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9:02 AM
He's gone...
lol
 
Ahahaha my webpage is apparently interesting enough to generate job offers
 
@CatPlusPlus you mean keyword heavy enough for bots to send job offers
 
It has literally no keywords
 
@CatPlusPlus lies
oh, I just saw the sleigh carry some one away
 
3 hours and I can go to sleep
This week is all wrong
 
9:07 AM
oh gawd
 
Uni has declared today Thursday, tomorrow Friday, Thursday Monday and Friday Tuesday
 
I don't if you know, Mr. Cat, but you're quite depressing. Sort it out, will ya?
 
It makes sense apparently
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion So you think!. And then daddy shoots through the door at the most unexpected moment and whacks you over the head for being nasty!
 
How's that nasty?
lol
 
9:09 AM
I shit you not, this is an actual real thing
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus From what I hear, it's this live that sucks for you, not this week. Luckily, you have 8 more lives.
 
Life
is the singular
 
sbi
I am so not going to fix that.
 
I think that's a German thing, no?
mixing up f and v
cause it's not the first time you've done that
@sbi you rebel, refusing to fix a spelling mistake on the Internet :P
@CatPlusPlus so I wonder, do you bitch as much IRL too?
 
@sbi what if I also point out that you are wrong?
 
9:13 AM
About things that make no fucking sense? Everyone I know does
 
lol, what the hell @cat
how did you end up at at that uni?
 
It's the best one around :negative:
 
really?
 
but why go to uni if you hate it anyways?
you could just have gone and found a job? no?
that's what I did...
lol
 
if the best uni in Poland doesn't know what day of the week is what, I wonder how Poland has managed to be a country
 
9:15 AM
It's Poland...
 
They know, they just decided to swap 'em around
It's usually done to even out differences with holidays or whatnot
But this week, this week is fucking ridiculous
 
It makes no sense whatsoever
 
@TonyTheLion Inertia
 
9:16 AM
'morning
 
@TonyTheLion I already have one
@thecoshman Best uni in this city/area, not Poland
I'm not moving to some distant shithole to go to uni there
 
@CatPlusPlus Best response EVAR.
0
Q: Alphanumeric to numeric in c ambiguity

AymanadouAll, functions which check and covert if a string is a numerical or not such as atol and atoi ... I checked in c/c++ reference in atol description and it was written like this in the case of absence of any numeric in the string. no conversion is performed and zero is returned. Obviously ...

fail
 
I've started it, so I'm finishing it
 
and getting the grade? Unlike Mr. Puppy.
 
I have no current motivation whatsoever, though, hence it's only inertia at this point
 
9:18 AM
@CatPlusPlus ah, so you live in the inbred region of Poland?
 
oh wow.
 
@thecoshman Er, no
 
He's just too lazy to move elsewhere
for the sake of a Uni
 
@CatPlusPlus makes you better then the puppy :P
 
It makes no sense to move for that
Literally everyone I know is either here or in my home city 60km away
Also it's fourth biggest city in the country
 
9:20 AM
oh wow
 
So yeah, fuck moving to get a retarded degree at some remote city I don't care at all about
Not like CS degrees get any better than this shit I go through right now
 
prolly not
judging by Puppies rants
 
@CatPlusPlus: "I have no current motivation whatsoever". I hear you. I have a talk on friday and haven't even read all chapters yet.
 
I should be glad than, I never got put through a degree
 
9:25 AM
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: We have no current motivation whatsoever. [bewbz-only] [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [rubiks-cube]
 
@TonyTheLion you can hardly take the word of two wingie feckers
 
@TonyTheLion Now that's it official I can just quit work for today.
 
sbi
@thecoshman I wouldn't even spend the effort to laugh about it.
 
@sbi you were wrong
shut it
 
sbi
What is "bewbz", BTW? An iteration of "newbz"?
 
9:27 AM
@sbi 'bewbz' => (.)(.)
 
sbi
Oops.
You guys are very single-minded, really. Well, dual-minded, actually. They do come in pairs, after all.
 
yeah, you here/see it now don't you :P
 
@thecoshman I know I can't, but they're the only ones ever talking about their CS degree.
 
sbi
@thecoshman I am not hear, so I can't here you.
 
@sbi ¬_¬ I see what you did tear
@TonyTheLion every one else just gets on with it
 
sbi
9:30 AM
@TonyTheLion That's genuinely not true. I am sure I talked about my degree, and it wasn't all bad.
 
oh well
it's Monday morning, maybe I feel like bitching too.. so I agree with bitchy cat and dog
 
sbi
In fact, one of my closer friends used to be a professor of mine.
 
