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Ell
5:00 PM
std::move doesn't move?
 
lol
 
@Ell No, it justs casts to an rvalue, which is not moving.
 
@Ell It merely tags a thing as movable.
 
@ScottW make that MobileFactory :p
 
> Sometimes, we want to move from lvalues. [...] For this purpose, C++11 offers a standard library function template called std::move inside the header <utility>. This name is a bit unfortunate, because std::move simply casts an lvalue to an rvalue; it does not move anything by itself. It merely enables moving. Maybe it should have been named std::cast_to_rvalue or std::enable_move, but we are stuck with the name by now.
 
5:02 PM
std::cast_to_rvalue is terrible.
 
At least it doesn't lie.
 
@FredOverflow If you want to go there, it doesn't lie because it is a nonsensical expression.
 
Ell
rvalue_cast
 
You cannot cast things to value categories.
You cast things to types.
 
But you get value categories as a side-effect.
for example, (int)i is an rvalue.
 
5:04 PM
std::as_rvalue maybe
 
Ell
value_cast<lvalue>
:3
 
@AndyProwl Yeah, that's probably better.
 
@FredOverflow cast_to_rvalue gives the idea that all things with rvalue reference types are rvalues.
And I don't want the silly value category names from the standard to leak into the language :(
 
Anonymous rvalue references are xvalues and hence rvalues.
 
std::movable, following the better value category names, would be much better, IIAM.
 
5:07 PM
movable or moveable? :)
 
I think movable is more common.
 
Xeo
std::as_movable. :)
 
Why the as_ prefix?
 
Xeo
as_const
 
What?
(why not std::as_ref instead of std::ref?)
 
5:08 PM
ass_const
hehe
 
as_seen_on_SO
 
I like as_moveable
 
Is there a thing like Maven for .NET?
 
The as communicates that you are just seeing an object as something else, rather than creating a new object or asserting something about an object
 
std::abandon
 
5:09 PM
@CatPlusPlus there's NuGet for package management.
 
Oh, that's an open thing?
 
Cool
I like the concept behind Maven
 
Maven is something that I did miss in .NET.
NuGet showed up very late.
 
If there was something like this for C++ I might use C++ more
 
5:11 PM
Yeah :S
Even vim plugins have package managers these days.
 
Even a build system with pluggable dependency descriptions
That everyone would just fucking use instead of inventing new shit that doesn't work
 
Is there a stable vim plugin system?
 
lol, I just googled for "Mac users love", and Sublime Text 2 was result #3 :)
 
5:14 PM
@FredOverflow guess they're gonna have to love Sublime Text 3 now? :p
 
They're suckers with too much money so they will
 
tpope is a vim hero.
 
I tried Vundle a few weeks ago but there but didn't get it to work. There was a git error messsage. I don't remember which exactly though.
"did you run git update-server-info" or something
 
You did something wrong
 
5:17 PM
I just tried to install a Vundle package.
 
@StackedCrooked Well, maybe the author did something wrong, then. Was it from GitHub?
 
Don't remember. I should retry.
 
@ScottW Because they suck.
 
@ScottW for debugging, for formatting things in a broken way by being careless, and for formatting things correctly.
 
@ScottW Because Java had toString and they stole it.
 
5:19 PM
Oh, joy.
It's Friday. =l
 
@FredOverflow I believe that I already stated that
 
I seem to get farther with Vundle this time.
(was farther the right word here?)
 
@ScottW In any case, if you mean object.ToString, then it's only useful for the first two.
IFormattable.ToString is what the cool kids use.
 
@StackedCrooked If you want to be truly correct, it should be "further" ("farther" should only be used in reference to physical distances).
 
@JerryCoffin Ah, I see.
 
5:22 PM
@ThePhD what's the matter
 
ahaaaa
visitation was nice
 
@melak47 Only two more days to go till Monday :((
 
I got to explain a bunch of people why exactly we need 3 hundred PCs in one lab
 
@melak47 Just time. Time is always passing. And I'm always working on stuff.
 
