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3:00 PM
Greece is finally working on getting clothes on their statues.
Terrorists get bored and start a jihad against the toothfairy.
And some Palestinian comes by with a crayon and redraws Israels borders.
 
@Xeo What?
Post it! I wanna see how you break IntelliSense. Or something.
 
Xeo
@MartinhoFernandes If I comment it out from the .vcxproj, it loads fine
and I found the culprit lines it seems
everything began when I wrote this meta function:
 
You wanna see how to break IntelliSense????
Write a line of code.
 
Xeo
 template<class T, T X, class Target>
 struct expand_into{
 };
those 3 lines cause the series of crashes
after I put the following partial spec in, it finally killed VS and made it unloadable:
 
We need a pragma statement that causes intellisense to ignore certain code.
 
Xeo
3:03 PM
template<class T, int N, T (&Arr)[N], class Target>
struct expand_into<T (&)[N], Arr, Target>;
commenting them out in a texteditor and reloading the solution everything works fine again
 
WOOT
 
I guess you're screwed then. :( You need to find another way of writing that.
 
Or you could turn IS off.
 
Xeo
Why? Everything works fine now, commented them back in in VS and no crash (yet). xD
 
@Xeo Oh. Then maybe it was a random crash and the IntelliSense DB or cache or whatever got corrupted.
 
3:06 PM
It's obvious that IntelliSense has a random success factor, seeded with the programmer's frustration level.
 
Xeo
@MartinhoFernandes Well, it was those 5 lines, I'm sure.
I'm just not sure how.
 
Or the planets aligned for a couple of minutes.
 
Xeo
Maybe I shouldn't have made that butterfly flap its wings.
4
 
"When your powers combine, they become, Captain F*ckup"
 
Hey! No expletives!
 
3:08 PM
DAMMIT, I LOST MY CAPS LOCK KEY
 
@Xaade And?
 
holding shift forever sucks....
 
bluegrass
quick @martin, type a music genre
 
Xeo
@JohannesSchaublitb alien
 
3:09 PM
really?? never heard of that.... is it close to techno.
 
@Xaade Why would having Caps Lock make that easier?
 
Still waiting for the rest of that @Johannes
 
Is that what Caps Lock is for?
 
Xeo
Martinho, trolling is reserved for @Johannes
 
I thought it was to prevent having a hole in that part of the keyboard.
 
3:11 PM
@MartinhoFernandes A joke @Martin. If you're stuck in caps lock mode, you'd have to hold shift to type little letters.
@MartinhoFernandes No .... that's what the windows key is for.
The caps lock key is used to turn autorun on in MMOs
 
sbi
@Xaade In Windows you can set a preference to let SHIFT undo CAPSLOCK.
 
Or just kill the damn thing.
 
@sbi tapping shift.... or hitting a key with shift pressed?
 
sbi
@Xaade tapping.
 
@MartinhoFernandes Die Die Die Die Die Die
@sbi nice
 
3:15 PM
It's one of the acessibility features. Those annoying things that pop up when you press shift and wait a while thinking.
 
sbi
@Xaade He already said "LOL", "Hmm", and "folks". Except for a prank once in a while, or some twisted code, what more do you expect to come?
 
next will be lulz
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes No, it isn't. It's somewhere in the other control panel settings. I always disabled accessibility immediately after installing XP, and always set this option. (Because it allows you to control the state of CAPSLOCK without having to look at the keyboard.)
 
@sbi Oh, ok. Never seen it. I am usually a bit more drastic and just turn Caps Lock into another Ctrl or Esc.
 
@sbi When you type "folks" by itself. Americans (particularly southerners) anticipate that the speaker finds the current events unnecessary or humorous. Usually the speaker continues to explain what they think about the situation. So just saying "folks" had me hanging.
 
sbi
3:19 PM
Win7/64 has it under Advanced Keyboard settings in the Language/Region settings.
 
If it's not the above reason, "folks" is still an address used to get people's attention.
 
sbi
@Xaade You know, given the confusion and havoc you regularly wreak here, having you hanging is a thought worth considering. :)
 
@sbi But, that's my job.
I was meant to do that... for all of society.... it's a freedom of expression for others to enjoy.
 
sbi
@Xaade "Ich bin der Geist, der stets verneint."
 
