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6:00 PM
@CatPlusPlus +1
So cairo can just render to arbitrary memory location?
 
No, you render over OpenGL viewport
 
that sounds kinky
how does it know where my viewport is?
 
I don't know, on your window maybe
 
@thecoshman - considered glfw for creating windows?
 
5 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
No, that might cause the project to move forward
 
6:01 PM
This is cross-platform so obviously he should use WinAPI for easier porting
 
5 mins ago, by thecoshman
and writing my own windowing library is now my primary focus, at least for the now
 
Even Linus? Linus knows C
 
@StackedCrooked You find that surprising?
 
And that's about it
 
6:02 PM
lol, no
 
Xeo
@StackedCrooked Linus thinks everything but C is a horrible language, so eh.
 
We care about what Linus thinks now?
 
Render into the cairo-context with normal cairo-calls.
Copy the cairo-surface into an OpenGL-texture with glTexImage2D().
Use this texture to map your OpenGL-primitives with.
 
@StackedCrooked Top comment is spot-on, to be honest.
 
@Borgleader We care about hating java.
 
user142019
6:03 PM
Fuck Java.
 
1 min ago, by Cat Plus Plus
Even Linus? Linus knows C
Called it
 
user142019
Also hi.
 
@CatPlusPlus - Linus knows C. That's true. And he doesn't care about user-space.
 
@CatPlusPlus He's the anti-Mysticial
 
I can't work without decent abstraction, I immediately want to kill myself
Stab myself in the face with that thing you stab yourself in the face with
Oh hey, those two lines have equal length
 
6:05 PM
@thecoshman That almost sounds like glload isn't behavi - oh wait, glload doesn't wrap X window functions. Um... Hm.
 
See, benefits of using monospaced fonts
 
No, they don't.
 
Which is the correct approach for a kernel developer. Sometimes it wouldn't hurt to have a better knowledge of the C++ EH stack, but that's (correctly) an issue for user-space.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Almost-equal. :D
What was the sign for that?
 
@Borgleader - @Mysticial answers are always excellent.
 
6:06 PM
THe squiggly =?
 
@ThePhD I get the warning out put before anything else
 
@BrettHale You missed the joke.
 
@CatPlusPlus It's like two lines of a poem. :D
͌
^ Diacritical whatever marks, but that's what almost-eqals looks like (when blown up and not so tiny)
 
@Borgleader - yeah, probably.
 
6:08 PM
That's better.
 
Not probably, you did. "Linus knows C" --> Anti Mysticial. Its a joke on Mysticial not knowing C. Also an attempt at starbait on my part.
 
Xeo
Gawd, it feels good to have sound again.
 
Mysticial not knowing C is a recurring topic here.
 
@Xeo Silence is a terrible thing to put someone through.
 
Xeo
So, next thing would be to get foobar to work on here, but for that I need Wine, which I really can't apt-get right now.
 
6:11 PM
Or maybe use a native player instead
 
rhythmbox should be good enough at the moment
 
Saw an old CRT die an awesome death. It put out a high pitched squeal, and the image started shrinking on the screen, as smoke started coming out of the back of the unit. All HW should have a gunpowder reserve so you know it's FUBAR.
 
You know, something that was actually ~tested~ on your platform
 
It auto-combs your music directories so that might help, and you can point it at it multiple directories
 
@ThePhD Any so-called music player does that.
 
6:12 PM
I don't think Amarok does...
... Does WinAmp do that?
iTunes doesn't do that.
 
iTunes is a piece of garbage, but is it that bad?
 
user142019
Yay I put my crappy web framework on GitHub.
 
Oh man, I've been forgetting to commit again.
This is gonna have like 32 hours worth of revisions an changes in it @__@
Which would be a lot if COMPILATION DIDN'T TAKE SO LONG.
Damn. I need to shrink the compilation times. ._.
 
Put everything in a single .cpp!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That actually made things 10000000% faster.
 
6:15 PM
(Before you do it, that was a joke)
 
I use the "iTunes match" service. It sucked at first but now it works pretty well. All my music has been uploaded and I can sync it on multiple clients.
 
Xeo
It's called a "unity build"
@R.MartinhoFernandes It works, though. :D
 
git convinced me that Linus is a genius. If I had doubts about the Linux kernel, git shows that the guy really gets it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes (Jokes on you and also on me because that's how I've been building from the start. :D)
 
user142019
I use iTunes and it works well.
 
user142019
6:17 PM
I don't see why people hate it.
 
user142019
Probably because it's by Apple.
 
