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12:00 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I see points.
Worse! I see explicit recursion. Ugh.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes points?
 
@BartekBanachewicz ooooh.... just found out you also have one of those annoying headers that stick the top of the screen and don't scroll like a well behaved page.
 
user784668
@BartekBanachewicz yes, points
 
Your beholder eye is broken.
 
user784668
@BartekBanachewicz proper Haskell is pointless
 
12:01 PM
@Fanael not point-free?
 
Same thing. Less funny.
 
@thecoshman :laffo: at your definition of "well behaved". But I might narrow it vertically a bit.
 
@Fanael That's probably the best you can get, unless someone here has some experience with running it on Windows, although I would assume it is quite usable - Linux isn't fully supported yet, in theory - but I haven't got any problems with libc++ on Linux yet.
 
@BartekBanachewicz why have it like that at all?
is it really that important people can always see it is your site they are on?
 
@thecoshman So readers can remember what they are reading!
 
Xeo
12:03 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes The funniest thing about point{-free,less} Haskell is the amount of points / dots you actually see.
 
also "Why physics engines suck for game development?" is not a question
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes isn't that what the page title is for?
 
Ooooh, thecosh giving grammar advice!
3
 
@thecoshman no, it's easier to navigate
 
user784668
@jalf page title is so IX century
 
12:04 PM
I honestly think that if you need my header to stick around so you remember what you are reading, you're not my audience. Or my writing sucks tremendously.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes or both
 
It is so freaking not fair - why asking us regular users to not troll when the mods are trolling almost all the times?
 
@BartekBanachewicz at the cost of a big fat ugly header that never gets out of the way?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I still have no idea what that is
 
user784668
@Telkitty猫咪咪 because they can
 
12:05 PM
@thecoshman it's not that big, really.
 
user784668
@Telkitty猫咪咪 double standards
 
If they are leading by example, we should all be trolls!
 
@BartekBanachewicz it's there once I (should) have scrolled past it, that's the problem.
that bar is offering nothing positive
 
Xeo
*past
 
@BartekBanachewicz "Points" in this context are the arguments used in the definition.
A pointfree style defines functions without information about the arguments.
 
12:07 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes was your mention of fixing typos just an attempt at humour, or are were you actually offering to help fix typos?
 
@Fanael so true, I think I am almost tempted to apply for part time volunteer job at SE so I can troll all the times and never get banned. If I do at some point, I will just help myself to get unbanned
 
okey, I've narrowed it a bit
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes You mean without names, no? The signature still contains information about them.
 
@thecoshman Latter. I might have some bored times waiting for planes soon.
 
@thecoshman it looks nice and keeps "home"/"back" buttons handy
 
12:08 PM
@BartekBanachewicz it's not the height of it, it's the fact it does not scroll with the page. I think you have actually made it look worse now.
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz Yellow bar: Ok. Blue bar: Err?
 
@Xeo Those are parameters. Or something.
 
@Xeo contrast?
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz No, the fact that the blue bar is there at all
 
@thecoshman seriously, I should stop taking advice from people misaligning content and headers
 
Xeo
12:08 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes f x y = ..., here x and y are parameters.
 
@BartekBanachewicz subjective. back botton is built into browser. Just have the bar a the top, and let it stay there!
 
@thecoshman I like how it works in the current setup
 
@BartekBanachewicz logical fallacy
@BartekBanachewicz fair enough, it's your site
@BartekBanachewicz 'clashing'
 
@thecoshman also everything except content is fixed, if you haven't noticed
@thecoshman they match perfectly
 
@BartekBanachewicz but everything else is out of the way to the side, it provides handy links without getting in the way of what matters content
 
12:10 PM
not everyone wants to have ass-boring flat-grey-rectangle site, mind you.
 
@BartekBanachewicz yellow and blue? hardly
 
@thecoshman or, as a SEO expert would put it, your "genuine" content ;)
 
@thecoshman ITT coshman lecturing me on colour theory
 
Xeo
@thecoshman *hardly
 
@jalf hehehe
 
12:11 PM
@BartekBanachewicz ... your content and headers are misaligned :|
 
@jalf shhh, don't poke holes in his arguments.
 
also, you guys should just make both of your sites look awesome, then everyone would be happy :)
 
@jalf Except for their e-peens.
 
