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10:01 PM
I ain't afraid of no synonyms.
 
(btw, that synonym only needs one more downvote -- if you ain't afraid)
 
sbi
@FredNurk While this needs two.
 
It's gone already.
 
@sbi I'm much less worried about that one
if we get 0x published this year, [c++11] will come to be very popular, so I think it'd be disastrous to have it synonymed to 0x
 
I'm still calling it 0x.
 
10:03 PM
I am too, for now
 
It's too catchy to give up.
 
oh, you mean after publication? :(
 
sbi
@FredNurk Oh yeah! I saw it the other way around, but you're right.
 
it's more of a c++ 0xdebac1e than anything
3
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus I stopped doing that in 2010.
 
10:05 PM
@sbi I like it. :(
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus I like the pronounciation: "cee plus plus oh ex!" the "ex" makes it sound cool.
 
Yeah, and it's only one letter away from sex.
2
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus You did have to bring that up, huh?
 
@Xeo Sorry, setup was too good.
 
C++ oh exTREME
 
10:07 PM
evening all
 
Xeo
@FredNurk I'm currently thinking of a way to make that a real 32bit hex number...
@CatPlusPlus @Tony starred that one, for sure!
 
I wonder how that end of the world thing is supposed to work. Has Australia ended already?
2
 
@Xeo it's not now?
 
@Xeo no I haven't
I'm willing to prove that I haven't with a screenshot
 
Xeo
@FredNurk isn't it missing one hex digit?
 
10:09 PM
hides Tony's eraser tool
@Xeo 0x1 is a 32-bit number
 
Xeo
@FredNurk I meant like 0xDEADBEEF, which utilizes all 8 hex digits. :P
 
0xDEADC0DE is my favourite.
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus I'm thinking of making a question out of that: Favourite magic hex numbers
 
sbi
@Xeo We hadn't talked about sex for a while now.
 
@Xeo It's probably already been done, and if not, it'll be closevoted to oblivion. :P
 
10:12 PM
@Xeo "not a real question"
 
Xeo
Who said on SO proper? :)
 
@Xeo you could probably put it on convore.com/cxx
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus 0xBADC0DE
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger We're not going to look at it. You photoshopped that anyway.
 
Xeo
10:13 PM
@TonyTheTiger paint, black color, filling can
 
@sbi don't know how to use Photoshop, and no it's the original
 
Xeo
That's what they all say
 
@Xeo lulz
 
@TonyTheTiger photoshopped. I can tell by the pixels! ;)
 
but yea, so what about sex?
@jalf :P lol
 
10:14 PM
@TonyTheTiger I'm in favor of it
 
Why Photoshop when there's Paint.NET?
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger It's usually discussed in the C++ room. What else?
 
Mad skillz, I tell you.
 
@TonyTheTiger the ★2 is too low from where you moved it
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus The pain of .NET?
 
10:15 PM
@sbi we are in the C++ room, so while(here) talk_sex();
@CatPlusPlus what ?
 
s/here/true/
 
Xeo
Well, whatever, I'm off for now, have fun at the meetup tomorrow @whoever goes. :(
 
actually, while (here = true)
 
sbi
@Xeo Sissy!
 
10:16 PM
@Xeo ok that says all too much about what we suspect
why don't you come?
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger She's baby-sitting. :)
 
Xeo
@sbi Funfact for Vista and Win7 users: Hit the Windows Logo Key, type "pain" (without quotes) and hit enter
@sbi Tomorrow is the birthday of my mothers friend, and yes, I gotta do the baby-sitting. >_>
 
@sbi oh right, so am I, taking my baby (beer) with me though, ha!
@Xeo oh golly
 
there are black and white checkers regular/king symbols in unicode... ⛀⛁⛂⛃
 
@Xeo It doesn't work too well if you have something that matches it better. :P
 
Xeo
10:18 PM
@CatPlusPlus I seriously hope you have no program named "pain".
 
sbi
@Xeo What of it? The "p" brings up the screen duplication menu overlay, the "ain" was typed into that edit pane here.
 
Xeo
@sbi Meh, you got the wrong startmenu!
 
@sbi for me it opens paint
so what?
sex != pain
 
Xeo
Or rather, @sbi, "hit" means "hitting", not "holding"!
 
@FredNurk There's a bloody ox symbol in Unicode, you can find just about anything there.
 
10:19 PM
so why are we talking about pain anyways?
 
sbi
@Xeo Ah, so I need to release the Windows key? You didn't say that!
 
it's weekend, they're supposed to be happy times :)
 
@Xeo Naw, some PDF describing Pain Engine, whatever that would be.
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Because you started with sex, and pain comes always right with it. :)
 
Xeo
49 secs ago, by Xeo
Or rather, @sbi, "hit" means "hitting", not "holding"!
 
