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sbi
6:00 PM
@FredOverflow Yeah, we're much cleverer.
 
Als
@JohannesSchaublitb: Thats @Neil Butterworth
 
Again?
 
sbi
48 mins ago, by Xaade
@sbi leaves and no one can conduct themselves.
 
sbi
@Xaade Remember, I have many kids, so I'm used to that.
And the kids are used to me bursting into the room, and banging their heads together when they expect me the least while breaking The Rules. So do be careful.
 
6:00 PM
@sbi Wait, what?
 
ooh, thanks for my Outspoken silver badge guys
 
Als
looks like he left again..
 
sbi
48 mins ago, by Tomalak Geret'kal
sbi only has two gold badges. that's a bit shit.
 
@sbi HAHAHAH.... Well, he didn't @ you, so I figured I'd turn a flashing sign into an exploding one.
 
sbi
@TomalakGeretkal I never understood the fuzz about badges. What are they good for, anyway?
 
6:01 PM
@sbi Pride.
 
the real reason he now has left is he sooo wanted the c++ gold badge a second time
 
sbi
47 mins ago, by Tomalak Geret'kal
Does anyone else get pissed off trying to click the tiny little "reply to this" icon all the bloody time? It's difficult to get to it when you can't even see it until you're really close.
@TomalakGeretkal Ctrl + +
 
@JohannesSchaublitb haha :P
@sbi Hmm?
 
@sbi Zoom, Zoom, Zoom???
 
Als
rep and badges...
 
6:02 PM
Indeed
 
@Als What exactly is he referring to with "brings out the worst in me"?
 
Als
badge whoring are we now
 
@FredOverflow Well he's a dick on SO tbh
 
sbi
@TomalakGeretkal That's what makes my browser zoom in. So you can see the little arrow for replying.
 
@sbi Oh. Lame.
 
6:03 PM
@sbi Ctrl [Mousewheel]
 
Als
@FredOverflow: I do not know... just saw his profile and noticed
 
jesus christ this is getting a little silly now:
1056
A: Local variable's memory can be accessed outside its scope?!

Eric Lippert How can it be? Isn't the memory of a local variable inaccessible outside its function? You rent a hotel room. You put a book in the top drawer of the bedside table and go to sleep. You check out the next morning, but "forget" to give back your key. You steal the key! A week later, you retu...

 
he wasn't a dick the first time. but he was a dick the second time he was around
 
sbi
@TomalakGeretkal Remember: I'm an old fart, and have no problem with admitting that my eyesight is lacking.
 
@JohannesSchaublitb sex change?
 
6:03 PM
something in him changed. perhaps he broke up with his bf
 
Als
@JohannesSchaublitb: Oh ya he was the second time around..I flagged him once
 
@Als So it's your fault!
 
Als
@CatPlusPlus: Huh!
 
@TomalakGeretkal Isn't that like 10k rep from one answer.
 
@sbi Same here, but that's still not the solution
 
6:05 PM
@Xaade Capped, only 215.
 
Als
@Xaade: lol rep count must've spoiled i!
 
@CatPlusPlus Per answer?
 
@Xaade It would be if not for the repcap
 
Or per day?
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus <sigh/> There's always someone who can't take a discrete hint. Here you go: If you can't conduct yourself, I might burst into the room at any minute and bang your heads together until you behave. Got this now?
 
6:05 PM
@Xaade Day
 
Als
per day
 
Right... so theoretically.... it could have been 10k
 
sbi
@TomalakGeretkal What? You are an old fart? You know, and I thought my avatar could be too misleading...
 
Yes, were it not impossible for it to be 10k, it would be 10k
 
6:06 PM
@sbi Oh, I got that. :P
 
@sbi You mean you don't actually look like that?
 
@TomalakGeretkal I didn't notice the date it was answered.
 
sbi
@TomalakGeretkal No, not at all. I look older, I am hairier, and I am much more grumpy than my avatar looks. :)
 
@Xaade OK, in fairness, had the votes come in slowly, he might have received 10k in total. But that would take a long time, and you know how recent this answer is!
 
