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user406009
5:00 PM
Most math is done on a system where positive y is up.
 
user406009
Arbitrarily choosing +y = down just creates confusion.
 
Xeo
It's not really arbitary, though. Think old CRTs and how drawing something happens there.
The center (0/0) is the top-left.
 
Meh, just project into that coordinate system in the end.
 
Xeo
Aye, I wouldn't worry about the system. Choose one for yourself and abstract it with a projection matrix or something.
 
user406009
That is what I usually do. But it just always feels like extra work for little reason.
 
5:04 PM
It costs you one matrix multiplication per frame (if at all). If you cannot afford that, you probably cannot afford anything.
 
Xeo
@Lalaland As I said, there is reason for positive y to go down.
And actually, for most 2D stuff +y is down, IIRC. In 3D, it's the other way around.
 
yeah, AFAIK, a lot of 2D stuff is 0,0 top left, so +y is down and +x is right.
but in 3D I usually use an LH perspective, so +Z is away, +Y is up, and +X is right
 
Xeo
aye
 
Ell
130,050 polys for terrain is too much isn't it?
 
no.
the number of polys really isn't that important as long as you're not going over VRAM
 
Xeo
5:19 PM
Also, it's important how many of them you actually draw (if you're concerned about framerate)
 
Ell
hmm interesting
I was drawing all of them a second ago
and getting 16 fps
 
Xeo
Do you actually have all of them on the screen?
 
Ell
yeah, but I need to reduce it massively anyway
I barely even need them
In my game, all regions are mostly flat, with some mountainous areas and some rivers
but elevation is only for aesthetic reasons, all that matters is buildable/not and ground/water
 
I'm super smart. I disabled password logins through SSH, but did not add any authorized public key. Then I logged out.
8
 
Xeo
haha
 
Ell
5:22 PM
lol
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Good thing flashing a new image is easy...
 
I guess it's time to flash a new image...
@JerryCoffin Yeah.
 
Ell
I'm super smart and have passwordless login on my phone :P
 
This is how you cast from double to int in Java:
0
A: How do I cast a double to an int in Java?

GanGnaMStYleOverFlowErroRdouble is a primitive,try Double wrapper instance. Double b = Math.sqrt(absoluteNumber); int c = b.intValue();

 
5:25 PM
And another answer with that... geez
 
@Mysticial "How do I add 1 and 1 in Java? Can anybody help me? Pretty please? I need to turn in a finished compiler on Monday, and I'm having a hard time getting started."
 
@JerryCoffin There's that one fake screenshot about how to add two numbers with jQuery.
 
You suck.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes And an appropriate deleted question modelled after that. :)
 
5:27 PM
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes bobince, apparently.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think that may have been a reference to the screenshot
 
@LucDanton Oh
lol Timothy Goatse.
 
@Mysticial o_O Trolling at it's finest.
 
Xeo
@Mysticial I just looked at the "Related" links for the first time.
 
5:29 PM
ROFLMAO
Where are my legs?
 
@Xeo oh wow, I never looked at those... lol
 
Holy shit I'm going to look at those.
 
Xeo
> How can I extract number from HTML using a regex without ZALGO singing the song that ends the world?
 
Xeo
Hai hai.
 
5:30 PM
Damnit, the Where are my legs question isn't around anymore. =[
 
Xeo
You do know that the screenshot is fake, right?
 
@ThePhD Pro-tip: the posted fake screenshot is not real.
 
Sheepishly leaves the room.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Obvious question: Would it be possible for a (posted or otherwise) fake screenshot to be real?
 
Flashing done. Let's go for another spin. Sigh.
 
5:33 PM
What's the difference between public v. private keys?
 
One is public, the other is private.
 
I've seen people talk about them related to crypto but I don't understand why one is considered 'public' and the other 'private'.
 
Because one can be public, and the other cannot.
 
It's safe to give everyone your public keys. It is not safe to give your private keys to anyone.
The names really are self-explanatory.
hilarious, just seen Spanish reporter in Kevlar and helmet on feed reporting from Gaza, live report finishes, he takes them both off.
 
