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5:00 PM
yeah i was trying to do something like this
 
@Abyx It's C, what were you expecting?
 
dunno. unicorns maybe
 
user142019
@Abyx two-space indentation = kill author.
 
C is so dwarfish.
 
@DeadMG decent names, formatting, no else after return
 
fuck C anyway. and fuck all people who write new code in C today
 
Why are you 1. setting len to 0 ? 2. casting the char buffer to void * ?
 
Ell
@rightfold ...must...resisist urge... to start... tab vs space argument...
 
@Abyx Some platforms can't afford something better than C.
 
@Abyx Why shouldn't there be an else after return? The return is conditional.
 
5:06 PM
and fuck people who don't want to port their stuff to C++
 
@OsadaLakmal good questions xD
 
@ShadowsInRain fuck those platforms
 
C is simple and clean and you would be pretty stupid to suggest that C is inherently bad
 
@OsadaLakmal lolwot
C is the worst shit ever.
 
ahaha
 
Ell
5:07 PM
it's portable assembly
 
it has basically absolutely no useful features whatsoever.
 
Ell
Would you write a large scale program in assembly?
@DeadMG How about being able to add numbers together? :P
 
@DeadMG because it's redundant. if (c) return x; {} is the same as if (c) return x; else {}
 
@Abyx Cool down. You haven't programmed in Pawn...
 
Ell
Or many of the other obviously good features
 
5:08 PM
@ShadowsInRain yep, I don't even know what is it. and I don't wanna know
 
@Abyx True, I guess. I don't add such else myself.
 
I guess you have read Codes at work. if so remember any one of them saying they preferred C++ over C ? gigamonkeys.wordpress.com/2009/10/16/coders-c-plus-plus
 
@Abyx It's like castrated C. Virtual machine, no pointers, only integers and floats, no structs, almost no macros.
 
unless you mean to say that you are a better programmer than jwz you would have to defend what you said :)
 
@OsadaLakmal The opinion of one blogger is irrelevant.
 
5:10 PM
Dude - its not one blogger. its jwz
 
you are using an appeal to authority fallacy.
the author is irrelevant.
 
ken thompson
brenden eich
 
if you had the slightest idea about logic, you would know that naming names is not going to advance your position
 
Do you even know what "coders at work" was ?
 
was it a scientific study published in a peer-reviewed journal?
 
5:12 PM
@OsadaLakmal Yet another noname blog?
 
because if not, then I don't care
 
haha. Ok so guys who have each invented a language used by millions of programmers dont know much. but you do
 
you're missing the point
if I raise a point, they have no way to counteract it, since they're not here.
you can't engage in a logical debate with a name.
 
@OsadaLakmal That is not argument to original discussion.
 
that's why namedropping cannot be used to inform logical debate.
and their achievements in fields of languages that are not C++ are irrelevant.
 
5:13 PM
i am saying trash-talking C is not a logical discussion. its trash-talk
 
that would be true if we didn't have plenty of rational reasons to hate C.
 
Ell
I'm gonna go ahead and say a c compiler is significantly easier to write than a c++ one
 
user142019
Yes, but C is also a significantly simpler language than C++.
 
@Ell Crosscompiling.
 
What is wrong with C inherently in your opinion ? "fuck C anyway. and fuck all people who write new code in C today" - that was the discussion that you were referring to ?
 
user142019
5:15 PM
C is obsolete just like Java.
2
 
Ell
@rightfold which is why it's not such a bad thing to use it for simple applications
 
user142019
There are superior alternatives.
 
I will never understand the premise of movies and games where people find alien propulsion technology and use it without understanding it and then issue laws that prohibit against actually trying to understand them.
 
Ell
@ShadowsInRain fair point
 
C++ is not a superior alternative to C
 
5:15 PM
@OsadaLakmal No, that's what Abyx said, not what I have said.
 
LOL, I wake up to see someone arguing with the puppy over C... well...
 
it is a completely different language
 
user142019
@OsadaLakmal Tell me how.
 
@OsadaLakmal You're right- it actually has features that do things.
unlike C.
 
user142019
They can both do the same things, hence they're each others' alternatives.
 
5:16 PM
Especially C++11
 
@OsadaLakmal You came to the wrong neighbourhood, motherfucker.
4
 
^ that
 
May be just trolling.
 
user142019
inb4 flag
 
@Ell You'll get it right, don't worry. <3
 
Ell
5:17 PM
@ThePhD I just figured out it was my image loading code
 
The only things that C and C++ share is the algol syntax
 
Ell
:(
 
Ah.
 
And half of the C libraries.
 
aka curly braces
 
5:18 PM
Well, this is why you use Boost.GIL
 
user142019
C++ has many features that C has.
 
or FreeImage
Or Write your own. <3
 
Ell
I'm using FreeImage
GIL is for image processing, not loading!
But I'm failing even at freeimage xD
 
Is it?
 
