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2:00 PM
GLDR?
 
OpenGL Done Right apparently
 
@jalf well, I haven't had it not work yet, but it can slow things like recreating the render target slower
 
Good Luck, Don't Reddit
@BartekBanachewicz "provideing"
 
@Aboutblank yeah, coshman wrote that and I didn't have time to fix it
 
2:02 PM
@BartekBanachewicz how do you pronounce it anyway? Geldor?
 
@johnmac2332 I won't get the badge. My answer doesn't have 2x the score of the other answer.
 
@melak47 G-L-D-R
 
bah :p
 
@johnmac2332: thanks for trying, though.
 
user142019
> Error! Unable to access an error message corresponding to your field name.
 
user142019
2:02 PM
This software is wonderful.
 
I like Geldor better :p
 
heh, whateves, you're using Dx, right?
 
yea
 
well, perhaps you'll switch after GLDR gets released :D
 
if it makes it painless ^_^
 
2:05 PM
@BartekBanachewicz what would you say is the best way to learn git?
 
@Pawnguy7 well using commandline
 
@BartekBanachewicz the git help <command>?
 
@melak47 depends on what "painless" means to you. GLDR still requires fairly good knowledge of OpenGL; it just simplifies using it
@Pawnguy7 oh fuck help. Just experiment.
Do you really need to be lead by hand through everything?
People got hell lazy in the last years.
 
@BartekBanachewicz ditch GLDR then and make GLFD instead
(GL for dummies)
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit yw... i accepted AndreyT answer which has 6 upvote and yours have 28 which is >=2(6) may be it require 10 upvote for accepted answer too ... btw its closed so see how long does it survive :)
 
2:07 PM
@Pawnguy7 Ignoring Bartek, you could learn hg.
 
@melak47 why should i do it?
 
Experiment? That is like telling people to experiment to openGL without knowing what any of the commands do. You aren't going to get anywhere soon.
Not to mention, if I was lazy, why would I want to learn it at all?
 
Also, I need to update my git
 
@Pawnguy7 there's gitguys website of someshit. But seriously, for git experimenting makes a lot more sense. Just start using it and you will learn it; search for practical problems you encounter
 
> git version 1.7.11.msysgit.1
 
2:09 PM
I have 1.8.1
 
user142019
$ git --version
git version 1.8.3.msysgit.0
 
I'm running on ancient software
;_;
 
user142019
Rapptz on Ancientware
 
@Pawnguy7 Here man
 
@Rapptz already done
 
2:10 PM
@Rapptz hey!
 
@Pawnguy7 Don't think I can possibly help you any more than that.
It goes through branches too..
 
Well, whatever I did "sucessfully" there was not replicated locally :D
I like the mechanics of the tutorial, though.
 
I.. what :|
It's.. the same thing?
posted above!
 
@Rapptz thats my point haha.
 
?_?
 
2:14 PM
@Rapptz sorry posted in wrong room
 
@Rapptz he was the one that was trying to set up SFML project for two weeks IIRC
 
Considering I had (A), never built a library before, and (B), had no idea about the different modes of linking the standard library, what would you expect?
 
It's okay. Building big libraries can be annoying the first time.
 
I don't know why I have trouble picking up things :\
 
> two weeks
ok, ok, I'll stop now
 
2:18 PM
`$ git diff head

fatal: ambiguous argument 'head': unknown revision or path not in the working tree.
Use '--' to separate paths from revisions

Success!`
 
lol
 
I broke it
 
shouldn't it be HEAD?
 
yes
also no file autocomplete :<
 
Or like.
How was I supposed to know you cannot make sf::RenderWindow statically?
 
2:20 PM
BEEHOOOOOLD
I'm here.
 
vote for walking dead on steam
 
I'm beholding.
 
@Pawnguy7 Er, static variables are dumb anyway.
 
@DeadMG I have had trouble coping with that part of design
 
2:21 PM
although I do admit
 
@Pawnguy7 dependency injection.
 
that I cannot possibly comprehend what issue would lead to not being able to make it a static variable.
unless the SFML folks use a bunch of static variables themselves, which would be equally dumb.
 