BundleInstall Align, finally I have the Align plugin again :D
 
5:23 PM
@BartekBanachewicz 300 hundred pcs? wow
 
@ScottW Yeah, that's only useful for debugging. But you will see people using it for serious things, and that makes me cringe.
 
@melak47 um, in one lab. There are at least a few of that magnitude
 
@BartekBanachewicz Err.. how big is this lab, roughly? To the nearest square kilometer will do.
 
Also TIL we use fiber optics to communicate labs to each other
 
@BartekBanachewicz a lab with 30k pcs?
 
5:24 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I only use it for debugging. :O
 
wait. wait.
What a terrible typo @melak47 @Martin
I know I know
 
lol
 
You know, if I didn't have the R., I would get pings for @Martin and vice-versa. I'm glad.
 
the whole site might have 30k PCs, yeah
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes who's Martin
 
5:25 PM
but the labs have a few hundred each
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Me too :)
 
OKAY
Back to working out how rendering and shit is going to work.
 
people do that? just ping @someth when @something is just a tab away?
 
@melak47 full @R.MartinhoFernandes or @MartinJames sounds too official
 
5:27 PM
@melak47 I have seen people using @R. before...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes @MartinJames ?!
 
(which doesn't work because plinks require three characters)
 
@Bar
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes So that guy R. would never be pinged if he chat here?
 
5:28 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes aha! :)
 
@Rap would ping me?!
 
@StackedCrooked And if you're talking about your daddy, it should be "father".
 
@TonyTheLion
 
@The is even better
 
That's horrible! I don't want to be associated with rap.
 
5:28 PM
@R.M change your name to RobotMartin? :D
 
@Fre
 
@Rapptz It's "R..", because there's a minimum limit of three characters in your name.
@melak47 And then a Rob comes along...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh. I never noticed the third period
 
but but, @Robot :)
 
@FredOverflow but only for physical interactions?
 
5:29 PM
Change your name to @[banana][banana][banana]Rest
 
@Rap your best chance is to give no fucks
 
@The
 
did you figure out why "=+" worked!?
 
5:29 PM
@Rapptz Let us all use only @Rap from now on!
 
@litb
^ Does that work?
 
i think it was a language extension?
 
Oh shut up.
 
5:30 PM
@JohannesSchaub-litb We love you.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes No!
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb isn't it = +?
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb huh? it works the same way as ==+
 
I want to try do the longest combo of lols
 
@BartekBanachewicz wait. ah right!
 
5:30 PM
@JohannesSchaub-litb please tell me you were kidding
 
how could I miss THAT! thanks
 
@ScottW do you really? you might not like what you see :)
 
@Rapptz You have two choices: either live with @Rap, or live with actual rap (as in, listen to it constantly...)
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb Have you heard about the ++==++ operator? As in a ++==++ b
 
5:31 PM
@JerryCoffin What's the second choice?
 
inb4
> Johannes Schaub is a world-reknowned expert in C++ who has contributed significant expertise to the standards committee itself
... my ass :) (jk)
 
@melak47 how can you code with all this mess?
 
@BartekBanachewicz He was kidding.
 
@Rapptz Rap is cool.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Listening to actual rap "music".
 
5:32 PM
@TonyTheLion not my room. I'm not that messy. (with my hardware)
 
@EtiennedeMartel Don't be a fool, wrap your tool?
 
@JerryCoffin That's not a choice.
 
@melak47 oh good
 
@Rapptz Not talking about that kind of rap.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh wait I forgot I can't sarcasm/irony.
 
5:32 PM
@Rap You can also make Phat Beats and play it to Anime.
 
void TestRef( DisplayObject& TestParam) {

If I have DisplayObjectContainer:DisplayObject how do I Cast TestParam into DisplayObjectContainer? I can't right?
 
@Grapes you don't cast.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Should be cooler. Dump rappers in liquid helium, that should be fine.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, it's definitely in the "surrender or die (slowly)" kind of choice.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Oh shut up, asshat.
 
5:32 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Chill out.
@BartekBanachewicz Grapes is cool.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh, sorry then @Grapes
 
Someone with artistic talent should draw an ass hat
 
@Grapes Why would you want to cast? Call a virtual function.
 
