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Xeo
12:00 AM
Whoever did, thanks for upvoting this one. I totally forgot to accept my own answer. :)
 
 
2 hours later…
Xeo
1:44 AM
Anyone still online that has the C++98/03 standard papers handy as a pdf?
 
@Xeo I have the C++0x FDIS...
 
Xeo
Yeah, me too, and I found an interesting paragraph, but I want to cross-check if the wording in C++98/03 is the same
 
Xeo
2:13 AM
Lol. I think I just found the C++03 paper online
 
Error 2 error C1075: end of file found before the left brace '{' at 'c:\program files\microsoft visual studio 10.0\my project\objectbounddetect\objectbounddetect\objectbounddetectdlg.cpp(235)' was matched c:\program files\microsoft visual studio 10.0\my project\objectbounddetect\objectbounddetect\objectbounddetectdlg.cpp 271 1 Objec­tBoundDetect
 
Xeo
2:35 AM
0
Q: Why is it undefined behaviour to delete[] an array of base pointers to derived objects?

XeoI found the following snippet in the C++03 Standard under 5.3.5 [expr.delete] p3: In the first alternative (delete object), if the static type of the object to be deleted is different from its dynamic type, the static type shall be a base class of the operand’s dynamic type and the static typ...

 
3:21 AM
@Xeo Did I just write my long-ish answer for nothing then :(
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Yeah, sadly. :(
I'm frantically thinking of how to change the question to make at least some sense, as I'm also receiving upvotes I don't understand, so your answer isn't for naught as it does hold value
 
@luc: can you please tell me about this error meaning..
error:
Error 2 error C1075: end of file found before the left brace '{' at 'c:\program files\microsoft visual studio 10.0\my project\objectbounddetect\objectbounddetect\objectbounddetectdlg.cpp(235)' was matched c:\program files\microsoft visual studio 10.0\my project\objectbounddetect\objectbounddetect\objectbounddetectdlg.cpp 271 1 Objec­tBoundDetect
 
Xeo
@Miss, would you at least try to understand that error message? It's quite clear to me what the compiler wants to tell you
 
@Xeo Well you can change p to B** p = new Base*[n] but it's pretty obvious then that you won't delete from a D*
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Yeah, that's the problem
The whole construct is build on lies my mind told me. :(
 
3:28 AM
well i tried to understand but not sure.
 
Xeo
Maybe I should simply delete that question.
@Miss Okay, let me make that clearer by taking out the long pathnames
Error 2 error C1075: end of file found before the left brace '{' was matched
 
ahh i see .. i guess now i understand it.. i think some function of class are out of from the defination of class ..
 
Xeo
Okay, let me make that even simpler:
{
    {
    }
What is missing there?
 
ofcourse one } is missing
 
Xeo
Aha! And what does that tell you now, in combination with your error message?
 
3:37 AM
yes that mean end of the file found before the left '{' ... ahh yes now its make sence to me ...
@xeo perfect ... i like that ;
 
Xeo
Basically it should tell you something that every sane indenting style should have told you on the first glance
@Luc: Rejoice, the question makes sense again!
Oh well, the net gain of that question: 35 rep and the C++03 ISO standard papers as a pdf for free.
 
4:13 AM
anybosy can help me out with activeX Controls ?
 
Xeo
Erm, nopes. :)
But maybe you can help me, I am back from my trauma with yet another question involving UB!
0
Q: Is it undefined behaviour to delete a null void* pointer?

XeoI know that deleteing a null pointer is a no-op: In either alternative, if the value of the operand of delete is the null pointer the operation has no effect. And also that deleting a void* pointer is undefined behaviour because the destructor can't be called as there are no objects of typ...

 
 
1 hour later…
Xeo
5:21 AM
I just found the link to the currently being developed Boost.TypeErasure library: svn.boost.org/trac/boost/wiki/…
Download it, look through the docs and then tell me: Is that cool or what?
 
I've read some enthusiastic comments about it on the boost.devel list
Haven't taken the time to take a look at it myself
 
Xeo
5:38 AM
Seriously, that Boost.TypeErasure just blow my mind. Too bad it heavily relies on Boost.MPL which I'm totally not familiar with, so I can't lurk through the TypeErasure headers. :(
 
Are you impressed by the features or the implementation?
 