Ell
Yeah
 
user142019
5:18 PM
GIL?
 
user142019
You mean PIL?
 
Generic Image Library
 
user142019
Oh. Okay. :P
 
Ell
^ (its in boost)
 
^ Apparently it's a thing, Kbok posted it before
 
5:19 PM
ever heard the phrase "C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do it blows your whole leg off." ?
 
user142019
Everyone did.
 
@rightfold Python 2 user spotted.
 
user142019
@Morwenn I'm a Python 3 user.
 
That is why C is much better in some cases. In some cases of course c++ yeilds much better usage
 
@rightfold My bad then. All my apologies.
 
user142019
5:20 PM
@OsadaLakmal It is?
 
@OsadaLakmal Your "why" is a quote?
you need to learn2argument
 
@rightfold By that notion lisp is an alternative to C :)
 
user142019
(I don't know Lisp.)
 
@OsadaLakmal C is almost subset of C++.
 
aha but you wont code in C++ in that subset would you ?
 
5:21 PM
* C89
 
of course not
that would be coding in C, and C is awful.
 
@OsadaLakmal Because I have no need to do so.
 
user142019
No. I'd use decent shit like std::vector instead of malloc and realloc and free and pointers.
 
Generic programming in C is horrible.
 
you would be crazy to use printf when you have iostream. They serve different purposes. C is used for the simplicity
@Morwenn There is no generic programming in C
 
user142019
5:22 PM
I use std::printf pretty often.
 
user142019
Boost.Format is even better, though.
 
user142019
Since it's type-safe.
 
is std::printf variadic ?
Or just C's printf in disguise ?
 
user142019
@ThePhD It's the same as C's printf, so yeah.
 
C's printf and no disguise.
 
5:22 PM
@OsadaLakmal _Generic
 
user142019
@Morwenn that's not generic programming.
 
@DeadMG It's got std:: on it. Disguise!
 
user142019
_Generic is just overloading.
 
@OsadaLakmal The simplicity of having to do everything yourself and getting it wrong repeatedly, as opposed to having the compiler do it for you and get it right?
 
generic programming in c++ is done through templates. How are you going to do templates in C ?
 
5:23 PM
@rightfold void* generic; :P
 
@rightfold Well, macro hacks then :D
 
@DeadMG Ok, give me an example of a case where c++ compiler does something for you when C compiler does not?
 
user142019
RAII.
 
the most obvious being RAII
 
5:24 PM
@OsadaLakmal Why you stuck to this single definition of generic programming?
 
Level: terrible.
 
C++ guarantees the correct cleanup of all resources with unique_ptr and shared_ptr.
 
user142019
Move and copy.
 
C leaves you to overflow your buffers, double-free, use-after-free, and all such things.
 
user142019
Range-based for loops.
 
5:25 PM
Functions overloading then.
 
... Oh yeah
THere is no function overloading in C, is there?
 
@ThePhD _Generic
 
I remember that shit when I was working with my calculator. =l Fucking nightmare, that's what that was.
 
@DeadMG gcc has a cleanup attribute ?
@ThePhD there is
 
@ThePhD tgmath.h also. But you don't know how before C11.
 
5:26 PM
gcc != C
 
that's not C, that's GCC. Completely different.
and secondly, gcc's cleanup is nowhere near as powerful as RAII.
 
@DeadMG are we talking about compilers or languages ?
i am talking about a compiler
are you ? :p
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hiiiiiiiiiiii <3
 
Talk about argumenting...
 
5:27 PM
and other people accuse me of moving the goalposts.
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: No longer Saturday. [c++] [c++11] [no-helpdesk]
@DeadMG Well, he appears to be trolling.
 
Ell
I'm confused, I don't know if freeimage supporst rgba bgra or not :O
 
=l
 
Ehem, How was that deduced ?
 
Of course it supports RGBA.
What the hell image library doesn't support RGBA.
 
5:32 PM
@OsadaLakmal Suddenly changing topic — isn't trolling or something?
 
Ell
Not that I'm going to use that, but I don't get le library
I need to start writing tests :3
 
Oh no! It's still Monday!
 
What was the change in topic again ? @DeadMG told me i couldnt post something that c++ compiler did for you which c compiler did not
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes what test framework do you use?
 
And i did post it. And if this was trolling I would be out of here by now
 
5:34 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Parle moins, bois plus.
 
@OsadaLakmal I have no idea what you're talking about, or what your point is.
 
@OsadaLakmal Because it was topic about abstract compiler, not about GCC?
 
@ShadowsInRain Oh and generic programming doesnt have multiple definitions, it has one
 
@OsadaLakmal Everybody understood "things that the compiler is required to do for you". Moreover, you did not specify any compiler when asking.
 