@BartekBanachewicz See what you did? You judged a book by its cover.
 
@FredOverflow ohh WOW!
 
5:33 PM
Or a noob by his noobitude.
 
@Grapes You can, but it sounds like a job for a virtual function.
 
@EtiennedeMartel not changing profile pic is not my fault
 
@BartekBanachewicz It's always your fault. Always.
 
5:33 PM
Yeah I have a virtual function already
 
...
Can't
Can't bring myself to click that link.
 
Asshat?
 
just making heads and tails of smart pointers
 
@Grapes if you have virtual function yet still need to cast, design is bad
 
@Rapptz The guy looks like an ass.
 
5:34 PM
@Grapes But technically, of course you can cast. DisplayObjectContainer& foo = dynamic_cast<DisplayObjectContainer&>(TestParam);, but that will throw an exception if the dynamic type is wrong.
 
It's a cat gif.
 
@ThePhD Spoiler: it's a cat.
 
He's got that "I'm gonna be a jerkface" look about him.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Not casting for the method, I was thinking if I pass it elsewhere
 
@Grapes why can't you pass it as a base class? Do your classes satisfy LSP?
 
5:35 PM
Da fuq? Slightly NSFW
 
Ahahah, it's Tony from the Ministry of Sexual Matters.
 
@TonyTheLion Define "slightly".
 
Hmmm, chocolate.
 
I'm afraid to click links now. ;c
 
hm
 
5:35 PM
@EtiennedeMartel its a women in a bath full of chocolate
 
Domagoj put the healthy fear of 4chan in me.
 
I'll have to think of an example
 
@Grapes What virtual functions does DisplayObject have?
 
@ThePhD I don't do 4chan
 
@TonyTheLion If she's naked, potential yeast infection ?
 
5:36 PM
virtual void Test() override {
 
Well, if I say it is safe - It is safe. When I say unsafe, it's unsafe. When I say, like yesterday, very unsafe - then you probably don't want to click. :P
 
DisplayObject has virtual void Test()
 
More often than not, when you think you need dynamic cast, you actually need a richer base class.
 
@TonyTheLion The chocolate looks yummy.
 
Just fixed it, lulz
 
5:36 PM
@ThePhD WTF dude who cares about her health.
 
@ThePhD You're such a nice guy, thinking about infections.
 
@melak47 Imagine if some of it slipped up her vagina?
 
@Grapes That's all? I would have suspected a render or display method or whatever.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Nice people?
 
@ThePhD facepalm
 
5:37 PM
@FredOverflow oh, I am just writing a small test
 
I'm just sad she contaminated a perfectly fine tub of chocolate.
 
What!
 
Today I saw this somebar = dynamic_cast<bar*>(reinterpret_cast<other_bar*>(some_opaque_handle));
3
 
That'd feel gross.
 
@FredOverflow I am at work atm, so playing around with c++
 
5:37 PM
@ThePhD how would you know :p
 
@ThePhD Why are you even thinking of it?
 
@DomagojPandža The tub was probably contaminated to begin with.
 
@ThePhD I don't want to know how you know. :P
 
@TonyTheLion NSFW
 
@Grapes You play at work? :)
 
5:38 PM
@FredOverflow Don't we all?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes
 
@TonyTheLion Gawd.
 
I cried a little when I saw it
 
100GB is not enough for system partition
 
5:38 PM
@CatPlusPlus 100.01 should be enough.
 
There. 'Cause I'm evil.
 
@CatPlusPlus what are you running, windows 9000?
 
@TonyTheLion well, it's an opaque handle, so why not?
 
@CatPlusPlus I have 16 GB for system partition, but only because 16 is a nicer number than 10. I was always satisfied with 10 in the past :)
 
@FredOverflow Anyway, I guess my question is. You can accept a DisplayObject* in a method and dynamic_cast it into DisplayObjectContainer*. Can you do something similar with variables passed by ref?
 
5:39 PM
@melak47 Cat doesn't know what Windows looks like. :D
 
@Abyx meh
 
@Grapes I already told you, yes. Just cast to DisplayObjectContainer&.
 