Xeo
Both
I mean
Boost.Any is emulated with line 1 line
And it can be adapted to much much more
That's so friggin cool, I can't stop shivering. If I hade to name my favorite concepts in C++, it would be TMP and type erasure
especially type-safe type-erasure, with intrusive operations, not like Boost.Any
And Boost.TypeErasure has exactly that, it allows me to extend the interface of Boost.Any. :))
Ugh. Now that think makes me want to write a library like that myself. :<
But if I really start that, I won't get to do any other work for the next weeks D:
 
6:05 AM
Error 12 error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _cvcamInit referenced in function "protected: virtual int __thiscall CObjectBoundDetectDlg::OnInitDialog(void)" (?OnInitDialog@CObjectBoundDetectDlg@@MAEHXZ) C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 10.0\my Project\ObjectBoundDetect\ObjectBoundDetect\ObjectBoundDetectDlg.obj ObjectBound­Detect
@xeo: there is a declaration and defination of OnintDialog in class .. but even then it makes a linkers error
 
6:29 AM
@Xeo you don't require sleep?
 
@stackedcrooked: can you tell me on thing please
 
morning :)
 
hi @nils
 
Morning
 
hi
 
6:44 AM
morning
 
Reddit craziness again :) i.imgur.com/DVIRB.png
 
oh damn, those stroustrup links in the sidebar could end up taking way too much of my time
 
Is the 2003 standard free now?
 
more likely someone just uploaded it without permission?
 
Isn't there some craziness about this though, like each national body is free to price the documents the way they want
 
6:51 AM
@jalf Ah, last time I posted a link to such a document I got a 1h ban :D
 
@StackedCrooked heh
well, I don't know if it was suddenly made freely available
but given that quite a lot of such links to illegal copies exist on the 'net, I find it more likely that it's one of those :)
 
Indeed :)
 
@StackedCrooked pretty crazy
 
virtual functions are pretty confusing ..:(
 
I'm not sure this actually is a good idea...
I mean, does it really work is my first question?
 
7:13 AM
@jalf: can you please tell me this linker error meaning:
Error 11 error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _cvcamStart referenced in function "protected: virtual int __thiscall CObjectBoundDetectDlg::OnInitDialog(void)" (?OnInitDialog@CObjectBoundDetectDlg@@MAEHXZ) C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 10.0\my Project\ObjectBoundDetect\ObjectBoundDetect\ObjectBoundDetectDlg.obj ObjectBound­Detect
my function is declared as virtual but tis defined as non-virtual.. is that a reason of linking error .. i guess No ..
@alf if i derive a Class "B" from a base Class "A" that mean class B can acesss all functioon and variables of class A
now but if class B need some functionality .. then that mean all functions from class A must be virtuall .. right ?
 
they only need to be virtual if you want B to be able to change the behavior of the base class
and it's _cvcamStart that the linker can't find. The virtual function just contains a reference to it, so it being virtual doesn't make a difference
what is _cvcamStart?
 
yes its library from open CV
 
what is cvcamStart specifically? A variable, I'm guessing, but with which type, and how is it defined?
 
ah yes it is a function : cvcamStart(); and defined in cvcam.h thats provided by Opev Cv
/* Start the video */
CVCAM_API int cvcamStart(void);
its used fpr starting video
as i think lnker problem is in OnintDialogue()
and on OnintDialogue is declared as protected virtual in class but its defined as non-virtual
is that the reason of error .. i guess no
 
7:33 AM
humm
 
The linker doesn't care about public/protected/private
are you sure you're linking correctly to opencv?
 
yes i am sure
 
well, the linker can't find it
The only relevance of OnInitDialog is that it's the reason why the linker can't find it. But the problem is that the linker can't find it, which sounds to me like the library isn't being linked in correctly
 
i have this code : codepad.org/D1Dh3Sxp
@jalf: hm then let me check the library again
well libraries are linked ok
i checked it
 
how?
oof, that's a scary comment on SO: "if php doesnt meet your need, nothing will"
 
7:44 AM
what
 
8:06 AM
@jalf: i tested those libraries witth a simple console project.. there its working then whats problem wtih my project
 
8:35 AM
@jalf oh oh, worrying
if PHP doesn't meet your need, it's because it sucks :P that's a better way of stating it
3
lol
 
8:49 AM
Good morning everyone.
 
good afternoon to @martinhofernandes
 
morning @MartinhoFernandes
 
9:05 AM
@Xeo Is that pinned C++03 standard PDF like, uh, you know, legal?
 