5:39 PM
@ThePhD There's no real difference between the two. What's encrypted with either one can be decrypted with the other. So, you publish one, any anybody can use that to encrypt "stuff". Only somebody with the other key can decrypt it again. To accomplish anything, you need to keep one of the keys secret.
 
@JerryCoffin So to have a two-way conversion with someone, you just share your public keys with each other and then send messages using the respective recipient's keys?
 
Xeo
Yeah, that's the gist of it. However, the act of sharing the keys can also be problematic.
 
@ThePhD Yes. Note, however, that a PK cryptography is really slow, so what you usually do is pick a random number, use it as a key to encrypt the other data, and use the public key to encrypt only the key you picked for the rest of the data.
 
@Xeo You only need to share the public key. And that you can do by posting it on this chat or whatever.
 
@Xeo Why is two people exchanging public keys a problem? Isn't that what they were designed for?
Or is there some known exploit?
 
Xeo
5:43 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Man-in-the-Middle attack?
 
Because when you have a public key you have no idea who has the private key. Encrypting a message with a public key is sending a message in a bottle, and all you know is that someone has a corkscrew.
 
Sharing public keys just gives security, not authentication though -- it encrypts the message, so outsiders can't read it, but does not prevent a man in the middle attack. The attacker sends his own public key to both parties who want to communicate. As a message comes in, he decrypts it, re-encrypts with the other party's key, and sends it along.
 
@Xeo That's a different issue.
 
So then you'd also need a way to verify the identity of the sender.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes When I said "keys", I meant the public key of both parties.
 
5:45 PM
@ThePhD Believe or not, but it's unsolved. Enjoy the next time you log in to your bank account!
 
@LucDanton No money = no bank account. :3c
Allllllllllllll casshhhh.
I'm rolling pretty deep, y'know. With my 5 bucks left over.
Wallet's heavy as shit.
 
@cat what version of python you got on your build bot server?
 
@ThePhD Exactly -- and it turns out that's really quite a bit harder (probably impossible, unless you take some shortcuts). The usual way is to associate a key with (for example) a domain, and create a signed certificate for others to verify. You trace those signatures back to a few people you trust implicitly.
 
I don't know, I don't have time to sort it out
There's also a chance that I'm not going to renew the server.
 
@CatPlusPlus :O
when it run out?
 
5:48 PM
Cat is planning to do a Domagoj on us!
 
@JerryCoffin So that's how the publishing system works, and how Windows applications are tagged by their 'Publishers' and when UserAccountControl annoys the shit out of me it checks the application's binary data's signature against some database that ships with windows or in the cloud.
 
16.12
 
I don't know why, but I've got it into my head his name was spelt 'Domanjo' :P
 
Where did Domagoj go?
 
@Pubby No one knows. That's the point.
 
5:48 PM
I don't know, I need to look around for something cheaper maybe.
 
Where did Domagoj come from?
 
@CatPlusPlus I take it you can only pay for year contracts?
 
@ThePhD Yup, that's pretty much it. In this case, the party you "trust implicitly" is mostly Microsoft.
 
No, month, 3, 6 or 12.
 
@Pubby No one knows. That's the point.
 
5:49 PM
@thecoshman You an echo pirate now?
 
@CatPlusPlus well, I am going to be buying in the new year, just waiting so that renew payment is not at xmas :P
 
Speaking of, I used pirate stuff for those plots.
 
So it's still safer to do There-And-Back-And-There-Again encryption?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes no, just just lame attempt at humour
 
5:50 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes R!
 
@ThePhD Encryption is safe (well, for now).
@ThePhD Trust is something else.
 
There is another model that lets you select who you want to trust. Basically, let anybody sign somebody else's key, and others can choose chains of people they're wiling to trust. For example, Robot visits sbi, and sbi signs his key, verifying who he is. I can then decide (for example) to trust anybody whose key sbi has signed.
 
R costs dubloons? I thought it was open source.
 
@ThePhD Certificates are signed by certificate authorities. You've got trusted CAs in the database.
 
@Pubby Arrr!
 
5:51 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Thank you.
 
I wonder if using Amazon wouldn't be cheaper.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Shiver me timbers and hand over the booty
 
@CatPlusPlus do they do just fixed hosting plans?
 
