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7:00 PM
I'll leave that for the others.
 
Are robots allowed to vote in Portugal?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes by not voting you give about half of your vote to the wrong guys, but hey, go right ahead.
 
@rubenvb ...and the other half to the right guys?
 
@SamDeHaan I think the statistics will be against you. Remember, you're comparing to voting on your choice versus not voting at all.
 
There's no "my choice", because I can't make up my mind.
 
7:02 PM
@rubenvb Either way you're not giving half a vote anywhere. What I meant: your argument is silly.
 
If I abstain, there's no vote for anyone. I'm taking half a vote from the wrong guys.
:P
I'm merely increasing the weight of each of my fellow citizen's votes.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes you trust them more than yourself in this matter?
 
@MooingDuck In what matter? That's the crux of my decision. They want me to pick someone to make decisions for the next four years. I'm not a seer.
And I don't know those people.
There's no way I can make a decision.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes but do you know them at least almost as well as the peers whos weights you increased?
hmm: "First-chance exception at 0x00b17847 in java.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation reading location 0x003e0100." I got twelve of those so far.
 
At least I don't think many of them vote by flipping a coin.
 
7:09 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes remember how you said there were an equal amount of morons in Europe as in the US... Well, those morons are voting for you.
 
@rubenvb And so are the smart ones.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes but they are outnumbered 100 to 1.
and not all smart people think alike.
 
Just like not all morons think alike.
 
that is something I would dare to challenge.
 
I'm trying to get the gist of R.Mart's discussion. The current viewable history does not help. Is there any sorcery that can help?
 
7:11 PM
@CaptainGiraffe lol
 
@rubenvb thanks for noticing =) still...
 
JNIEnv * env; //global
JNIEXPORT jboolean JNICALL Java_thing(JNIEnv * env_, jclass jc) {
    env = env_; //Access violation reading location 0x00000000.

today will not be a good day.
 
@rubenvb I am not 99.
And don't say "if everyone thought like you", because if everyone thought like me, I wouldn't mind voting.
 
If you don't vote then you don't get to complain when things go wrong...
Or something like that...
 
@Chimera Hello, this is a democracy where we have the rights of free speech and opinion.
 
7:14 PM
@Chimera Not sure about that at all
 
I don't have to participate in the decisions to have my rights.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You're seeing the wrong perspective. But I'm not sure I'm seeing things in perspective either...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Whatchya think about chapters introducing monads in LYAH/RWH? I have a feeling they're way heavier than necessary (god fundeps in a monad tutorial).
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes First off, the US isn't a democracy. And secondly I'm not suggesting your rights be taken away.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes until your rights are suddenly changed because some extremists decide they should change them.
 
7:16 PM
@rubenvb And when that happens, I don't know, I'll go out to the streets.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Excuse me I was late to the party, but I find the consequential discussion quite fascinating. What was your initial conundrum?
 
@rubenvb You have the right to eat chik-fil-A every day. Also, your right to not eat chik-fil-A every day has been revoked.
 
And, if things come to the point where there's the possibility of "really bad guys" (for some definition) taking control of the government, I might vote, because then I'll have an opinion.
 
@CaptainGiraffe who's going to win the US election
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes but by the time you realize that, it may be too late.
 
7:17 PM
48 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@Chimera I vote on referendums because on those I can make an informed decision. I don't vote on anything else.
@rubenvb I never said I don't pay attention to politics.
I just don't vote.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I saw that. I'm glad you vote when you have an opinion.
 
And I discuss politics with the people I socialise with. I think of that as making my part, and value it a lot more than voting.
 
I actually like the Swiss system of lots of referenda, although that's an opinion formed at a distance.
 
7:19 PM
Dang, no one-boxing Onion articles.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't think you need to defend yourself to us. We are just talking....
 
@Chimera Oh, don't worry, I'm just doing exposition. I like to make my view clear, because I know from experience people are likely to get the wrong idea when I say "I don't vote".
 
@rubenvb Most other countries has a plural party system where plural is >>2, that makes a difference
 
@CaptainGiraffe I brought that up too, but @R.MartinhoFernandes didn't believe me :(
 
@rubenvb I know Switzerland and a bunch of others have that. I'm just not sold on the "most" part.
 
7:21 PM
@rubenvb My apologies >> is not bitshift :)
 
AFAICS, in Europe it's ~50-50.
 
@CaptainGiraffe Why dividing by four?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't know of one european country with a 2 party system
 
@rubenvb I'd really like that.
 
I wish the US had a handful of parties.
 
7:23 PM
@CaptainGiraffe Maybe not officially, but in practice, you see that happening a lot.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes No, the votes sway all over the place in europe.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes 2 party system != 2 parties in government
 
Is there a major difference?
 
Well, I asked for express shipping, and I got express shipping. Three days to get from Colombus to Montreal.
 
