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9:00 PM
@Xeo Go to the bar, ask the bartender to recommend something local. If none exists, try another bar.
 
@Xeo good beer can be hard to find, but it's worth the search
 
sbi
@Xeo I'm sure @Tony would recommend wernesgruener.de. :) At least he said he liked it. (But that would probably be because he was afraid I wouldn't serve him another one if he complained.)
 
Or drink vodka, you'll be too busy choking to contemplate the taste.
 
@sbi Graduated 31 years before me.
 
the popular, big name domestics (here in the US) are okay to get drunk on, but not great, for example
 
sbi
9:02 PM
@FredNurk You know, good beer might be hard to find in Arizona, but @Xeo lives in Berlin.
 
Xeo
Ahaha, I like that new fischermens friend ad
 
@sbi Good beers aren't hard to find in Arizona.
 
@sbi I meant "hard" more as "try various kinds, and not necessarily big names"; echoing Potato's comment about trying something local
 
Xeo
@sbi what would you recommend then?
 
sbi
@Potatoswatter I'm damned if I could find out this from his profile page. (I'm sorry. I'm new to linkedin.)
3 mins ago, by sbi
@Xeo I'm sure @Tony would recommend http://www.wernesgruener.de/. :) At least he said he liked it. (But that would probably be because he was afraid I wouldn't serve him another one if he complained.)
 
9:04 PM
C++ Discussion with Bjarne Stroustrup part1 part2
3
 
Xeo
@sbi aha, I see :P
 
> Bjarne Stroustrup told us that there is a development towards "pointers' values are not memory addresses", i.e. an abstraction in the runtime or the OS, allowing a memory page to be moved if there is a free page between two allocated ones, and thus reducing the fragmentation.
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Why do you keep throwing in technicalies while we try to have a nice, civilized discussion about beer, food, and...Oops! @Tony, you haven't brought up sex yet tonight!
 
"pointers' values are not memory addresses", interesting!
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Is that all you have to say in defense?
 
9:06 PM
One does not simply bring up sex.
 
@FredOverflow that's part of the development (even a push towards by some people) of automatic GC for C++
 
@sbi lol :) I did like it, though I prefer dark beers in general
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus Oh, @Tony does so regularly.
 
Xeo
@Cat well @sbi did
 
@sbi what about sex?
 
sbi
9:07 PM
@TonyTheTiger I was asking you!
 
Is there anything new that hasn't been discussed yet?
 
@CatPlusPlus yes one does, what's a conversation without it? Boooorrrinng :P
@FredOverflow Why this ZeroMemory is needed?
 
sbi
@FredOverflow I have admitted to admiring your sense of humor.
 
    WNDCLASSEX wndclass;
  ZeroMemory(&wndclass, sizeof(wndclass));
 
sbi
Now that turned him speechless.
 
9:09 PM
gorrilas mating :P
 
Xeo
Lol
 
there you go... a new subject, something we haven't ever talked about
 
I believe that goes under Rule 34.
 
@CatPlusPlus being?
 
@TonyTheTiger lol @ hands for feet
 
9:10 PM
If you don't know, you don't want to know.
 
Xeo
You dont know rule 34?
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Ugh, censored gorilla porn. If you want to see ape sex, at at least let's rather go over to the Bonobos, they don't have shame.
 
Xeo
Google tells you everything
 
sbi
@Xeo Is that the one that comes with the catch 22?
 
@TonyTheTiger What does ZeroMemory have to do with sex? Are you regularly trying to erase your memories the next morning? ;)
3
 
sbi
9:12 PM
@TonyTheTiger If it exists, there is porn of it.
 
Xeo
Rule 34: If it exists, there is porn of it. No exception.
 
sbi
@Xeo Bah, you copied that from me! Sissy!
 
@sbi Actually, I was away for a couple of minutes reading the C++ discussion with Bjarne :)
 
Xeo
I typed it!
 
sbi
@FredOverflow You know, I would have claimed exactly the same, were I in your position.
 
9:13 PM
Lol, you guys… and all I can think is how awesome it would be to have feet like this:
 
sbi
@Xeo You might fool the puppies here, but I'm old enough to remember that you can copy stuff by typing it.
 
How did that ever un-evolve?? Shame.
 
