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5:00 PM
@Xaade, thats what was on that paper , all about why VC 6 dident have good intellisense , and why 2008's sucks so bad... ect ect
 
sbi
@Xaade But IS is using a completely different compiler since VC10.
 
@Xeo i use the whole tomato anyways..... dont generially trust vs's intellisense
 
@johnathon So.... dot dot dot.... IS is using a different compiler than VS.... which is what @sbi is saying if I understand the convo.
 
Xeo
@johnathon I have VAX installed too
 
sbi
5:01 PM
@Xeo And now you expect me to type that?
 
@Xeo i am not typing that out :|
 
Xeo
No, but @Martinho was wondering what my code base looked like. :)
And that's it, nothing more
 
It does not help, though. You didn't upload the ghosts.
 
@Xeo try disabeling vax
 
What is VAX/tomato?
 
5:03 PM
@Xeo matter o factly, disable all 3rd party plugins .
 
sbi
@Xaade Something you shouldn't try, because once you tried, you'll have to buy it. Instant addiction.
 
@Xaade a very very nice vs addin :)
 
@johnathon Vaxen were replaced by Alpha. And Alpha by Itanium.
 
Oh that.... can't convince my company to buy. They like IntelliSense stalling whenever the network lags.
 
sbi
5:04 PM
@MartinhoFernandes ?? :)
 
@AProgrammer Either you're old, or you've been reading the Jargon File too much.
Not that I've done that.
 
@martinho i was alla bout i dont know what the fuck he's talking about , hes talking processors and im talking vs addins
 
@MartinhoFernandes I'm 43 and I knew about Vaxen before I knew about the Jargon file. I've also used a PDP-10 :-)
But I don't feel old.
 
@AProgrammer we can talk old machines anyday .. but dont throw left feild at me like that :))
 
Xeo
Btw, copy & pasting the template code from pastebin works, vs doesnt crash. :>
 
5:08 PM
@Xeo i still say it's an Addin giving you greif
@sbi , about vax.. yes.. yes indeed.. i tried it, and bought it the next day
 
Woah... drag and drop!!!
 
@johnathon You have reached the limit of my English skills here. I don't understand.
 
@AProgrammer you're not alone with that.
 
-speechless-
 
I think he means the equivalent of don't throw a curveball.
 
sbi
5:09 PM
@Xaade Indeed. That's something we hadn't found yet!
 
@sbi Are you serious?
What's that demo chat room again... I want to try something?
 
It's room #1.
 
sbi
@johnathon Eight out of ten developers I've seen trying VAX were scratching at their manager's door after two days, begging the company to buy it.
@Xaade At least I hadn't heard about it.
 
So, VAX turns you into a zombie?
 
@sbi im independant, so to speak, and i have to say, it rocks
 
Xeo
5:11 PM
@MartinhoFernandes More into an addict.
 
@martinho no.. not so much... more like an addict
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes Instant addiction.
 
@martinho i turn mine off, and my coding speed dropps dramaticly
 
Ok, I get it, you're all VAX junkies.
 
Xeo
That said, I still turn many features of VAX just off because they annoy me.
 
5:12 PM
@Martinho indeed :D
 
I use R# for C# code and I know how the huge productivity differences feel. I've been using Code::Blocks for C++, so I haven't tried VAX yet.
 
Xeo
E.g.: Auto-correction after paste, auto-correction from . to -> when dealing with pointer, spelling correction
 
awesome
 
@Xaade Did you script that?
 
no
drag and drop
 
5:14 PM
Oh, so that's what you meant by drag and drop earlier!
I thought it was just the coffee talking.
2
 
Yeah, I finally broke the box
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Whom?
 
@sbi epic five finger typo by placing my fingers on the wrong keys
lol
 
Apparently there is no limit
 
sbi
5:17 PM
1 min ago, by Xaade
Yeah, I finally broke the box
 
the limit is infinity, oh no that maths
 
@TonyTheTiger Sshh, that's a sensitive subject.
 