3:21 PM
The world would be a colder darker place without me.
 
@Xaade hahah prob would
 
@sbi "I am the Spirit that denies!" - So you intend to rob me from my pleasure.
 
@Xaade If we "take care" of you, will it be enough to avert global warming?
 
@Xaade are you German?
@MartinhoFernandes hahahah
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger google.com/…
@Xaade It was probably translated into "deny" to fit the meter, but I don't think it's a very good translation.
To me, "deny" implies that you prevent someone from getting something (please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not aq native), while "verneinen" means more than that.
 
3:25 PM
@sbi oblivion-verb would be better? like obliviate (but that word doesn't exist)
 
@sbi How would you translate it?
 
well, given the context... I would assume it means, to make nonexistant.
 
@sbi oh ok
 
@TonyTheTiger Google is German... apparently.
3
 
you germans are crazy
 
sbi
3:27 PM
@JohannesSchaublitb Yeah, and you of all people here would know how to tell someone's crazy, right?
 
Especially crazy germans.
 
@Xaade lol
 
im sorry -ENOPARSE
 
@sbi Crazy is normal. If anyone denies their insanity, they are truly insane.
 
3:28 PM
Or rather, the first step to losing sanity, is to ignore that one is by default insane.
 
oh there we go, now the circle of trolling is almost complete
@Xaade so you assume everyone is insane? is that the premise?
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes Well, "verneinen" literally means "to say no". That could be in answer to some request ("deny"), but it could also be in response you being offered something ("do you want a cup of tea?"), or to not to admit what surrounds you ("to not to admit seeing something").
 
who removed the stars from "lulz"?
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Me. :P
 
why?
lulz
 
sbi
3:30 PM
@TonyTheTiger Because I can't stand "lulz" being starred everyday?
2
 
@sbi oh I see... to much trollz for you? lulz
 
sbi
Really, it was funny once, but started to get old the second time. It's not a meme to star this, it's meh.
 
@TonyTheTiger Not really. I assume that everyone is conversant with insanity. In that they deny that fact, is what allows them to live sane. The danger being, that if they deny the darkness when it grows within, they will succumb. A healthy balance of denial and acceptance is required to stay sane.
 
@Xaade oh I see... you're too smart for me I think
 
Yeah, keep convincing yourself of that.
 
3:32 PM
Not smart.... personal experience.
I believe people choose to fall into insanity, whenever insanity is safer than reality.
I skirted that death once before.
 
@Xaade now I can believe that
 
Well, reality is interpreted. So if someone sees something that "doesn't exist", it does actually exist in some form.
 
I can't figure out what the bug is. Help?
Oh nevermind. I figured it out.
 
@MartinhoFernandes It's obvious.... numbers isn't initialized.
 
You can resize down.
@Xaade Nah, that was just a "presentational shortcut"
 
3:37 PM
or resize up
either way you walk out of memory.
you really need to use min(size, newsize)
 
size is the size of the old array. If you resize up, there's no trouble.
 
Ah, I see
You see... there's lots of bugs.... size isn't initialized
 
But the "serious bug" alluded was really the loop up to size and not min(size, newsize). All the rest was just shortcuts, or presented in the rest of the article.
 
@MartinhoFernandes The article is bugged.
I can't see it.
 
3:51 PM
@MartinhoFernandes shouldn't the loop go to size - 1?
 
@TonyTheTiger < size
 
sbi
Uh oh.
How would a C++ book written by an ex Java programmer look like? Read my i'view w a co-author of TYC++ in 24 hours: http://bit.ly/l3JNSr
"Teach yourself C++ in 24hrs". That has to be a joke.
 
@sbi Teach yourself how to type in this code-template that has the main method.... and how to program functionally within the main program. Optional, add functions that main calls. Also includes how to design structures and enums.
Yeah, I had that book as a kid.
It should have been called. C intro in 24 hours.
No ++ to it, unless they added that in.
 
In gdb can I say something like continue ten times?
@sbi the in .. hours/days stuff is generally to ingore, see norvig.com/21-days.html
 
sbi
@Nils Yeah, I have stumbled into that one before.
 