So I have a class with only getters and setters
I feel like I'm in .NET land
 
I actually enjoyed most of more course. there was the odd stupid module that I just failed to see the point of, but it offered easy marks, such as OO with Java and Web Dev ¬_¬
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion Ugh. That's the moment I am going to leave.
 
9:33 AM
@TonyTheLion that's not all bad... depends what these *tters are doing
 
@thecoshman setting guts of the class
 
@sbi ¬_¬ according to the user thingy, you just left and came back at the same time
@TonyTheLion if they are basically just wrapping a private field, with no manipulation or validation, then poor design
 
@thecoshman of course it's not all that bad, it's frecking terrible
 
like wise, perhaps they used to do something of that sort though, and are kept in for backwards compatibility
 
it's auto generated code
meh
 
9:36 AM
The main problem I have with *tters is that needless boiler plate
 
wrong level of abstraction
that's the biggest issue
could as well use a struct with just some public variables
would be much simpler
 
I do like though when they are combined, such that you have a T property()' function that will return the value and a T property(T newValue)` that is used to set the new value and returns what it was set too, thus allowing for some easy validation such as if(foo.property(newValue) != newValue){ /* handle error */ }
again, it depends on what exactly you are doing
 
but why make the variable private if you're going to use it outside of the class anyways
you're violating the whole idea of encapsulation
 
if the object is just some sort of data object that is created just to be passed into a function, then of course get rid of the *tters
a) it may have been a through back to when the code was not simply accessing the private field
b) it allows for seamless transition to not storing the private field as you where at first
c) it is actually BETTER encapsulation, as exactly how the data is stored is hidden from the user, they just know how to get and set it
d) you may not want the user to be able to both get and set
e) if well done, adds no real burden to the user
 
9:44 AM
I'd say the most compelling argument though is compatibility, if you sue *tters, you cna change the data all you want
you can change variables to no longer be stored, they could just be calculated as required
or what ever
 
dude, you're trying to convince me that *tters are a good thing?
you're barking up the wrong tree
 
not really
 
oh ok
just making sure that that's clear
 
anyone know how I can set up linux Eclipse with gcc snapshot?
 
9:46 AM
but I would say that if they are there in a class already, suck it. You can't undo it
 
@thecoshman since it's auto generated, I can't undo it
 
@thecoshman its not off topic?
 
so I have to suck it up
and live with it
@soandos read the Newbie Hints please!
 
It's always off topic
 
@TonyTheLion not sure which part im violating in that
 
9:48 AM
@TonyTheLion if you are just creating the class, then obviously you can get rid of any auto-generated stuff
@soandos the 'we don't give a fuck' part
 
@thecoshman could have just left it alone then no?
 
@soandos you could have read the newbie hints no?
 
ok back to business
 
Hi all, just trying this out
 
9:53 AM
Hi
 
@reedvoid Hi
 
10:14 AM
> TL;DR browser add-on... because your time is precious!
we need that
 
@thecoshman you're absolutely right of course. Only, people always forget about APIs and layering of abstraction. If this is some kind of public API and the class models behaviour (e.g. getIncomeTaxPercentage() trumps taxEngine.m_incomeTaxPercentage(). However, if it is a regular data-transfer object, things are very different: if (docTaxForm.incomeTaxPercetange>40) { stream << docTaxForm; } makes perfect sense. A lot more than with getters?setters, actually
@TonyTheLion If your time is precious, install /dev/null browser addon!
 
@JerryCoffin I won't! Promise
 
Is that Als? Guess Als got a name change.
 
@sbi Just where do you get pictures like that
"Nice save"...
Seems appropriate there
 
10:25 AM
lol
 
10:43 AM
@sehe oh for sure. did I not say clearly enough that for data objects simply having public variables makes more sense?
 
lol
Actually, larious could be someone's name. Couldn't it?
 
ew, Java doesn’t have polymorphic lambdas? That is, you cannot write x -> 3 * x, you have to cast explicitly?!
 
eh
C++ doesn't have polymorphic lambda's either, right?
 
@TonyTheLion Yes but C++ screwed up :p
that is, they had a very good technical reason for not introducing polymorphic lambdas in C++ but in the meantime they’ve found a fix for that
 
10:47 AM
oh what else is new?
 
so hopefully we’ll get polymorphic lambdas soon
 
@KonradRudolph I think java 8 will bring that
 
@TonyTheLion Image not found
 
@bamboon Well not according to that thread, but OP may simply be mistaken
 
10:50 AM
@KonradRudolph oh ok, dangerous half knowledge was speaking here.
 
same here ^^
 
@KonradRudolph interesting, what were those problems?
 
thanks
 
@Pubby I'd say, if you don't know the answer, do not say anything, please. — Martin 3 mins ago
I guess people don't like an explanation of why I downvoted them.
 
