered.com/app/250620
 
user1804599
I think in Styx I'll just do it like in Go.
 
Ell
@VáclavZeman looks terrifying
 
@VáclavZeman Horror with FP as a 2yo child? How weird is that?
 
user1804599
So capitalised names are public and non-capitalised ones are private.
 
@MartinJames Well, when you are 2 years old, everything is scary.
 
user1804599
10:11 PM
As opposed to a private keyword.
 
I usually find that since you can't control the casing of other people's code, as long as you're not writing literally every line from scratch yourself, you can't avoid mixing schemes
so there's no point insisting on any given scheme.
 
@Puppy Well, you should be consistent with yourself, whatever style you pick. :)
 
Ell
If the language sets a style you should follow that style
like python
 
@VáclavZeman I don't really see why. If you can't achieve consistency why waste time trying.
 
Ell
but I don't think the consensus is so strong in c++
 
10:17 PM
@Ell Why?
 
@rightføld: You should seriously use some backslashes to break the line into multiple: github.com/rightfold/styx/blob/master/virtual-machine/src/…
 
Ell
@Puppy other people write bad code, if you can't achieve perfect code, why waste time trying
 
user1804599
Perhaps.
 
Ell
@Puppy for consistency
it is easier to read, you can identify what symbols are by the style often
 
meh
may as well shit in a consistent fashion or wear consistent clothes
ask the language designer if he likes doggystyle and have sex consistently with him
@Ell Because "better" has actual value, unlike consistency.
 
Ell
10:19 PM
@Puppy consistency has actual value
it makes code easier to read
 
firstly, no, it does not.
 
@Puppy Consistency creates predictability. That is a valuable trait.
 
Ell
if I know that symbols in PascalCase are classes
 
Ell
I can tell instantly what something is by it's casing
 
10:19 PM
secondly, interfaces protect me from other people's badness, more or less, or I can change library.
 
Ell
etc.
 
you can't effectively protect yourself from other people not using the same casing.
 
'cos I used to love C++, but it's all over now..
 
@Ell So basically, it's Hungarian notation.
just mouse over it in your environment and have the editor tell you what it is.
 
Ell
My environment doesn't do that
 
10:20 PM
then get a better one.
 
No, it's not hungarian notation
 
instead of hoping that the author was a blind bat who couldn't think for himself for one second to determine what aesthetic and totally arbitrary style he liked.
 
Ell
also your environment can't filter out noise for me
it can't read my mind
@Puppy it's quicker to read case than to move my mouse over something
 
@Jefffrey There's no material difference between "CName" vs "Name" -> "Name is a class", and "Name" vs "name", -> "Name is a class"
 
Ell
@Puppy not when there are people like you :L
 
10:22 PM
lvFolderTree... fuck me, it's a list view..
 
@Ell Except mousing over it might actually produce accurate results.
 
Ell
So will reading the case if you have a consistent style
 
which can never be achieved if you ever interoperate with anyone else.
 
Ell
your argument is "Consistent style is useless because there are people like me who don't believe in it"
@Puppy why not?
 
because you can't change what style they used.
so as long as you have to use their code, your code will be littered with a mix of your style and their style.
 
Ell
10:23 PM
They used the same style as you
 
really?
 
Ell
Yea
 
I didn't notice that Windows API and C++ stdlib used the same style.
 
Ell
Because the language recommends that
 
guess I should just hope that I never, ever, work on a project that has to use both APIs.
 
Ell
10:23 PM
@Puppy This discussion started from python
 
in Python, you still have other people's code, so the point is still valid.
 
Ell
I even said that I agree that c++ doesn't have such a strong consensus
@Puppy but other people follow the python style guidlines
 
@Ell Boost uses C++ casing.
 
@Puppy Hungarian notation is about name of variables describing their type. It has absolutely nothing to do with class names. Hungarian notation is bad because it makes you encode the type of a variable in a name, therefore making changes harder. There's no such a problem with class names.
 
I don't
 
10:24 PM
A lot of C++ libraries do now a days actually.
 
tvNetworkMap...fuck me, it's a treeview visual component that displays the network map...
 
@Jefffrey Sure there is. What if I change it from a class to a typedef? Or a struct? That's even less significant than changing the type...
 
Last C++ library I used that didn't was SFML.
 
Ell
@Puppy because you're bad at python :P
 
But I stopped using it.
 
10:25 PM
@Ell That belief will not help you if you have a need to depend on my code.
 
@Puppy What about it?
 
Ell
@Puppy lol why would I ever depend on your code
 
typedef, struct and classes should all have the same casing imho
 
Ell
but seriously.
 