4:00 PM
figure it it out it's called ignore bnum times
 
sbi
Learn how to…
Install and use a C++ compiler for Windows, Mac OS X or Linux
Build object-oriented programs in C++
Master core C++ concepts such as functions, classes, arrays, and pointers
Add rich functionality with linked lists and templates
Debug your programs for flawless code
Learn exception and error-handling techniques
Discover what’s new in C++0x, the next version of C++
 
@Xaade I sure hope it isn't a C intro. With a Java guy as coauthor, I fear more a too high emphasis on OO than learning the C subset of C++.
 
"core C++ concepts such as functions, classes, arrays, and pointers" Arrays and pointers FTW.
How would a C++ book written by an ex Java programmer look like? Like crap.
 
@MartinhoFernandes That is something I'd call offensive. More than the use of "fuck off" in sbi comment. But then the truth may be offensive :-)
 
@sbi "Master" implies 24 hours is a lie.
The book I had was actually usable within 24 hours realistically.... and taught nothing.
 
4:11 PM
@Xaade If is probably "master" which is a lie, not 24 minutes to read from front to back.
 
Teach yourself social engineering in 24 hours. Learn important concepts, like how to ignore the effects of your social program on the economy. How to disrupt small business with overregulating. How to divide the public on non-issues while you secretly incorporate and expanded government. How to take over the private sector and force its jobs into the public sector. How to print money and spend and present it as a solution to a growing deficit.
 
/ignore crappy books
 
@Xaade lmfao
 
@johnathon Hey! No expletives!
 
mm hum.
 
sbi
4:19 PM
How much GNU is there in GNU/Linux? http://bit.ly/jIMJa8 LOC in the components that make up latest Ubuntu release
 
Learn networking strategies, like how to create a private-sectored company, create a congressional oversight committee, and earn campaign money by ignoring potential ethical paradoxes. How to socialize with terrorists, be labeled a messiah, and still not be considered blasphemous. How to organize a financial help organization which expands your voter base by creating false identities for illegal immigrants. How to be born in two countries at once. How to bow to evil dictators.
 
@sbi I like how that link shows how much of a monster gcc is
 
@sbi This linux is fat32, it's so gnu that the gnuboys look like elderberries.
 
> I'm tempted to recommend that people aspiring to learn C++ first delve into Java programming.
 
@Martinho thats obcene. and an expletive
 
4:27 PM
I see the puppy recovery mission was not a success.
 
@Martino not to mention vile
 
@johnathon Those are not my words! It's from one of the authors of that book @sbi mentioned earlier.
 
@CatPlusPlus Lost to the wilderness!!! cries
 
Ooh, we burnin' books today?
 
@DeadMG Wear our ewe!!!!!!!
 
4:28 PM
@Martinho If the author of a book to teach C++ says that... Why would anyone buy their book .. i mean for real.. how stupid can ya be
 
Well, he follows that with:
> But simple arithmetic shows that learning one language is easier than learning two.
Which is somewhat truthful.
 
It was his path of learning. Just like some which learned first C want others to do the same thing.
 
@MartinhoFernandes So that there's one less C++ programmer. Once they see Java after buying my book, they'll never use C++. Then I'll get money for a book, and remove the world of one potentially horrible C++ programmer.
 
@johnathon You obviously haven't seen that one C++ book we found some time ago.
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes I used to teach C++ to students who had a year of Java before that. Since then I'm convinced that first learning a language that dumbs down so much is Not A Good Idea[TM].
 
4:30 PM
@CatPlusPlus You're talking about the one with the non-compiling helloworld on the cover, right?
 
@Martinho @Xaade java is vulgar, and interestingly enough, the owner of sun is on the C++ committee... two members of sun are in fact.
 
@MartinhoFernandes Yeah.
 
The one that shows up in the "Other Things You Might Like" for this 24 hours book.
 
@sbi i tutor a programming student for ITT in chino cali, have for a long time, he's @ the top of his class , but sometimes i wish i wasent in TN so i could slap him up side the head.
 
@johnathon It's a covert operation to deliver in-language support to useless design templates.
 
4:32 PM
@sbi ... he started out with java ....
 
@johnathon What do you mean by "the owner of sun", Oracle?
 
@AProgrameer , the idiot that invented it, made the statement that "c++ is dead" ... what. .. 12 years ago?
 
sbi
@johnathon Actually, I consider Java not vulgar, but as "talkative" as an old woman. So much text for so little information, and most of the actual meaning of things it does are hidden under that.
 