Xeo
@Potato yeah, 20 finger typing!
 
sbi
@FredNurk Ha, so that's where that notification came from: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/93088/…
 
9:15 PM
Hm, I'm fast enough with 8 fingers.
Most programming time is spent thinking, not typing, anyway.
 
Most programming time is spent chatting, not coding, anyway.*
5
 
only eight? I use thumbs for space, ctrl, alt, and others often :)
 
Okay, it works better this way.
 
Xeo
Who said all fingers where typing on the same thing?
 
Although monkeys would be better at strong typing, get it?
 
9:16 PM
@FredOverflow Epic :) :)
 
@FredOverflow That's what she said! There, now I've balanced my bawdy ratio.
 
@sbi lol :) I'm laughing so hard, I'm almost crying, those are epic comments
 
@CatPlusPlus What's with the star?
 
Xeo
Also, what about coding and fapping, at the same time?
 
@FredOverflow It's an IM convention for marking message fixing one sent earlier.
 
sbi
9:18 PM
@FredOverflow That's a sublime message to get us to star his posting. Seems like it worked.
 
@sbi LOL
 
I could've gone with Reddit's FTFY, but I think I like the star better. :P
 
By the way: you can't spell "sublime" without "UB"!
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus The SO chat convention is to add a pen to the left of any edited message.
 
"FTFY" is what I immediately saw, anyway :)
 
9:19 PM
@sbi Yeah, but you can't edit other people's messages :(
 
@sbi But I can't edit someone else's message. :P
 
Xeo
Can't spell slaughter without laughter
 
@Xeo fapping?
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus Aren't we talking about you fixing your own message?
 
Xeo
Oh Tony, you're not enough on the interweb!
 
9:20 PM
can't spell "team" with out "me"
 
@sbi Yeah, but in this case I fixed @Fred's message.
 
can't spell without without out
@Xeo I thought I'd seen way too much on the interwebs already :)
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus Oh. I only now got it. Sorry for being so dense. (I can blame the Wernesgrüner, though.)
 
@sbi oh, now you remind me, getting my beer :)
 
Wait, what?
 
Xeo
9:23 PM
@FredO we had the NES you know
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Did I mention I like @CatPlusPlus' sense of humor better than yours?
 
Oh wait, there's an "h" missing. Damn, pun doesn't work :(
 
ok, I have beer, I'm all set :)
 
sbi
@FredOverflow Those Merkins won't even notice...
 
@TonyTheTiger So how are your subsets?
 
Xeo
9:24 PM
@FredO ooohh, I see what you did there :)
 
16 mins ago, by Tony The Tiger
    WNDCLASSEX wndclass;
  ZeroMemory(&wndclass, sizeof(wndclass));
why?
 
Xeo
because
 
Why not.
 
@CatPlusPlus I almost spewed beer all over my screen reading that :)
 
Because WNDCLASSEX does not have a default constructor, I guess?
Being part of a C API, it does not surprise me.
 
9:26 PM
WNDCLASSEX - sex again! See I knew there was a relation :)
 
"Because WNDCLASSEX does not have a non-trivial default constructor" FTFY
 
I prefer COMMONCONTROLSEX.
 
Xeo
How was that about sex-pressions in lisp?
 
WNDCLASSEX wndclass {}; // 0x for the same thing
 
@FredNurk oh cool, so that should work in VS2010?
 
9:27 PM
I have no idea about VS2010
 
@TonyTheTiger VS 2010 does not support uniform initialization.
 
Xeo
What about WNDCLASSEX w = {}; ?
or with {0} ?
 
That should work.
 
@Xeo that should work too, but requires types to be aggregates (which this is, but many may not be)
 
@Xeo that seems to work, I mean the compiler isn't complaining
 
9:28 PM
@FredNurk Aren't all C structs aggregates?
 
what is a "C struct" in c++?
 
A POD.
 
Xeo
No userdefined *tors
 
@FredNurk Sounds like the beginning of a joke :)
 
@CatPlusPlus no
 
9:29 PM
@Xeo There are no *tors in C.
 
@FredNurk No? I thought they were (at least those that don't use VLAs, which is invalid C++).
 