@MartinhoFernandes dunno, should probably ask @Xeo
but for good measure, I'd better unpin it for now
 
@jalf: i am going to make a silyy question now .., after thinking alot
 
ok?
 
@alf i am getting five different error same like that .. i think i need to study about linkers error
let me take energy ... then do back to work ...
 
sounds to me like the library isn't being linked correctly into this project, even if it linked ok in your test project
 
9:12 AM
hmm yes its linked ok with my test console project
but i am now failed to figure out,, fed up ... :(
but i have to fight ...
 
Drink a cup of tea, procrastinate for few hours, and you'll forget you even had a project.
2
 
sbi
3 hours ago, by Xeo
That's so friggin cool, I can't stop shivering. If I hade to name my favorite concepts in C++, it would be TMP and type erasure
@Xeo See, and just last night @Tony was asking whether there's anything connecting C++ and sex...
 
@sbi lol :P
 
sbi
@jalf Is this the message you were talking about? Because it seems to point to the FDIS, which seems to have been taken offline recently, but now might be back online. I'm confused.
 
@sbi No, it's this one.
 
sbi
9:26 AM
@MartinhoFernandes Thanks. I've flagged it. If those of you with enough rep will flag it, too, it'll be gone from the chat.
 
And the FDIS link requires authentication. I guess this probably means it's very close to what the final standard will look like.
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes Have you seen this one by Howard Hinnant?
3
A: Can i read the C++ 2011 FDIS anywhere?

Howard HinnantCan you download N3291? This will have the same text except that changes from the previous working draft N3242 are highlighted.

 
@sbi flagged it as well
 
@sbi Same thing.
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes Same as what?
@TonyTheTiger Thanks!
 
9:39 AM
@sbi N3291 requires authentication as well. N3242 doesn't, though.
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes Ah, Ok.
 
@Xeo as much as I'd like to make the 03 pdf available to everyone, it's currently considered inappropriate to encourage copyright violation by linking to it
3
 
Jez
Hi everyone
Are there any Europeans in here?
 
From what I gathered, most people in this room is European.
 
several, or so they say :)
 
Jez
9:49 AM
ah ok
 
please take the unsolicited advertisement elsewhere
 
Jez
it's not that unsolicited, really
 
I think you posted that like yesterday or something.
 
Jez
yesterday someone said some belgians here might be interested
 
Also, not all Europeans speak french. I don't. Learned Russian in School. Forgot most of it.
 
9:51 AM
3 messages moved to Sandbox
 
sbi
10:06 AM
@FredNurk How do you do that??
 
"room" dropdown to the right, "message admin"
 
sbi
@FredNurk I see. Thanks. I have only ever played with this to make bookmarks.
 
42 messages moved to Sandbox
reheated coffee :( but it suffices
 
hi all, i have a problem with my forward declarations (simple case: pastie.org/1992407). Compiler returns 'invalid use of incomplete type'. Could someone point me in the right direction?
 
You cannot new A without knowing its size, which you can't know from a forward declaration.
 
10:20 AM
you can't use "new A()" until A is a complete type
 
is there any way to resolve this (apart from defining A at the beginning of the source file)?
 
move the definition of B's ctor
 
but it still must be somewhere where A is defined
 
@Fred "ctor"?
 
so it depends what you mean by 'resolve this', or: what is it you want to achieve?
 
10:23 AM
@Julius ctor = constructor, dtor = destructor; also cctor = copy ctor and mctor = move ctor, but these are less common
 
@FredNurk thanks, got it. Thanks for the code also!
 
sometimes code is the best way to say an idea
 
bit of a hassle with all them definitions but hey, what can you do?
 
nothing – unless you can define A instead of just declare it
don't try to separate things out of headers until you know build times will be a problem
and definitely don't do it just for the sake of doing it – which is the reason a lot of people put method definitions in .cpp files instead of leaving them inside the class definition
 
yeah, i know, premature optimization is the source of all evil :-)
 
10:28 AM
but that quote is often misunderstood
my link above not only says why it's bad, but also how to avoid it
 
First time I've heard of premature optimization as applied to compilation time
 
in the case at hand i guess my laziness is at the root of my problems, it's a small throwaway project for my OS class, and i'm throwing all the classes together in one source file
 
@ajalf i am failed to identify that linker error
 
just define A above B if possible, which it sounds like it is
 
yeah, it wasn't, i needed to declare the constructor separately of the class. Now it works just fine. Thanks again Fred!
 
