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user1804599
11:00 AM
<algorithm> is lovely.
 
it is?
since when?
 
user1804599
I don’t know much about the history of C++.
 
the appropriate answer is "never"
 
@DeadMG Have you eaten much?
 
@GamesBrainiac Why would I eat things?
I'm sick enough as it is
 
11:09 AM
How will you get sleep if you don't have anything in your stomach?
 
Xeo
... TIL: Python has no switch-statement.
@not-rightfold You'll learn to hate iterators soon enough.
 
user1804599
@Xeo Python sucks.
 
user1804599
@Xeo :'(
 
@Xeo Yea, thats a bummer.
 
user1804599
I should write this in Haskell; fuck JavaScript.
 
11:12 AM
I REALLY hate js.
Worst language ever.
 
@GamesBrainiac except for all the ones that are worse
 
Xeo
Gaaaah, fuck Perforce's idea of a "branch"
 
user1804599
@GamesBrainiac It’s better than Java and PHP.
 
@not-rightfold 1.6 maybe. Right now as it stands? Well, it beats PHP but not java.
 
@Telkitty猫咪咪 hiiii
 
11:15 AM
@GamesBrainiac JS the language is fine, really. The problem is all the painfully ugly browser APIs
I'd much rather write JS than Java
 
@jalf It has horrible exception handling :(
 
@GamesBrainiac So does Java
 
Let me correct. JS has almost no exception handling.
I mean if you can't find something in an array, it returns undefined, dsnt raise an error!
 
@GamesBrainiac by which you mean....?
 
dafuq?
 
user1804599
11:16 AM
@GamesBrainiac that’s not exception handling.
 
@GamesBrainiac remind me what C++ does if you try to find something in an array, please
 
user1804599
@jalf C++ is totally irrelevant.
 
@jalf C++ is fubar, we all know that.
 
@GamesBrainiac why is that so unreasonable?
I'd hate for a find function to throw a fucking exception if the element I'm looking for couldn't be found
 
@jalf Its unreasonable, because say an array or a list is supposed to have that. Its an exception.
 
11:18 AM
@GamesBrainiac dafuq?
The find function doesn't know if the array is supposed to have the element or not
 
@jalf Not finding the element may be the desired behaviour. Maybe the existence of the element is an error..
 
Because you expect it.
 
it just knows that you asked to find it if it exists
 
Yea, I think my main hatred towards js, is because most js code is LBYL, and I like EAFP.
 
user1804599
UB is best.
 
Xeo
11:22 AM
@GamesBrainiac Uh wat?
Can you expand those acronyms?
 
@GamesBrainiac Much more easily.
 
user1804599
> This clean and fast style is characterized by the presence of many try and except statements.
 
user1804599
> clean
 
user1804599
lol
 
11:34 AM
@GamesBrainiac If that's the case, it's a bug, not an exception.
 
user1804599
 
@not-rightfold that is just so friggin cute
 
user1804599
I’m friggin your mom.
 
@GamesBrainiac You don't know whether or not the array was supposed to have that element. You only know that you were asked to check if it existed.
 
@GamesBrainiac on which planet does that apply to "a find function indicating that the element you searched for was not found"?
 
11:49 AM
@jalf Why find, say you just want to go list['text/html'] and its not there.
 
@GamesBrainiac What if I want to know if it is there? What if I want to know that it is not there?
should isupper() also throw an exception if the string was not all uppercase?
 
@jalf No, because that is more like a property, it gives back a boolean.
 
a properly?
 
But, if you use isupper on an int, then yes, I'd like it to throw and exception
 
@GamesBrainiac some of us would like to catch that at compile-time....
 
11:51 AM
@jalf corrected. Got my little cousin sitting on my lap, trying to see what I'm doing :P
 
but I wasn't talking about calling it on an int
@GamesBrainiac Isn't it a property of a list that it "does not contain the element 'text/html'?
On planet Sane, we prefer exceptions to indicate errors
It is not generally an error if a list does not contain an element you searched for
 
@jalf Ahh, I see where you're getting at.
 
@GamesBrainiac What should isupper return for codepoints that are in languages like Arabic that don't have casing?
 
It might be an error in specific cases, in which case the calling code might choose to throw an exception
but in general, as far as the find function is concerned, no error occurred
 
@DeadMG Arabic does have casing.
 
11:54 AM
hm, really? I know there are some caseless languages, and I thought the robot said that Arabic was one.
 