@Grapes Yes. As a last resort you can even do a dynamic cast on &arg instead.
 
wonderful
thanks
 
I made this stupid 3 partition setup because I though "eh maybe I'll install Arch"
 
5:40 PM
@Grapes don't use (raw) pointers please
 
But downcasts are the antithesis of OO.
 
I don't
 
But then I installed it in VM because fuck dualbooting
 
Dynamic casting references throws on failure; with pointers it returns null.
 
@CatPlusPlus Note to Cat: You won't install Arch.
 
5:40 PM
@Grapes good. just making sure.
also note what robot said when casting
 
@CatPlusPlus 3?
 
behaviour with pointers and refs is different
 
y not 4dberg?
 
And now I have a system partition that has 20GB left, a partition with part of Visual Studio 2012 and MSSQL that has 90GB left and data partition that takes the rest
 
Ell
@EtiennedeMartel the cover is the first impression you get of anyone
 
5:41 PM
Why so?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Instead of casting x to Derived&, he could also cast &x to Derived* :)
 
1 min ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@Grapes Yes. As a last resort you can even do a dynamic cast on &arg instead.
 
Windows directory is 37GB :v:
 
yep
 
5:41 PM
@DomagojPandža Just a lucky guess, is all.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes slow me
 
@Ell But it's a very poor indicator.
 
ITT: Cat masturbatin' partitions
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes OS, OS, crap
 
Both Program Fileses is 17GB total
 
5:42 PM
My Linux system partition uses about 4GB now.
 
@TonyTheLion Masturbatin'.
 
Users is 8GB so even moving this won't do anything
 
I am writing a cross-platform c++ engine for mobile games
 
I broke down my hard drive into chunks of 40 GB, and LVMed all but the first two.
 
hiberfil.sys is 12GB ;v:
 
5:42 PM
@FredOverflow that's... minimalistic
 
@CatPlusPlus turn off hibernation :D
 
using opengles 1.0 and directx for windows/windows phone
 
Naw, I hibernate all the time
 
Explains a lot
 
@CatPlusPlus get an SSD, then the speed difference won't matter :3
 
5:42 PM
I have an annoying power LED that blinks with neon blue light when system is in sleep mode
 
When the Windows bits get full I just grab the next chunk out of the LVM volume group and extend the second NTFS partition over it.
 
I have very strong c# background, but just learning c++ and all it's tricks
 
@rubenvb 3.8GB to be exact :)
 
I don't care about speed, I don't want to reopen all the shit I have open
 
@Grapes please use 2.0
 
5:43 PM
@CatPlusPlus I would like to hibernate, but VMware explodes on resuming :((
 
@CatPlusPlus Kill it!
 
@Grapes Is it very stronk?
 
When I run out of space I copy shit to my NAS
 
virtually everything supports ES 2.0 now
 
Does it even lift?
 
5:43 PM
@CatPlusPlus My DVD drive LED is so annoying that I cannot watch a movie without putting something in front of the LED. The whole room is blinking otherwise :)
 
@BartekBanachewicz I am using 1.1 since I am porting my c# engine
 
@DomagojPandža Puppy dog eyes. Deferred Rendering? <33
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Easier to hibernate than unscrew the case and unplug the cable
 
and have a lot of the code already done
 
@Grapes so don't port. Make it 2.0 :/
 
5:44 PM
@BartekBanachewicz: URL?
 
@CatPlusPlus Always vs once.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Why 2.0?
 
@CatPlusPlus duct tape :)
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit 9gag posted it on their Fb profile
@Grapes um.... shaders?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's the default button, doesn't make a difference if it's Sleep or Hibernate
 
5:45 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I don't use them though and I can't really do 2.0 because a bunch of phones don't support them
 
Press butan don't read butan
 
@Grapes define a bunch. As of now, more than 90% of Android supports 2.0. Apple supports it too. And 1.x is likely to be slower, because it's simulated on 2.0 backend on new devices
 
@CatPlusPlus Much butter.
 