Xeo
We asked about c struct in c++
 
@CatPlusPlus struct A { int n; void f(); }; // A is POD, is it a "C struct"?
 
All C structs in C++ are POD. Not all POD are C structs, for example POD can have member functions.
 
If it does not compile with a C compiler, it certainly is not a C struct.
 
sbi
9:31 PM
@CatPlusPlus Being a C++ programmer by heart, I can relate to being a control freak. But when it comes to sex, you will have to learn to let go.
 
Well, I didn't say all PODs are C structs. :P
I thought the question was about C struct taken from C and put into C++.
 
just don't use "C struct" when you're talking about c++
 
Xeo
Oh well, I'm off again
 
sbi
@FredOverflow struct c_struct { bool b; };
 
Xeo
G'night
 
9:32 PM
@FredNurk We were discussing WNDCLASSEX and ZeroMemory, this is hardly C++.
 
@sbi #include <stdbool.h>
@FredOverflow if you're not talking in the context of C++, why say " C struct"? :)
 
Stop messing with my brains :)
 
And that was the latest episode of The Nitpicker Corner, we'll see you next week!
(I don't think I'd make a career in TV business.)
 
We should totally have our own nightly talkshow!
 
@CatPlusPlus isn't that show always on when programming?
 
sbi
9:35 PM
@FredNurk struct c_struct { char32_t ch32; };
 
A podcast, podcasts are cool now.
All the cool kids are doing podcasts.
 
@sbi this is one of the reasons I called into question the use of "C struct" in the first place :)
a podcast would be cool, but a lot of work
 
Though with my terrible accent, most likely nobody would be able to understand what the hell am I saying. Which might be a good thing.
 
a group blog from regulars in this channel could be fun though
 
@CatPlusPlus Your accent is terrible? I didn't notice.
 
9:37 PM
That assuming I would manage to utter a word. I hate my shyness.
@MartinhoFernandes I'm good at written English (well, I think), but spoken is... ugh. :P
I don't get to speak in English that much. Well, never, actually.
Sorry, I'm rambling about something irrelevant, aren't I.
 
shrug, dunno about that; it's an issue I have no experience with as a native speaker
 
my english ain't too bad (when speaking) I think, as some in this room could attest too
 
thoughts on the committee making the FDIS unavailable publicly?
5
Q: Can i read the C++ 2011 FDIS anywhere?

acidzombie24I probably can't but i really would like to. Can i read the C++ 2011 FDIS anywhere?

 
@FredNurk I got a copy on my hard drive before they took it down, mwaahahahahaha!
 
me too, and I'd be sorely tempted to share it if someone asked
 
sbi
9:53 PM
Stack Overflow is bonkers today. 365 points on a Sunday? It's not like I've been posting all the time or anything. Weird.
I'm sure you all had the same experience today...
 
@sbi he's Jon Skeet, what else does he expect?
 
I've got 35.
Does that count?
 
his mere presence get's him rep
 
I've got 30 :(
And I think it was actually yesterday.
 
I created my first DirectX compatible window, or whatever you wanna call it.
lol
 
sbi
9:54 PM
You should all buy more shoes at ebay!
I get worried when eBay's autogenerated "you may also be interested in..." email consists entirely of LK Bennett shoes.
 
@sbi aren't we're all just like Skeet and have problems with silver badge counts being so wide we can't see the links in the top bar?
 
wooot
lol
 
sbi
@FredNurk Does he have that problem?
 
probably
56 gold, 1115 silver, 2192 bronze badges
 
@sbi oh lulz
@FredNurk soooo crazy
 
sbi
9:59 PM
@TonyTheTiger Yeah, I think @FredN failed to spot that.
 
I've got 2 gold, 14 silver and 36 copper.
 
wow, Mr Puppy didn't respond ever since you removed him as a room owner @sbi
@sbi what beast is that?
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger A sea lion.
 
@TonyTheTiger it is sunday, I hope someone here has a life :P
 
@sbi bloody ugly from that view
 
10:00 PM
I have a life. I just lead it in the Internet.
5
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Yeah, it seems I pissed off the Mischief Puppy™. :)
 
@FredNurk it's just turned Monday here, no we don't have a life obviously, else we wouldn't be here!
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus ROTFL!
 