@sbi I meant the border box around your post
 
@MartinhoFernandes how is that sensitive?
 
@TonyTheTiger It leads to heated argument.
 
5:19 PM
@MartinhoFernandes oh we don't want that...
it's hot enough already
 
Ah, the spam limiter is universal. If I'm timed out in one chatroom, I'm timed out in them all.
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger If you don't want heated arguments, why are you here?
 
@sbi Gorrilaz put out a lot of heat.
 
@sbi I was being sarcastic
lol
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger I didn't know that.
 
5:21 PM
@sbi Ahh... droll sarcasm, burning eyes
 
Ok, you guys broke my sarcasm detector. I no longer know who's serious and who isn't.
I'm leaning towards nobody.
 
@sbi lol :P
 
you never know if anything is serious in this place
he had to be indian didn't he, Mr. Nobody
 
@Xaade When I was in the Air Force, they taught this as a basic management skill: solicit opinions, and (especially if you're willing to guide the discussion a bit) you can almost inevitably find bits and pieces of people's opinions to fit together to support what you already planned to do, but you can usually convince them that you're doing your best to give them exactly what they asked for/wanted.
 
5:23 PM
I'd like to meet him, find out if he really is perfect?
 
@MartinhoFernandes Assume everything is sarcastic.... eliminate room topic changes from detection entirely.... then label serious comments as though that reference @sbi and meta, and exclude all sbi's tweet links.
@JerryCoffin Yeah, that's basic Negotiation 101. Make it their idea.
They just convoluted the concept.
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Actually, there's quite a few nobodies at SO. The two who give their location are from India, though. :)
 
@sbi In other news, Nihilism reaches india.
@sbi He does nothing. Nothing can he do.... nobody can do nothing.... there's nothing we can do.
 
@Xaade The US military adding convolution to a simple concept? No, I'm sure that could never happen!
 
@Xaade hahah that cracked me up :)
 
5:26 PM
@JerryCoffin Well, American education system believes that if you convolute a topic enough you can convince someone it's important and therefore find enough public support to teach it to anybody.
I think it purposefully bypasses teaching economics so it can convince everyone that Keynesian policy actually works.
 
Huh is it time to wear my tinfoil hat again?
 
@sbi What I want to know is how you manage to be a member for well over a year, and still have only 58 rep points. I'd have thought even a self-proclaimed "nobody" would end up with more than that, even if only by accident!
 
@JerryCoffin I would have preferred he stay at 1.... for added humour.
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin Ask only one question. Never come back.
 
@sbi I'm sorry, my experience has biased me against taking Indian programmers seriously... I'm working on weeding out that, because I don't like that I feel that way.
 
sbi
5:29 PM
@Xaade Just look at @Prasoon.
 
@sbi Was that just to mock me.... rep 0 on two of them.
I had really bad experiences in my workplace and college.... really bad....
 
sbi
@Xaade Has he gotten himself banned again?
 
@sbi who's got banned?
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Nobody. Oh no! Not even nobody!
 
http://stackoverflow.com/users
search prasoon
Two are 0, prasson saurav is 632
 
sbi
5:34 PM
@Xaade That's hilarious.
 
glitchen
 
Xeo
not full time
mouse-over it
It shows reputation / week
 
sbi
@Xeo Ah.
 
@Xeo Honestly, the inconsistencies on this website are odd.
You see.... everyone misinterprets what I'm saying.
 
sbi
@Xaade Inconsistencies are odd anywhere.
 
5:36 PM
I'm saying I'm logically wrong.... but there's that very strong instinct to associate past experiences with future impressions.
Ignoring that completely for the sake of political correctness is naive.
Always adhering to it, is naive
At the same time, it's statistics.
You know there's a curve involved. Only a small percent of people are actually good at what they do. The overwhelming majority are borderline capable. And the remainder suck.
So when you look at an outside group, you're inevitably going to assume they all are horrible at their jobs.
I just had the misfortune of being placed with that small minority on the wrong end of the curve.
If I were honest with myself, I would note that probably the majority of users on this site including at least half of the regulars here, would rank me as marginally capable.
Yep, killed the fun.... .
 
