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user784668
6:02 PM
@KonradRudolph Have no marijuana, sorry.
 
I half feel like switching to naming private members with a leading underscore because I never start them with a capital anyway.
 
well I wasn’t talking about rewarding him!
but FQA pisses me off
and he’s getting upvoted!
well, it’s /r/programming not /r/cpp so no surprise there
 
user784668
@chris Better still: use no underscore.
 
@KonradRudolph I noticed the slew of bad votes.
@Fanael But then I have to think of multiple names for the same thing.
Or shadow it, which I don't like, either.
I need to change my class members scheme a bit anyway.
But leading vs trailing wouldn't make any difference to that.
 
@KonradRudolph lol @ Crazie Eddie annoyed by your mention of the C++ chat
 
6:06 PM
@Mystical Is that guy known here?
 
@KonradRudolph He doesn't hang out here, but he's on SO a fair amount.
 
@DeadMG, Could you elaborate a little bit on your exceptions in exceptional circumstances stance? I'd be glad to hear another view.
 
@chris Well, it's pretty simple.
if I have, let's say, auto x = f();, and let's say for a moment that f does not throw an exception but reports an error some other way- for example, it has an out parameter that is an error code, or sets some global variable.
 
@KonradRudolph [Talking about Crazy Eddie, not "LaurieCheers"].
 
the crux of this problem is that in the next statement, I have access to x when it isn't valid.
 
6:10 PM
@KonradRudolph He was on reddit once claiming the people in the chat ganged up and did something bad to him on SO.
 
the fact that this is possible is why f should either return a valid value, or not return at all.
 
user1804599
Oh they want to attack Syria.
 
@DeadMG I see your point.
 
IMO he's an ass, and it annoys me that his screen name is a reference to one of my favourite books.
 
user1804599
inb4 nuke
 
6:11 PM
Thanks for sharing. I'm still trying to figure out how to know what to use without thinking about the possibilities for too long.
 
@Mystical Hmm. Do you happen to know his SO handle?
 
well
 
just interested in what this guy’s up to
at least he was also irate at the FQA mention :p
 
IMO, the core lesson here is that the user should never have access to an invalid value. Ever.
 
@DeadMG Yeah, that's pretty sensible. Does std::optional throw when you try?
 
6:12 PM
the only exception (har har) I feel inclined to make is that in some core cases, you can argue that the performance of checking everything (e.g. de-referencing invalid iterators) outweighs the benefit.
when most people only use iterators they pre-know are valid.
@chris I'm pretty sure that it's UB.
 
user1804599
I want noub specifier.
 
@DeadMG In any case, the fact that the type is what it is should be decent.
 
well.
 
But really not that different from an optional error code.
 
IMO, the simple question of "Do I return optional<T>" is about "Is it reasonable that the user could know in advance as some kind of pre-condition that the value is valid?".
 
6:14 PM
@KonradRudolph It was "Crazy Eddie", at least at some point.
 
if yes, then having a "UB if not valid" accessor is fine.
else, I would go for something similar that does not have a "UB if not valid" accessor.
 
If I were to have a global cache of const stuff (say, music loaded from a file), what would be the best way to initalize it?
 
@DeadMG True, it makes sense when you can expect no value as one of the possibilities, not when the function fails.
 
@chris I agree that optional<T> is best suited to when a function may return nothing, even when it succeeds.
but I think that the core issue here is that each use case really requires a kinda different interface.
 
6:19 PM
@DeadMG Yeah, I don't like error handling much. It's one thing I really have to think about in order to make sure I choose the best option for what I'm doing. Experience with different types of projects helps. Most of mine involves dealing with error codes from a C interface in a more C++-like way.
 
Hello.
 
user1804599
Hello.
 
user1804599
> I heard that Oxygen and Magnesium were going out and I was like OMg.
 
welp, lost another pound
 
System.Array.SorterGenericArray.IntroSort
 
6:28 PM
up to 38 now.
 
Well, I guess they use introsort after all.
 
@not-rightfold :)
@DeadMG money?
 
@DeadMG change in diet or increasing exercise?
 
user1804599
If database transactions must be atomic, do DBMSes do everything in memory before writing to disk? Or do they store stuff on disk in some separate staging area?
 