If it were a 50 day old question and voted on 20 times a day.... then it would be 10k rep.
 
sbi
6:07 PM
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Where we randomly star useless messages
 
43 secs ago, by Xaade
@TomalakGeretkal I didn't notice the date it was answered.
 
pet hate: nerds showing off age in chatrooms
@Xaade You haven't been following the fact that it's one of the most famous things on the internet since today this morning?
 
sbi
@TomalakGeretkal Why do you hate your pet?
 
@Xaade And if he received no rep from anything else.
 
What are people tweeting it?
 
6:08 PM
@TomalakGeretkal Ah, he appended more text to the answer.
 
@sbi It makes me walk it.
holy fuck he HUGEISED IT
@Xaade Spolsky tweeted it this morning. Keep up!
 
@TomalakGeretkal My gah.... sorry for not analyzing every detail.... I was just saying that, that many votes on one answer could become 10k.... which goes to show that rep isn't all that accurate.
 
i liked it better when it were short
now it's too big imo
 
@Xaade and @Tomalak are mutually exclusive.
 
@JohannesSchaublitb me too
 
sbi
6:10 PM
@TomalakGeretkal Ah, I hate those, too. But then I never had one. When I had pets, they swam in an aquarium. I still think they are the best kind.
(And for talking I did have a parakeet for many years. But I won't mention that.)
 
@Xaade the bigger problem is that voting is largely a function of views, which is inherently biased (especially in exceptional circumstances like this)
 
sbi
@JohannesSchaublitb What are you talking about?
 
How can I see the most upvoted answers on SO ever, again?
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Using odata and SQL voodoo?
 
No, there's a link, I'm sure :)
 
6:12 PM
@sbi Lippert's famous answer of the day
 
sbi
@FredOverflow If so, it leads to odata and SQL voodoo, I'm sure.
 
@TomalakGeretkal @sbi thought he was talking about his junk.
 
sbi
Anyway, I'm sure the most upvoted answer of all time must be "the center cannot hold".
 
Russian hackers pwn your web app?
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Now "junk" is a name for that I hadn't heard before...
@FredOverflow Would you mind properly referencing what you're referring to?!
Today would have been Alan Turing's 99th birthday. Sorry you were treated so badly. Thanks for everything you did for us http://t.co/dx2ow6P
 
6:14 PM
I'm pretty sure "junk" means "private parts". Somebody correct me if I'm wrong :)
 
it's a United States thing mostly
 
sbi
@DeadMG Now "thing" is a word that was used in my youth.
 
Als
@FredOverflow: Lol do you mean all of us have junk between our legs!
 
no
it's for males only
 
sbi
6:16 PM
Dear Microsoft. For Windows 8, I'd like to see you nuke EVERY SINGLE GODDAMN MODAL DIALOG! Then I'd like you to do the same for VS2012.
 
of course, that probably doesn't make a squat of difference to the accuracy of your statement
 
@DeadMG not clear.
@DeadMG I think it was originally, but it's sometimes used for either gender now
 
@Tomalak: Those websites are usually years out of date
 
@DeadMG so you're a greater authority
 
Als
who starred this "no" !
 
6:20 PM
well, I don't see how you could make a judgement either way
random internet content on a site, or random internet content in a chatroom
 
sbi
@Als Which one? :)
 
Well, we're supposed to randomly star useless messages, no?
 
Als
@sbi: ;) The one that doesn't exist anymore
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus No.
 
@CatPlusPlus star this message as useful / interesting for the transcript
 
sbi
6:22 PM
I fixed that.
 
Als
@sbi: Probably, title should be where we chat & star everything except c++
 
That's quite a bold statement.
 
Ah, I see.
Removed by moderator
:(
 
sbi
@Xaade ??
 
This user is flagged to be heavily moderated
All messages auto-flagged
 
sbi
6:28 PM
@Xaade ??
 
I'm being moderassed.
 
@sbi: He's dicking around with you
that's a technical description, by the way
oh fuck
2
I forgot to hand in my IP form
 
sbi
@DeadMG No, thank you. I have enough kids as it is.
 
ZOMG Star wars.
Someone just starred everything.
 
sbi
@DeadMG IP? Intelectual Property?
 
6:31 PM
impaired performance
 
He meant ID form
 
my claim for being sick for my exams
 
ID as in alter-EGO.
 