Hmm, I just close the lid :P
 
5:45 PM
@BartekBanachewicz some people don't even have VBOs.. :(
 
Also 3.0 is coming
 
I don't know if extending system partition is safe I'm not good with computers
 
@BartekBanachewicz aha
 
@CatPlusPlus what OS :D
 
@Grapes So it's nonsense to even try to write something on that devices
 
5:46 PM
@FredOverflow Well, my Virtual Arch /usr is 2.8 GB. So I'd say that's still a lot :)
 
I don't have a lid, it's a powerful desktop :smugdog:
@melak47 Win7
 
@BartekBanachewicz Not every application requires 3 trillion fps and realistic water simulation
 
@BartekBanachewicz Sure, the actual code is very small, so when I have to go to 2.0 I can probably do it in a day. I already use interleaved vbos so it' easy for me to move
 
@CatPlusPlus I've never had it fuck up before
 
@CatPlusPlus I have done it more than once before and it works fine, even online.
 
5:46 PM
@ThePhD Soon™, it's a lot of grounds to cover. I've been working on something intense these days, I'll link it the article as soon as it's ready. ^^
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Cool
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Roawr. Not using VBO is like C++ without move semantics
 
@CatPlusPlus 'tis.
 
@BartekBanachewicz i.e. perfectly rational
 
Aww. Oky. :c
 
5:47 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit so image something really irrational and that will be OGL without VBOs
 
I don't think you can render anything with Core GL without VBO
 
@BartekBanachewicz Evading VBOs with the modern pipeline requires effort. :D
 
@Grapes why wait then?
@CatPlusPlus he was talking about ES 1.1
 
Please move to 2.0, whoever that is.
 
@DomagojPandža I would use uniforms :P
 
5:48 PM
Or moar.
 
@BartekBanachewicz 1.1 seems to do the job for my current game, I already have it working and it supports more devices at the moment for me.
 
ES 3.0 is super cool
@Grapes If you have a game you are making, ok. Just don't make more games on 1.1
 
why did the chicken cross the road?
 
Yes, MRTs. Can't wait to actually have an efficient deferred renderer on mobile devices. -.-
 
5:49 PM
Because north korea's missiles can't reach that far
 
Because it's effectively obsolete
@DomagojPandža And all the widely unsupported extensions are core!
 
@CatPlusPlus how large are you gonna make your system partition now?
 
like, uh, float textures :P
 
@BartekBanachewicz well I'll have to see. I would love to play around with some shaders
 
@melak47 I'll get rid of that second one and extend system to 200GB I guess
 
5:50 PM
@Grapes using fixed pipeline in 2013 is something that should really be avoided
 
@CatPlusPlus 200..lol, wow.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah, it's really a nagging feel when I have to query _APPLE extensions. Doesn't feel right.
 
I should've made one to begin with but now fuck changing drive letters everywhere
Fuck drive letters
 
@CatPlusPlus You suck.
 
5:50 PM
@DomagojPandža dude. I am writing a test for OES_shadow_samplers now. Now that is suckage
 
@BartekBanachewicz you are right, but the android market is too fragmented at the moment and I need maximum support
 
my partition is 80GB and barely even half full :)
 
> The example code in this class uses the OpenGL ES 2.0 APIs, which is the recommended API version to use with current Android devices. For more information about versions of OpenGL ES, see the OpenGL developer guide.
Android developer guide.
 
Who cares about ES 1.1 seriously
 
What's iOS on?
 
5:51 PM
It's old and fixed function
 
1.1 or 2.0 ?
 
@ThePhD 2.0
 
Probably 2.0
 
Anyone ever tried dynamic volumes on Windows?
 
5:51 PM
@ThePhD Barely 2.0, I hope this year will mark 3.0 in June.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I can show you my 140,000 users that don't have 2.0 on their device
 
Your "but" is completely misplaced. What you quote doesn't weaken the definition of those #defines whatsoever. -1 — Johannes Schaub - litb 13 mins ago
 
And WP7 is DX9, and WP8 is DX11...
 
@Grapes are you developing for africa or something?
 
Ell
SpaceSniffer is rgeat for visualising drive use :3
 
5:52 PM
Let's support developing countries by writing in ES 1.1
 
@BartekBanachewicz no, China is a huge market and their phones are very low quality
 
I've heard that before
@Grapes and with huge piracy ratio
 
@BartekBanachewicz what, China?
 