5:35 PM
@EtiennedeMartel I am just replying to this chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/9105817#9105817
and other related trash talk
 
@OsadaLakmal So...? Are you trying to say C still has its uses?
 
Correction I am saying C still has its uses
 
@OsadaLakmal So wikipedia is lying?
 
Of course it does. C still dominates embedded development, and there's a truckload of legacy code you have to maintain.
 
lol, this is funny.
 
5:36 PM
What year did Cobol become mainstream?
 
The only reason I'd ever use C is because C++ isn't supported in that environment. The only other reason is legacy code and psychos in suits.
 
plus someone may want to suggest we rewrite linux kernel with c++ to linux
*linus
 
@OsadaLakmal That again.
 
They already took GCC from C to C++.
 
5:37 PM
Why would you want to rewrite something if it works?
 
Ell
Refactoring?
 
So it's not like it's impossible. :P
 
Ell
but I see with "don't fix whats' not broken"
 
Nobody's talking about taking some perfectly working C code and turning it into C++.
 
No, what i am referring to is the policy of linus of not allowing c++ in the kernel code
 
5:38 PM
The kernel has no C++?
 
That's Linus' personal choice.
 
@OsadaLakmal Do you know why? Because he's prejudiced.
 
eh
 
Not reflective of the use / greatness of C.
 
let's just plonk this guy and move on
 
5:38 PM
Every time there's a discussion about that, he never brings up actual rational arguments.
 
Ell
linus accepts c++ in the kernel now
Iirc
 
It's always "C programmers are just better, so fuck C++".
 
Do you even C? :P
 
user142019
@Ell what of course not.
 
No that is exactly because of the reason you posted. kernel code deals with hardware and when you write that close to the metal it becomes a hindrance
 
5:39 PM
C++ has plenty of issues, but he never talk about those.
 
exceptions make your code non-reentrant for one
 
user142019
The biggest one is the C part.
 
user142019
The ++ part isn't too bad.
 
@OsadaLakmal What's stopping you from using a kernel-friendly subset of C++?
 
oh c++ has issues alright. I am very aware of that
 
Ell
5:40 PM
@rightfold meh. I remembered wrong
 
which subset would you suggest ?
 
user142019
@Ell GCC, probably.
 
@OsadaLakmal lol
 
Ell
Ahh yes
 
@OsadaLakmal Whatever fixes the problem you're trying to fix?
 
Ell
5:40 PM
How about this argument: c++ has no abi! (idk :L )
 
I don't know, I never worked on a kernel.
 
This argument is teh lulz.
 
@Ell It has no standard ABI. But each implementation has one.
 
lets get rid of exceptions outright. And virtual tables inflate code size when compiled. so lets get rid of virtual dispatching
 
user142019
Hahaha.
 
5:41 PM
lol
 
Oh noo
 
and templates make the code bloated again. so no generics
4
 
~Purrrrformance~
 
He almost said bloat.
 
Ell
@EtiennedeMartel yeah - but we are talking about the language, not the implementation aren't we?
 
user142019
5:41 PM
Hahahaha.
 
Oh, wait, he did.
 
user142019
I'm starring it for everyone to laugh at.
2
 
@Ell I'm guessing nobody would give a shit about standardese when working on a kernel.
 
Go down that road and you are probably let with C11
 
Ell
@EtiennedeMartel oh yah right sorry
 
user142019
Go troll somewhere else.
 
@OsadaLakmal Maybe. I'll keep that in mind if I ever try to create a kernel from scratch.
 
C11 is so great that no compiler really supports it.
 
Ah look at all that non-bloat~
 
user142019
clang supports parts of C11.
 
5:42 PM
@rightfold Yeah, parts.
 
@OsadaLakmal But C11 without _Generic because bloat.
 
I mean, writing kernels is by far the most common application for programming languages.
4
 
By far
 
user142019
Nobody writes kernels.
 
My next video game? Gonna be in C because bloat.
 
5:43 PM
@EtiennedeMartel That was never his point.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm strawmanning.
 
That's what I said.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Can @Crowz come sit on you? <3
 
@ThePhD Urgh.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I think League of Legends is written in C.
 
5:44 PM
Not that guy.
 
The worst part is League of Legends is starting to suffer from it's massive hard-coded C codebase.
 
@ThePhD League of Legends was written badly regardless of the language... I don't know how many times they broke champions by introducing new ones.
 
@ThePhD I'm pretty sure it's in C++.
 
@Borgleader See precious chat message. :P
 
5:44 PM
Anivia's walls? Minions with a new skin >.>
 
I mean, they hire C++ programmers.
 