@sbi I'm not sure even that would work. I've only ever asked two questions, but at least based on the votes those got, I'd say asking even one halfway competent question is likely to net more than 58 rep points.
 
@JerryCoffin I've posted plenty of questions that only got 1 upvote.
 
@Xaade Okay -- maybe my experience is skewed. It's barely possible that 2 questions out of ~1.6 million is too small a sample to get statistically meaningful results... :-)
 
@sbi My name is not too common in India. You won't generally see guys with the name "Prasoon". Try searching "Rahul".
 
9 questions, 3 upvotes.
 
sbi
@PrasoonSaurav Had I implied otherwise?
(And how come you showed up here? Did you get a notification??)
 
25 mins ago, by sbi
@Xaade Just look at @Prasoon.
My provocation.
 
5:56 PM
@sbi Yups.
26 mins ago, by sbi
@Xaade Just look at @Prasoon.
 
@PrasoonSaurav echo.
 
sbi
@Xaade Yeah, but 1) that doesn't work unless the target has been in the chat recently (which might have been), and 2) I had to type that, because the tab didn't help me (which is why I though #1 would apply)
 
@PrasoonSaurav And I apologize if I said anything offensive....
 
sbi
@Xaade With you it's "when", not "if".
 
Well, I disassociate individuals with groups. In my experience a crowd is less intelligent than an individual. see football fans, American southerners, etc...
 
5:58 PM
@sbi Pot, kettle, black. Of course, maybe Xaade is offensive unintentionally, which would be different.
 
@JerryCoffin Definitely unintentional. I have a hard time communicating.
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin I was waiting for someone to poke at me for that. :)
 
My brain is wired very differently.
 
Somebody said the IQ of the crowd is the IQ of the person with lowest IQ in the crowd divided by a number of people.
 
min/count
 
6:00 PM
@sbi I figured it must be my turn to play the straight man for a while.
 
not quite average eh?
 
@Xaade You clearly need to work on that. Sometimes being offensive intentionally is a good thing.
2
 
I think it has less to do with IQ, and more to do with inhibitions. People attribute their actions in a crowd with the crowd and not themselves.
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin Ugh. Do I have to be the gay man now? :{
 
6:02 PM
Can you run that in my case memset is between 1.5 and 8 times faster, it varies very much and I don't know why..
 
@sbi Isn't it obvious.... Otherwise gorillaz would be the dominate species....
 
sbi
@Nils First question: Have you compiled with optimizations enabled?
 
@Nils Synthetic benchmarking is useless.
 
@Xaade You didn't say anything personal so there's no need to apologize. :-)
 
ah well I didn't specify
that's -O3 or something, right?
 
6:03 PM
@PrasoonSaurav Which begs the question.... for balance's sake. Do you see Americans as being generally inept?
 
@sbi Maybe, but if you do, make sure your wife doesn't notice.
 
Raises the question.
Sorry, nitpicking.
 
@CatPlusPlus American English.... begs the question is a figure of speech.
 
@Xaade Regardless of race, I'd say about 90% of programmers are (or at least border on) inept compared to Prasoon.
3
 
@JerryCoffin I don't see it as a racial issue.
 
6:05 PM
Begging the question (or petitio principii, "assuming the initial point") is a type of logical fallacy in which the proposition to be proven is assumed implicitly or explicitly in the premise. The first known definition in the West is by the Greek philosopher Aristotle around 350 BC, in his book Prior Analytics, where he classified it as a material fallacy. Begging the question is related to the circular argument, circulus in probando (Latin, "circle in proving") or circular reasoning, though these are considered absolutely different by Aristotle. History The term was translated into Eng...
 