11:16 AM
Wait. What is the cast doing there? Would it take triple to be Object? Do you recommend casting to Integer then, instead of int? — sehe 10 secs ago
 
@sehe To be honest, I’m not that interested in Java. With a bit of luck I will never have to use it again.
 
@KonradRudolph That's not necessarily polymorphic. In C#, that syntax would be enabled by just inferring types from context, usually.
@KonradRudolph Me too. I'm just wondering aloud there
 
@sehe that’s polymorphic – think of it inside a generic function whose type you are using implicitly in the lambda
 
Compiletime polymorphic. I'd just call it what it is: type deduction. The type deduction enables compile time polymorphism
But many many other things enable compile-time polymorphism, for ages now. Even in VB :)
 
is decltype a runtime or compile time construct?
 
11:21 AM
it acts on types, so it must be compiletime
 
what?
 
for whatever reason I considered it runtime... I never even asked myself this question before now
anyway, I've never had a reason to use it
 
@DeadMG in the context of C++, that makes sense
@TonyTheLion Are you using c++?
 
yes
but I'm no hipster that uses decltype
 
11:26 AM
well, I don't know of any other language with decltype
 
mainly cause I never really understood it's use very well
 
decltype(expr) gives the type of expr.
 
@DeadMG "it acts on types so it must be" -> implies you answered a broader question
 
@sehe It doesn't and I didn't.
 
@TonyTheLion typeof was already taken :) also decltype is slightly more expressive. To standards lawyers :)
@DeadMG Check your logic. "It (propertyA) so (impliedPopertyB)" doesn't talk about any specific object with (propertyA). I didn't say you meant it that way. Which is why I didn't correct you. I just added the required context to make it make the more sense.
 
11:30 AM
well, considering that he's asking about a C++ language feature, I'm happy to say that "For C++" is implied.
the only language feature in C++ that operates on types at runtime is typeid.
 
right
I see some pedantry going on
 
of course you do
 
He has great eyesight, being of feline family
 
11:44 AM
@Mysticial it will have corroded, but if it dried out completely, it wouldn't be deadly to eat.
Oh wait, you didn't touch the resume since 200
 
user1182183
11:55 AM
srsly whoever invented the "loose indentation warning" in PAWN is a douchebag. Why does indentation matter so much for the compiler? :o
 
Xeo
@KonradRudolph Wtf the duck ones.
 
Xeo
@Neil There's a screencap with a ton of funny router names
 
> For me, that makes a thirtieth printing kind of a big deal. It’s also a somewhat ironic deal, because, for many years, More Effective C++ was a book I wasn’t especially fond of. Only its longevity has allowed me to develop an admiration and respect for it. Scott Meyers
> Detail-oriented readers will notice 31 copies of the domestic version. That's because there were two versions of the third printing.
lol
 
Xeo
12:26 PM
Hm, I have an appointment in 2 hours to help fix someones PC. I don't feel like going, I'd rather sleep. :(
 
TIL sizeof(wchar_t) == 4
 
Xeo
not everwhere
 
It seems to be on LWS
 
2 on VS 4 on GCC
 
Xeo
Windows has it at 2, IIRC
 
12:29 PM
also, how does that conversion from std::wstring to std::string happen when you pass it in the ctor with iterators?
I guess it has no real unicode support
 
Xeo
It doesn't, atleast not very nicely.
 
so any unicode stuffs would have no guarantees
 
Xeo
And a good stdlib might reject iterators to anything other than a value_type, really.
 
Xeo
Atleast for the char and wchar_t value_types
 
12:31 PM
is it better to use streams to convert between std::string and std::wstring or does the ctor method work as well?
 
@TonyTheLion Yep. The existing Standard Library has absolutely no useful Unicode support whatsoever
@TonyTheLion You can't really convert between them without platform-specific or third-party functionality.
 
Xeo
@TonyTheLion You can't use anything to meaningfully convert between std::string and std::wstring.
 
oh
so using the winapi provided functions to convert from wide to whatever is what should be used on Windows?
 
@TonyTheLion There's no way to convert with just the Standard library.
 
Did a short presentation introducing C++11 features for my co-workers today; do you think that's something that'd be worth doing up a screencast of?
 