"declaring a static window is a bad idea, since it interferes with the global variables used internally by SFML"
 
@DeadMG tee hee
 
All they told me.
 
2:23 PM
ah
 
SFML is based on singletons, yeah
 
so yes, the SFML implementers are global-variable idiots.
I should not be surprised.
 
implementer, and he's named Laurent, and
 
Has anybody used boost_python ?
 
SFML has a single singleton.
 
2:23 PM
and people ask me why I hate using external libraries so much.
 
user784668
@BartekBanachewicz and he's a global-variable idiot
 
Apr 30 at 20:38, by Bartek Banachewicz
@Morwenn I doubt it. Laurent is just too retarded and is basically forcing SFML to remain a "toy" library
 
@AnimeshPandey nope, VS 2013 fails to compile it :3
 
though I forgot which one
 
somewhere in System
 
2:24 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Yaaay. <3
 
I dunno, I saw it and left the modification for later
 
I am using vs2010
 
pretty much the only external library I found with a decent interface is Boost.
 
@ThePhD Did you sleep?
 
2:24 PM
and I always get this error
 
I've only added sRGB on my fork
 
Cannot open include file: 'pyconfig.h': No such file or directory
 
@AnimeshPandey then you should update to 2013, and then it won't compile
@DeadMG what about Lundi? :)
 
what about it?
 
user784668
@BartekBanachewicz link?
 
2:25 PM
I have never looked at it
 
What is sRGB?
 
although my personal opinion is that all C++ -> Lua binding libraries must suck by definition
 
@Fanael it's on my hackish fork inside my engine, but it was trivial
@Pawnguy7 nonlinear colorspace
 
@Rapptz Maybe...
 
user142019
Meh.
 
user142019
2:26 PM
Fuck Go.
 
user142019
Can't even run 50k goroutines.
 
@DeadMG C++11 helps.
 
@BartekBanachewicz True, but you really need at least static reflection for a decent push, IYAM.
 
Ell
How important can sRGB be
 
@BartekBanachewicz meant to be more accurate color-wise, like the others I am forgetting? (like, green is brighter)
 
2:26 PM
@DeadMG not really. We settled on lower level. Lundi never aimed on exposing whole classes.
@Ell very
 
@rightfold ENOMEM?
 
the shittiness of the Lua API sure doesn't help.
 
user784668
@BartekBanachewicz link still
 
Ell
Would I notice the difference betwen RGB and srgb?
 
user784668
@Ell if you're not blind
 
user142019
2:27 PM
@wilx Dunno; using Go Playground.
 
user142019
I'll try it on my machine when at home.
 
Ell
Ahh my phone is downloading unlimited copies of a PDF
 
Slashdot still exists?
I thought they had been entirely replaced by Reddit
 
@Ell depends if you want to render things as you intended them too look
 
user142019
/b/ > /.
 
at least they are PDFs not executables
 
This reminds me of the Snow Crash novel.
 
@DeadMG you know, it's not that bad
@Ell uh that's not about sRGB display, it's about nonlinear calculations
@Pawnguy7 meant to be correct
 
@BartekBanachewicz Is it used like RGB externally, but converted and displayed correctly?
 
2:31 PM
@BartekBanachewicz It is one of the worst API designs imaginable.
 
wtf is "like RGB"
 
pretty much the only thing worse than that shit is global variable spam.
 
@DeadMG I disagree. The API was influenced by the language design itself, and the stack is a pretty easy concept to grasp
 
@BartekBanachewicz Like, if I had been making a color as sf::Color(255, 60, 25), would I still make it as that color, but it would be displayed differently?
 
@BartekBanachewicz The issue isn't conceptual, it's real.
if I have a lua_State* L, I have no idea what's on the stack.
 
2:33 PM
@Pawnguy7 it would be color ^ gamma, yes.
@DeadMG you can query it :F
 
every time I manipulate the stack, I have to remember what's on it and what's in every position.
@BartekBanachewicz That's not even remotely the same.
 
@DeadMG then, excuse me, how you are going to do that without remembering it?
remember we're talking about C API there
 
@BartekBanachewicz Let me draw a simple analogy for you.
 
it will suck by definition of being C API
 
Lua API push/pop -> assembly push/pop instructions.
real API -> C local variables.
now ask yourself, why do you use C++ instead of assembler?
 