@CatPlusPlus ROFL LOL :)
@CatPlusPlus where do you come up with these statements? :)
 
LOL = laughing online?
 
10:02 PM
@Potatoswatter yea in this case :P
 
sbi
I like Pratchett's statement that he doesn't want to get a life, because it feels as though he's trying to lead three already. Perfectly fits my life.
 
Lithuania Online.
 
@sbi I only lead one, thank god, behind my computer! Virtually I lead N though :)
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus Oops. Why did I think you were Polish?
 
@sbi Maybe because I am.
:P
 
10:04 PM
so what's Lithuania got to do with it?
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus So what about Lithuania?
 
Want me to explain the joke? OKAY. AOL = America Online. LOL = ?
 
@CatPlusPlus well I got it anyway :vP
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus <slaps_forehead/>
 
It just was the first country with a name beginning with 'L' I could think of. :P
 
sbi
10:05 PM
Didn't I mention your sense of humor is twisted?
 
One of my friends called it 'abstract' once.
 
sbi
Ugh. I'm just reading on the development of that EHEC breakout. Still on the rise. I fed my kids cucumber today.
 
@sbi Always boil your cucumbers thoroughly!
 
sbi
@Potatoswatter "'You laugh', he said, 'you think you're immune.'" (Joni Mitchell)
 
EHEC breakout? Should I be panicking now?
 
10:10 PM
@CatPlusPlus you've abstracted your sense of humour? you really didn't need to take abstractions that far into your life, you know?
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus Unless you're living in northern Germany, you needn't right now.
 
@sbi seems like there's always something they have to use to scare the population with
I wonder, is there C++ porn?
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger I wish it was just scare. Yesterday, they were talking about, I think, 90 hard cases, saying that that's a year's ration. Today it's passed 200, and the EU talks about one the worst outbreak of HUS-inducing EHEC.
@TonyTheTiger I wish you hadn't said that. The ghost, once it left the bottle, can be hard to get back in again.
 
@TonyTheTiger Rule 34.
@TonyTheTiger I'd rather be scared into not eating cucumbers than, well, dead.
 
@CatPlusPlus it was in reference to that rule
 
10:14 PM
@CatPlusPlus That would be FSA porn… and that's no fun cos they're always reproducing.
 
@CatPlusPlus yea I gotcha
@sbi I haven't seen any ghosts?
@sbi that is scary!!! Keep safe is what I'd say.
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Yeah. And 10 death already, with the doctors expecting to "lose" more patients in the next few days.
 
@TonyTheTiger Well, you don't need to wonder, because the answer is always 'yes'.
 
@CatPlusPlus lol
 
10:25 PM
@MartinhoFernandes hahahah
 
> the Rule 34 Squad, monitoring the Internet to determine whether people are engaging in harmless fantasies or illegal activities.
Lol.
Sounds like the Meta Police.
 
Except the Meta Police is real.
2
 
BTW, there's a typo in the topic.
Well, not really BTW, because it's completely unrelated.
 
And having a typo there is a big nuissance.
 
Almosst.
 
10:32 PM
lol
ok, I'm off
 
sbi
I didn't do it!
@CatPlusPlus Dammit.
@MartinhoFernandes Stross' SF is actually pretty good, but I don't like his Fantasy stuff all that much.
 
@sbi You're talking about the Merchant Princes thing?
Or is there something I'm not aware of?
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes There's Singularity Sky. That made me start reading SF again a few years ago.
It had a prequel and a few novels later in the same universe.
 
Singularity Sky is definitely not Fantasy.
(I'm currently reading Iron Sunrise, the sequel)
I was asking what was this "his Fantasy" you mentioned.
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes Ah, you were asking about the fantasy I didn't like? Sorry, I got that wrong.
The Jennifer Morgue I didn't like.
The Fuller Memorandum neither.
(You're making me walking back and forth between the living room table and the shelfs in the hallway.)
 