10:20 PM
@sbi hahah :)
 
Xeo
@sbi I'd hit it - with a crowbar!
 
sbi
@Xeo Yeah, but you said that too late!
 
better watch what I say tonight, else I might get a rant IRL, tomorrow
 
@CatPlusPlus I often tally my oxen in a spreadsheet, I need that!
 
sbi
@Xeo You'd hit waht with a crowbar?? Violent femme!
 
10:21 PM
@Xeo Gordon, is that you?
 
Xeo
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger What did you say that could possibly get you into trouble?
 
@sbi nothing yet, but I'm saying I better just watch my mouth :)
 
@TonyTheTiger publically available logging is … something … with this type of informal discussion...
 
sbi
@Xeo See, I could imagine that quite well. But even with the picture I don't know what you'd hit.
 
10:22 PM
Zombles.
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger You have a mirror atop your monitor?
 
@FredNurk I fail to understand that?
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus "ZombLes" ?
 
@sbi yea I do... lol
called a webcam :)
 
@Xeo Yes.
 
Xeo
10:23 PM
@TonyTheTiger I just wanted to say that
 
@Xeo say what?
 
@Xeo Imagine it being pronounced with a British accent.
 
Xeo
Anyways, OFF! You're keeping me rooted here
 
@TonyTheTiger "better watch what I say tonight, else I might get a rant IRL, tomorrow" made me remember all this chat is being readily served up to google
 
It's so much better than regular zombies.
 
10:24 PM
@Xeo we haven't got root on you yet...
 
@TonyTheTiger: even though it wasn't clear someone you know IRL was reading these logs
 
Or I just watched too much Yogscast recently.
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger And you're watching your face while you're chatting with us? talk about vanity...
 
@FredNurk thank fuck I'm pretty anon on here... lol
 
sbi
@Xeo Sissy!
 
10:24 PM
@FredNurk even if they were... I don't care
@sbi :P need to do something with my life.. hahah
 
sbi
@FredNurk I do. He'll be with us tomorrow night.
 
@TonyTheTiger it is depressing that we have to resort to anonymity to "chat" freely though :(
 
sbi
And as you all know, I can be a real nuisance if I want to.
 
@sbi ah, now his comment makes sense! :)
 
@FredNurk that is pretty depressing, I agree
@sbi oh can you? hadn't noticed :)
 
sbi
10:26 PM
@FredNurk I freely chat with my RL friends non-anonymously.
 
@sbi but you don't have (potentially) the whole world watching, including posterity (logs)
 
I wonder what laws actually give them the right to even retain this information?
I mean maybe in the US, but what about Europe?
 
Terms of service? :P
 
@TonyTheTiger you mean you didn't read the TOS when you signed up?! </sarcasm>
 
You agreed to publish everything on Creative Commons.
 
sbi
10:28 PM
@FredNurk Well, with the anti-terror legislature all over the western world, you (potentially) have something much more nasty than the whole watching you.
 
@CatPlusPlus does anyone ever read these things?
@FredNurk do you?
 
@TonyTheTiger It doesn't really matter, though. It's binding.
 
@CatPlusPlus how binding is binding?
 
@TonyTheTiger remember we use SGML's optional start and end tags here
 
@TonyTheTiger IANAL. :P
 
sbi
10:29 PM
@CatPlusPlus YOU ANAL?
 
@CatPlusPlus I put much less faith in TOS and EULA being binding than I used to
 
@CatPlusPlus until someone takes it to court someday for something or other...
 
sbi
@FredNurk I didn't understand this the other day. What am I missing?
 
more like "binding until I have the money and desire to hire a lawyer"
 
@sbi I don't understand his SGML talk either
@FredNurk exactly my point
 
10:30 PM
@sbi SGML allows for optional start tags and optional end tags, HTML's <li> or <p> were commonly used this way pre-HTML4
 
@FredNurk And have time and strength to go through the legal system. Which is enough to deter most people, I'd think. It certainly is enough for me.
> You agree that all Subscriber Content that You contribute to the Network will be licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike license. You grant Stack Exchange the right and license to use, copy, cache, publish, display, distribute, modify, create derivative works and store such Subscriber Content and to allow others to do so (“Content License”) in order to provide the Services.
Anyway.
 