For example. From personal experience.... second generation immigrants tend to have lower work ethics.
 
@Nils Really, though, why are you timing memset from all the things?
 
And that's not a stab at the second generation as much as it is a praise of the first generation.
 
It's hard to compete with someone willing to live in their place of business.
 
6:07 PM
@sbi ahhh.. still a lot of variation, why? It does not fit into cache.. 10M int are ~10MB
 
@Xaade I respect good programmers. It doesn't matter whether they are from America or India. I respect intelligence. That's it. :)
 
@PrasoonSaurav Good answer.
 
@CatPlusPlus curiosity?
 
@PrasoonSaurav Perhaps I can eventually cleanse my demons.
 
@Nils Optimising should be based on profiling, not arbitrarily timing single library functions.
 
sbi
6:08 PM
@Nils Since that's exactly what killed the cat, @CatPlusPlus can't afford being curious.
 
@sbi He has nine lives.
 
@CatPlusPlus ?
 
sbi
@Xaade I bet he's been curious at least eight times in his life.
 
well I guess I would have to shut down all background processes to get a more or less accurate timing..
 
@Nils I mean benchmarks like that are useless.
 
6:09 PM
This article has been created by one of the best programmers from India, Ajay Somani who used to work for Google and now works for Facebook. More importantly he is a red topcoder.
 
but so far can we conclude that both are about even fast if optimization is enabled?
@CatPlusPlus ????
no they are not
 
Ok, what purpose do they serve, according to you?
 
will in case one would be much slower it would tell me
 
"Oh, I should use memset just in case, because some time ago I saw it being 1% faster than std::fill?"
 
no
1% is probably due to other processes accessing the memory or something
 
6:11 PM
Again, optimising should be based on profiling.
 
profiling also measures time
 
Profiling gives you a bigger picture.
 
Um.... on one machine memset is faster. On another, it's slower.
What do you do?
 
Changing std::fill to unsafe memset is unlikely to fix any real bottlenecks.
 
6:13 PM
@PrasoonSaurav You go AFK?
 
well we saw that both are about equally fast
 
That's not an answer.
 
And it still doesn't matter.
 
@Nils And for some reason it matters?
 
(And memset sucks.)
 
6:14 PM
If both are faster on both machines.... then.... flip a coin.
 
@Xaade yes it does
 
@Nils The sky is a color!
Please explain
 
no it's not
 
@Nils Man of many words.
 
no I'm not
:D
 
6:15 PM
Point being.... please explain why you think it matter which code to use if they are equally fast. At that point, you pick which is the most stable.
 
Well was just curious to see whether memset is really faster..
 
sbi
@Nils Noticeable improvements usually come from algorithmic improvements, not from micro-optimizations on what might be performance-wise irrelevant code.
 
I don't have an actual use case for that
 
@Nils Did it form a hurricane?
 
@sbi yes I know
@Xaade no it didn't
 
6:16 PM
whether != weather
@sbi Because micro-optimizations may not actually be optimizations if you change platforms....
 
sbi
@Xaade Whether weather equals whether is decided by Heather.
 
@sbi Heather failed grammar....
I know.... I was in her class in gradeschool
Ugh.... I only got one star today..... I'm off my talent.
 
sbi
@Nils A noticeable improvement is at least 15-20%, and it's very few programs where you get this by changing code. Usually you get it by eliminating code.
 
@sbi Or eliminating coders.
 
sbi
@Xaade That only helps when 1) they are bad coders and 2) you do this before they start working at the code.
 
6:21 PM
@sbi If you think that's bad.... consider that concept with gradeschool teachers....
 
@sbi If you make your algorithm more cache friendly does that count as an algorithmic improvement?
@sbi One example is disabling array bounds checking in some image processing primitives
 
@Nils Again, now you're talking hardware specifications.... At which point, your optimization may not be an optimization depending on which machine you run on.
 