> Nobody programs in C/C++ for fun.
I progam in C++ for fun :(
 
6:43 PM
Me too.
What happened with ThePhD?
 
All of the reasons they give are bad, though.
 
Link?
 
Haven't read past 1) yet.
 
@Rapptz He had his account deleted. No one knows why AFAIK
 
Well I have him on Steam and share a Dropbox folder with him.. so I could ask.
I'm at work though.
@chris ehhh.. memory management is a solved problem IMO.
 
6:46 PM
SFML makes me wonder sometimes.
 
People who complain about it really need to be educated on smart pointers.
 
@Rapptz Very agreed.
 
"SFML internally has a limit; it can vary depending on the OS, but you should never exceed 256."
I wonder why.
 
Limit on what?
 
Oh, I thought that was in there. Sound or music instances.
 
6:47 PM
Is guepier Konrad?
@Xeo For the record, I know he upvoted me a lot on SO. Yet I lost no rep, so he was pretty active with his votes I'm guessing so we didn't lose anything.
 
@Borgleader Buffer instances?
 
@Rapptz Yeah, I didn't lose anything, either.
 
I kinda like this expect<T> thing
Sounds neato.
 
@chris yes, but you don't program in "C/C++", now do you?
 
7:03 PM
@JerryCoffin I was thinking about that :p
 
@Rapptz Something happened with ThePhD?
 
@Rapptz Rule of Zero.
@Rapptz Yes.
 
@DeadMG Deleted his SO account
 
@DeadMG Truly phantom now :(
 
Are monads in C++ becoming a thing now?
There have been an increasing amount of posts about implementing them in C++ in x, y, and z ways.
 
7:12 PM
huh.
did anybody catch why?
 
Nope
 
@Rapptz I think it's mostly my fault because I bitched about exceptions in my parser :P
he's still in the Steam Lounge<C++> group though
 
I blame UB.
 
Is there a way to put DLL's further down in the path, or is that a bad idea?
 
@Pawnguy7 You have to put them where the OS can find them at runtime.
 
7:19 PM
I was thinking of doing something like...
 
Also, you have to put them where the OS can find the DLL of the correct version before it finds the DLL of some old version with bugs:)
 
`Base folder`
`Some other folder`
`lib`
`somelib.lib`
That failed.
Ah. True.
It trims leading spaces?
 
@Pawnguy7 You can put a full path in a manifest.
 
Would said manifest be cross platform?
 
@Pawnguy7 Don't know what the Linux equivalent is, sorry :(
 
7:26 PM
Ah. Its funny. Odds are, whatever I make will only run on Windows anyway, but I still don't like using things that wouldn't transfer.
 
@StackedCrooked I like how you get no credits.
 
lol
I didn't think about that yet.
 
@EtiennedeMartel When you press "Run this code" it says "Powered by Coliru online compiler"
 
> Congrats to cppreference.com's team on this very useful and cool feature
I was referring to that comment.
 
7:31 PM
Hey they did some work.
 
they made the errors pretty :D
 
Wait, @ThePhD is gone?
WUUUUT.
WUTWUTWUT.
 
Sure you are kidding.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah =/
 
The fuck is going on here?
People leave without even saying good bye?
 
7:35 PM
inb4 C++.com integrates ideone.
 
@EtiennedeMartel UB caused this.
 
21 mins ago, by chris
I blame UB.
 
Dammit.
 
@EtiennedeMartel It's been a bad week for Loungers. @Ell is lost in space.
 
Who are all these people in the list?
 
user1804599
7:42 PM
> START_CRIT_SECTION();
 
user1804599
I read that as… you know what I read that as.
 
Lots of effort went into this answer, I see.
 
@not-rightfold Err... starting a crtical section of code, ie it's a lock call?
 
user1804599
START_CLIT_SECTION();
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I want my body padding reduced.
 
7:46 PM
@not-rightfold START_CLIT_SUCTION();
 
user1804599
lol
 
@not-rightfold Ahh!! I do so much WinAPI that it just never occurred to me :)
 
user1804599
lol
 
user1804599
This is PostgreSQL.
 
user1804599
> goto cleanup;
 
7:47 PM
@not-rightfold I will certainly misspell my lock calls from now on :)
 
user1804599
 * IDENTIFICATION
 *	  src/backend/access/transam/xact.c
 
user1804599
Looks like COBOL.
 
user1804599
Oh cool Walter Bright is going to GoingNative.
 