@DeadMG isupper was my example, for the record. He wasn't the one bringing that up :)
 
maybe it's CJK or something like that that doesn't have casing.
 
Xeo
Japanese
And I guess Chinese too, for that matter
 
@jalf Fair enough. I think that the Unicode people actually do have to define that kind of stuff anyway.
 
@DeadMG yeah, and I pity them for that... Poor souls :)
 
11:55 AM
lol
 
@jalf I see where you're getting at, but I wish I could show you the code (I can't cuz its the company's :( )
 
but I just wanted to come up with an example of something that is obviously not an error, but where you could choose to throw an exception solely to indicate that "it seems like the input wasn't what you (the caller) expected it to be"
like "you called find to look for x, but it wasn't there", or "you called isupper" on a string that wasn't uppercase"
 
@jalf It's quite easy, actually. A string is uppercase if uppercasing it doesn't change it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes missing the point :p
my point is just that it would be insane to define isupper to have the semantics that "if you call it, it must be because you expect the string to be uppercase, and so we should throw an exception if it is not"
and yet those are effectively the semantics @GamesBrainiac wants for find
or maybe the other way around. "if you call it, it must be because you expect the string to not already be uppercase, so throw an exception if that is the case"
Still dumb
 
I'm getting confused.
 
12:00 PM
All is going according to plan :p
 
@jalf Great, here's your prize
You win a purple mudkip.
I want to make something useful with haskell
But, I feel the best I can do is make a nice calculator.
 
wtf why do I get flag notifications for chats that I am neither participating in nor giving a shit what's happening there?
 
Welcome to the world of 10k chat :(
 
what about 1k chat
raise of the newbs
when I get to 10k, if I ever get to 10k, there would be gazillion 10k users
 
12:39 PM
WTF IS THIS
 
royal ninja (fat) cats
taking orders from the queen
 
12:59 PM
I don't believe you'll ever get 10k
 
I will not, anyway.
 
user1804599
I quit at 22k.
 
@Abyx why not?
 
coz I don't seem to be interested in answering questions
hard to gain reps when you don't answer questions
 
@ArneMertz dunno. I just have that feeling. she'll get banned before getting 10k
 
1:11 PM
trying to jinx me :'(
gang banned
too many enemies as usual
 
I wonder why that is usual.
 
oh man, nearly 3/4 of the way through the day and only just able to start thinking about actual work... time for a coffee?
 
it's monday, all can be forgiven
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes she thinks people telling her she is wrong makes them an enemy
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes what's your take on that question?
 
1:13 PM
@Telkitty猫咪咪 nope, I'm not trying to jinx you. it's just that if you got banned before, there is a high probability that it will happen again
 
So mean :'(
 
Hey guys any one here involved in some kind of linux kernel development?
 
I can't even remember why I was banned in the first place
 
@Telkitty猫咪咪 yep statistics is always mean.
@UmerFarooq we'd shoot him
 
@Abyx you have statistical evidence for that? Often people who get banned are more careful not to get banned
 
1:14 PM
@Abyx LOL why?
 
because.
 
he couldn't get any work done
 
@UmerFarooq We're C++ programmers. Why do you think we'd do Linux kernel development.
 
I know. I am also C++ programmer but recently I developed interest in kernel development. So that's why I was aksing
 
C++ -- = c which is used to develop linux kernel ... that & the C room seems dead
 
1:16 PM
@UmerFarooq you can't be a C++ programmer if you like C.
 
@UmerFarooq Linux kernal is lead by Linus. Linus has a moronic fear of C++
 
@Telkitty猫咪咪 yep that's why I came here
 
@Abyx would you not think she would learn?
 
@thecoshman very true man. but I would like to learn it because it has alot of oppertunities in future
 
I don't but mods would ... have not seem them around for ages
 
1:17 PM
I love C, C++, Java
 
@UmerFarooq learn to respond to correct messages ¬_¬
 
@thecoshman I think she won't.
 
@Abyx I love C, C++, Java :D
5
 
@UmerFarooq three languages this room does not like
 
@UmerFarooq gtfo
 
1:18 PM
@thecoshman pardon me. It's my first day in this room :)
@Abyx it's very rude dude :)
 
nope it's not.
 
this room does not like anything, and if you are new, this room will try to get you banned too! that's how I got banned the first time
and 2nd time
but that's long long time ago
 
@Telkitty猫咪咪 LOL wow. Guys here seem very furious to me :P
 
And yet you're still around.
 