In the US, there is no opposition. There is the President's party, and the other guys.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes!
In most European countries, not each term has the same party ingredients
it shifts
 
7:24 PM
@rubenvb What's the difference between "the other guys" and "opposition"?
 
Wikipeida says two party systems include US, Britain, Spain, Jamaca, Australia, India, and multiparty systems include Brazil, Russia, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, India, Indonesia, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Mexico, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Sweden, and Taiwan.
@R.MartinhoFernandes nothing.
 
Stop confusing me.
 
The ruling government can be "modified" and not just completely thrown out.
 
@rubenvb in the US, the president's party is less relevant than whichvever party has more people in the sentate/house of representatives.
 
Replacing one party is something different than replacing an entire government
 
7:25 PM
@MooingDuck In practice, in Canada, it's usually the Liberals vs the Conservatives. Although that has changed radically in the last elections.
 
@MooingDuck but it's the president that "markets" his party's programme.
 
@MooingDuck Forgot about Britain. To their credit the party is a looser concept than in most other governments.
 
@rubenvb whoever has more seats in the house is who makes all the laws.
 
@MooingDuck yes, I understand that. That's the problem of two parties.
In Belgium for example, a proposal can be supported by the opposition too. That never happens in the US.
 
@rubenvb oh, I didn't intend to disagree with that sentiment. Merely that it's not always the presidents party that's the one with all the power. But yes, one has all the power at any given time.
 
7:28 PM
@rubenvb I think that's not a problem of the system itself, but of the participants.
 
@MooingDuck yeah true, that was my point with the two halves of Obama's term some ways up in the discussion.
@R.MartinhoFernandes you can't change the participants.
 
I don't understand. In our multiparty system I can't change them either.
 
@rubenvb :This is a flaw in the system
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes once every so often a new party rises, with new ideas.
 
In sweden I have about 10 choices when I vote, 3 are realistic for me. 2 more if something was to happen with the governing of my country.
 
7:31 PM
In Russia, you don't vote, they vote you!
2
 
here is a ballot from Summit, New Jersey USA. You want party A in that position, or party B? (or "other")
 
@MooingDuck I'm sorry
@MooingDuck Aren't the New Yorkers the progressives in the US?
 
If I knew what a gressive was, I might be progressive.
 
@CaptainGiraffe I don't know about NY's political views, I'm only slightly closer to them than you are
 
@MooingDuck Is that lim -> -0 or lim -> +0. I'm a socialist with a business accumen =)
 
7:38 PM
@CaptainGiraffe closer to them physically, not closer to their views. I don't know what you're saying.
 
I'm at a complete loss as to how to debug my code :( It crashes before it actually reaches anything I'm aware of touching.
 
@MooingDuck I'm at a complete loss as how to write my code.
 
I'm pretty sure my coworker checked in broken code that only kinda sorta works, and causes my code to fail miserably, but my code is just fine :(
 
@MooingDuck all windows code?
 
7:40 PM
@CaptainGiraffe Wow, you guys have it easy. I have 20+ choices when voting.
 
@CaptainGiraffe yeah
 
@CaptainGiraffe Use Haskell.
@MooingDuck Does it enter main?
 
@CatPlusPlus ...looks pretty real? Shadows are a little funky, but could just be weird lights.
 
@MooingDuck Not a win expert, but yes does it enter main
 
@CatPlusPlus Sorry, haven't read them. If you really want my opinion I can check them out during the week.
 
7:41 PM
@SamDeHaan You lost. It's actually 3D render. :v
 
@SamDeHaan The texture seems wrong.... I say fake
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You're better at Haskell, of course I want your opinion.
 
Learn you a Haskell!
 
Back to Duck: do you debug right files? If it doesn't enter main, check entire DLL tree for obvious mislinkings (like debug and release CRT linked in at the same time).
Yes, it does happen.
Also different CRT versions linked in. It's usually not a problem when you don't pass CRT objects around DLL boundaries, but is still possible blow-up.
 
K, so poll time. say A, if you prefer the functional style and have to work to adapt to the c++ style. Say B if you like lambdas but are uncomfortable with ML, say C if you like C++ before templates.
 
7:45 PM
@CaptainGiraffe what kind of messed up poll is that?
 
That doesn't make any kind of sense.
 
@CatPlusPlus I wouldn't be surprised if it happened to him.
 
Half of STL is functional.
The other half is containers.
So "C++ style" is inherently functional.
Even if it's not immutable and lazily evaluated.
 
@CatPlusPlus every project in his tree is built with a different CRT version
Or was that @StackedCrooked?
 
I don't see why people want language-level lazy evaluation
 
7:47 PM
A
 
it's only useful in special cases
 
That's why you do both at language level.
 
@rubenvb ?
 
@CatPlusPlus This is very untrue, in my opinion
 
@CatPlusPlus Regular non-language-level lazy evaluation seems to be fine to me
 
7:48 PM
Well, strictness doesn't have to be at language level, but it's nice sugar.
I like my laziness.
I like infinite data structures. I like passing unevaluated computations around.
 