10:59 AM
Being a good software engineer is 3% talent, 97% not being distracted by the internet.
4
 
I'd google who said that, but I was hoping to get some work done this morning... :)
 
@FredNurk LOL :P
 
sbi
I think Edison said that inventing things is 3% inspiration, and 97% perspiration.
 
I think that's why mailing lists (and previously usenet) work so well for me: clean division into threads, you can respond when you're available rather than only when the discussion starts
 
Can you guys keep silent? I was actually managing to make some noticeable progress today, given this room was rather quiet. ;)
2
 
11:03 AM
@sbi s/tran/per/?
 
sbi
@FredNurk Yep. Sorry. One of those words that translate easily, but are wrong...
 
Oh great, now Visual Studio choked under the weight of 14 megs of XML.
Work is ruined. You can talk now.
 
@FredNurk what does that mean?
@MartinhoFernandes lol :)
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes Thanks, we're so relieved now! Keeping quiet here is bothering us, but what wouldn't we do for your career?
 
@TonyTheTiger "substitute" "match 'tran'" "with 'per'"
 
11:07 AM
It's an ex/sed/vi command.
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes My impression is that VS doesn't need anything to collapse under. It's doing fine with nothing but its own weight.
6
 
@MartinhoFernandes been a long time since I've used any of my *nix boxes... I'm getting rusty :(
I do like how we are so generous with our stars... at least one place where greed hasn't taken over :)
If you want to set off and go develop some grand new thing, you don't need millions of dollars of capitalization. You need enough pizza and Diet Coke to stick in your refrigerator, a cheap PC to work on and the dedication to go through with it.
— John Carmack
see, all about dedication, which is what we are, dedicated to chat in this room and keep social! :)
 
sbi
Oh dear god. Another >30k lines log file to look at. And that day started out so well, with me fixing test errors left and right after just minutes looking at the code.
I hate looking at long log files. I might as well take a lunch break instead...
 
You wanted a banana but what you got was a gorilla holding the banana and the entire jungle.
— Joe Armstrong on object-oriented programming
at least we've got the gorilla already :P
 
@sbi: Couldn't agree more. I spend far too much of my working day in front of logfiles. That's not why I went to university!
I'd rather spend my days in front of log-fires.
 
sbi
11:15 AM
@Johnsyweb Ah, a fellow prisoner chained to a highly parallel, distributed system?!
 
@sbi. Several, in fact!
In parallel.
 
@Johnsyweb so you have multi-parrallelism
wow a new paradigm?!! :P
 
@TonyTheTiger wouldn't it be meta-parallelism?
 
sbi
@Johnsyweb LOL!
@jalf No, since it isn't about parallelism.
I suggest "super-parallelism". :)
 
Parallel-parallelism. To go with my meta-life.
 
11:18 AM
I owe my success to the fact that I never had a clock in my workroom. ­– Thomas Edison
 
@jalf its parrallel parallellism, so it's not meta, and stop reminding us about meta... brings up bad memories :P
 
sbi
@Johnsyweb You are at meta? Get off you foul spirit! :)
 
@sbi: he was a bit more... pessimistic? than 3%:
 
@Johnsyweb do you have a life, describing your life? Wow it's kinda interesting
 
Genius is one percent inspiration, ninety-nine percent perspiration. – Thomas Edison
 
11:19 AM
@Fred: And Edison married to have three children, despite that quotation!
Sorry.
 