@Telkitty猫咪咪 only because they plonked you
 
1:20 PM
Aren't I tough >_<
 
@Telkitty猫咪咪 you were not banned because your were new
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yep dude :D
 
@UmerFarooq we are not furious, we just don't twat around. If you act the twat, we will tell you bluntly.
 
@thecoshman oohK
 
@Telkitty猫咪咪 It shows that either you're a liar or you have really bad taste.
 
1:23 PM
they say the most proliferate specie isn't the smartest, nor the fastest, but the most resilient ... there is a reason why I would be here years after you quit after starting to have mental issues
@R.MartinhoFernandes do not follow your logic
 
omg lol
 
BTW what did I do lately to deserve so much hostility?
 
@Telkitty猫咪咪 more hostility? it looks like always to me
 
anyway, I think hostility is like a tg(x), it has an upper limit
 
1:29 PM
when everyone plonks you?
 
and uhm it has a hysteresis
 
@JerryCoffin JERRY!!! I am bullied again, for no reasons
 
@Telkitty猫咪咪 no bulling. you just see things
talk about mental issues btw
 
lol, there is a mental hospital right opposite the road from where I live
3 months old
 
@Telkitty猫咪咪 you need to reassess what you consider bullying
 
1:33 PM
Too warm to think today & it's only October
 
@Telkitty猫咪咪 If it's true that we are so horrible, what does it say of someone that tries so hard to hang out with such horrible people?
 
@Telkitty猫咪咪 there is no big mirror, right?
 
@Telkitty猫咪咪 I suppose I could join in bullying you too, if you really insist, but I just got up and I'm barely awake so I doubt I can do a respectable job of it.
 
lol
Maybe too much carbon monoxide/smoke from the bush fire
Hate warm smoky days ...
 
user1804599
@UmerFarooq you must be good at C++.
 
1:39 PM
think I will go crazy if there is going to be three months of this and extreme waves of pollen
 
@Xeo I am against the fanboy culture surrounding it.
 
Xeo
It's just that good.
:P
 
user1804599
How do you pronounce the A in “Haskell”?
 
@Rapptz This is one of those rare cases where people become fans because it's honestly good--a very well-designed language.
 
user1804599
1:41 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ah. (Pun not intended.)
 
I don't like fanboyism regardless if it's well deserved or not tbh
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes According to wikipedia, it's /æ/
 
Wikipedia now says how I pronounce things?
Wow.
:P
 
Xeo
heh
 
Haskell Curry's page doesn't say how to pronounce his name :(
 
1:43 PM
@Rapptz Being a fan doesn't imply being a fanboy. I've seen a few Haskell fanboy's, but I certainly wouldn't put Xeo (for only one example) in that category at all.
 
Old Cat, or one of rightfold's incarnations, yes.
 
Meh - an hour fiddling with DNS cache etc. flushing, reboots, tweaks and then I find out my router had gone 'strange'. Years of network experience and I didn't think to power-cycle the router first :(
 
@JerryCoffin I didn't say he was. I was merely replying why it looks like I have an aversion to Haskell.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ¬_¬ I wish I could understand what IPA actually means
 
@Rapptz Fair enough.
 
1:44 PM
The International Phonetic Alphabet, or IPA, is an alphabetic system of phonetic notation based primarily on the Latin alphabet. It was devised by the International Phonetic Association as a standardized representation of the sounds of spoken language. In the IPA, vowel sounds are defined as sound which occurs at a syllable center. Below is a chart depicting the vowels of the IPA, with audio examples of each. The IPA maps the vowels according to the position of the tongue. References See also * IPA pulmonic consonants chart with audio
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes but what does it mean?
 
@thecoshman Sounds?
 
@thecoshman The whole intent is to ensure you don't--to create a cultural divide between those in the know, and the uncultured, uneducated masses.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes mind keeping that handy?
AND WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO WRECK THAT JOURNAL!
 
1:47 PM
Soon. Winter will present many opportunities.
 
hm... speaking of Haskell, I think that @DeadMG could make Huskyll
8
 
lol
@thecoshman Sure? Why don't you do it?
 
user1804599
 !
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'll never remember it
 
There are also four consonant charts.
 
1:48 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes four?
 
@thecoshman They try to include every possible variation of how anybody might pronounce any given sound (up to and including "V as pronounced by a 5 year-old who just lost his right-front tooth.")
 
Separated into categories. There many many consonants.
 