@CatPlusPlus Two problems with that though: considering how little real verification they do, most root CAs are worthy of very little real trust. Second, (at least as it currently exists) it depends on DNS being accurate, which is hardly guaranteed either.
 
5:53 PM
What DNS?
 
@JerryCoffin How do you know sbi signed the key? Is that some special magic number or digital signature that's tacked onto it?
Er. A digital signature that's unreadable by others, that is.
I guess what I'm saying is, how do you know sbi signed it for realsies?
 
Signature must be readable by others.
You can encrypt a checksum with your private key.
 
@ThePhD sbi would encrypt a hash of my key with his private key. If you decrypt that with his public key, and the hash matches my key's, it's cool.
 
And then you attach your public key to the certificate.
 
@ThePhD Yes -- certificates contain spots to store signatures. So, for example, if I get sbi's public key directly, I can verify any other certificate he's signed.
 
5:54 PM
If someone tampers with the key, the hashes won't match. Hopefully.
 
You start by assuming that some authentication is legitimate, and then by transitive closure anything that is signed with that is just as legitimate.
 
I still don't understand why this build is suddenly complaining about python version @cat
 
I just wanted to say 'transitive closure'.
 
I've changed distributions, and Arch has Python 3 as default probably.
 
Kyrostat still doesn't build?
WTF.
 
5:55 PM
Buildbot is out, I don't know if it builds or not.
 
Can I laugh?
 
I also don't really care.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes it does, but not via build bot :P
 
@LucDanton I have a feeling you misused.
 
Kyrostat gets mentioned a lot in this chat, I should look it up....
GERMAN.
I can't read it. D:
 
5:57 PM
@ThePhD you ain't going to find much
 
@LucDanton Should it not be "(...) by transitivity (...)", or "the transitive closure of 'signed with that' is just as legitimate"?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Aw.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Watch where you click.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I can't quite notice the difference between the two at this time.
 
EC2 is complicated
 
5:58 PM
@thecoshman One german wikipedia article, the rest are Steam-related and starcraft-related players.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Except in the case of a hash like MD-5 that's actually been broken, the chances are generally pretty acceptable by most people's standards (e.g., much lower than the chances of being struck by lightning).
 
But that might very well be the case.
 
@ThePhD it's an in house project, that is very slow moving.
 
Pro-tip: if you want to use big words for the sake of it, look them up first.
:P
lol, "very slow".
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Some people (or robots) ruin all the fun.
 
5:59 PM
:(
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes What? They're not big. Plus at worse it's a type error, the intent is still here!
 
Hasn't MD-5 been all-but-ejected from common cryptography, because it's been proven breakable?
 
to be fair, it's had very few people actually working on it
 
You only need to look up the big words before using if you're using them to try to impress somebody. If you don't mind the possibility of looking mildly foolish, jump right in!
 
How is it that there are no cheaper VPSes than my dedicated server.
 
6:00 PM
@ThePhD it's a hash, you can't 'break' it as such. But you can use rainbow tables that can be used to work out likely plain text to generate such a hash
 
It's weird.
 
Cicada seemed fairly confident that it was about as cheap as you can get
 
There are Google hits for 'by transitive closure' though. Not to say I used it right, but I don't think I made it up.
 
VPS....
 
6:02 PM
Rainbow tables are not collisions.
 
@ThePhD Nobody in their right mind would use it, but nearly all the root certificate authorities will still accept it! A paper has been published demonstrating a real exploit based on this.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah, you can find an alternative plain text that matches the initial hash, but AFAIK you still have no way of actually finding the original plain text, other then deducing it
 
Bah, I'll renew it, I need reliable DNS at the very least.
 
@JerryCoffin .... o_O; That's concerning. I think I wouldn't mind the double-transfer of information to ensure it's absolutely trusted and safe, though public key does sound nice and all.
Also, TIL: VPS means Parallels Desktop on a machine box.
 
@CatPlusPlus how can DNS not be reliable? it's so simple
 
6:05 PM
If you don't control it, it's not reliable.
 
@ThePhD Virtual Private Server.
 