Xeo
Yay, finally managed to finish SAO Vol 11
 
@EtiennedeMartel The engine and a lot of the stuff was in C to start with. I read it on their startup page.
 
@EtiennedeMartel To torture them with their lack of bloat!
 
Xeo
Also, robot, puppy, y u no answer :|
 
5:45 PM
However, I read it like, a year ago
 
@Xeo wat
 
It might be C++ now.
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: The most bloated room on Stack Overflow. [c++] [c++11] [no-helpdesk]
 
Lounge<Bloat++> The most generic room on SO :P
 
Xeo
5:46 PM
2 hours ago, by Xeo
But OTOH, maybe I'm just losing track of where I want to go with []stuff. Thoughts? /cc @DeadMG, @LucDanton, @R.MartinhoFernandes
 
Anyway. C isn't dead. It's just highly specialized now.
 
Xeo
Right above there.
 
for(;;) bloat();
 
@Borgleader you forgot the namespace
 
Xeo
Or did the ping not reach you for some reason?
 
5:46 PM
@ThePhD If you want to see terrible code, look at your average game. Doesn't prove much more than that many game developers are conservative cargo cult programmers who think their code magically becomes faster if they write it in a crappier language, and that learning to use new language features is going to slow it down.
5
sad, but true
 
@Xeo I'm not doing any serious thinking today, sorry.
 
Mar 27 at 15:00, by Etienne de Martel
@jalf Purrformance is the #1 reason why people write bad code in the games industry.
 
Xeo
lol. Robot's transforming into a Partyrobot.
 
@EtiennedeMartel exactly my point. pointlessly trashing languages is a stupid move. each language has its place and its use. trash talking a language is just plain idiocy
 
@OsadaLakmal PHP doesn't
:)
 
5:47 PM
@OsadaLakmal You mean @rightfold is an idiot? No shit, Sherlock.
 
@Xeo I'm not partying.
(Also, it's my birthday, so fuck off)
12
 
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel What did he say about me?!
 
@rightfold HIHIHI
 
user142019
> checks transcript
 
Fuck this past week's favourite colour.
 
5:48 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Oh you guys already know that ? someone should have told me :D
 
user142019
Oh haha.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Alles Gute zum Geburtstag!
 
@rightfold It all started with you claiming C was obsolete.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes :O How would I know?
 
user142019
C is obsolete.
 
5:48 PM
@Xeo As I said previously, you should just ditch members until you have a decent scheme for looking them up.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Really?
REALLY?
 
SHIT CAKE DUDE, YOU COULD HAVE SAID SO EARLIER.
 
user142019
Time for a new topique.
 
user142019
And balloons!
 
5:49 PM
Tropiques.
 
@Xeo stalking his SO profile on a daily basis :P
 
Xeo
lol
 
user142019
@Morwenn I find Git's source code very clean and readable, actually.
 
5:50 PM
@rightfold Haha, it would be sad if every C coder was unable to produce clear code!
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, in any case, "Alles Gute!" then, I guess :)
 
dont blame the language, blame the programmer :)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Happy 🎂 day :)
 
any body can write crap in any language
 
Xeo
If the language gives you no features to write clean code, well...
 
5:52 PM
^ this
 
@OsadaLakmal Except for PHP.
There, crap is mandatory.
 
user142019
PHP is fun.
 
HA ha yep, that is one bashing i will gladly join in. Firefly style
 
If your PHP code isn't crappy enough, then the interpreter refuses to execute it.
2
 
Writing crap in some languages takes skill, so not anybody can do it.
 
5:53 PM
@OsadaLakmal A while ago, you talked about Linus and C++. Linus said he hated C++ for the mere fact that all C coders were good and all C++ coders were crappy. This example was just to prove he was so right on this point.
 
Ell
Meh. Catch isn't defining its own main for some reason
 
The one and only language which ships with unit tests in the code module still ailing
 
user142019
You need to define a macro.
 
fuuuu
 
user142019
Also, its*.
 
5:53 PM
clang codegen errors :(
 
user142019
YES :D
 
@EtiennedeMartel Stop being funny I'm running out of fucks stars to give
 
Ell
ahhh that's how it's supposed to be layed out xD
 
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel PHP should execute the programmer instead of the code.
14
 
Ell
5:54 PM
I've forgotten how to spell too
 
@Ell Oh hey fellow catch user !
 
@rightfold But then, how is the PHP Programmer Council supposed to meet its monthly crap quotas?
 
user142019
C.
 
I think you're on to something.
 
user142019
I'm evil.
 
user142019
5:56 PM
I'm going to destroy the world.
 
Programmer jokes. Shitty enough to make you laugh...
 
user142019
Muhahahahahahahahahahaha.
 
btw anybody ever looked into false sharing on cores sharing a socket ?
i.e. L1 not shared by L2 is ?
 

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