We always star everything with 'fuck' in it.
2
 
@FredOverflow you can always use the data explorer
 
6:32 PM
@CatPlusPlus Destarred
 
and
my fucking blood test results won't be back until after the programme board decides my result
I had one useful fucking thing to do today and I totally didn't do it
 
I'm totally being moderassed.
With impunity.
 
@Xaade We seem to have some kind of star shortage, people keep reusing them.
 
No.... it's being destarred par mod.
I know because I restarred and it told me so.
Someone's watching us....
I see dutiful people....
NO
I WON'T
 
Gosh, the stars are broken again.
2
@Fred Well done. Could you update your answer with the final ugly but somewhat correct-ish code?
 
6:42 PM
@MartinhoFernandes Not until I get exception propagation right ;-)
 
Oh, I thought you had that done already :)
 
It's the last thing on my TODO list :)
 
I've seen an answer on SO that showed how to cheat the checked exception thingies without wrapping in RuntimeExceptions.
I'll see if I can find it.
 
Oh, hadn't thought about checked exceptions...
 
Those will make implementing provideElements a pain.
Because it has no throws clause.
Which is the usual situation where checked exceptions break down: polymorphism.
Hmm, found it.
It uses the deprecated Thread.stop(Throwable), which was deprecated for allowing this exact thing :(
 
6:49 PM
Does anyone think checked exceptions are a good idea?
 
Lots of people seem to.
It's my #1 peeve against Java.
 
My #1 peeve is Generics.
 
It's a good idea, a horrid implementation.
 
There is so many silly special rules.
 
My last message is true of both checked exceptions and generics.
 
6:51 PM
I thought it was specifically about Generics :)
 
I've tried lots of times to think how one could fix checked exceptions, but I repeatedly fail to do so.
Generics are easier to "fix": remove type erasure and they become usable.
 
a) abandon checked exceptions
 
@Martinho: That's easy
 
b) abandon Java
 
you make them opt-in by marking every method as throws (...) by default
 
6:53 PM
@DeadMG Java has throws (...)?
 
That's just making them useless like inline in C++.
It's throws Exception.
 
@FredO: In Java it would be throws Exception
@Martinho: Not true
inline is useful- just for the ODR-violating semantics, not necessarily for actual inlining
and secondly, checked exceptions would still be just as powerful, just optional
for example, if you're getting called back from code which does not support C++ exceptions, then throws() would be very helpful
 
sbi
0
A: Setting up a FAQ for the C++ tag

sixlettervariablesWhy create SO factions? The honest answer is the C++ "community" on SO is not a unique snowflake. The r "community" on SO is similarly territorial about "their" questions I've found. There is already a feature which handles "creating a FAQ" for common questions, Vote to Close as Exact Duplicate ...

 
I don't get it. The whole point of checked exceptions is to force you to handle them.
 
sbi
That should have been done by that @Feed guy, actually.
Where is he when you need him?
 
6:57 PM
Making them optional turns the throws clause into documentation.
 
no, no
using checked exceptions in a specific region of code is optional
but once you decide to use them, then adhering to the spec is not optional
 
@MartinhoFernandes which sucks for all the intervening code from the thrower to the catcher.
 
you could say the exact same thing about const
 
@FredOverflow I know. That's one of things my attempts usually struggle against.
Another is polymorphism.
 
@sbi Is "r" a language?
 
7:00 PM
yes
 
GNU R is a programming language and software environment (also known as GNU S) for statistical computing and graphics. The R language has become a de facto standard among statisticians for developing statistical software, and is widely used for statistical software development and data analysis. R is an implementation of the S programming language combined with lexical scoping semantics inspired by Scheme. S was created by John Chambers while at Bell Labs. R was created by Ross Ihaka and Robert Gentleman at the University of Auckland, New Zealand, and is now developed by the R Developm...
 
awesome animation :)
 
If I write interface Foo { int get(String key); } and then try to implement a method that reads from the filesystem, it's all broken.
Checked exceptions break polymorphism.
I've given up on them because of that.
 
i think it's funny that eric only has 57 downvotes but 1 upvote
 
@sbi SO Factions sounds like a videogame.
 
7:03 PM
now he has 1k upvotes in the C++ tag xD good that getting a gold badge requires having 80 answers too
 
@MartinhoFernandes The R language operates in one of those interpreted environments, like Lisp. Where you can either type commands as you go, or write scripts, or software....
 