10:43 PM
The Laundry series? I got quite intrigued a while back (I'm a fan of Lovecraft) and almost bought those, but then I realized my reading list was already too long :)
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes Yeah, the laundry series, They might not be all that bad, and I didn't really hate reading them and I even finished them (I have long since learned to put away books I don't like; I'm too old to waste my time on bad books), but I wouldn't need to read another one. I'm just not very interested in zombies walking the British Isles.
But then I didn't enjoy Halting State and Glasshouse all that much either, so it's not just zombies.
1 hour ago, by Cat Plus Plus
And that was the latest episode of The Nitpicker Corner, we'll see you next week!
@CatPlusPlus Wouldn't that need to be "The Nitpicker's Corner"?
Anyway, got to get up in 5.5hrs. I'll have a round of DM17, and then I'm off to bed.
G'night!
 
@sbi Goodnight.
 
@sbi Maybe. We can discuss it on the next episode. :P
I'm going to magically disappear as well, poof.
 
Hey! Stop remembering the weekend is already over!
Is there a FAQ question on ADL?
9
Q: What are the pitfalls of ADL?

FredOverflowSome time ago I read an article that explained several pitfalls of argument dependent lookup, but I cannot find it anymore. It was about gaining access to things that you should not have access to or something like that. So I thought I'd ask here: what are the pitfalls of ADL?

What about this one?
 
11:07 PM
Grr… now I'm struggling with an anti-pitfall… I thought it was possible to check whether a specialization has been instantiated or not, but now it looks like ADL always instantiates when you try to look.
 
Xeo
@Potatoswatter Of course, to check for an instantiation you need to instantiate ... that's the whole problem xD
It's the same as all those questions wether there's a fast way to know the values of certain characters in a string without looping through the string.
 
@Xeo: well, I had been under the impression that friends were a workaround. Prior to GCC 4.5 that was the case.
I'm sorry for misleading you…
 
Xeo
Well, that's the problem with fully functional languages :) no state
at least no ICE state
 
It's still not a fully functional language… you still can check for the presence of an instantiation.
 
What's ICE state?
 
Xeo
11:11 PM
@Potatoswatter How so? If you check, you have the instantiation
 
Xeo
ICE = integral constant expression
like static const int value = 42;
 
You can check for a function template instantiation by attempting to use it as an overload.
Bah, how was Johannes doing it…
 
Xeo
Uhm?
 
I should just write a demo.
Ah, no, he was just declaring new non-template functions.
Dammit, you can pry my side-effects from my cold, dead hands!
Lol and initially I'd refused to believe TMP had side effects…
 
Xeo
11:21 PM
Heh, TMP not working in your favor? :)
 
If ever there were a fickle friend…
Ah, it might be legal to define an friend function template in class scope?
 
Xeo
@Potatoswatter you can't have template friends, no?
 
@Xeo Sure you can, a template declaration can be a friend declaration.
 
Xeo
Oh, ok, than I mixed that up with something else
 
Indeed, 14.5.3/3: A friend function template may be defined within a class or class template, but a friend class template may not be defined in a class or class template.
I might be back in business…
I believe C++0x eliminated the latter restriction… but I don't want to rely on that.
 
11:37 PM
C++ builds are sloooooooow.
Anyone has a link with strategies to reduce build times?
Or is there no such thing?
 
@MartinhoFernandes you mean, besides not using C++?
 
@FredNurk Yes, besides that. I'm growing rather fond of the language.
Even though I hate a few things.
Like infinite build times.
 
Xeo
11:52 PM
14
Q: What strategies have you used to improve build times on large projects?

rikhI once worked on a C++ project that took about an hour and a half for a full rebuild. Small edit, build, test cycles took about 5 to 10 minutes. It was an unproductive nightmare. What is the worst build times you ever had to handle? What strategies have you used to improve build times on large...

31
Q: What techniques can be used to speed up C++ compilation times?

Scott LanghamWhat techniques can be used to speed up C++ compilation times? This question came up in some comments on this question: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/372862/c-programming-style And I'm interested to hear what ideas there are. I've seen this related question, but that doesn't provide many ...

C++ haz teh answers.
Might also be of interest:
16
Q: How do YOU reduce compile time, and linking time for Visual C++ projects? (native c++)

Brian R. BondyHow do YOU reduce compile time, and linking time for VC++ projects? (native C++) Please specify if each suggestion applies to debug, release, or both.

Nooo, 2 upvotes from 200 away, and reset in 5 min :<
noo, it's only 5 points, not 20
YaY
 

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