@jalf there's no way 3 gray rectangles will look awesome
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes, but it would be too much work to make those look awesome
 
12:14 PM
It's not like I am an epic designer or something, and that's precisely why I am using theme from someone that actually knows what he's doing
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz I like it.
@BartekBanachewicz ... or not
 
@BartekBanachewicz wthat? not every theme is automatically awesome
 
@BartekBanachewicz You know, the "the ass-boring flat-grey-rectangle theme" was not created by thecosh, nor by me.
 
@Xeo you are of course aware that pretty much noone here has any real graphic design background, so all of those will be merely opinions
@R.MartinhoFernandes it looked different in original version
 
12:15 PM
It was created by some ass-boring link-blurring designer.
 
@thecoshman you might not like the particular one, but pretty much all of GHP ones are good
 
His one is also from there!
 
@BartekBanachewicz I'm all for using other people's themes (it's what I did), but that particular one looks like a CSS error :/ As you alreadyp ut it, there is something to be said for having the header and the content be at least somewhat aligned
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes again, modified so much it's not the original one
that's the original one, no?
 
@BartekBanachewicz yeah, even flatter
 
12:17 PM
What's so different?
He added some gradient and removed the link blurring.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes blue button at the top, folders breaking the middle line.
 
Oh right, he got rid of that noise too.
 
@BartekBanachewicz hardly. I made the central content wider, a gradient, and removed silly blurs
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes that's not noise.
 
"Fork me on GitHub" is.
 
12:18 PM
@BartekBanachewicz wtf would I would that noise?
 
these are very important visually
 
user784668
@R.MartinhoFernandes link blurring?
 
My blog's theme originally had a big-ass green apple in the upper right. I removed that because who wants an apple on their blog? :D
 
".tar.gz" and ".zip" are too (WTF is there to download).
 
@Fanael hover effect that blurs links
 
12:18 PM
@thecoshman because these items balance the page
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz A bright blue button on a grey-ish background catches the attention way too easily, so I'd consider it noise.
 
user784668
@thecoshman lol, the designer is idiot
 
ok, seriously, I'm out of this.
sure, y'all professional graphic designers
dunno why did I even start that
 
Xeo
Nobody said that. I'm just stating my opinion.
 
user784668
@BartekBanachewicz so people are entitled to have their own opinion only if it agrees with yours?
 
12:20 PM
@Fanael well, he is a professional graphic designer.
 
@Fanael no? You're missing the point, again, so yeah.
 
Who other than you is getting it?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes John Carmack?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Apparently no-one, so that doesn't leave me much place for discussion, huh?
 
Ell
Mmm caramel
 
12:22 PM
It's obvious for me that, for example, a "download" button (or GH link) on a project page it's something important. That's why it stands out.
 
@BartekBanachewicz but it has nothing to do with my site, why would I have links to forking my site?
 
Now take that out and you break the page as a whole.
@thecoshman because they have important visual impact on the whole site
just like the folders on the line.
 
@BartekBanachewicz exactly, it's a bright neon button linking to something I do not wish to link to.
 
the theme was designed with them in mind, and if you remove them, you strike the balance
 
@BartekBanachewicz which doesn't necessarily mean that removing them is a bad thing. Just that it changes the visual impact of the site
 
12:24 PM
@thecoshman it's not about linking. It's about the fact it's there, and removing it leaves a fucking near-black rectangle
 
@BartekBanachewicz yeah, and if, IF, I want some sort of category thing for sections, I probably will being them back.
 
Protip: website designs are neither sacred nor perfect, and you can actually modify them, and sometimes the result is not worse.
 
@jalf agreed.
but in that case folder removal puts more unnecessary emphasis on the division line
 
It seems like your argument basically boils down to "GH designs are already perfect, and any modification detracts from them". (or, alternatively, none of us are graphic designers, but my graphic design opinions are correct and yours aren't")
 
@thecoshman yeah and you're missing the point of looks again.
 
12:25 PM
The line disappears once you start reading.
 
@BartekBanachewicz a very good emphasis, separating the header from the actually content
 
user784668
@R.MartinhoFernandes do you know anybody who ever even tried reading a website?!?
 
@jalf no, merely "you can't add and remove shit from the theme and expect it to still work without giving it a thought"
 
user784668
5 mins ago, by Fanael
@BartekBanachewicz so people are entitled to have their own opinion only if it agrees with yours?
 
12:26 PM
@Fanael No one has gone so far as to.
 