@Default: I'll have to channel Humpty Dumpty and explain what "to hate X" means when I utter it: either 1) at this moment in time I'm pissed off by X and I'm venting, I don't necessarily have a strong dislike for X; or 2) I really strongly dislike the thing in a thorough manner, which most of the time means I learned it first, because I don't hate what I don't know: I fear it.
 
sbi
@JohannesSchaublitb LOL. You keep looking jealously at Eric's answer, don't you? Rep-whore!
 
I like things that I don't know, in general
 
sbi
Could you guys give this one the 4 remaining nudges it needs to fall off the cliff?
 
7:17 PM
lolwot
 
strange; thought I'd already commented on that dup suggestion
 
@sbi not at all
I'm not expressing emotions in hidden ways. if I'm jealous, I'm saying it straight
lol. I just found "LITB = Look in the Book"
 
sbi
7:33 PM
"The way I see it, tech companies are way more powerful than music companies at this point." That's one interesting interview. blog.tunecore.com/2011/06/…
 
Als
@TomalakGeretkal: I didn't understand this...
0
Q: std::string.npos validity

Tomalak Geret'kalWas std::string.npos ever valid? (As opposed to the correct std::string::npos.) I am seeing it a lot in an old project I'm working on, and it does not compile with VS2010. Is it something from the pre-standard days?

Did you not already post an answer for it yourself?
Ok..read your comment.
 
Als
good night guys..have a good day
 
7:38 PM
you too
 
Firefox 5.0 released o.O
 
i so need to get a haircut tomorrow
but I first plan to visit a coffeeshop tomorrow
getting a nice espresso. because I plan to buy a good coffee machine. but I first need to test whether it'S worth. i.e whether you get much better taste from a good machine
 
7:43 PM
"Background tabs have setTimeout and setInterval clamped to 1000ms to improve performance" wtf
 
something weird happened yesterday at work: my function sometimes slept 200ms at termination of the program
after some debugging, I noticed that the OpenMP code always slept for 200ms when the request to terminate its monitor thread wasn't immediately satisfied.
 
8:07 PM
What's the easiest way to interface between C++ and C# without COM?
0
Q: Can I export a C++ interface with C-Style methods to a C# dll

XaadeI'm trying to avoid COM. I'm designing a mixture C# and C++ controls on a C++ exe. One method I came up with is PInvoking my C++ exe from C#, and sending windows messages to the C# windows. However the amount of methods I call on the controls base class is too long to justify windows messages. ...

@TomalakGeretkal And broke all my add-ins, and reversed my setting to show new tab (so I couldn't copy, new tab, paste until I changed it back (which I haven't gotten around to doing).
@JohannesSchaublitb @CatPlusPlus @sbi Any ideas?
 
@Xaade just upgraded, no trouble.
 
8:27 PM
@TomalakGeretkal Of course..... I'm crazy... nothing I say is right.
 
nubs
 
nubs: noun, little protuberances, like nipples.
 
@Xaade About?
 
@Xaade No need to get defensive. I just did a successful upgrade to FF5.0 is all.
 
@TomalakGeretkal I'm not defensive. I'm preemptive. :P
 
8:32 PM
like amurrca
 
weirdo.
@Eric_H heh yea
 
ahh, my enemy Qt, we meet again on the field of debugging
2
have at you, etc
 
@Eric_H Please.... don't want to know about your swordplay
 
Xeo
It really seems I need to get friendly with clang and llvm sometime soon:
7
A: Generate calling graph for C++ code

Johannes Schaub - litbstatic void D() { } static void Y() { D(); } static void X() { Y(); } static void C() { D(); X(); } static void B() { C(); } static void S() { D(); } static void P() { S(); } static void O() { P(); } static void N() { O(); } static void M() { N(); } static void G() { M(); } static void A() { B();...

 
8:36 PM
dot generating a graph without completely screwed up layout? MAGIC.
 
shame litb didn't post a version with the unmangled names
that would have been WOAH magic impressive
but by the time I thought about it, I was already bored of the answer :)
er, yes, bbl.
 
@CatPlusPlus neato has worked well in the past for me.
 