Erk! COBOL IDENTIFICATION division detected, goto beer. BFN.
 
@Mystical That is correct.
 
7:58 PM
Is there any good way to debug around elapsed time mechanics?
 
@Pawnguy7 You mean when the time keeps running while the process is stopped in the debugger?
 
@willj Yes. Since it uses (I assume) a differential between time points, instead of what normally might be a 0.01, it is 50 seconds, for example. I have resorted to print debugging for the moment.
 
@Pawnguy7 The usual solution is to run your simulation off a separate timer that counts simulation elapsed time.
and because that timer is running in the same process as your simulation, it will stop running when you're in the debugger
 
@willj What do it use to keep track of time?
 
it runs on a fixed frequency and counts units of that time
 
8:09 PM
okay, you guys need more rep for helping people.
I went for my second attempt, it's not worth it.
 
@willj Isn't this prone to stacking inaccuracies?
 
@Pawnguy7 stacking whats?
 
@Pawnguy7 depends on the source of inaccuracy. If the main error is error in the frequency, then yes. If the error is coming from some intial overhead then it decreases with cycle.
 
@willj For example, if it runs a millisecond later than it was supposed to, but still increments its duration by the same amount.
 
@Pawnguy7 That depends on how accurately you can fix the frequency
 
8:16 PM
woohoo, I can now downvote
 
@Pawnguy7 Ideally you pick a fairly low frequency so it's easy to reliably generate timer updates - 20FPS, 60FPS.. so a millisecond error isn't going to be noticeable.
 
Dude gave away 31 bounties
And has 109 notable questions
 
@TemplateRex pff uses dummy accounts to upvote his own questions.
Just kidding :p
you have more rep then him though
 
Notable Q = 2500 views, not upvotes
 
you're more famous
Oh
 
8:22 PM
Me famous? I hope not
The bounties must have cost him 30k in rep, lol
 
> sorry - I am C/C++ noobe, and I am reading a book=)
 
Ah he is one of those Q-only guys (1108), funny but i hadnt seen any of them before
 
@TemplateRex I only ask Qs becuase everyone beats me to the answers because the only ones I'm sufficient enough to answer are usually answered more completely in 1/2 the time by folks like this sehe guy
though I just snipped an answer on a linker problem. Way to much effort for that rep though
 
@Chemistpp Looking only at the metric rep/time, is not an optimal way to use SO IMHO.
 
@chemistpp answering a Q often teaches you more than asking one yourself
And you can make a living here answering "boost doesnt link" questions, leaving all the nadty boost.spirit qs to the likes of sehe
 
8:37 PM
@StackedCrooked: Stop breaking production: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/…. (command was g++ -std=c++11 -O3 -pthread main.cpp && ./a.out)
 
Stop breaking production?
 
@StackedCrooked well, coliru isn't working, coliru is production, and you broke it, right?
 
@CaptainGiraffe haha yeah yeah.
@TemplateRex also true story.
 
@MooingDuck This can happen if too many users are using it simultaneously. Apparently cppreference's post on reddit is causing some problems.
 
@StackedCrooked needs better error handling then. 503 Service Unavailable? 429 Too Many Requests? 418 I'm a teapot? 408 Request Timeout? 402 Payment Required?
 
8:44 PM
@MooingDuck Is 418 a real error?
I'm pretty sure I've seen that error before
 
@willj ....ish
 
@Chemistpp what I'm saying is, you'll catch on quickly as you start answering more Qs. Heck you are already 1 answer ahead of mr. Big Spender with his 305 popular Q badges, lol
 
@willj it's... sortof... of ambiguous authenticity.
 
sounds like a Pratchett reference ;)
 
The 418 is from Larry Masinter - "This has a serious purpose – it identifies many of the ways in which HTTP has been extended inappropriately." -wikipedia-
 
8:48 PM
@willj it was announced in the normal method by people who have the authority to do so... on April 1st.
The Hyper Text Coffee Pot Control Protocol (HTCPCP) is a facetious communications protocol for controlling, monitoring, and diagnosing coffee pots. It is specified in RFC 2324, published on 1 April 1998 as an April Fools' Day RFC, as part of an April Fools prank. Protocol RFC 2324 was written by Larry Masinter, who describes it as a satire, saying "This has a serious purpose – it identifies many of the ways in which HTTP has been extended inappropriately." The wording of the protocol made it clear that it wasn't entirely serious; noting, for example, that "there is a strong, dark, ...
 
