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12:00 AM
@TonyTheLion Found one that's close enough (int instead of char, but that's irrelevant).
 
bool cake = false;
 
have_your_cake && eat_it_too
 
@FredOverflow link it
Also, I just learned there is something called Wiener Retriever
 
@EvgenyPanasyuk Oh you're right, I missed dependency on d connecting the blocks.
 
12:05 AM
so, if it is possible interleave several calls in parallel - it may speed-up
 
behold! the double_doubleround_sse: gist.github.com/nightcracker/5475256
 
I'd actually recommend interleaving 3 or 4 calls.
 
oh woops, there's a mistake I made using replace and find - fixing
 
@nightcracker Make the variable names the same length and it becomes pretty.
 
( _mm_a2d2d2_epi32)
I actually wrote a python script for it :P
 
12:09 AM
Yeah!
You've passed loop unrolling 101
 
lol
 
If you're on x64, there's enough registers to go up to 4-way.
 
thanks x-zibit for unrolling my loop!
 
Loop unrolling 201 is more complicated. It involves offsetting your unrolled iterations so they don't all do the same type of instruction at the same time.
But that's 201, not 101.
 
@Mysticial well, I only have two doublerounds to execute in parallel at a time
 
12:11 AM
@Mysticial is it possible to optimize templates with SSE instructions?
 
@Borgleader yes
 
(lets say I have a Vector3D template)
 
doubleround_sse can be unrolled with structs + functions instead of boilerplate
 
well that didn't help much
from 5.5 cycles per byte I went down to 5.3
 
wut
 
12:13 AM
Well, I'm back home. The outside world didn't suck, but it didn't impress either.
 
haha, where dyu go?
 
@nightcracker how many cycles double_doubleround_sse takes?
 
user142019
Dammit.
 
user142019
The only episode 25 I can find on YouTube that has decent quality is in German. :(
 
better learn german
 
12:15 AM
Anybody done Android Dev?
 
someone upboat Jaigus' message on the starboard as a warning to others ;)
 
@EvgenyPanasyuk 51
 
@Borgleader Picked up the guitar, rolled up a few people and y'know. The actual official entertainment sucks, as usual.
 
this is getting weirder and weirder
 
@nightcracker note, you doubled operations count, and have approximatly same cycles
 
12:16 AM
yeh
 
@nightcracker You doubled your OP count and saved 2 cycles... haha
Now you probably fucked up the way you called it?
:)
 
that makes me think that GCC DID do a good job on optimizing the previous doubleround_sse
as in, interleaving
but that still doesn't explain why runtime decreases linearly with every doubleround_sse I comment out
 
Then something is wrong with the calling code.
 
nope, not 51 cycles
 
oh
 
12:19 AM
my profile was wrong because I didn't write out the second set of vectors
 
what is it?
 
so it got optimized out
 
ahaha
 
that doesn't change much
 
12:20 AM
@nightcracker maybe other parts of calling code are optimzed away too, when you comment call
try to mesure performance of something like:
`for(...) { doubleround_sse(...); doubleround_sse(...); doubleround_sse(...); doubleround_sse(...); }
where inputs are independed
 
ok
hmm
there does seem to be some parallelism used
one doubleround_sse takes 50 cycles
 
@Mysticial btw, what about AVX? does it gives same IPC for integers?
 
two sit around 66.50151
 
@EvgenyPanasyuk AVX adds nothing for integers.
 
I wish I had XOP so I could use rotate
but sadly I don't
 
12:25 AM
Hello, Tired World!
 
I even wish more for an ARX (add-rotate-xor) instruction
 
@Mysticial AVX2 then
 
@EvgenyPanasyuk yeah
I'd wish they add SIMD 64 x 64 bit multiplies though
 
@rightfold Y U CHANGE UR HANDLE?
@rightfold Y U CONFUSE PPL?
 
I dont see throughput/latency for AVX2 stuff in intel intrinsincs guide
 
12:26 AM
@EvgenyPanasyuk me neither
 
@EvgenyPanasyuk I usually use Agner Fog's numbers.
Which won't exist yet until the hardware goes retail.
 
@Mysticial wow, I didn't know this, thanks!
 
@nightcracker Didn't know what?
 
@Mysticial these manuals by agner fog
 
oh
ahaha, they're pretty good
 
12:32 AM
well I'm calling it a day on this doubleround - probably not worth my and your time
(it is for a homebrew cryptographic primitive I thought of which in the end turned out to not have the performance I hoped for, so it's a loss-loss situation)
 
By the way it sounds, there's still a lot to squeeze from it. You just haven't hit the right spot yet.
 
if anyone is interested, it's a 32-bit variant of the ChaCha cipher and siphash combined into authenticated encryption
@Mysticial I'm not so sure
@Mysticial if you consider there are 4 parallel double doublerounds and 2 doublerounds in the main loop, and add them with the previous timings you get 4 * 66 + 2 * 50 = 364
which is actually MORE than the 350 which I measure before
 
more than the single doubleround?
 