Xeo
lol
 
That sounded churlish. Obviously he's talented. But git is a perfect RCS backbone.
 
Xeo
That comment, coming from you?
 
user142019
6:18 PM
Linus is a hero.
 
iTunes: Takes a shitload of memory, doesn't automatically update itself if I change music folders, never warns me about missing files or folders until I play the damn tracks, and other such nonsense.
 
user142019
He's exactly the kind of douchebag I like.
 
@ThePhD everything except building is faster with a single .cpp
 
@Zoidberg - perfect blend of practical and theoretic, IMHO. Almost always gets it right.
 
If I want to take my iTunes and put it on another computer, well, the iTunes library file is non-importable unless I directly export it as XML and the import it again, and even after that all song paths must be exactly the same - OR ELSE.
 
6:19 PM
@Zoidberg says enough about you then
 
user142019
@TonyTheLion :D
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz Nope, we tested it with a huge project at the GA - stuffing all .cpps into a single one made it go zing.
 
@Xeo no fucking way
 
:D
 
Xeo
It's called a "unity build", Google it.
 
user142019
6:20 PM
Puff cake y u so fucking sweet.
 
Modules and single translation unit OP and Superior.
 
@Xeo if it was, compilers would just glue the cpps together -.-
 
Xeo
The downside is, if you change one thing, everything rebuilds.
 
So, yeah, it's fucking slower.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Compilers have to be ~backwards compatible~ and ~standards compliant~.
 
6:21 PM
Here's a dumb question. Is there markup for this forum? I've just been using SO.
 
Xeo
But that was still faster than what happened before. I have no clue how they managed to fuck their build up so much.
 
27 secs ago, by Xeo
The downside is, if you change one thing, everything rebuilds.
 
10+1+1+1+1+1 < 8+8+8+8+8+8
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Release build! :D
 
6:21 PM
Well, at the moment I'm constantly rebuilding library parts and the engine DLL, so that triggers a rebuild on everything anyways.
 
user142019
@Xeo maybe they rebuilt everything once for every file. So eight files would mean 64 builds. xD
 
Xeo
And no ODR problems!
 
@Xeo That can run overnight, so pointless.
 
@Xeo I KNOW!
No fucking inline to worry about.
 
Xeo
(Disclaimer: I don't endorse unity builds.)
 
6:22 PM
@BrettHale What "forum"?
 
@Xeo q_q why u brek mi hart lik dis
 
@ThePhD Or maybe your project is just too coupled.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit The one you're in... right now :P
It's a forum... didn't you know?
 
Also, "unity builds" change semantics.
 
user142019
 
6:24 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Maybe. I haven't fully separated out all the headers into respective .Decl.hand .inl yet, so there's still a bunch of regular .h with definitions in them.
Most of the ones I'm using, however, I've separated: GraphicsDevice, ShaderParameter, ShaderParameterCollection, etc. etc. etc.
I wish there was an automatic header-file splicer.
Wrote the implementation in the header? NO PROBLEM, we'll zap it for you!
Would be nice.
But alas, back to using my fingers. ;~;
 
besides
 
user142019
lol
 
the more you split things up, the more horrible #include compilation times you have.
 
user142019
Dennis Ritchie y u no modules. :(
 
Maybe he'll rise from his grave for modules
 
6:27 PM
@DeadMG Wait, what. o_o
 
1 min ago, by DeadMG
the more you split things up, the more horrible #include compilation times you have.
 
^ Learn to forward declare, dumbass
 
Wait wait hold on if you split things up, doesn't that make compilation faster?
 
6:28 PM
@Zoidberg - excellent image. terrible advice.
 
@ThePhD If you have 1 source file that depends on <vector>, then you include <vector> once. If you split it up into 5 source files that depend on <vector>, you include <vector> five times.
 
user142019
Use a decent language problem solved.
 
@Zoidberg Most of my engine is cloned in C#.
 
the more TUs you have, the more #include you have, the more your compilation has the speed of Oscar Pistorious in his jail cell.
 
@DeadMG that's very cool. Except YOU DON'T ALWAYS DO FULL REBUILD
 
6:29 PM
Come on, really?
 
user142019
@ThePhD good, C# is decenter than C++.
 
user142019
Though it lacks TMP.
 
user142019
WHICH IS ANNOYING AS FUCK.
 
Your builds are that much hurt by I/O=
 
6:29 PM
RIP TMP C# ;~;
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I should have bought the SSD laptop. ;~;
@Zoidberg Generics are horribru.
 