12:35 PM
hmmm
I think they could use that here, but I won't be the one to give it
 
But you think it'd be useful if you could link a YouTube clip to people, or similar?
I'll streamline the code samples and get it done anyway.
 
right
 
Xeo
Never wrong to have more introductions to C++11, as long as it's good. :)
 
but there's plenty of interwebs articles etc that go over c++11 features
Herb Sutter has done a few talks on it
and others
 
Yeah, but my audience isn't really inclined to follow those on their own. They're all Java coders that resent having to use C++ at all
 
Xeo
12:40 PM
Hm, this is bad. My map generated a mini jungle that has tons of decaying tree leafs it seems, which leave behind sapling and apples - which lag my game since there's a ton of em at the same time.
 
My architect today mentioned that he'd been forgoing iterators in favor of for (int x = 0; x < list.size(); x++)
 
Xeo
o_x
Wait, that doesn't even make sense for std::list (if that's what list is)
 
generally for anything that provided an operator[]
 
> Red Star - North Korea's own custom-built operating system, reportedly commissioned by the late Kim Jong-il himself.
dafuq
 
@TonyTheLion At least you can trust it.
 
Xeo
12:43 PM
In what way? That it'll nuke all other OS from the HDD if it detects a side-by-side install?
 
(joke)
related topic: for the most part, my go-to stl collection is deque - thoughts?
 
Xeo
Should be std::vector
std::deque is fragmented across the heap
aka not contiguous.
 
I disagree
 
Sure, but vector has its own issues
 
you don't really need contiguous in many cases
 
Xeo
12:45 PM
@rvalue And that'd be what in comparision to std::deque
 
n- insertion and deletion; and that growth case is a bitch
 
deque offers superior algorithmic complexity for many operations and better pointer invalidation semantics
 
Xeo
@DeadMG "many"?
 
@DeadMG I understand that it's somewhat like a list of vectors, correct?
 
North Korea is a scary place.
 
12:50 PM
@Xeo the case of insertion into vector requiring up to 3n * sizeof(T) space has screwed me pretty hard on at least one occasion
 
@rvalue No- vector of arrays
 
Xeo
@DeadMG vector of pointer to arrays
 
@DeadMG ah, that's the trick for the O(1) random access, I'd wager
 
@rvalue you're so temporary. :P
 
@TonyTheLion Just don't keep me around too long
Speaking of which, the missus calls; good night, all.
 
12:52 PM
lol
 
Which Boost.Phoenix header is the modern one in 1.42?
boost/spirit/home/phoenix.hpp?
 
doesn't it state it in the docs?
 
1:08 PM
@wilx boost/phoenix/phoenix.hpp is V3, the spirit one is V2
 
Thanks.
 
@wilx Instead just #define BOOST_SPIRIT_USE_PHOENIX_V3 before include Spirit headers. That way, it doesn't matter which ones you inlcude
 
I don't think that 1.42 has Phoenix v3, or does it?
 
@wilx IIRC it did
 
Ok, I'll check.
 
1:12 PM
 
sbi
> Best advice for coding in Java? Do some FP to disabuse you of some of the poor control-flow and naming practices that have become Java norm. — Kevlin Henney
 
@thecoshman I was banned from there.
 
@TonyTheLion lol, all the questions please
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion You posted too many slutty pix?
 
No, the meme is to ban everyone
 
1:19 PM
@TonyTheLion ah I see...
 
@thecoshman Hehe .. Kim Jong...Kim Jong...Kim Jong...Kim Jong...Kim Jong...Kim Jong...Kim Jong...Kim Jong... DPRK would be really funny except for the military/nukes etc.
 
sbi
@sehe In this case I really forgot. It was one of the many tabs I have open which I meant to look at and use for something, some day. (Which, really, I now did.) I am sure google image search can find you places this is shown at.
 
r/murica was at war with r/pyongyang at one stage, then they got banned
lol
 
sbi
@sehe For me, the most important sentence in that article is Scott's comment:
> I hope to write Effective C++11 next year — Scott Meyers
 
1:38 PM
I need to parse a boolean value which is represented via “+” or “-” – how do I do this best? I thought about something along the lines of bool b; std::cin >> as_bool("+", "-", b);
… but that doesn’t make it clear which value is represented by which symbol.
 
indeed
who had the idea of representing bool with + or -
just pass in a bool and return whatever is appropriate depending on bool state
to_symbol(bool b)
symbolize(bool b)
some such thing
 
@TonyTheLion Nobody, I just choose to represent the actual state as a boolean in the code
@TonyTheLion That does the opposite of what I need
 
user142019
What do the + and - represent?
 
user142019
Maybe you could use an enum : bool instead.
 
@Zoidberg'-- positive and negative DNA strangs
@Zoidberg'-- Yes, actually
 
1:44 PM
@KonradRudolph oh I see, you have a + or - and want a bool as output?
 