2:34 PM
C local variables?
and how would that work?
 
what would be wrong with, I dunno, lua_Table* t = lua_createtable(L);?
 
@DeadMG C API is more or less "assembly API" for me
@DeadMG ugh, the fact it doesn't work that way?
 
no, it should work that way.
but it doesn't because the Lua API is a steaming pile of shit.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I have no idea what the discussion is about, but let me say this: being in C does not automatically give an API the right to suck.
 
@DeadMG and how would it work that way with GC?
 
2:36 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Obviously you would have to release the table when you're done with it.
 
The stack separates the state from C calls and does it for a reason
@DeadMG which is pretty damn similar to having it on the stack
 
@BartekBanachewicz It's not similar at all.
for example, I can give my table a meaningful name, instead of a random index.
and I can simply scroll up and look at my declared variables, instead of trying to remember everything that's on the stack for all time.
 
but it resides on the stack only long enough for you to make the call
 
I can pass them as proper function arguments.
I don't have to waste my life pushing and popping eternally.
 
ugh, no, it wouldn't work that way
like, not, ever.
not in C.
 
2:38 PM
@DeadMG You mean, like a map?
 
@EtiennedeMartel A map of what to what?
 
@DeadMG Names to variables?
 
that's not going to work, because there's nothing you can store as the value type to represent a variable.
 
Hmm.
I guess the API does suck, then.
 
not to mention the fact that string-typing everything in a std::map is hardly the same as having the compiler deal with locals for you- strong typing, compiler errors, etc.
 
2:40 PM
Puppy's version would either not work at all or work worse.
 
Is it me, or does the Lua API is just a bit of the interpreter's code that they quickly made public when they realized they needed embedding support?
 
seems like it to me.
 
Embedding was a goal at day 0.
 
Because having to manipulate a stack by hand is pretty low level.
 
2:40 PM
it is, true.
 
@BartekBanachewicz So you mean they made it suck on purpose?
 
@johnmac2332 Oh, right. Yeah the accepted answer has to have 10+, as well as mine. I fell into that trap myself on another question the other day.
 
@EtiennedeMartel low-level != suck
 
one of the things I want to do one day is re-implement a Lua VM in C++, so that it doesn't suck donkey balls.
 
@DeadMG Havok did that already. It's called Havok Script
 
2:41 PM
Why not simply re-invent donkey balls?
 
@BartekBanachewicz We're talking about embedding a scripting language.
I don't want to have to manipulate the inner workings of the engine by hand.
 
I think you are forgetting that Lua is extremely small and targetted for extremely small targets too
nobody is forbidding you to create a higher level api based on original C API
 
@BartekBanachewicz Why does the size of the language should impact its embedding API?
 
@EtiennedeMartel because the changes would most probably take more space and possibly impact the speed.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Oh, the "if you don't like it, why don't you rewrite it yourself" argument.
 
2:43 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit If you're gonna make balls, why not make really bouncy balls instead?
They'll be more fun to play with.
 
@BartekBanachewicz You mean, features I don't use would impact the end result?
 
@EtiennedeMartel not "rewrite". "write basing on".
 
And useful for more sports and shit.
 
@BartekBanachewicz No, it won't. They're just foisting that code and speed on to the end-user.
 
2:43 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I don't have time for this shit. Why can't I have something decent out of the box?
 
@EtiennedeMartel I think you should ask Roberto, not me, about it.
@DeadMG not all the user code will need the functionality you're talking about
that being said, I am wrapping Lua API
 
The reason I chose C# as my scripting language for my game instead of Lua was that because I knew I could have better tools support for it. And that embedding it wouldn't be a fucking splinter in the dick.
 
every user code needs to have a decent interface.
 
> fucking splinter in the dick.
sounds painful
 
My guess is whoever wrote that API did not give a fuck about actual ease of use.
 
2:45 PM
@EtiennedeMartel I've never actually looked into embedding C#. What's it like?
 
@DeadMG I've heard many people saying good things about Lua C API
 
@DeadMG A relatively simple COM API to embed the CLR.
 