Yeah well.... C++ is just convoluted Assembly.... Assembly FTW!!!!
 
@sbi yea, lets just say im not fond of it. Some say C++ / C is verbose... but i say those that are obtuse shoulden't be making observations they don't have the intellect to back up.
 
4:34 PM
MOV BUS to EAX
 
@Xaade That's C. C++ is convoluted C.
 
@Xaade i know enough assembly to trash my registers :D
 
Assembly is just convoluted machine code.
3
 
@Cat Plus Plus yes... it reminds me of the C128 i had when i was a kid
 
Machine code is law.... law... is 10110101011010111001011011011. What does that mean???? It depends.... on what I want it to mean.... it's all relative to the size of the register whether or not the ...................
 
4:36 PM
what?? the function declaration is like this:

short funtion(void);

and I call it like this function(void);

and it says:

cmds error C2144: syntax error : 'void' should be preceded by ')'
why??
 
All your binary are belong to us..... the internets are melting.
 
@cyberrog if i have to answer that ....
 
@cyberrog (void) in declaration means no arguments.
 
@cyberrog You can't pass void to a function with no parameters.
 
@cyberrog Why are you calling void.....
the void looks back.
 
4:37 PM
And you can't use void as an argument, because void is a type (or lack of it?).
 
ok.
 
@cyberrog try puting a * after the void :-"
 
FWIW You can't pass void to any function at all.
 
@ ALL you can if it's a pointer :-"
 
@johnathon It won't fix anything.
 
4:37 PM
He can pass void.... he just can't explicitly pass it.
 
If he changes the declaration, the callsite will still be wrong.
 
@johnathon should I let it empty??
 
If he changes the callsite, it's still a function with no arguments, and void* is still a type.
 
@Cat Plus Plus true, but the compiler will then point to the decleration :))
 
I let it all over.... emptied it out.... function();
use just function();
 
4:39 PM
TBH, (void) is useless in C++, because () already means no-arg.
Yeah, this sentence is better.
 
well, the question still arises if he was wanting to pass in a pointer to an unnamed argument , as in , if he was trying to start a thread
 
And void* in C++ is just... meh.
 
C is a language.... and C++ is also a language that adds to C. However, if you try to compile C++, it won't actually increment C until after you use it. Which is about right, because from experience, most people who start using C++, don't know what it is until after they reference it.
 
Use Boost.Thread, and you won't have that problem.
 
If only they had named it ++C
 
4:40 PM
@Cat Plus Plus no thanks, i prefer OpenMP ;)
 
@CatPlusPlus Right.... void** is so much better.
 
@Xaade pre incriment versus post .. id say post would be a better expression of it being a superset of C
 
@Xaade No, it's double meh.
 
@CatPlusPlus double meh is better than meh.... it allows meh to be changed to sigh.
Ok.... I need to stick to only two cups of coffee in the morning. After that... I get really weird.
 
And if you ever use void*** then you should be locked away.
;)
 
4:44 PM
lmfao
 
sbi
@Xaade I suppsoe this is a day where you had a dozen?
 
@CatPlusPlus so you can change the pointer to the pointer to value?
 
How many level s of inderection do we need on that :))
 
We need to go deeper.
 
Xeo
Hell yeah, I have sure way to kill my VS2010. :)
 
4:45 PM
@Xeo i use 2010 myself, and , seriously, have 0 problems with it
 
@CatPlusPlus All I saw from those two was ***erection and deeper
 
@Xaade Pointerception.
 
Xeo
@johnathon yeah, me too up until now
I just need to type the following in my main cpp (type, not copy&paste!)
 
sbi
@Xeo You know, the interesting thing about that is that VC10 uses EDG's front end for Intellisense, and I doubt there's a bug in that which makes it crash from the tinsy template you showed us earlier.
 
Xeo
template<class T, T X, class Target>
struct expand_into{};
 
4:46 PM
@CatPlusPlus Adding more stars makes it more provocative.
 
sbi
@Xeo I'll try. I have VC10 installed here.
 
@sbi IntelliSense is stable in VC10???
Is Satan not paying attention.
 
works just fine for me
 
Xeo
@sbi Yeah, intellisense also showed me an error for another template which grazed the corners of templates, but vs itself compiled just fine
@johnathon then try typing (again, no copypasta) directly after
 
@Xeo i did.
 