@Johnsyweb I don't make the connection
 
"I owe my success to the fact that I never had a clock in my workroom".
How many tims have I called my wife: Oh is that the time? Coming home now!
 
sbi
@FredNurk Well, I read that paraphrased, in German, when I was ~12. That's quite a few decades ago. Considering that, I think I did fine.
 
s/tims/times/
 
@sbi wasn't saying otherwise, but I was reading a bunch of quotes and thought I'd mention it :)
 
11:21 AM
I have never called my wife "Tim".
 
sbi
@Johnsyweb Mine used to call me, because I tended to forget...
@Johnsyweb Read the newbie hints, as linked from the right-hand panel. Among other factoids, they explain that (and how) you can edit messages.
(Off for lunch.)
 
@sbi: Thanks.
 
I'm DONE with today's coding! Time to Amazon, yay!
 
sbi
Finally took the time (out of my lunch break) to post this:
0
Q: C++11 shouldn't be a synonym of C++0x

sbiThere had been several related discussions here around the question whether the c++0x tag should become a synonym of the c++11 tag. The way I interpreted the results (and the discussions of the same topic in the C++ chat room) it was mostly agreed upon to wait until C++11 is official. (I disagree...

 
@Miss: Wow. That's a lot of code. Also, it's in dire need of formatting.
 
@johnsyweb: why did you say wow ?
 
sbi
@Johnsyweb That user has, erm, some history here. Been a member for ages, keeps pestering us with the stranged questions, and still can't even properly format code in a question. You have been warned.
 
12:00 PM
For those of you QT folks, who at some point have worked with wxWidgets (on an app of significant complexity) - how was the experience in terms of productivity improvement (if at all any)? And ease of feature development with what's in the lib? Comprehensive like QT, or not?
 
@Miss: Less is more. If you want people to help you with programming problems, at least take the time to format your code and reduce the code to the bare minimum required to reproduce the problem. Otherwise: TL;DR.
@sbi Upvoted.
 
wxWidgets is meh.
Qt all the way!
 
@CatPlusPlus We have to deal with an existing codebase in wxWidgets, and develop new features for the app. I wonder if porting it to QT would be a good thing to do, since our team is full of QT experts. Of course, that depends on the size and scale of the existing codebase.
Which I'm going to find out tomorrow.
 
I wouldn't rewrite a working app just for the sake of changing frameworks.
2
 
hmm @johnsyweb i see .. ok let me format it
 
12:07 PM
But there are only two people who have vague familiarity with wxWidgets. For us, the learning curve might be more significant than a port.
 
UI concepts are the same, you just need to learn the API.
 
The effort of a port are often vastly underestimated. And in my experience, getting familiar with the existing code is the first step.
 
What about event management? Can we bind things together like in signals and slots?
 
So you'll have to take that learning curve you are trying to avoid.
 
I think you are right. We're often tempted a bit too much to port things to our comfort frameworks.
 
12:09 PM
Rule of thumb: rewrite kills.
Either project or programmers. :P
 
Mostly programmers :P
 
@CatPlusPlus both is often the final result.
 
@Miss Please do. And see if you can reduce it. There is an awful lot of code there.
 
As for events, I think wxWidgets use event maps, but I haven't used it in a while.
 
hmm
@johnsyweb i can't edit now ././.
@johnsyweb i guess i should del that question
 
12:12 PM
@Miss It may be best to start again. Yes. And remember, "Less is more".
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus I would consider an application a failure that tangles UI and business logic so much that a rewrite is necessary just for changing the UI framework.
 
@johnsyweb i posted that whole code becasue i am getting linker error ... my libraries are linked in a good way ,, i tested it
and i am failed to figure out my linker problem
and i am afraid to post a question there
because my questions are pretty silly
i guess i should not post it again ..
@nils are you there?
 
@Miss I wouldn't post it in that same form again, that is for certain. Firstly, remember the format button! But also... remove as much irrelevant code as you possibly can to be able to reproduce the issue.
 
sbi
@AProgrammer Porting to a new platform often is easy once you have an code base ported to half a dozen other platforms. Still, once in a while you're in for a big surprise even though you planned to do "just another port".
 
12:16 PM
@sbi Most apps I've seen are built around the framework and its facilities (that's especially true for Qt, where it provides bit more than just UI toolkit).
 