@ThePhD I have SSD workstation
 
Is it?
 
6:30 PM
@ThePhD Do you know that once you get stuff in cache the SSD is slower?
 
user142019
You can abuse dynamic if you want duck-typing. xD
 
Whoa, really? o_O
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes wait, what?
 
Xeo
JOHANNES!
I have a question for you. :)
 
Newsflash: SSDs are not faster than RAM.
 
6:31 PM
uh
 
user142019
dynamic is awesome.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes did you hear about that "cache" disk project?
 
do u have a new riddle
 
I thought we were comparing to regular RPM drives.
 
6:31 PM
Something between disk and memory
 
SSDs only help on certain kinds of builds.
 
Xeo
@JohannesSchaub-litb Why is the ICS 'identity -> user-defined -> identity' not better than 'derived-to-base -> user-defined -> identity'?
 
user142019
Build from RAM drive.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes they definitely aren't worse :P
 
Get 64 GB RAM, build a RAM-Drive and enjoy live.
 
6:33 PM
Now I want more RAM :(
 
user142019
RAM with SATA interface. :L
 
@Xeo because only the second SCS matters in comparisons
 
user142019
Volatile HDD. xD
 
Xeo
Aw c'mon, that's stupid. :( WHYYYY
 
is-a
 
6:33 PM
@Xeo only if the conversion function or constructor is the same, two user defined conversion sequences can be compared
@Xeo wait. when is the first SCS a derived-to-base SCS ?
 
So, uh.
 
Xeo
@JohannesSchaub-litb conversion operator from base class
 
@Xeo do you think about the implicit object parameter?
 
Xeo
Yes
 
Right now, as it stands. I'm doing a 'Unity Build' for my Engine DLL: it compiles everything into Furrovine++.cpp and builds once. This build is extremely fast.
 
6:35 PM
such functions are considered to be members of the derived class
for the purpose of overload resolution
 
Xeo
....
 
@ThePhD how many times do I and Robot have to tell you it's stupid?
 
Xeo
And what about qualification vs identity as the first SCS?
 
user142019
Using C++ and crying about compilation times.
 
Xeo
(const qualified conversion op)
 
6:36 PM
What slows down are the client project builds. They are multiple .cpp files all including pieces and parts of the engine. I'm trying to figure out how to speed up the second part.
 
user142019
The longer your compilation takes, the more you can slack off. It's a good thing.
 
By not using C++
 
@ThePhD are you using forward declarations?
 
But seriously putting everything into one .cpp is bad
Because you can't parallelise compilation of a single TU
 
@BartekBanachewicz Partially in the engine. The client projects all use forward-declaration-only. The engine still isn't fully broken up yet.
 
user142019
6:37 PM
15
Q: #include all .cpp files into a single compilation unit?

Steve FollyI recently had cause to work with some Visual Studio C++ projects with the usual Debug and Release configurations, but also 'Release All' and 'Debug All', which I had never seen before. It turns out the author of the projects has a single ALL.cpp which #includes all other .cpp files. The *All co...

 
@Xeo 13.3.1p4: "For conversion functions, the function is considered to be a member of the class of the implied object argument for the purpose of defining the type of the implicit object parameter."
 
@CatPlusPlus and you have to full rebuild every time!
 
@CatPlusPlus Ah. Welp, looks like I know what I'm doing for the rest of the day. ._.
 
Linking is still a bottleneck, but that can be mitigated somewhat by making several DLLs
 
Xeo
@JohannesSchaub-litb Damn, k
 
6:37 PM
lulz
 
It shifts it towards runtime linking, but you can reduce the overhead by rebasing appropriately
And so on
 
user142019
> And it's a PITA to maintain.
 
user142019
Fuck this it slows down browser.
 
IIRC Google Chrome team did some tricks to improve build speeds.
 
(Not that you're likely to notice DLL overhead until you hit 100 or something)
 
user142019
6:38 PM
If I get pitas for maintaining it I'd sure do unity builds.
 
Just benchmark it.
 
And yeah, full rebuilds
 
Welp, looks like I'm separating everything out.
This is gonna take a while. ._.
 
Xeo
@JohannesSchaub-litb So, what about the qualification adjustment vs identity now?
 
What improves build speeds is minimising dependencies between TUs
 
user142019
6:38 PM
Use Python.
 
user142019
No more builds.
 
And compilation firewalls
 
user142019
Everything is bad and terrible.
 