@Jefffrey Well, you have the exact same problem, except now it's even worse because you're running up against it in far more trivial changes.
 
10:26 PM
so I really don't see the problem
 
Ell
it's the same as having bad code
 
bad code can be hidden behind an interface.
 
Ell
what about at interface boundaries?
 
what about them?
 
OK, I bought the Among the Sleep game.
 
Ell
10:27 PM
bad code at interface boundaries
 
@Puppy I really don't see how you have the exact same problem.
 
And I am scared to even start it. >_<
 
well, fundamentally, you have to be able to deal with other people's code not being written the way you would have written it.
and the exact same applies here- you need to be able to cope with other styles, which means that you need to be able to handle not assuming that the style matches yours.
which directly means that you cannot assume that any particular function always calls code written in your style.
 
I don't care about that.
I'm talking about my own code.
Not anyone elses.
 
then it's even more meaningless
 
10:29 PM
I'm bad at Python too. I don't see it as a massive personal problem or worldline barrier. It's more of a badge of pride, like being the biggest crack dealer in the 'hood.
 
It isn't.
I strive for consistency with the stdlib.
I think everyone should.
 
if you're writing a trivial Python script, then it should probably be small enough for you to keep it all in your head at once, or just read up a bit
 
But there will always be people who don't.
 
if you're writing a more serious application then you probably need a dependable source of information
which identifier casing is definitely not.
 
Your argument is silly anyway.
 
10:30 PM
Just make your language like haskell and actually enforce casing
problem solved
 
that's even worse.
 
nobody is going to be inconsistent anymore
 
yeah, because they just won't use the language
 
Plenty of languages enforce style
 
10:32 PM
no, because people will stop caring about casing and write software instead
 
and they're all dumb.
 
It removes ambiguities
 
lol
 
Ell
@Puppy do you not see any merits for consistency at all?
 
10:32 PM
@Jefffrey Not caring about casing implies simply coping with the fact that casings are mixed, which is exactly what I am advocating here.
@Ell Not in this case, no.
 
@Puppy you do know "and they're all dumb" is not a proper argument, right? Right?!
 
@VáclavZeman It's exactly as proper as "Plenty of languages".
 
I don't care about casing but omg they enforce one this is an outrage
 
Don't start from C++ as first programming language, unless you have a lot of time. — nbro 1 min ago
 
@Puppy Nope. What I meant there is that if you can't choose, then your only choice is to write consistently with all the others.
 
Ell
10:34 PM
@Puppy what is this case now?
 
@Jefffrey Right, so you've gone from "Duplicate information the environment contains" to "Force everybody to also make this terrible decision". Nice job.
 
?
 
@Ell The case in which you are encoding information that your environment should already be able to present to you trivially into your identifiers.
 
Argumentum ad puppy strikes again.
 
10:36 PM
which is exactly what you are suggesting with that "PascalCase for classes" crap.
 
4 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
It removes ambiguities
 
Yeah it does.
 
Ell
@Puppy I guess I should stop making my macros all caps then vOv
 
While reading code anyway.
 
macro upper case has nothing to do with telling the user that the name is a macro
it's about not clashing names because the language can't handle it properly
 
10:37 PM
lol
 
Ell
@Puppy Why would it prevent name clashes?
 
it doesn't, necessarily.
 
Because ambiguit- oh whatever
 
I don't employ macros typically anyway so I can't say that I have ever run into this problem.
 
Ell
@Puppy it doesn't at all
 
10:39 PM
right, except that there's actually a real reason to not want name clashes between macros and non-macros, which is that some exceedingly confusing things can happen- although, again, I think that actually, simply viewing the code in a proper environment would be enough to display the problem.
 
@Puppy You didn't answer on my "I don't see the problem with PascalCase for classes" thingy.
 
user1804599
   +/i.10
45
 
user1804599
Nice.
 
I like all my name clashes to be in the things I actually use
 
Ell
@Puppy right but why would casing prevent name clashes in this world where nobody has any consistency in their naming?
or are you saying that it's pointless making macros all caps?
And that the environment should colour macros differently
 
10:41 PM
it doesn't, it's just an approximation, and everybody should be able to handle what happens when they include Windows.h and they define things like GetWindowText or whatever.
and the environment should colour macros differently.
 
Ell
@Puppy an approximation? I don't understand
what is an approximation of what?
 
@Jefffrey The problem with requiring PascalCase for classes is that firstly, there's no reason for anybody to give a shit that a particular type is a class, and secondly, as soon as you change it to a struct, then it's no longer correct despite the fact that you didn't actually make any semantic changes at all.
 
@Puppy Why is it no longer correct?
 