@sbi: replaced your earlier pin with that message
 
Xeo
On the matter of the C++03 Standard PDF, I found it on googlecode. Try googling for "openassist.google.com", should be 5th link
 
i can discuss my problem individually but not here,, because of my silly question
 
sbi
@Xeo This is long since know. It's still illegal.
 
i do't want to be banned
 
sbi
12:18 PM
@CatPlusPlus Yeah, most I have seen, too. But I've also seen millions of flies eating shit, and still won't do it.
 
@sbi but is it immoral? that's the more important question :)
 
sbi
@FredNurk So I noticed. Did you see that I posted a link to that question earlier?
 
@johnsyweb: already i lost "ask question right" ...
 
yes, but now it's pinned (and doesn't take up as much room ;)
 
@Miss I understand that. If you follow those two tips, and also show that you've take steps to solve the problem yourself, you'll get a much better reception.
 
sbi
12:19 PM
@FredNurk I consider it immoral, others won't. Morality is subjective. Which is why there's laws.
4
 
we're on the internet, whose laws do we use?
 
sbi
@Johnsyweb Wrong tense. Miss would get a better reception, if...
@FredNurk Copyright is international.
 
@sbi if you mean the Berne convention, not every nation has signed it
 
Xeo
@sbi Wrong wording. Miss could get a better reception, if...
 
sbi
@Xeo Yeah, indeed.
 
12:21 PM
it's an interesting debate, imho, but I still discourage links (as I said earlier) directly to the 03 pdf
 
sbi
@FredNurk So?
 
I thought I was a pedant.
 
sbi
@Johnsyweb What do you expect coming to the C++ chat room?
May 12 at 15:24, by sbi
@Raze Yes, but what I was trying to say was that, while most programmers are finicky, C++ programmers are anally so. :)
 
Sign up for our daily nitpicking contest.
 
Xeo
@Johnsyweb We are quoting standards, you know? How much more pedant can it get?
3
 
12:22 PM
@sbi Nothing more, nothing less.
 
@FredNurk the ones that apply to us, I'd say
 
@sbi so to what extent should we force our laws on those that are under no obligation, not even an implied obligation through citizenship, to respect them?
 
@FredNurk you're not forcing your laws on anyone by refraining from violating them yourself
people to whom copyright laws don't apply are perfectly capable of finding their own download links without you violating the copyright law that applies to you as a citizen of your country.
 
hmm @johnsyweb well i can't post question on that website because my question is related to c++ ,,
 
@jalf: the context of that message is removing direct links to the pdf from this chat room (and elsewhere)
@jalf: even when said by other people
 
sbi
12:25 PM
In other news:
Linus Renames 2.6.40 Kernel To Linux 3.0, Announces Release Candidate http://bit.ly/kJeyu7
 
@FredNurk Chat room from a company based where with servers based where?
 
@FredNurk But posted by someone who could get banned for posting it, on a website hosted and developed in a country where copyright law does apply
 
@Miss As per the comments, that belongs to StackOverflow. I thought that is why you were asking about it in the C++ chat room on StackOverflow!
 
I don't care about people seeing the link, but I don't think @Xeo should get a ban for it. So I unstarred and unpinned it.
 
Xeo
Mmm, how does one change the room topic?
 
12:26 PM
is it SO policy to ban for that?
 
Click 'info' under the room topic line
 
room topic changed to: Like this :P
 
there's an 'edit' link on that page
 
Xeo
Ah, thanks.
I was looking for it in the 'room' dropdown menu
 
@johnsyweb right ,..i am stucked due to that problem soo i asked here in c++ chat room
 
sbi
12:27 PM
@FredNurk So @StackedCrooked reported from experience.
 
@FredNurk someone said they'd done the same before, and got a temp-ban for it. So apparently
 
that is extremely disheartening
 
Xeo
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: The Standard Quoting Committee
2
 
@FredNurk many things about the StackExchange empire are.
 
@Miss Right.
 
12:30 PM
but in this particular case, I really don't give a fuck. They own the website, they can censor, edit and post whatever they like. We don't have to like it, but I don't consider that in itself particularly "disheartening"
 
@jalf indeed, makes me want to leave
 
@FredNurk I don't understand why you'd expect otherwise, e.g. considering the chilling effect of the DMCA
 
free speech doesn't apply in a private forum like this. And the flip side of that is that we are free to shout whatever we like elsewhere.
 