@Mysticial could you rephrase that?
 
As in, your "double doubleround" didn't help at all.
 
12:39 AM
Damn, I have to justify my report about GCC warning for int spurious = 0; f(pack + spurious...);. Weird.
 
Since your "doubleround" gives 350, and your "double doubleround" gives 364?
 
@Mysticial ah your confused
 
ok :)
 
@Mysticial 364 is the combined measurement of a seperate profile of 4 double_doublerounds and 2 doublrounds
@Mysticial 350 is the measurement of the actual encryption code, using simply chained doubleround calls, so GCC did optimize it correctly
 
ah
 
12:40 AM
that is, if 66 cycles for two doublerounds is the theoretical maximum
 
I'd have to take a closer look at Agner's tables. You might be able to get something out of 3 or 4-way unroll since there are 3 execution units. Right now you only have 2 chains.
I'm not sure if GCC is willing or able to do that much interleaving.
 
@Mysticial well, I only have 2 things to execute in parallel, really
 
oh
 
@Mysticial the bottleneck becomes the speed at which the MAC (message authentication code) can be generated, since that's not arbitrarily parallelizable
 
ah
 
12:43 AM
encryption blocks can be parallelized arbitrarily, because that's how stream ciphers work
(or at least should work)
 
how do you use %=
 
so right now I have there's 80 integer operations and 12 shuffles in 66 cycles, not sure if I can do muchbetter
@Johann context? what are you trying to do?
 
FYI, I just noticed that msvc2012 optimizes AVX intrinsics better than msvc2010
 
@EvgenyPanasyuk well msvc2012 is simply too ugly for words
 
in C++ what does the special operator %= mean. Obviously it is for assignment, but how to use it.
 
12:44 AM
@Johann it's not assignment.
 
Modulos.
?
 
@Johann a %= b means the same as a = a % b, and % is the modulo operator
 
oh
 
Same for +=, -=, etc.
 
(inb4 ==)
 
12:45 AM
@nightcracker What processor are you using?
 
@Mysticial Intel Pentium B970
 
dafuq
 
@nightcracker how is a compiler ugly? :)
 
@melak47 darn it got me, VS2012 is too ugly :D
 
I agree that VS2012 is fugly. But there's a way to turn off the caps.
 
12:47 AM
really, fire that design team
 
I just don't like VS.
 
@nightcracker meh. eclipse is worse :D
 
... if you guys dont use VS just because of the all caps titles you're retarded
 
@melak47 there's a reason I rock with sublime text 2 and occasionally vim
@Borgleader I'm more in conflict with the retarded new metro style
 
ugh metro
 
12:47 AM
get used to it, it's everywhere :P
 
@Borgleader I'd rather switch to mac
 
@nightcracker 2010 was no beauty either
 
@Borgleader actually scrap that
 
@nightcracker have fun wasting money
 
@Borgleader I guess Ubuntu will have to do until windows 10 or smt
@melak47 well it wasn't beautiful, but at least it wasn't this frigging alien
 
12:49 AM
@nightcracker do you really think they'll stick to numbering their windows? :p
 
basically all bad software that is widely used can be summarized by a dealwithit.gif
 
@melak47 no, Windows Desktop Masterclass Bussiness Enterprise Pro Edition 2 Deluxe Revised Editors Cut will be next version
 
or maybe they'll do a reboot and call it just "windows", all lowercase
 
@nightcracker + RTM Release
 
Ah, Roller Coaster Tycoon fucks up Chrome.
 
12:51 AM
Nah it'll be New Super Windows U
 
iWindows
 
@Borgleader It's never really a "waste".
 
by Microapple
 
It depends on how much value you derive from a product.
 
I meant waste as you can buy an equivalently powerful PC for much less
 
12:53 AM
@Mysticial well, since my idea didn't really work I guess I'm off to implementing this efficiently :P
 
@nightcracker SSE shifts are horrifically slow on Nehalem. You can probably do better with shuffles instead.
*for the rotations.
 
@Borgleader But you can't legally put OS X on something that's not a Mac.
 
@nightcracker s/Microapple/Micrapple FTFY
 
@EtiennedeMartel Pff they can sue me
 
@Mysticial I can only do that for the 16 bit shift, I think
 
12:54 AM
So, if you really want OS X, then there's no other way.
 
not that I would because fuck OSX
 
@Mysticial and not for the 12, 8 and 7 bit shift
 
Nobody's gonna know if you have OSX on non-OSX hardware unless the Apple Legal Team visits your house.
 