@BartekBanachewicz sorry, I don't like the 'look' of functionless junk. For my site those folders meant nothing, so I got rid of the noise
 
yeah, sure.
 
@BartekBanachewicz indeed, but did I say my style was finished?
 
@thecoshman I have no idea, but right now it looks terrible.
 
@thecoshman Less garbage => straight to business.
 
12:27 PM
Can I just point out one little thing here?
 
@BartekBanachewicz oh, but if I add some useless buttons back, including a neon blue one that draws the attention it would suddenly be great again.
 
user784668
@jalf no, because Bartek will feel offended
 
getting offended over criticism of which website design you chose for your blog seems a wee bit petty. ;)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Shall I remind you how you dissed my CSS-less page?
@Fanael how about you fuck off for once?
 
You're both free to ignore every bit of feedback and critique you're getting
 
12:28 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes makes sense to me. People come to... well, hopefully will come, to my site to read what I have to say, not look a picture of a folder.
 
@jalf I am not ignoring anything
 
Xeo
That's the thing he's pointing out.
 
@BartekBanachewicz but you are free to do so. And if the critique hurts you so much, then maybe you should ignore it
 
Xeo
You could ignore it.
 
40 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Ooooh page wars.
 
12:29 PM
atm though, I just wish DNS would update so I could actually see my site...
 
user784668
@BartekBanachewicz no
 
@BartekBanachewicz Did I suggest adding garbage?
 
If your reaction to critique is anything other than "hmm, I'll see if I can do something about that", then you might be better off just ignoring it entirely
wandering into bullshitty rambles about how none of us are qualified to comment on something made by a professional graphic designer just means you're taking it too seriously. :)
 
@jalf it doesn't hurt me, again, because it's not my theme, so I don't really give a damn. I was just trying to point out that changes to compositions like that should be thoroughly considered. But apparently people here can only talk about opinions, and somehow value these opinions more than any real talk about the topic
 
Xeo
Oh noez, Bartek dropped the F-bomb :>
 
12:30 PM
@BartekBanachewicz it may not be your theme, but it is your site.
 
@jalf It merely means that maybe y'all should stop acting like a bunch of dickheads knowing everything about everything.
 
@thecoshman thecoshman.com looks kinda nice
 
lord, it's only a website, change the colour, don't like it, change it back.
 
@BartekBanachewicz hint: opinions
 
12:31 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I wonder if it could be because we know changes should be thoroughly considered, and the considering should be done by the person running the page. Perhaps based on the opinions of his viewers. :p
 
might wanna align the title to the left
 
@A.H. lol, yeah I'm getting that vibe
 
or mmm adding an image I dunno just looks weird all small caps and not even centered :P
 
@jalf perhaps not. Perhaps "graphic design" is as much of a defined subject as "computer science"
 
@A.H. Wait, small caps?
I see no small caps there.
 
12:32 PM
and whilst I am not an expert on it, and I don't know the exact rules and stuff, I know these exist
 
@A.H. yeah, might add my avatar to it at some stage. probably have it so that it drops over the bottom of the top bar... if you know what I mean?
 
small letters :P
 
@BartekBanachewicz Those rules are called trends.
 
@A.H. it's all lower case. That's how I roll :D
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes is golden division a trend?
 
12:33 PM
@BartekBanachewicz hint: there are no rules just guidelines and guidelines you really should follow
@BartekBanachewicz yes. Whilst it almost always does look good, it should not be followed draconian
 
@BartekBanachewicz whats golden division
 
@thecoshman which you are totally happy to not follow
eh, whatever, really
I don't give a fuck
 
Xeo
You obviously do.
 
user784668
@BartekBanachewicz you already showed you do
 
@A.H. a ratio that is well known to look pleasing to the eye
 
12:35 PM
@Xeo about what I will eat for dinner, totally
 
@BartekBanachewicz What? Where did you get that from?
 
@BartekBanachewicz the golden ratio? I'm pretty sure it's not a rule either. It is a ratio. It is as much a rule as Pi is. The rules/trends are about how it should be applied, and where.
I wish I could think of something witty to say about the rule of pi now
 
Xeo
Pies rule.
 
Style is, by it's very nature, subjective. There are absolutely no rules that you have to follow. Any 'rules' are nothing more than good reasoning shown to work well many times.
 
do you mean this ?
 
12:37 PM
@A.H. AFAIK there is only one sane usage
 
@BartekBanachewicz Is there a rule about that?
 
I am done with graphical design topic.
 