Disabling bounds checking is eliminating code.
 
sbi
@Nils An algorithmic improvement would be when you change your algorithm to not to need to fill a piece of memory with a certain value. You eliminate that code.
 
O(N) verses O(2^N)
 
6:24 PM
no it isn't
:D
 
I disagree.
It is... and therefore that ain't.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus Yeah, but minor code. An algorithmic improvement would be to have to iterate anymore.
 
...says the guy whining about grammar...
 
@JohnDibling I believe "ain't" is correct grammar.... teachers be damned.
 
sbi
@Xaade Teachers ain't to be damned.
 
6:26 PM
again, says the guy whining about grammar...
 
Why do you want to dam teachers?
 
Ain't = Am not.
 
keep digging
you'll end up in China soon, I think
 
Either way, I was wrong above
It is, and therefore that isn't
.... but ain't is still a word
I'll defend that to my grave.
Mostly because saying I aren't (are not) is ludicrous....
 
bully on ya, then
 
6:29 PM
"I'm not"? :P
 
I am not => I aren't.... how stupid
@CatPlusPlus Of course you could say I'm not.... but you still have aren't
It's more obvious that aren't is possible when you use the phrase, "aren't I".
At which point that's chosen as correct even though it's expanded form isn't correct.
Typical English inconsistency.
Ain't I tries to save the day, but is crushed under the weight of professional grammar educators who insist that a collapse of incorrect grammar is correct.
At this I scoff and say.... teachers be damned.
 
Obviously.
 
Xeo
oh, john!
 
@Xeo: Yes?
 
Xeo
what happened to your answer on the type erasure thing? :) you made me so curious, I want to know!
 
6:43 PM
oh, lol
did i tell you I found a bug in my code?
 
Xeo
Mmm, I think so, yeah?
 
i wanted to fix that before i gave it to you, but i havent had a chance to fix it yet
 
Xeo
bummer. :(
 
tell you what tho, if you give me your email address I'll send you my code
you can take a look at it at your leisure
 
Xeo
that doesn't sound bad
 
6:46 PM
ok, one moment...
 
sbi
@JohnDibling Why don't you post it on SO, so that everybody can look at it?
 
@sbi: It's buggy.
 
sbi
@JohnDibling Post it as such. Maybe someone else than you or @Xeo will fix it.
 
Xeo
@sbi it seems it still has some bugs, but I'm impatiant :)
 
@sbi: Plus its almost 1000 lines of code.
 
sbi
6:51 PM
@Xeo So? Since when do you have to post perfect code on SO?
@JohnDibling Ugh. Well, that is indeed a show stopper for an SO answer.
 
Xeo
@JohnDibling I think I just found some literature for tonight!
@sbi Ideone needs to get around to multiple compilation units. xD
 
@Xeo You know that doesn't protect from any bots, right? :P
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus Oh well, it's my spam mal acc anyways :)
 
sbi
@Xeo You could at least have deleted that message after John (and the rest of the world) has seen it.
 
Xeo
@sbi I think it's a bit stupid that we can't delete chat messages after 5 minutes
 
sbi
7:05 PM
@Xeo Five minutes ought to be enough for anybody.
 
@sbi, depend for what. There are things I want to do for more than five minutes.
 
hello all
 
@Xeo: Just sent you an email
I think what I sent you could be worked in to an answer for your SO post
But there's still the question of this being a thousand lines of code
 
Is that what bots do.... sprawl for text of emails
so if I were to type email@email.com.... now some bot can see that, and will use it?
 
yep and some advertising agency might use it
 
7:20 PM
You might be able to flag it for moderation
 
so best not to publish an email publicy
 
I figured they just broadcasted, or bought the information from your bank
 
@JohnDibling we should flag it
 
No, the best is to have a trained spam filter.
 
Would it be interesting to spam the internet with false emails to keep bots busy wasting time.
 
7:21 PM
I have a public email and I haven't seen a false negative in years.
 