@TonyTheLion exactly
 
user142019
enum class strang : bool {
    negative = false,
    positive = true
};
 
ah, well that wasn't obvious from your example.
 
user142019
Then it’s immediately clear what means what.
 
so you are reading in the data as either a '+' char or a '-' char... why not just store them as chars?
 
1:44 PM
enum sounds like an idea
because he wants bool obviously?
duh
 
I fail to see the point in twating around trying to convert the data from one type to another for no good reason
 
@thecoshman Nah, the information isn’t logically a char. An enum would be a solution but at the moment I just store the information as is_positive
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph Representing a value that can be positive or negative by using a data type that can be true or false sounds Wrong™, IYAM.
 
@KonradRudolph in what format are you reading in the data?
 
@sbi But that’s not what I’m doing: I have a value that represents whether the thing is positive – as in, is_this_positive
@thecoshman What do you mean by that?
@sbi That said, I prefer the enum now
 
sbi
1:48 PM
enum dna_strang {
  dna_positive = '+',
  dna_negative = '-'
};
 
@KonradRudolph how is this value getting into you app, is it a string, a char etc.
 
@thecoshman It’s a file stream
 
sbi
@KonradRudolph if( dna == dna_positive ) ?
 
@sbi Well, if (strand == positive), but yes
 
nvm
I made the sad mistake of going into another room ¬_¬
 
sbi
1:50 PM
The thing is, when you have to ask "how do I map x to y?", then you first need to ask yourself "should I map x to y?", because if the mapping isn't totally obvious, it's probably the wrong thing to do.
@thecoshman Which one was that? The restroom?
 
PHP room, surely :P
it's easy to troll that one
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion Isn't that just what I asked?
 
@sbi I still think that the mapping is fine because in my domain it makes sense to ask the question if (strand.is_positive) … but I do agree that enums map this slightly better
 
I trolled a friend of mine on his use of PHP yesterday
@sbi oh so, restroom == php room?
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion --count_of_friends
 
1:52 PM
no actually
 
@sbi ¬_¬
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion More like template<class country> class php_room : private toilet<country> {...}; where there's a typedef toilet<Merkia> restroom;`.
 
@TonyTheLion you 'trolled a friend on his use of PHP'?
 
sbi
@thecoshman Yesterday. Yep, that's what he said. Good to know you can read.
 
and people please, it is not a room for resting in, it is a closet for keeping your water in
 
1:54 PM
lol
 
you grow tiring @sbi
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion Just wrap it in a std::asynch() and wait.
 
he's an old and grumpy ape
you should expect that
 
sbi
@thecoshman I am not sure the lion still grows, but if he does, he certainly isn't tiring me by doing so.
 
user142019
data Strand = Negative | Positive

parseStrand :: Parser Strand
parseStrand = (char '-' >> Negative) <|> (char '+' >> Positive)
 
1:55 PM
ew, enum classes don’t inherit the streaming operators from their underlying types?
 
user142019
@KonradRudolph no, of course not. They don’t implicitly convert either.
 
@TonyTheLion this pleases me :)
 
@Zoidberg'-- Completely different thing
 
@sbi dafuq? You have an interesting way of turning something that was meant against you, to someone else.
 
sbi
1:56 PM
@TonyTheLion I want that pic with a dodo. please. With Pickwick, preferably.
 
@thecoshman erm...
Pickwick is a musical with a book by Wolf Mankowitz, music by Cyril Ornadel, and lyrics by Leslie Bricusse. Based on The Pickwick Papers by Charles Dickens, it is set in and around London and Rochester in 1828. Produced by Bernard Delfont, Pickwick premiered in the West End in 1963, with Harry Secombe in the lead role and choreography by Gillian Lynne. Plot Set in England in 1828, the story centres on wealthy Samuel Pickwick and his valet Sam Weller, who are in a debtors' prison where they recall the misadventures that led to their imprisonment. On the previous Christmas Eve, Pickwick ...
@sbi with a musical?
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion No, a dodo named Pickwick, you illiterate brat!
 
and it gets worse
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion Actually, for a foreigner it's much easier to see the strangeness in some phrases than for a native speaker.
 
I don’t like enum classes
 
1:59 PM
@TonyTheLion it brought a smile to me face, is that such a crime?
 
sbi
11 mins ago, by sbi
enum dna_strang {
  dna_positive = '+',
  dna_negative = '-'
};
 
@thecoshman no, but I may have interpreted that the wrong way.
 
sbi
@thecoshman What else but crime would make a pirate smile?
 
@sbi I don’t use weakly typed enums (haven’t even before C++11), I consider them flawed
 

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