@nightcracker Oh right. I didn't see the other ones.
 
@Mysticial thanks for the effort, by the way
 
12:58 AM
np, I'd have to look at the whole thing to get anymore ideas.
 
@Mysticial if you're interested, simply look at the Salsa20 paper. ChaCha, the cipher I use, is simply a small variation on it to make it a bit cleaner (made by the same author, djb).
 
@EtiennedeMartel As if people want to.
(Other than the App store garbage, which by the way I'm still not sure how it's legal)
 
@nightcracker Oh... djb... big guy.
Don't expect to beat him that easily.
 
@Mysticial oh I know :)
 
user142019
1:16 AM
@ThePhD … which is why we have hard drive shredders. ^_^
 
I see Zoidberg is having an online identity crisis.
Ohai!
 
@DomagojPandža Nah he just changes names more often than he finishes a project
 
@Borgleader That doesn't say much though...
 
source?
 
@Borgleader Nah, it's not that bad.
I mean, he doesn't change names once a day.
 
1:23 AM
I said finish a project, not start
 
Waiting...
 
I thought you messed that one up.
And I assumed you meant "start".
You were really talking about finishing?
 
Yeah, I was making a joke on how many projects he actually finishes
aka none
 
Resuming execution...
 
1:25 AM
Lol.
Etienne's brain had to block for that function call. :P
 
FUCKED UP.
 
AHGL is on
 
I think I dropped a packet.
 
Guise. I need sleeps.
 
the hormones are strong with this one
5
 
1:28 AM
guilty
 
Damn, you've accumulated more stars than Scott W stds.
 
wait
stds in programming terms or in...
oh
 
My record is 20 somthing stars on the starboard at a time
 
std -- coming to a pussy near you.
 
strangest misunderstanding of history
 
1:30 AM
std::copy
 
everyone gets a star
 
Don't do that. :(
 
Johann is the Oprah of the lounge: You get a star, you get a star, you get a star, everybody gets a star.
 
have a star sweet thing
 
Lol
 
1:31 AM
@Mysticial Clean this shit up, plx.
 
which ones should stay?
Just the one with 6 stars?
 
Just the hormones, I guess.
 
yep :)
 
yeah
 
1:31 AM
I already cleaned up the boring ones.
 
The starboard should have some... Uhm... Prestige.
 
I guess it was... STAR WARS
#badpunsaturday
is control flow the same as a logical operation
 
The flow that controls is not the same as flow that is controlled.
 
@Borgleader Reminds me of Axton in Borderlands 2.
> YOU get a bullet! And YOU get a bullet! EVERYBODY gets a bullet!
 
flowception
 
user142019
 
@rightfold Which episode?
 
user142019
Episode 1 and 2 of season 3.
 
Oh. "The Crystal Empire".
 
user142019
But basically, every episode in which she has to do something for the princess.
 
1:41 AM
i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/list/000/526/037/2bb.jpg I hate when this happens on forums and chat sites.
 
@Mysticial do you have experience with multiword arithmic (I'd guess you have seeing the pi record, but I'm not sure)
 
user142019
@Johann Banning is an effective measure against trolls.
 
@nightcracker yes
 
@rightfold TIL
i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/list/000/526/357/bb0.gif Oprah unleashes her secret weapon.
 
user142019
Let em troll for a while, and when they're having real fun… PERMABAN!
 
user142019
1:42 AM
Muhahahahaha.
 
I think hellbanning is much more effective, because then you're certain they won't come back.
 
what is hellbanning?
 
Time to watch Bladerunner again :3
 
user142019
Hellbanning is a practice used by some online community managers for protecting a community against Internet trolls. The practice involves making a user invisible to all other users. From the hellbanned user's perspective, however, they seem to be participating normally in the community. The purpose of hellbanning is to make it impossible for other users to respond to a particular user by rendering their contributions invisible and thereby enforcing the community best practice of "not feeding trolls." Software developer and Stack Overflow co-founder Jeff Atwood describes a theoretical use ...
 
@Mysticial you might get bother by me from time to time then :P
 
1:43 AM
no problem :)
 
user142019
It mentions Stack Overflow! :> :> :>>>>>>>>>>>
 
genius
wait is that a pratice on SO?
 
user142019
It's basically, autoplonk.
 
@Johann nope
except for flags
 
user142019
How's Alf doing by the way?
 
user142019
1:44 AM
Is he already unbanned?
 
Interesting.
 
If you flag like shit, your flags will eventually be ignored. But otherwise no, there's no hellbanning on SO.
 
Yet :D
 
user142019
Room owners should be able to ban peop… nah I'd have been banned long ago from Lounge<C++>.
 
user142019
You know.
 