@EtiennedeMartel oh god. ahahah "wouldn't be a fucking splinter in the dick." you're kidding, right?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Appeal to authority fallacy: "many people".
 
You start it, you create your AppDomain, and then you can load types and execute stuff on them.
@BartekBanachewicz Was pretty easy to do.
 
2:46 PM
@BartekBanachewicz COM > Lua API
 
that's like really one of the best jokes I've heard recently
 
ComGL is gonna be fun.
 
I'm guessing COM is hard in your fantasy world.
 
Hard != retarded
 
COM is a bit painful to write for, but not to use.
 
2:46 PM
I found consuming some COM APIs to be rather simple and easy.
much simpler than the Lua stack shit
 
@DeadMG Yep. Consuming is a walk in the park.
 
well, either way, Lundi has no stack.
 
Producing is bullshit, but hey, it's not what we're doing here.
 
and you can actually write lua["var"] = val;
so yeah
 
@BartekBanachewicz Don't you dare change the subject. We don't care about your well designed API. We only want to bang on Lua some more because you like it and therefore it deserves to be burned to the ground.
 
2:47 PM
I just need to add proper table support now.
@EtiennedeMartel heh, burn what you want, at least I am not the one using C# as the scripting language.
I feel only compassion, not hatred.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I can't hear you over being able to use Visual Studio to debug my scripts.
 
lol
I think there's actually a plugin for debugging Lua
 
And use R# to write them.
 
as a sidenote, HavokScript has the plugin for VS too
 
1
Q: Is a destructor called when an object goes out of scope?

TuxFor example: int main() { Foo leedle = new Foo(); return 0; } class Foo { private: somePointer* bar; public: Foo(); ~Foo(); }; Foo::~Foo() { delete bar; } Would the destructor be implicitly called by the compiler or would there be a memory leak? I'm new to dynamic memory, ...

 
2:49 PM
damn, it should be free :/
 
You know what's free? The CLR.
Woop woop.
 
lo
 
@BartekBanachewicz Why?
 
A lot of things in Havok are free now aren't they?
 
2:50 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit because Physics and Animation are, and Script could be a part of a free package
@EtiennedeMartel Thank god I am free to stay away from it.
 
But yeah, wasn't there a rule that the only Havok product that doesn't suck is their physics engine?
 
um, no?
Animation was really nice to work with.
 
No? I think their Script thing is pretty cool.
 
Havok has been bought by Intel IIRC
 
2:53 PM
lol I just remembered Brawl's awful physics came from Havok
 
If I succeed I have a database with all the dependencies of boost.
@Rapptz yeah, game devs really couldn't use it properly
I remember how bad was physics in Oblivion
 
Not really what I meant.
 
@BartekBanachewicz You said "it should be free". Why "should" it be free?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit because I said so?
 
@TonyTheLion Wow they still make these?
Why won't those images die already
3
 
OIC
 
Apparently
 
so it's "Tony's browsing Reddit" time again.
6
 
^ this
 
2:55 PM
I guess it would be too much to ask that you could keep the shit on shit.org, instead of infesting us with it?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Compared to its predecessor the physics of Brawl were toned down and floaty.
 
@TonyTheLion you know you don't have to repost every crap you find there
 
It's not like it was glitchy, just different.
 
I know
 
I mean, I know that you have a compulsion to repost all the worthless crap you see, but I'd appreciate it not being here
 
2:56 PM
WTF is "glitchy"?
 
@TonyTheLion You should check this subreddit.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Right okay.
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: .NET has no usable destruction semantics [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [no-helpdesk] [programmers-still-bad]
 
2:57 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit well, I'd just like to play with it :f
 
@DeadMG We'd appreciate you not being here, but we can't all have what we want, can we?
3
 
@Rapptz My mouse glitched when trying to open that page
 
> I'm not very fond of C++11—Enoah Netzach
huh
 
2:57 PM
@KonradRudolph Source?
 
@KonradRudolph wat
 
Last time I saw that was on /r/gamedev
 
@Fanael It's CC0, so yeah.
 
I'm not, either.
 
@Rapptz ...
 
2:58 PM
still a good answer though
 
@Rapptz How surprising.
 

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