@BartekBanachewicz resolved by precompiled headers. no need to break delicious .cpp encapsulation
 
It comes down to eliminating as much rebuilding as possible
Because if you have code you'll have to build it at least once anyway
 
6:39 PM
@Zoidberg an image of a PITA slows down your browser?
 
Xeo
I thought the compiler would select the conversion operator based on the first SCS, and from there I could do what I want. :(
 
@Xeo can you give an example of what you want to be clarified, with code?
 
Minimising TU compilation time is mostly not including shit you're not using
 
lol
seems obvious, huh?
 
Xeo
@JohannesSchaub-litb sec
 
6:40 PM
you can also, y'know, invest in hardware
 
0
Q: Is it possible to use the VC++ 6 compiler in Visual Studio 2012?

Gam ErixI am using Visual Studio 2012 to develop my projects, and I also have installed Visual Studio 2010 - which gives me the option to use the VC++10 compiler in Visual Studio 2012 (project properties), but I also have installed Visual C++ 6 and somehow the option to use the VC++6 compiler is not pres...

 
In intel I have a fucking lab with shitload of servers compiling for me
 
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15044138/c-udp-cross-platform-fast-library
> "boost does not interest me"
lol
 
user142019
-1 not enough Boost. — Zoidberg 8 secs ago
 
6:42 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lolwut
lolwtfwut
 
0
A: C++ UDP cross-platform, fast library (not boost)

Bartek BanachewiczBoost.Asio is a nice, simple to use, fast, free, independent library.

 
Why would anyone want to subject themself to that.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes that guy writes in Pawn, remember?
 
it got an upvote
amazing
this site is great
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit really? :/
 
6:44 PM
it feels like putting litb into tomalak's body
 
Xeo
@JohannesSchaub-litb stacked-crooked.com/view?id=405488baf212abaf36b4cff7835cbf80 I basically wanna know why this is ambiguous.
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb :/
 
such a waste of beauty!
 
amphibious*
 
posted on February 23, 2013 by Scott Meyers

[If you don't read German, this post is of no interest to you, sorry. If you're dying to know what follows, plop the text into Google Translate.] 2011 habe ich zum ersten Mal mein Seminar zum Thema die effektive Anwendung von C++ in Embedded Systems auf Deutsch gehalten. Das Seminar ist ziemlich gut gegangen, denke ich (niemand ist gestorben), aber nach dem Seminar war es mir klar, dass die d

 
6:44 PM
lulz
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I upvoted because Asio is actually available as standalone without boost.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I meant the question
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's probably again about that shitty stolen code he just won't shut up about
 
@Xeo I wanna know why you think it shouldn't be
 
6:45 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Oh, that.
lol
 
Asio is ok, before edited, author suggested Boost, so my first comment was to that one. — PolGraphic 36 secs ago
GOD PEOPLE I WILL MURDER HIM with my bare hands
 
Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I thought the conversion operator for the UDC would be selected based on the SCS before that, and the SCS are qualification adjustment vs identity.
 
Lol
COllin's getting all the free upvotes.
For suggesting UDT.
Also man you guys are mean.
 
Also, can you get the downvotes back @LightnessRacesinOrbit?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Hmm?
 
6:47 PM
@ThePhD Yay rep
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit ohh! that gives warm feelings
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit nvm
 
@Xeo ok no idea what you're talking about
 
DOwnvoted the shit out of that poor guy for saying "I don't want to use boost."
 
6:47 PM
Actually UDT is pretty nice, we've had some good luck with it
 
Comment rep is more valuable because you have to put effort and be funny~
 
@ThePhD For placing a poor question.
 
Shopping list questions are OT
 
@Xeo because origin can be converted to first and second
 
"No Boost" questions are too localised
 
6:48 PM
@Xeo and both user defined conversion sequences use a different conversion functions
 
This one is both!
 
@ThePhD And more, how do you know whatever you answer won't be rejected on the basis "X does not interest me either"?
 
so they cannot be compared
 
Xeo
@JohannesSchaub-litb :(
 
Waste of everyone's time
 
user142019
6:48 PM
I like libuv for networking.
 
Xeo
That's... meh
 
user142019
Or you know
 
If you have shitty requirements nobody cares about, learn how to use Google on your own
 
user142019
BSD API.
 
@Xeo the first SCS of a UCS is compared when the resolution for the conversion function for one particular UCS is done.
 