5
Q: Calling C# from C++, Reverse P/Invoke, Mixed Mode DLLs and C++/CLI

ng5000As I understand it I can use reverse P/Invoke to call C# from C++. Reverse P/Invoke is simply a case of: Create you managed (c#) class. Create a c++/cli (formerly managed c++) class library project. Use this to call the managed c# class (presumably via a reference). Call the c++/cli code from...

Does this mean I have a file that has CLI and a file that has C# in one project, and call the CLI from a C++ exe?
 
Yep, seems so.
 
How would I go in the reverse..... call the CLI from the C#, then have the CLI call back into the C++?
 
8:40 PM
The C++/CLI code just exposes a C++ interface to the C# class.
 
Or would I PInvoke the C++ from the C#?
 
From C# PInvoke is a simpler solution.
That is, once you get the signatures right.
But if you have control over the C++, you can make that easy.
 
But with PInvoke, I can or can't call methods from a virtual abstract C++ interface?
I have control over everything
nvm
 
@Xaade Well, in that case, just make it work. :P
 
P/Invoke can't do jack with a C++ interface
it needs a C interface
 
8:43 PM
You can expose doStuff(virtualabstractishthingy* self, params...) { self->doStuff(params...); }.
Ugly, I know.
 
sbi
@Xaade Sorry, never did any interop, and still hoping I'll never have to.
 
But C interface means that the methods can't belong to a class????
 
OK
 
Calling C++ code from other languages always had that problem, AFAIK.
 
8:44 PM
Scenario. MFC window base, with C# controls.
Trying hard to avoid COM and it's registry manipulation
Given I have to support Win2000 boxes.
 
You can do COM without the registry.
Not sure if it works on Win2k.
 
Not on Win2k
Hence my problem
If it were just a manifest....
 
My biggest software written with .NET is a crappy C# app that packages crash dump, log and some stuff from WMI. It has a progress bar!
 
But then still, I can't find any ready-bake COM examples out there.... and it's hard to piece together the parts.... specifically "What do I have to do?" and "What code am I supposed to actually write?"
 
Why do you need to support 2000?
 
8:47 PM
Existing clients in businesses that wouldn't upgrade the toilet paper.
 
Fortunately, XP drove 98 out.
Otherwise we'd still be stuck supporting those.
 
We had to pretty much declare we stopped supporting 98
It was as if the earth shook
 
If it didn't, Windows would die.
 
8:49 PM
We still don't use any of the XP only features in Common Controls 6.
No.... we manually paint controls to LOOK LIKE CC6
 
98 didn't stand the test of time at all, and ME was even worse.
 
ME???
 
You don't know ME?
 
9x line was doomed.
 
8:49 PM
Repressed memories
 
Windows Millenium Edition.
 
OH GAH>..... MY EYES
 
@Xaade I understand.
 
Windows Maggots Edition.
 
@Cat There's an infinity of those jokes.
 
8:50 PM
I love how they suddenly made all of the customization of Windows unavailable.... to admins... even
 
Feasting on rotting DOS core with a bunch of shit on top of it.
 
I know.... we'll just add more silver.... ... ... duct tape
 
I never knew what people see in customisation.
 
Duct tape is what allows me to type this right now.
 
@CatPlusPlus I mean.... most of the admin settings were removed or made really obscure.
 
8:52 PM
Got a bunch of it on my laptop.
 
Ooh, shiny windows. Who cares, really.
 
Turning off accessibility features???? NO MORE you can!!!!!!!
@CatPlusPlus You're misinterpreting me.
Oh, you want to edit network settings..... find them if you dare.
 
Seven exclamation marks. That's borderline permanent insanity.
 
Eh? I don't know about Vista but 7 has accessibility settings where you'd expect.
Once you get used to the new Control Panel, at least.
Assuming migration from XP.
 
Or simply set the view to classic.
 
8:54 PM
Vista is about as bad at obscuring options
 
Some names changed, that's all.
 
It becomes easier again in 7
 
That reminds me that I have to get 7 from MSDNAA and upgrade XP on this PC.
So lazy.
 
Yeah, now we support windows 7, and found out all that custom shit we wrote.... doesn't work.
 
I've never used Vista.
 
Xeo
8:55 PM
@Johannes: Get into the chat!
 
Heaven forbid we have people use expected windows reflexes.
 

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