Many grand RFCs have been released on April first.
 
Some parts of the c++ standard appear to have been released on April 1st
10
 
The grandest with an utmost elegant implementation must be the RFC 1149 (IP over avian carriers). One well documented implementation is news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1321176.stm.
 
@willj valarray and vector<bool>?
 
I seem to recall one from the Alps too but my google-fu seems to be lost along with one of my socks.
 
user1804599
8:54 PM
@MooingDuck I want to implement that.
 
@not-rightfold I know of at least two servers that do
 
user1804599
They really brew the coffee?
 
@MooingDuck I'd prefer if the C++14 said. -We apologize for vector<bool>, but if you used it you must have been a complete moron. It is discarded now. Sorry about your next compile.
@not-rightfold The coffee pot cam was HUGE on the early Internet. I'm sure wikipedia can tell you more.
 
Can I make a typedef to an array?
 
of course
 
8:56 PM
Or whatever that is.
 
that's exactly it.
oh, no, that's not it.
grammatically, typedef goes in the same place as const.
 
@EtiennedeMartel typedef int name[3];?
 
Too much C# messes up the typedefs.
 
it's technically a variable declaration, from a grammatical perspective.
that's the only way I managed to remember how to use it.
 
user1804599
int typedef name[3];
 
8:57 PM
@DeadMG Nice point.
 
Daisy sleepin on mah bed.
 
user1804599
Go typedefs are best typedefs.
 
@EtiennedeMartel what really boggles the brain is typedef int (*main)(int argc, char**argv);
 
@not-rightfold Wait in a few months when you'll find something else to fanboy over.
 
user1804599
Wat.
 
8:59 PM
@MooingDuck Missing something or just a cruel one?
 
user1804599
What would I wait for?
 
here's a question
why is it that looking at my emails is so depressing, even when it contains people who want to discuss employing me?
 
user1804599
@DeadMG because it makes you realise you'll still be in a shitty industry.
 
@DeadMG I can agree, what is your spam/real ratio?
 
9:04 PM
@CaptainGiraffe Well, at least some of them are responses to applications I made, so I'm feeling at least a few of them should be real.
 
user1804599
> More formally the semantics of the natural join are defined as follows: R ⋈ S = { t ∪ s | t ∈ R ∧ s ∈ S ∧ Fun(t ∪ s) } where Fun is a predicate that is true for a relation r if and only if r is a function.
 
user1804599
Why would r be a function?
 
@DeadMG I sometimes fear my Inbox. I have had some assaults from semi-legitimate sources, that were sent to me CC:d to the higherups level +1, +2 and +3. That was not fun mails to receive. The +1 higherup was supporting. The +3 was furious.
 
user1804599
Oh wait, nevermind.
 
Ha, preprocessor tricks to turn C# code into a C++ header.
 
9:10 PM
@CaptainGiraffe cruel one. makes a typedef for int(*)(int,char**) named main.
@CaptainGiraffe heh, cdecl.org pukes on it too, but ideone.com/UL7Ncv does it right.
 
@MooingDuck Those function pointers... I'm so happy with templates I should create a dance in their honor.
 
@MooingDuck No it doesn't, you just need to cut the argument names and the typedef. It accepts int (*main)(int, char**)
 
@DeadMG ah, so not like a variable delcaration
 
that is the syntax for a variable declaration, cdecl probably just hates typedef for some reason.
 
@DeadMG I'm putting at a 3:1 odds the standard allows names in the argument list in typedefs.
 
9:17 PM
@CaptainGiraffe I'd bet that too.
in any case
I'm not saying that cdecl shouldn't have accepted it
only that it can accept it with trivial effort.
 
How does this X:Y odds (american way I suppose) work anyways? I think I just offered a bet of $3 to be matched with a $1 bet. Correct?
 
no fuckin' idea
 
Thats a very common idea so it is probably good.
 