@JerryCoffin lol
@R.MartinhoFernandes nah. (dogidly sticking to a me-centric view for no good reason)
 
Morning
 
Xeo
ahahah. A coworker hinted at the possibility of cookies being available in the kitchen, and the whole company started moving like a wave.
 
2:12 PM
mmm, cookies
 
@Xeo How to get people (of any descent) to voluntarily repeat the holocaust: "It's a fully functioning gas chamber, and there's a very good chance that somebody will lock you in and turn it on if you go in-- but there's free beer and munchies for anybody who'll go in!"
 
@Jefffrey I think I have it all recovered now.
 
@Pawnguy7 Finally!
Oh, you didn't mean mentally.
 
What? :D
 
:P
 
2:20 PM
I am contemplating how to lay out the menu.
After you die in singleplayer.
 
Just a single button called "Ahaha you are a loser".
 
Perhaps :D
I plan to have highscores for singleplayer, though.
Right now it is like so:
 
Sounds about right.
 
Should I have a button, say Submit Score, in there?
Or should it be automatic somehow?
Say, only if it is in the top ten.
 
Automatic, IMHO. I never liked the "Submit the score" part.
 
2:25 PM
Automatic if in the top ten?
 
Automatic always. Just show the current score and the thirst three.
 
user1804599
@Pawnguy7 text is way too hazy.
 
@not-rightfold I blame SFML.
Or the font.
 
Cast to an int.
 
For?
 
2:29 PM
Floating point font size renders funny.
 
Size is 25, non-float.
I didn't know floating points worked.
 
Then it's your font choice.
 
Does the top text look good?
 
looks okay. I don't like the font at all.
 
Alternatives in mind?
 
2:32 PM
No.
 
@Pawnguy7 Windings :-)
 
user1804599
@Pawnguy7 Andale Mono.
 
Try this for a realisation: You are not being paid to worry about peoples feelings, we are all grown ups, so if something is shit, just say it. The sooner someone says it, the sooner something can be sorted out.
 
@thecoshman Fuck you you're a bellend shut up
;)
 
@thecoshman Agreed. I need to tell my boss that he fucked this whole shit up and shudnt put all the trouble of fixing it on me.
Thank you cartoon pirate.
 
2:46 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit nwo you're getting it, you self righteous twat
 
@thecoshman dickwad
HI GUISE
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit yes well...
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Wait, so he's a penis, and you're a vagina...
Match made in Heaven.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit are you kitty in disguise?
 
7 messages moved to bin
 
Xeo
2:53 PM
Power abuse!
 
@Xeo Politicians.
 
user1804599
$foo = $condition ? 'bar' : 'baz';
$qux->$foo();
 
user1804599
This is funny.
 
@EtiennedeMartel orgasmic really
 
@not-rightfold php?
 
user1804599
2:59 PM
Yes. :D
 
user1804599
Stringly-typed member function pointers!
 
@not-rightfold o_0 if($condition){ $qux->bar(); } else { $qux->baz();}
 
user1804599
:D.
 
@GamesBrainiac miaow no
 
Where the hell do we come up with names like foo bar or qux or baz?
 
3:06 PM
@GamesBrainiac Look up "fubar".
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit fubar, I get, but what about qux and baz?
 
Fuck it, I'm duplicating that code.
It's only the first copy anyway. I'll refactor on the third shot.
 
@not-rightfold $qux->{$condition ? 'bar' : 'baz'}();
 
@GamesBrainiac Corruptions
@EtiennedeMartel "Fuck it, it's the first time I've come to the point where I need to refactor; I'll do it on the fourth shot"
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I swear there was a rule of thumb somewhere.
 
3:09 PM
@not-rightfold Why's that, then?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit We talkin about Taquilla?
 
Like, first time you write something, alright. First time you copy it, take note. If you copy it again, now it's time to refactor.
 
Rule of three is a code refactoring rule of thumb to decide when a replicated piece of code should be replaced by a new procedure. It states that the code can be copied once, but that when the same code is used three times, it should be extracted into a new procedure. The rule was introduced by Martin Fowler in Refactoring and attributed to Don Roberts. Duplication in programming is a bad practice because it makes the code harder to maintain. Triplication is worse because it makes it harder yet. When the rule encoded in a replicated piece of code changes, whoever maintains the code will ...
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Right, read that in Refactoring.
 
nice link to our own Ro3 at the top there
 
3:12 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You mean the one we don't really need anymore thanks to the Ro0?
 
Ro0 isn't a total replacement for Ro3.
 
@DeadMG No, but Ro5 is.
 
only for copyable classes.
 