Types are types, there's no reason to use different conventions for structs and classes
 
PascalCase would be for classes/structs/typedefs/using aliases
 
10:44 PM
@Ell Using different casing conventions for macros is an approximation to a missing language feature- not having to deal with other people's macro crap. There's a difference between eliminating some errors, and making an assumption which may not be valid.
@Jefffrey It's not correct because it's not a class.
@Jefffrey That is not what Ell said. If you want to argue that it's dumb, tell him, not me. I'm also arguing that it's dumb.
 
Name clashes are a problem between parts of your code too
You can't have identifiers called the same as types
 
@Puppy I thought you were talking to me? We were discussing your claim that PascalCase for types is hungarian notation.
 
Ell
meh I don't care
 
true, but you get an entirely reasonable compiler error when that occurs, with big red underlines in your proper environment, so there's no reason to invest effort in preventing this.
 
Ell
I haven't slept enough
 
10:46 PM
It requires more effort to correct that than to prevent that
 
@Jefffrey The claim I responded to did not say types. It said classes. FTR, using it for types is also dumb, since your environment can tell you or, in the case of template ambiguity, you have to disambiguate before you can use it. So there's no reason that you should not be able to know from reading the code whether or not a thing is a type regardless of how it is cased.
 
Does VS still use the template "New Class" to create a class "CMyClassName"?
 
@Puppy What does this freedom actually buy you that is worthwhile?
Hint: "I WANT MY STYLE" is not worthwhile
 
It's the same dumb argument as with layout-based syntax
But I want to be able to write terrible code!!!
god
 
well, I think that when I am coding a function, being able to think about what it's supposed to do instead of the naming of every little thing is advantageous.
 
10:51 PM
lol
 
also, I WANT MY STYLE is totally worthwhile.
 
Therefore all my locals are called a0, a1, ...
 
iWanTmyStYLEtoo
 
@Rapptz are you 12?
 
I_Want_My_Style_Too
 
10:52 PM
inb4 xXxIwantMyStylexXx
 
@Borgleader Nah m8. That's illegal.
xXNameXx should have caught on.
 
user1804599
I like all-caps keywords.
 
PROCEDURE DIVISON
 
@Puppy Why would conventions prevent you from "thinking about what it's supposed to do" again?
 
@CatPlusPlus The only thing I genuinely dislike about that is tabs vs spaces crap. Like if you use an editor that inserts tabs by default in your spaces file and then the interpreter throws a fit for no good reason. Otherwise, it's fine. And even then, I wouldn't care about that if it was a language whose primary use case was not one-off tiny programs where it's not worth investing in the environment.
@Jefffrey Because I'm bitching about whether or not every name meets the guide instead of doing what I should be doing, which is making it work.
 
user1804599
10:54 PM
I disallow tabs.
 
Tabs are ambiguous when mixed with spaces
 
only in some environments
 
user1804599
> trim = (<* many (char ' ')) (Y)
 
No, always
It's akin to your editor inserting new blocks without thinking
 
really? because it's funny that I use 4 spaces to indent and both Notepad++ and VS default to ... 4 spaces per tab.
so if I have 4 spaces and a tab, they both display as 4 spaces, so there's no reason to give a shit.
 
10:55 PM
lol
WORKS FOR ME
 
I only fix it up if it annoys me
 
user1804599
You are terrible.
 
user1804599
 
coming from "I generate labels with macros"
 
@Puppy Is your brain not able to solve the "what casing should go here" problem in less than 1/10 of a second?
if so, you should consider getting a new brain, with more processing power
and maybe a better cache too
 
10:56 PM
brain upgrades are unfortunately not possible.
 
@Puppy yet
 
Fucking style council. I don't care. I know whether my instances are forms, panels, editBoxes, memos or server subsystems.
 
and I actually do find "Pointlessly bitch about casing" to be quite a distinct problem and rather distracting.
 
then, I'm sorry for you
 
user1804599
There have been successful brain transplants.
 
user1804599
10:57 PM
On dogs.
 
@Puppy then stop bitching about it
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey dat pun
 
and just write like you are supposed to
 
Ell
Tabs for indent, spaces for align master race
 
I don't bitch about it at all, I'm fine in C++ writing whatever casing I feel like at that precise moment.
6
 
10:58 PM
are you serious?
 
WOOF WOOF Udderfucker.
 
the only problem occurs when people feel like they need to intercede and try to make me write a particular casing for no good reason.
 
> no good reason
 
Man your code must be awful.
How do you not care about consistency?
Do you randomly switch casing mid function or something? I don't know the extent of this.
 
known to happen.
 

« first day (1526 days earlier)      last day (3427 days later) »