@BartekBanachewicz haha how laughable.
 
@Gra
That's true... but if they want to pirate my games go ahead
 
5:53 PM
@BartekBanachewicz The Android landscape is full old devices.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes to be honest, Intel released new phone for Africa and it supports 2.0
 
so far we had 1.2 million users in China and earned $0 fro it
 
To the point that Google launches compatibility libraries.
 
iOS wins for games, hands down. And actually charging for something.
 
iOS wins for pretty much everything actually.
 
5:53 PM
@BartekBanachewicz New stuff is quite irrelevant for this, isn't it? It does not displace the old stuff.
 
they say HTC One will support ES 3.0
 
That's basically what happens.
 
Android/Google "store" would force you to sell a dollar for 50c.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It does, as a matter of fact. You know, people throw away old phones
 
5:54 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Except anything that touches Objective-C
 
@BartekBanachewicz Android users don't run to the shops any time, wait whom?, launches a new version of their phone, like with Apple.
 
and when you can buy ES2.0 phone for I dunno, $99?
 
@BartekBanachewicz point is, 140k users downloaded my game this month using only opengl 1.1
 
@CatPlusPlus yeah, but Objective-C++ is a thing
 
that's 140k users I would've lost
 
5:55 PM
@BartekBanachewicz No, it's really not
Android requires only ES1.0 fyi
 
@CatPlusPlus Write the interface in Objective-C, tap into your C++ code, fire and forget.
 
I start with "forget"
 
@Grapes I see your point.
@DomagojPandža he is lost anyway. Don't forget cat doesn't understand the purpose of smartphone at all.
So I am not even trying.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Check numbers.
You will see stuff like 50% of devices still running 2.3 or something.
 
> Beginning with Android 2.2 (API Level 8), the framework supports the OpenGL ES 2.0 API specification.
 
@BartekBanachewicz It doesn't require 2.0 support from device
 
@BartekBanachewicz it supports opnegl 2.0 but doesn't require it
 
(I still wouldn't care but hey)
 
@BartekBanachewicz That only means you can compile code with the calls in it. It says nothing about it running.
 
Dem empty functions.
 
5:57 PM
(Just like I can compile code that targets OpenGL 4.3, and not run it because my drivers tell me to fuck off)
 
@BartekBanachewicz Milking money from people
 
@CatPlusPlus That's what I said : doesn't understand.
 
:lol:
I don't care about smartphones
 
21 secs ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
@CatPlusPlus That's what I said : doesn't understand.
 
Cat is just so lovable.
 
5:58 PM
It's a difference
 
@CatPlusPlus FINALLY
 
I hate my new smartphone. =[
 
Stats from Google.
 
You said "I don't care" instead of "Nobody cares".
2
 
5:58 PM
Also annoying beta Chrome context menu is now in release :/
 
WOOOOOHOOO
 
the reason I am moving to C++ is because I was using C# With Mono
 
fucking right click fuck
 
Note the salient Gingerbread.
 
but wp8 decided not to support xna
 
5:58 PM
FUCKING HELL I'M SO HAPPY RIGHT NOW
 
@EtiennedeMartel pft
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes which supports the API.
god dammit.
 
Gingerbread is 2.3, though, so it's API-Supported, but that doesn't mean it's running it.
 
Okay again
 
@BartekBanachewicz You think those people are running Gingerbread on the latest devices? hahahah
 
5:59 PM
@Grapes Why didn't you switch from C# to Java? ;-)
 
If you want to make shitty games for countries like China, cool, use 1.1
 
I'm willing to guess most people with an old 2.3-running phone don't have the latest hardware.
 
They are running Gingerbread on the old devices that cannot even upgrade further.
 
"nobody cares" is not literal because obviously that's not a provable statement but w/e
 
Ell
@DomagojPandža If only all of us could learn to love the cat :/
 
5:59 PM
If you want to make real games, use 2.0, because that's what fucking Google recommends
 
@EtiennedeMartel May we ask why?
 
@FredOverflow because "going native 2012"
 

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