@CaptainGiraffe I always assumed it was you pay in $1 and if you win you get $3, but your idea makes sense too.
 
Crap now I need to google that stuff and get back to you. You guys suck information...
 
9:24 PM
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed-odds_betting "if you were to bet $1 at 10 to 1 odds (you could win $10)...."
 
Xeo
Welp, that was a nice nap.
 
"fractional odds quote the net total that will be paid out to the bettor, should he win, relative to his stake. Odds of 4/1 ("four-to-one" or less commonly "four-to-one against") would imply that the bettor stands to make a £400 profit on a £100 stake. If the odds are 1/4 (read "one-to-four", or "four-to-one on"), the bettor will make £25 on a £100 stake."
 
@MooingDuck Then the European odds comes along and makes a mess of it all. (scrap that)
The European odds tells you your payout; not deposit plus payout.
I'm used to the 1.000 odds being unplayable. Fractional odds makes a lot more sense.
I have a gambling problem.
 
@CaptainGiraffe unplayable?
The American system makes more sense to me. 3:1, tells you how much goes in, and how much comes back out.
 
Robert Bales (born June 30, 1973) is a former United States Army staff sergeant who fatally shot 16 Afghan civilians in Panjwayi, Kandahar, Afghanistan, on March 11, 2012 in what media reports widely refer to as the Kandahar massacre. In order to avoid the death penalty, Bales pleaded guilty to 16 counts of murder and six counts of assault and attempted murder in a plea deal. On August 23, 2013, he was sentenced to life in prison without parole. Early life and education Bales was born on June 30, 1973, and raised in Norwood, Ohio, a suburb of Cincinnati, the youngest of five brothers...
This guy.
 
9:37 PM
Yes as betting 1000 would give you back 1000 (1.000 times the bet). Your only winning play is not to play. Would you like to play again Mr Falken?
Plus a small fee.
@MooingDuck I'm a convert. I think the 3:1 system makes sense.
 
I feel so stupid.
Took me like four hours to figure out, I had precedence issues.
The overflow didn't help.
Is there a specific name for clock mechanisms that used the difference between two points, as opposed to an incremental fashion?
 
@Pawnguy7 a timespan?
or a duration?
 
discrete?
 
boost::posix_time::time_duration?
@willj you might have misread
 
oh, the opposite of discrete?
continuous?
 
9:51 PM
@willj ....no....
 
different tangent then
 
Timespan seems best to me, but I am unsure.
 
delta?
 
@Pawnguy7 std::chrono::duration<rep, period>?
@willj I considered that, but discarded it because there's no implied units like with the others
 
Delta Time or Delta Timing is a concept used amongst programmers in relation to hardware and network responsiveness. In graphics programming, the term is usually used but for variably updating scenery based on the elapsed time since the game last updated, and also calculated separately if graphics are being multi-threaded. A user with a slow internet connection or computer is often prone to experience lag or slowness in the responsiveness of the game environment. The purpose of Delta Timing is to eliminate the effects of lag on computers that try to handle complex graphics or a lot of code...
 
9:54 PM
dt doesn't need a unit
 
I think I was vague there. I am not trying to find one to use, I am trying to discuss one with that concept. Just not sure what to refer it as.
 
Delta time.
Also why is that article about video games
dt isn't exclusive to video games
 
games programmers don't do much reading, so they think they invented everything
 
Delta time might work. Or perhaps I should worry less about the name, and just work on my explanation of what it is.
 
9:57 PM
my app keeps crashing with an "Access violation reading location 0xfeeefeee" if I leave it alone for like 5 minutes. In a thread named "Win32 Thread" that has only Windows DLLs in the callstack. Not sure how to debug.
@Pawnguy7 put comments by the declaration to clarify it and you're good
 
@Pawnguy7 Just track how much time was spent between each frame, and use that as a factor when doing time-sensitive calculations (such as movement).
 
wait, output has three "The object invoked has disconnected from its clients." first...
@EtiennedeMartel is this a prior conversation resumed? How do you guys know he's calculating times between frames? He hasn't said anything to insinuate that recently...
 
@MooingDuck I'm just dropping pearls of wisdom.
 

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