Like, every rectangle in your page should be a golden rectangle?
 
Ell
I think graphic design is like fashion
 
We can talk about something else
 
12:38 PM
@A.H. generally, if you have a side bar menu and a main content, you would have the widths follow that ratio
 
user784668
@Ell i.e. otter crap?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes with a golden color too!
 
@thecoshman isn't that mostly subjective ?
 
Ell
@fanael Haha no, that what looks fashionable is constantly changing
 
@jalf we should do that with the Lounge<chat> project
 
12:39 PM
@A.H. Not mostly. Totally. People tend to like the designs with the golden ratio often, though.
 
@A.H. of course, but the point is, a site with such proportions generally looks good, might it clearly may not work in all contexts.
 
user784668
@Ell and tomorrow otter crap will be fashionable, you shall see
 
Xeo
@Fanael what do the poor otters have to do with this now?
 
Ell
Maybe mink! Not otter
 
fuck that means I need to redo the gui I have been building in QT
add more gold
 
Ell
12:40 PM
Haha
 
user784668
@A.H. player.additem f 1000000
 
@BartekBanachewicz It should be a clear sign that you are failing to convey it, and that gives you an idea of where to focus your efforts: conveying it first, not defending it.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I've noticed you can click the blog title at the top of the page to go home, but the click are for it is like the full page width, not just the area around the the title, seems a bit clunky to me.
 
@thecoshman no, that's alright. There are no other buttons at the top.
 
@BartekBanachewicz yeah, but your mouse turns to a 'you can click this' even though you are not over anything.
 
12:43 PM
@thecoshman you are over something you can click obviously
 
and considering you have a dedicated 'home' button seems redundant to me
 
Ell
Ima buy a milk shake
 
@thecoshman yeah, if anything I'd remove that link alltogether
 
@BartekBanachewicz yes... but I can not see what it is... it's just this blue bar of nothingness. You have no way of knowing where you will go if you click. For all I know, there is actually some image button that just failed to load.
 
Ell
12:44 PM
Later folks
 
Xeo
Let's talk about Ruby.
 
@Ell cya
 
Think I might get rid of the bottom bar from my site though
 
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO Don't remove stuff!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes :P cruft => remove
.... might play with your site @R.MartinhoFernandes to see what it will look like :D
 
12:48 PM
I tried it and didn't like it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I would have the content section grey go all the way down though
if I do keep it, I will make it a lot smaller
 
@thecoshman You mean the footer message would be in the grey?
 
I like how with barteks home page, even though the content is small, the content section fills the screen.
@R.MartinhoFernandes erm... not sure :S
 
yeah, I've made a favicon
 
12:50 PM
@thecoshman My posts are pretty much always more than one screenful.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah I know.
 
Xeo
wtf
 
@BartekBanachewicz o_0 what on earth is that?
 
31 secs ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
yeah, I've made a favicon
edges are rough :/
 
12:51 PM
@BartekBanachewicz it isn't going to matter at 16*16px
 
Xeo
y u no banana
 
My favicon is the awesomes.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes where did you steal it from?
 
@thecoshman Found it after a very tedious search. It's public domain and carried no author information.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 
12:54 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes sure it is :P
 
@thecoshman Yes, it is.
I'm not joking.
It was in some stock image archive thingy.
 
@thecoshman favicon is used for more things that just tab icons
especially on mobiles
 
Has code snippets => sucks on mobile, though.
 
@BartekBanachewicz oh... those people...
 
@thecoshman "those"?
your site has way too low margin on iPad on the left FYI
 
12:57 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes sort of like this. The top bit is funny because of got browser cruft in the way. The bottom is slightly of colour, just so you can see where it is.
@BartekBanachewicz again, 'oh, those people'
 
@thecoshman and again, "those"? What do you mean by that?
 
@BartekBanachewicz marginer? huh? at the low tes I wouldn't expect any margin
 
@thecoshman Why would you even be able to scroll so far?
 
@thecoshman you can't stick text to the left edge of the screen :/ Also it's NOT low resolution, by any means
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes pages that do not have much content displayed on screens I am jealous of
 
12:59 PM
@thecoshman I have no such pages.
My "genuine" content makes such concerns irrelevant.
 
@BartekBanachewicz what do you mean... is it right against the left, or just very close?
 
@thecoshman the text is very close to the left edge of the screen.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes true. I still think I will drop the lower bar... what does it do?
 

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