@thecoshman That's irrelevant for the case at hand. It means I might be able to produce a key that has the same hash, and thus would not be considered tampered with by the signature. You would accept that then.
 
@thecoshman I know, I was just simplifying it for myself.
 
@thecoshman Google for (for one example) "DNS Poisoning".
 
@CatPlusPlus but how hard can it be to pay for a domain that points to the ip of your server?
 
6:05 PM
Eh?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh sure
 
Is it still Cat's fault?
 
@Chimera probably :P
 
:-)
So I'm not happy that I upgraded to Windows 8. Just too many problems with drivers and some application compatibility issues. Should have waited until at least SP1
This early adopter shit is for the birds.
 
I don't see any reason to use Windows 8 over Windows 7.
There's no major feature that makes me go 'Yeah, I should upgrade, shouldn't I?'
 
6:10 PM
You should have waited until at least Windows 9.
 
Despite Microsoft shoving its dick in Developer's mouth and demanding you use Windows 8 to even affably poke the Windows Phone SDK 8.0, there's no real compulsion to use Windows 8 right now.
 
It was a major pain in the ass to get my D-Link wireless card working. While booting into Linux "it just fucking worked!"
 
@Chimera that's a rare treat
so few wireless cards have decent easy to get working drives on linux
 
That has not been my experience.
 
Ubuntu threw a rampage when I wanted to use a Wireless Card. ._.
 
6:13 PM
Should C++11 specific questions still have a C++ tag? Just rolled back an edit removing the C++ tag from such a question. stackoverflow.com/posts/13433196/revisions
 
Fedora was nicer.
 
I guess it depends on what brands you are using
 
ALOT of cards nowadays are using Qualcomm/Atheros chips... which linux supports very well.
 
@CodesInChaos still? They should always have.
C++11 is C++.
 
that's what I figured
 
6:14 PM
@ThePhD I think MS is trying to force the rapid development of apps for the app store to try and catch up to Android and iPhone apps.
 
Well, should C++11 questions still be tagged with C++11 instead of just C++?
 
@Sarang C++11 is C++. Please don't remove the tag from those questions. — R. Martinho Fernandes 25 secs ago
 
Ell
anyone know the name of that programme which shows a hierarchy of windows handles? to controls and windows and the like?
 
Xeo
@Pubby If the subject of the question is a specific C++11 feature, add the tag. If it just uses C++11 for convenience in the example or the use of C++11 features is unrelated to the problem, leave it out. That's my rule, anyways.
 
You know what?
STUPID PEER REVIEWERS.
 
Xeo
6:16 PM
Haha
 
That tag was removed by an user with 180 rep. Meaning two stupid fuckers accepted that stupid edit.
FUGihkaerhlbçhjetlnh,aET:_jmlk45qlhmb-
Can you tell I'm pissed?
 
Xeo
I wonder, do they only show edits on questions with a tag you're actually active in?
 
don't think so. I get plenty of things to review where I have no clue
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes No, I only see a cat walking over your keyboard.
 
@Ell Spy++ is one.
 
Xeo
6:19 PM
VC matches T<Fs> with std::vector<T>? Ew.
 
I think I need to use dynamic_cast
I've never used it before
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Please don't talk about "encrypt with primate key". Use some kind of standard signature scheme.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes The one that always bugs me is if I want to edit something, but some low-rep user has already edited. If I'd done the edit, it would show up immediately, but if I accept his edit, then it has to wait for somebody else to accept it as well. Makes no sense at all...
 
Xeo
@JerryCoffin Hit "improve"
And just send it off that way, with "the suggested edit was helpful" or however it's called.
 
@Xeo Yes -- still more nonsense to deal with...
 
6:24 PM
Ugh, why do people edit 'this link: example.com'; into 'this' (hyperlink)? It's not improving anything.
 
@Xeo Yeah, this is one of the worst features in the whole site.
@Pubby Sometimes it's making it worse, I'd say.
 
@Pubby IMO that's an improvement if "this" is a good name/description of the page, especially if the url is long
 
Also, screw people who put lots of links next to each other
Commas are nice
 
Xeo
@Pubby I like doing that when showing examples. "There have been many occurances lately" with every 2 words being a link.
 
bruce scheier loves that one
 
6:26 PM
@CodesInChaos I agree, but only when the article has a proper title. The description should be in the sentence before it.
 