@StackedCrooked I guess not. nvm.
 
I prefer it as default.
And strictness as option.
 
Please pass me the sugar.
 
Because gods lazy folds.
foldl' power.
 
@CatPlusPlus really? what happened to predictability?
 
7:49 PM
It's perfectly predictable.
I deal with pure code most of the time. It's 100% predictable.
There's no option to make it non-predictable without explicitly tagging is as such.
As for low level details, fuck them.
 
@CatPlusPlus JNI. It enters my function, and the first thing it does is make a shallow copy of a pointer. Which gives me a null pointer error.
 
@CatPlusPlus true
 
You can profile and replace laziness with strict evaluation where it makes a difference.
Optimisation 101.
 
My grandmother warned me about laziness.
 
@MooingDuck Have you inspected the assembly?
This could mean stack corruption.
 
7:51 PM
@Chimera My dad told me laziness is ok
 
@CaptainGiraffe What a saint!
 
Run a static analyser over it, maybe it'll find something.
 
@CatPlusPlus looks like stack corruption to me, but that means the corruption is in code I didn't write :(
 
Well, then yell at the person who wrote it.
Problem solved.
 
s/yell at/shoot/
 
7:52 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes No, he has to fix it first, remember?
 
@CatPlusPlus it appears to be java.exe/Sun
 
@Chimera Yes he is. Also a master engineer. Machining amazing stuff in his garage.
 
Try with another version.
 
:)
 
sbi
I heard there was a shootout at Texas A&M university. Innat where our messiah teaches?
 
7:53 PM
Hm... still no luck with svn.. I give.
 
If you can reproduce, it's probably your code, but in a tricky place.
 
@CaptainGiraffe I am in awe of people who are wizards at machining and fabricating with machine.
 
@sbi today?
 
Check other JNI functions that are called before the one you're debugging.
 
sbi
@Steve A German weekly news magazine posted this on twitter.
 
7:54 PM
@Chimera I stand in awe of Papa when he does those things!
 
Maybe one of them leaves stack corrupted, and it just happens to manifest as JVM gets to your part of the code.
 
@MooingDuck I highly doubt that.
 
@sbi oh wow its all over cnn
 
@sbi Who?
 
@rubenvb me too, and that's why I'm confused and intimidated as to how to proceed.
 
Too fast.
I can't read.
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel parasol.tamu.edu/~bs
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Texans are crazy as usual. Duck blames Java.
 
@MooingDuck try to write a completely seperate toy JNI "Hello world" project.
And then build up to the current situation.
 
7:55 PM
@CatPlusPlus Oh, makes sense.
 
@rubenvb HAHAHAHA
 
I could write headlines for news outlets.
 
@sbi They shot Bjarne???
 
No, fuck guns. - Uhm people fire guns... No fuck guns.
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes No! I don't know! I was just asking, because I heard it was at TAMU.
 
7:56 PM
Fuck guns and people who fire them.
4
 
@CatPlusPlus Amen to that. And fuck robots who fire them.
 
sbi
Damn. I did not start this rumor.
 
Fuck people who say "Fuck guns".
 
7:56 PM
Yes, you did.
 
@sbi Of course not, I did.
 
@Chimera Fuck you.
 
Guns are a tool for killing people. There is no good purpose to guns.
 
@rubenvb And you as well. :-)
 
why is "Earth Unaware" (latest Ender's game, published July 17, 2012) out for Kindle, and "Shadows in Flight" (second latest Ender's game, published January 17, 2012) not out for kindle until February 1, 2013?
 
7:57 PM
@Chimera glad we agree on that :P
 
@CatPlusPlus Farmers, especially in places like Africa, use them to protect their livestock.
 
@MooingDuck That thing is still going?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes
 
@DeadMG And park guards to protect themselves, too.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Those basterds.
 
7:58 PM
@rubenvb See, it can happen.
 
:)
 
@DeadMG Well, okay.
 
@Chimera Pew pew.
 
Hmm, no one starred it. The rumour will not catch on :(
 
@DeadMG Guns in Africa are used to kill people. China, Israel and the US are the main suppliers. Thats not hunting guns.
 
7:58 PM
@MooingDuck Shadows in Flight was pretty decent, ignoring the whole point of your question. Earth Unaware... well, I'm holding out on that one.
 
Ok. OK.
Fuck people who shoot guns at other people.
 
Fuck people you love.
 
Still, it's a bit difficult to justify the need for automatic weapons. Especially since those have been designed specifically to kill humans.
 
What about them rhinos.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I really really needed to hit that squirrel ASAP.
2
 
7:59 PM
You 'ave to bazooka them like totally.
 
@CatPlusPlus Automatic weapons are not that good against 'em.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Most people don't carry around automatic weapons...
 
@CatPlusPlus Sure, because that M4 of yours will be so much useful in case a rhino crashes in your living room.
 
@MooingDuck A shotgun would be better.
 

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