Meh, it's not like Ro5 is important.
 
although admittedly, Ro3 for move-only classes is different members to Ro3 for C++03 copyable classes.
 
3:14 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh, hey, didn't see you there.
 
all I'm saying is, there's still a space for Ro3 and Ro5, even though I'd argue that Ro0 is the most important by a long way.
 
Pro-tip: you can't write to files after you closed them.
 
so its Ro3o5oinRo0 (oin = only if not)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Indeed.
 
Sadly, that didn't fix everything :(
 
3:15 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes but you can try just for the fun of searching the problem
 
@EtiennedeMartel yes
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You are made of love and facial hair.
 
@EtiennedeMartel true
@molbdnilo: Actually, free(0) "works" perfectly. :) — Lightness Races in Orbit 2 mins ago
heehee
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You want rep for: std::vector<int>* ptr = new std::vector<int>[1];? Sorry, but no--even if it does advise against using this, it's just too ugly to upvote.
 
@JerryCoffin I didn't write that! The OP's hypothetical code says that! Not my fault!
I only did the delete[] bit
 
3:24 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit A base libel. The OP only seems to have: "The free() function of stdlib doesn't work on stl variables. Is there a common way to deallocate the space held up by an stl (like vectors, maps, sets etc.)?"
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit by not fixing that bs and using it in your own example code instead you promote it anyways. No rep for that.
 
:(
I'll wait for those who exist in the real world to upvote me, meanies.
 
Don't look at me like that.
 
I have an interesting choice of test scores.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit There is no real world. The universe is a figment of its own imagination.
 
3:31 PM
Beer is real.
 
@EtiennedeMartel ...unless declared integer.
 
Well, I always drink an integral amount of beers.
Ain't gonna leave an unfinished beer, you know.
 
@EtiennedeMartel What if you got arrested?
 
Arrested for what?
 
that would be ultimately irrelevant as to whether or not the police would permit you to finish your beer, I presume.
 
3:38 PM
Shoot them.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG What about drunk driving?
 
Run them over.
 
@Xeo I'm definitely guessing there would be no beer-finishing for drunk drivers.
 
Xeo
So it's not irrelevant!
 
also, just to resume our previous conversation, what is your suggested difference between covariance and is-a?
 
3:39 PM
In any case, I can chug a beer down relatively quickly.
 
I always believed that T covariant with U means T is-a U and T& is-a U&.
 
Xeo
Maybe I'm misusing the word "covariant"
 
@DeadMG That apparently depends on locale. I heard about a guy somewhere in Asia who drove through the front of a store and was being tried for careless driving (or somesuch). He plead not-guilty because he was completely drunk at the time -- and under the laws there, he was found not-guilty and wasn't penalized at all.
 
Xeo
@JerryCoffin std::law.imbue(new favor_drunk_drivers_locale())?
 
@Xeo Just be sure not to drink read from the stream before imbuing!
 
Xeo
3:43 PM
@DeadMG According to this at least, I'm not. It's just a relation from less to more generic types.
And "is-a" I'd directly relate to "derives from".
 
@Xeo I think there's a joke with "imbibe" in there somewhere.
 
Xeo
lol
 
I once found out it's actually not forbidden to drink beer while driving in Germany. As long as you're not drunk, you're ok. So you have to either stop drinking or driving in time.
 
Xeo
Eh, well, would be hard to not drink anything for 4hours while driving :)
 
Xeo
3:47 PM
And I mean non-alcoholic drinks!
 
@Xeo reread that. I explicitly wrote about drinking beer
 
@Xeo It would be hard to drink anything for 4hours while driving :)
 
Xeo
heh
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes catheter? ;)
 
I could really use a non-fucked up iostreams right now.
 
3:52 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes what's the problem with iostreams?
 
@ArneMertz You mean problems.
 
@ArneMertz Extending them is a mess.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes extending them how? can Boost.Iostreams help?
 
Yeah, Boost.Iostreams is what I'm looking at now.
 
It may not be the case here, but 90% of the time people wish for less fucked up iostreams, they really want less fucked up locales (or something on that order).
 
3:55 PM
Oh, really?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Note I was careful to say it may not be the case here. Nonetheless, an iostream is little more than a match-maker class, marrying a locale to a stream buffer. Stream buffers are mildly ugly, so sometimes people wish they were different. Locales are horribly ugly, so they're what most people wish were different most of the time. The primary ugliness with the iostream itself is the dichotomy between some formatting stuff being sticky, and other not.
 

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