@LucDanton the DMCA says nothing about banning users for good-faith posting, and there are provisions for "providers"
 
@FredNurk I see a lot of reasons to leave, and @sbi posted a nice list there as well. But a website based in the US trying to respect the copyright law that applies to it? Really, I thought it was the kind of thing 12-year-olds got upset about
 
12:32 PM
@FredNurk But my example was about the chilling effect, not the DMCA itself
including safe harbor provisions
 
@jalf ad hominem? because I said I found the morality debate interesting? or that I feel disheartened by a particular policy? seriously?
 
Here's a surprise for you. Google filters out piracy-related links too. Blizzard will ban you from the WoW forums if you post links to pirated material. Facebook will close your pages and accounts and groups and whatnot if they do the same.
@FredNurk no, not ad hominem, just stating a fact. 12-year-olds are usually the ones screaming "I HAVE FREE SPEECH! YOU CANT BAN ME FROM YOUR WEBSITE FOR SAYING SOMETHING YOU DISLIKE"
 
Really, flagged?
 
You don't have to like it, but I believed, and still believe, that they are the ones who usually throw a fit over that
The morality debate is interesting. But being disheartened by So acting like every other US-based website?
 
sbi
Oh @FredN, I was just annoyed at the Android room guys and their flagging wars, and here you go and start one, too. That's childish. Yes, @jalf compared you to a 12 year old. So what? Do you really have reason to feel offended?
 
12:35 PM
@jalf "I'm just stating a fact" is the common fallacious refuge by those making ad hominems
 
besides, I know a lot of 12-year-olds who are perfectly nice people. Who said it was a bad thing? ;)
@FredNurk maybe, but that doesn't mean I am committing a fallacy
note what I actually said
 
and how did you jump from "I'm disheartened" to "I'm throwing a fit"?
 
Key phrase is "I thought"
I think I, if anyone, am entitled to state as fact what I think.
 
sbi
@FredNurk He didn't, actually.
 
If I genuinely think that the sky is red and that elephants are dancing around on it, then I can state as a fact that "I think that the sky is red and that elephants are dancing around on it"
 
12:36 PM
@sbi jalf explicitly implied that I'm "throwing a fit"
 
and we can argue about my sanity, certainly. But I would be factually correct in stating that I think the above
 
sbi
@FredNurk I didn't dispute that.
 
@FredNurk I think (like sbi apparently) that you are reading too much into it
 
@FredNurk I didn't realize that implying that someone is throwing a fit is the same thing as an ad hominem.
 
Xeo
 
12:38 PM
@jalf so now you'll bring in a strawman?
 
@FredNurk will I? which one?
 
sbi
@jalf, @FredN, please stop this. You're annoying everyone, and you won't agree nevertheless.
 
@FredNurk I did. Not based on your "disheartening" comment specifically, but on how you reacted to the realization that SO may censor what you post here. If you disagree with calling it "throwing a fit", fine, but that doesn't turn anything I said into an ad hominem or a strawman
now can we get on with our lives?
and grow up, preferably
 
lol
 
12:47 PM
Fred Nurk has removed Fred Nurk from the list of this room's owners.
 
Chats are bad conduit for emotions.
 
sbi
@Feeds We're deeply impressed.
 
goodbye, Lounge.
 
Xeo
* facepalm *
 
Jez
So.... anyone here interested in French? :-)
 
cpx
12:49 PM
Hmm, about 3 owners gone.
 
sbi
@Jez You do that again, we'll flag you again.
 
@sbi yeah seriously. I had french in high school, been trying to forget it ever since!
 
Xeo
@jalf Same!
 
sbi
@jalf No, the problem is that he'd been spamming us with an Area51 proposal before.
 
@sbi I don't see how those two problems are mutually exclusive
 
Xeo
12:52 PM
Hm, no more MultiFredding it seems.
 
sbi
@Xeo Yep. And the Mischief Puppy™ seems to be gone, too, since I strafed him yesterday. :(
 
They'll be back.
 
sbi
Could somebody please chase me away, so I can get more work done?
5
 
@sbi: Shoo shoo!
 
Your skin is too thick for that.
 
Xeo
12:59 PM
Omg a balpha
 
sbi
@wilx Did you ever try to do that to a gorilla that's not behind bars??
 

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