6:49 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ah, true. :c
 
@ThePhD The guy is, pardon me, a fucking retard
 
0
Q: getline(isstream, string) in C++

JonathanI'm working on learning C++, and still keep running into stupid problems as I am yet unfamiliar with C++ libraries, and common errors, etc. right now, the following piece of my code fails: #include <iostream> #include <string> #include <cstdlib> #include <sstream> void ...

 
Doing UDP networking with raw BSD sockets is reinventing the wheel
 
Xeo
So I'll only be able to put a total ordering on 13 overloads until I get a better idea. Dammit.
 
Because in most cases you need to implement all these things TCP implements only on your side
 
Xeo
6:49 PM
@JohannesSchaub-litb k, thanks
 
Muahaha, @LightnessRacesinOrbit Downvoted not enough politeness.
 
@Xeo if you had to conversion functions to first, one being const and the other non-const, then the compiler would pick the non-const (assuming your non-const temporary origin). this however does not compare two UCS, but it compares two functions for the purpose of picking a winner for the "who will be the conversion function for this UCS?"
 
Xeo
@JohannesSchaub-litb Yeah, but the idea was to get a different type through the conversion, depending on which overloads are available. :(
 
getline(cin output.c_str());
WTF is that.
 
user142019
Extremely bad code.
 
6:51 PM
@Xeo if you derive first from second, you will find that things work
 
It's programming by guessing
 
because then the operator first will be picked both time. and then the first foo will be finally selected because the second SCS of the UCS is better for it than for the second foo
 
Xeo
@JohannesSchaub-litb Awesome, thanks.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I think you need to take a vacation or something, you've been particularly angry at people lately
 
@Collin don't you agree?
 
Xeo
6:53 PM
Er, wait
nvm
 
I agree with Collin, btw.
 
Yaaay
Commentator Badge!
 
@BartekBanachewicz He has an irrational fear of Boost, sure, but belittling him for it certainly isn't going to make him any smarter
 
user142019
I'm always angry.
 
Now I can stop bothering LightnesRacesInOrbit
 
6:54 PM
@Xeo out of curiosity, what are you trying to do that needs such conversions?
 
@Xeo and even though the return type of operator second matches closer for foo(second), it is not taken, because that criteria is only compared once the implicit object parameter is ambiguous. however since in this case the operator first's one is non-const, it wins and the criteria about the return type of the conversion function is not anymore compared
 
@je4d Explicit overload ranking.
 
it's a tie-breaker, similar to the "function is better than function template" thing
 
Xeo
@JohannesSchaub-litb Well, I can actually go without the second overload now, can't I?
 
@Xeo yes, you can
it's redundant then :)
 
6:55 PM
@Bartek Um, I don't see anyone "raging" here except you. Please keep your comments at least slightly professional and, if you can't do that, do what I do and draw the line at getting personal. — Lightness Races in Orbit 41 secs ago
You backed yourself into that one.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ta
 
@Collin what should I say? That's great that he doesn't want to use Boost.Asio, but "Asio" is ok?
 
Xeo
Anyways, many thanks, with that I should be able to rank 21 overloads.
 
@BartekBanachewicz So he's misinformed. Does that make him a bad person?
 
Xeo
Wait, if you go with d-to-b conversions...
 
6:56 PM
Surely you didn't always know everything you currently do
 
Xeo
Oooh, new idea.
 
@Collin No. He's a bad person for not listening to people. And downvoting my answer just because he is too lazy to look at boost
 
@BartekBanachewicz You didn't make an argument, you just told him boost is good because you said so. Why should he listen to you?
 
@Collin No just a bad poster~
 
@Collin I gave him the library that satisfied all his sensible requirements. And if he downvotes before EVEN LOOKING at what I gave him, then sorry, but that's not misinformed for me; that's just being bad
 
6:58 PM
The real problem is that "no Boost" requirement
Close vote, forget
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit yea, I kind of went full retard with this, but I got angry -.-
 
@BartekBanachewicz He didn't downvote you. [edit oh actually I can't prove that now]
 
Unless you're funny like me then leave a comment too~
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit how can you know?
 
I knew at one point but I just re-checked and now I have no data
 
6:59 PM
@Xeo glad to be of help
 
"No boost" can be a requirement, I just found it funny how he formed it.
 
i.e. when there was a single downvote, and it was mine, I knew.
 
@CatPlusPlus Of course, it's a stupid requirement. I'm just saying perhaps jumping down his throat was perhaps a bit over the top
 
i always like your riddles
 
@bamboon "too localised"
 

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