I originally made emplace a function object rather than a function (template) because I thought that allowing both foo(emplace, bar, baz) and foo(emplace(bar, baz)) would be convenient. I'm not so sure anymore.
 
@Xeo Well screw you!
 
Xeo
:D
 
There have been many occurances lately:
1. http://example.com
2. http://example.com
^ ideal formatting
 
@Pubby That's useful if you're trying to inform. The link per word format is essentially a LMGTFY (i.e., at least mild sarcasm for having failed to look) in a format that hasn't been prohibited.
 
6:29 PM
Hmm. There are clang binaries in the repos, but not of libc++.
 
@R.Ma
dsfsqfsq
 
I give up.
 
@JerryCoffin You could probably use some superscript number thingy like Many such occurrences [1][2] where 1 and 2 are links
 
6:30 PM
@LucDanton Oh cool. I've been wanting some up. Do you pay for the postage to send it, or do I have to come and get it?
 
Behaviour of tab differs between systems and caught me by surprise, I think.
@JerryCoffin It's up to you.
 
What's up?
 
Xeo
Bad puns.
 
Bad upns.
Oh gawd, what have I done.
 
 
6:32 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Made the starboard, among other things.
 
Xeo
Cue TVTropes link?
 
Anyway I was wondering if you compiled wheels with Clang, and if so all of it or not.
 
Image not found
 
@LucDanton Haven't done so in a while. I was planning to try it soon.
 
Do you use it on other projects?
 
6:33 PM
Clang?
No.
 
Does anyone (here) even use Clang as their main compiler?
 
Xeo
I do for my stuff that I want to compile on both Windows and Linux
Which is just some hobby projects
And I seriously need to update my Clang snapshot..
Alright, afk to finally get my noodle soup that I've been craving for a week now.
 
What did you have to do to get money for it? Remember, you need at least one kidney.
Let's see if libc++ builds on ARM. I don't see why not but well.
 
user1804599
libc++ is on iOS, so it should build for ARM.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Anyway, should I assume that you've slowed down on wheels because you spend more of your free coding time on Ogonek now? And nothing to do with being done improving C++ right?
 
6:39 PM
@LucDanton Yeah.
 
I think I'm running out of ideas on my end. I said I wasn't going to do a Range library and I still haven't, but I still did a lot of range stuff. Probably going after MPL next.
 
@LucDanton A range library is what I will do next for ogonek. I need to get rid of that iterator mess I have.
I will go with minimalistic and specialized, though.
 
std::pair<Iter, Iter> then? Conceptually I mean.
 
lol, no.
Avoiding iterator pairs is the main motivation.
 
How is range-for compatibility going to work?
 
6:44 PM
@LucDanton I write begin and end ADL functions?
The point is that I only use begin and end at the top of an adaptor stack.
 
That sounds either ambitious or very limited.
 
@LucDanton Yeah, like I said, I won't mind limited, because this is for internal use.
 
Something like a core of slice/stride/map-transform/filter primitives?
 
The primitives I will go after are more like monadic bind (or LINQ SelectMany, or Scala's flatMap, or...)
 
Map, filter, fold?
 
6:49 PM
Those are so useful I will probably need them too.
But I wouldn't bother if those were all I wanted. Boost.Range has them.
/usr/include/gnu/stubs.h:7:11: fatal error: 'gnu/stubs-soft.h' file not found
# include <gnu/stubs-soft.h>
          ^
1 error generated.
Nope, package does not build out-of-the-box (mostly out-of-the-box: I had to manually add ARM to the list of architectures of the package).
:(
 
Is it too confusing use || to run several functions until one succeeds? e.g. foo() || bar() || qux();
 
user1804599
Not to me.
 
@Pubby I find that much more readable than if (!foo()) if (!bar()) qux();
 
Oh, libc++ builds with the soft FP ABI? Dammit.
Can I add defines through environment variables?
Wait, I got the bastard.
> clang: warning: unknown platform, assuming -mfloat-abi=soft
 

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