I flagged it. Hopefully a mod will know enough to simply delete the post.
 
@Xaade It's already been done.
 
@Cat does it work?
 
@JohnDibling hope so :)
 
@Xaade I'd think people behind those bots are clever enough to blacklist sites that do this.
 
7:22 PM
the interwebs is no safe place for your email address
that's why I have my
 
@JohnDibling Did you use flag as offensive/spam, or flag for moderator?
 
What if I gave my email publicly.... but required new people to get a verbal code from me before I add them to an include list?
 
sbi
@JohnDibling Needs no mod. It just needs five of us to agree with your flagging.
 
flag for moderator
@sbi I can't see a flag yet :(
 
@Cat: There is no such distinction
 
7:23 PM
@JohnDibling There is. Click on the arrow beside the message.
 
yes there is
 
flag for moderator doesn't show.... flag spam shows
 
The usual flags are just for the 10k users on the chat, they don't flag site mods.
 
Oh, I guess I flagged for spam. Whoops!
 
I flagged for mods
 
7:24 PM
It needs one more usual flag, though.
 
so if I flag for spam, only I see the blue box?
 
@Xaade I don't see it, I think 10k rep users see it
 
k, i flagged for mod
 
All 10k users do.
 
sbi
@Xaade All 10k users online in the chat.
 
7:25 PM
But I flagged spam one time, and I saw a box beside the message
I assumed everyone else in the room could see it, because @sbi commented that he didn't like spam flag wars.
 
You, and 10k users.
 
AH
gotcha
 
Xeo
@JohnDibling Thank you very much! :) I'm gonna take a look at it after I'm through with this movie
 
Le me know if your brain explodes. :)
 
@John Xeo told Jesus to tell me to tell you his brain exploded.
It was somewhat good in that it saved money on the casket, as it could now be that much shorter.
 
7:41 PM
@Xaade that's so evil
 
It's like having your brain smashed with a slice of lemon. Wrapped around a large brick.
 
hahah :P
 
@TonyTheTiger I have a particular dark humor.
 
7:59 PM
1 hour ago, by Jerry Coffin
@Xaade Regardless of race, I'd say about 90% of programmers are (or at least border on) inept compared to Prasoon.
Regardless of race... so, no race condition?
 
hahah :)
 
8:10 PM
@FredOverflow No race condition, correct. Hopefully no deadlocks either...
 
Hopefully no dreadlocks either...*
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin @Prasoon doesn't wear dreadlocks.
@FredOverflow :(
 
That was close :)
 
8:30 PM
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger We hadn't talked about sex here since...uh...last night, when your brought it up? So you had to bring it up, hadn't you? :)
 
@sbi well, what else are we gonna talk about?! :P
not C++ obviously :)
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Let's not talk about sex, let's instead talk about, um, the usage of the word "fuck"!
 
@sbi what fuck is that all about? :)
@sbi oh lol, are you referring to the video I posted earlier? hahah :P
 
sbi
8:40 PM
@TonyTheTiger No.
-1
Q: Why was my comment edited?

sbi Possible Duplicate: Are expletives allowed on SE sites? For four days, my comment here had, after the question mark, something like this: "(To tell him to fuck off might not be appropriate, though.)" Now it's gone. Why did someone edit my comment and remove that?

 
@sbi so did you not see it?
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger See what?
 
@sbi Thank goodness for that!
 
7 hours ago, by Tony The Tiger
I think this applies!!
usage of the word fuck :P
@sbi that's just fail on SO's part
This is mac fail Mac and VLC
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Ah, that I saw. Great video!
 
8:45 PM
@sbi :)
 
sbi
Anyway, gotta go home now, it's late.
My least favorite thing to say at work - "Sorry I'm late guys"
@jjnguy Yeah, and that's especially annoying when it's 10pm and they, while leaving, discover you're still in. (Just happened to me.)
 
@sbi oh damn
 
@sbi damn
 

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