1:45 AM
@rightfold Why would we ban you? There are MUCH bigger fish to fry in this room.
 
user142019
I very rarely visited the C# room and a few days ago some guy suddenly made me a room owner. xD
 
who is this "Alf" gulp
@rightfold how did you get banned from here. This is the chillest place on SE chat.
 
user142019
@Johann A long-time regular who suddenly just disappeared from the Lounge and some time ago he got banned on Stack Overflow but nobody here knows why.
 
this is the beginnings of a cyberpunk horror story
@rightfold
 
user142019
1:47 AM
@Mysticial Because I change my name and avatar all the time. :P
 
@rightfold That's not a reason to ban you.
 
user142019
Wow, I've been away for two days and you guys are suddenly nice!
 
Hm.
I don't like Herb's monitor / wrap type.
It doesn't feel complete.
 
I'm Gumpified
 
Using functors to do the access and work is.. .. strange/
 
user142019
1:49 AM
I tried the C# room for a few days but got bored.
 
user142019
People ask programming questions there. It's a nightmare.
 
well I ask programming questions here as well
 
me too
and most people
 
user142019
They talk about arcane magic like DI and IoC and abstract classes and EF and DAL and DAO. Eeeek!
 
isn't C# similar to Java
 
user142019
1:51 AM
Nope.
 
user142019
C# 1.0 was, maybe.
 
aw man I love how bladerunner looks even on blu-ray it hols up really nice
 
@rightfold C# 1 was essentially Java 1.4 with a different library.
 
well similar is undef
 
@Mysticial when doing a multiword multiplication with 32 bit limbs, do you generally use a 32x32->64 multiply and then shift/mask that as needed?
or do you actually use things like MULHU?
 
user142019
1:53 AM
C# has: fairly decent type system, LINQ, lambdas, type inference, pointers, actual generics (even with contravariance and covariance OMG OMG OMG <3), operator overloading (and useful ==), decent name.
 
user142019
Java doesn't have any of those.
 
C# is Microsoft
 
user142019
Okay, somewhat limited type inference.
 
@nightcracker When I'm doing it in pure C or C++, then yes, I use 32-bit integers as words, but all temporaries and carry-propagation is done using 64-bit integers.
 
user142019
And please don't say Java is good because it's cross-platform. It's bullshit.
 
1:54 AM
@rightfold I actually consider the JVM hurtful rather than helpful
 
@nightcracker Furthermore, in MSVC, need to use one of their intrinsics to get proper 32 x 32 -> 64 multiply in 32-bit mode.
 
@nightcracker So....?
 
Otherwise, it will do a stupid function call that's slow as fuck.
 
I actually like Java better than C++ and C#.
7
There I said it.
 
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel So… another weakness of Java!
 
user142019
1:55 AM
@Johann man come on
 
I like the JVM.
 
user142019
I starred it for everybody to laugh at.
 
@Johann May I ask why? I mean, for C++, I might understand, but for C#?
 
@Mysticial uint64_t f(uint32_t a, uint32_b) { return (uint64_t) a * b; } won't work?
 
ok maybe not C#
 
1:56 AM
By "Java", do you mean the language or the platform?
Because the platform is great.
The language, not so much.
 
@nightcracker That's fine for all compilers I know of except for MSVC compiling for 32-bit.
 
@Mysticial one of my oprah stars is still showing up
just saying
 
@Mysticial you don't happen to also have experience with multiword MODULAR arithmic, do you?
 
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel that'd be more like .NET vs Java. :P
 
@rightfold Indeed.
 
1:57 AM
@nightcracker Those are hard. I do, but not the type required for encryption.
 
And I think Java (the platform) is better than .NET.
 
or Oracle versus Microsoft
@EtiennedeMartel applause
 
user142019
James Gosling secretly loves C# but he doesn't want to give in.
 
@Mysticial well, it's those I'm going to do :) luckily the scope is very limited
 
But the language? I'd say "old" is the best way to describe it.
 
1:58 AM
Encryption is just a lot of modular powering right?
 
user142019
"obsolete"
 
@Mysticial no no no nono
 
That said, I wonder if Scala is any good.
 
@nightcracker no?
 
1:59 AM
I keep hearing good things about it.
 
derp
 
@Mysticial first of all, I'm not doing this for encryption, but cryptography
 
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel Ask Fred, he teaches it.
 
Really.
 
@Mysticial in particular, this is for a message authentication code
 
1:59 AM
Hm hm.
 
@nightcracker Encryption is a subset of cryptography. :)
 
@Mysticial true
 
@EtiennedeMartel It's cool. I'm not competent with it, but I like some of the ideas.
 

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