4:48 PM
but what happens if you try array<array<array<int>>>
 
@Xeo no copy paste at all
 
Xeo
template<class T, int N, T (&Arr)[N], class Target>
struct expand_into<T (&)[N], Arr, Target>{};
@johnathon this thing i posted just now
 
@Xeo Didn't you say it stopped failing?
 
sbi
@Xeo Works fine for me.
 
Xeo
@MartinhoFernandes Yeah, it did, but I wanted to see if I can reproduce it for sure, and I could when retyping it. :)
just commenting it out from a texteditor and loading back into VS was no problem and it worked since
 
4:50 PM
I'm scared of your code base. Something in there is haunted.
 
sbi
@Xeo You mean I need to type that gibberish rather than paste it?? Are you pulling my leg?
 
template<class T, int N, T(&Arr)[N],class Target>
struct expand_into<T (&)[N],Arr,Target>{};
this is some typing;
 
Xeo
@sbi Yeah
 
typed it out.. no problems
 
sbi
@Xeo You're pulling my leg??
 
4:51 PM
room topic changed to: Lounge<C++>: Don't feed the animals
 
Xeo
@sbi Uhm, no, but you need to type that template gibberish. :)
 
sbi
@Xeo I just did.
 
@Xeo as i , again, no problems
 
@Xeo maybe another reason IntelliSense crashed.... IntelliSense BEING IntelliSense.
 
@Xaade lol
 
4:52 PM
Dammit, YouTube, why are you not sending me emails properly.
 
Xeo
@Xaade its not just intellisense, its the whole visual studio
 
@Xeo, honnestly, delete the pcb file , and let it rebuild
 
Xeo
@MartinhoFernandes It is small, the main is only 80 LOC!
@johnathon .sdf in 2010
and i did
 
sbi
@Xeo Works on my machine.
 
Xeo
And there's nothing besides the main!
and with main i mean main.cpp
 
4:53 PM
pdb i ment
and it's in 2010
 
56
Q: Should downvotes on questions be "free"?

Jeff AtwoodAs I'm sure you all know, downvotes "cost" 1 reputation. That is, every time you downvote: -2 to post owner -1 to you This is done to make sure downvotes are cast only when you feel strongly that something is incorrect / wrong / dangerous / of low quality. We've been tweaking a few thing...

Why does he bother asking people for their thoughts
 
Xeo
@johnathon Where? :P
the .sdf and ipch folder are the intellisense DB
 
Xeo in the output folder
 
Implemented, now what do you think about it....
 
Xeo not all of it
 
4:54 PM
@johnathon PDB is debug symbols.
As in, for the debugger.
 
Xeo
agh! pdb is for debugging
 
PDB is debug symbols, I don't think Intellisense uses that.
 
Martino i know, but the intellisense works off the compiler , if you dident know, it's contstnatly feeding the code through teh compiler
@Martinho in it's very own dedicated thread
 
Xeo
@johnathon intellisense doesn't use the visual studio compiler
 
@Xeo in 2010 it does.
 
4:55 PM
@johnathon As long as IntelliSense doesn't link....
 
Xeo
@johnathon it uses the EDG frontend, not CL
 
@johnathon You can't just feed a compiler for that. IntelliSense needs to work on non-compilable code, as in code, I'm still in the middle of writing.
 
linking my production code takes 10 minutes by itself.
 
A C++ compilation is slow as hell, so this would be a deadly approach.
 
@MartinhoFernandes IntelliSense parses C++.... why are you worried about speed.
 
sbi
4:56 PM
10 mins ago, by sbi
@Xeo You know, the interesting thing about that is that VC10 uses EDG's front end for Intellisense, and I doubt there's a bug in that which makes it crash from the tinsy template you showed us earlier.
 
@sbi and what do you think is the backend eh?
 
@johnathon The backend of IntelliSense??? Frontend is ugly enough.
 
sbi
@johnathon Whatever it is, it's not VC's backend, because that generates object files, which IS doesn't.
 
IS generates those other files.
parsing index files.
 
@all just read the documentation on it. all i have to say. i know, because i did.
 
4:59 PM
Would make the compiler complicated if it had to support two filetypes.
 

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