@CatPlusPlus well, if you really feel offended or feel you've been treated unjustly by their TOS, what would you do? You can either ignore it, or do something... (legal system, unfortunatley)
 
that is, <li> was commonly used as start-tag only (the next <li> running right up against the end of the last) and the starting <p> inside <body> was assumed, to the point people thought <p> meant paragraph break
 
@CatPlusPlus point taken
IANAL = I am not a lawyer
 
@TonyTheTiger I'd probably just ignore it. I don't care much for the copyright crap, they can take my content and do whatever they want. And other than that, I don't invest any money in this site, why would I want to go through the hoops?
 
10:33 PM
for whomever on here didn't know
 
I think <tbody> was even defined with both optional start and end (rather than having differing <table> content models), maybe other table related tags, but I can't think of any others that had both optional
 
@CatPlusPlus true, but in some other cases, you might want to
 
And there's that "we're based half a world away" factor. I wouldn't even know where to begin.
They really would have to steal my money for me to care enough. :P
(And I don't even care for money that much.)
God, I'm a hippie cat, aren't I.
 
<rant> one thing worries me though, about the internet and it's supposed freedoms, that people take that as an "opportunity" to say whatever they want and post whatever they wish about whomever they wish, even if it's plain bullocks or lies, or even offensive. And the person in question (victim) is left with not much he can really do as most of the time the content isn't even on his home countries soil... </rant> that scares me, I don't think that abuse of freedom is right....
that concludes my rant... haha
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Yeah, like them teenies posting movies online, leaving the movie industry with nothing to do against...
 
10:38 PM
@sbi Them downloadin' cars, leaving artists starving.
 
@sbi kinda like that yea, though the industry you talk about has power and money, a single individual might not have that
 
The very idea of "we're losing money because you make digital copies" is ridiculous to me.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus disney.go.com/cars ?
 
@CatPlusPlus I think it's more like they put their effort into it and want to get something in return for it, if you make a copy without paying, they get nothing in return...
 
Anyway, easiest way to not get offended on the Internet is to not give a damn.
 
sbi
10:40 PM
@CatPlusPlus Now that I have a teenage child at home, and get to sniff into today's teenagers' lifes, it's not ridiculous to me anymore.
 
@TonyTheTiger It's an imaginary profit, and an imaginary loss.
Purely speculative.
 
@CatPlusPlus not an imaginary profit if you look at the numbers....
if ten people buy a song on Itunes or ten people illegally download one
 
Assumptions like "one copy = one sale" are just that, assumptions. And greatly exaggerated to make numbers big.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus And because you don't give a damn, you have just changed your rel name into an anonymous nick, right?
 
and that's the only copies of that song distributed, then this profit/loss becomes very real
 
10:42 PM
@sbi I never used my real name. :P Well, first name, but that's still on the profile and not everyone catches it.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus Of course. But so are the opposite assumptions.
 
@sbi Sure, the truth is somewhere in the middle. But the 'losses' aren't as great as they make them to be.
 
@CatPlusPlus look at it this way, if you work for 8 hours and get no money for it, would you still do the work?
 
There are people who can pay, but download anyway because fuck them.
There are people who wouldn't pay even if they couldn't download.
There are people who download and then pay.
 
@CatPlusPlus perhaps they do exaggerate somewhat, but it still doesn't justify downloading the amount some people do... I mean, c'mon
 
sbi
10:45 PM
@CatPlusPlus I did use my real name all over Usenet for more than a decade. If you know my real name, you can find what I think about raising children, programming C++, which books I read, which music I hear, and how I participated in flamewars. Only it's what I used to think/read/hear. But it's all still out there, and every time I apply for a job and those guys enter my name into google, they'll find it.
 
There's also friendliness factor, with all the DRM crap that's happening, that can rob you of something even after you paid for it.
The industry have to adjust their business model, not cry 'oh god they be downloading'. Make your offer as attractive.
Look at Netflix.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus Since DRM is laborious, copying was there before DRM.
 
@sbi Yeah, and the industry still stands and makes tons of profit.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus I think we all agree that the music and film industries have mainly been busy with digging their graves during the last decade. That was stupid. But that doesn't change the fact that their opinions, as exaggerated as they might be, have some truth in them
 
There's also all that "you're in the wrong country, so you won't get any content".
It's nonsense, we're in the bloody Internet.
 
sbi
10:48 PM
Belittling what they say won't make that piece of truth go away.
 
@CatPlusPlus that's the attitude, I think, that begets these kind of 'oh doesn't matter what you say about anyone or anything, what you do, it's the internet anyways'. I think that's the wrong attitude
 
I don't like the idea of copyright. I don't like the idea of borders.
Hell, I don't even like the idea of money.
 
@CatPlusPlus I don't like the idea of being stolen from, so do many others
@CatPlusPlus money is just a way of doing give/take, but yes, it's being abused an misused all over, I give you that, which is a good reason to dislike it, nevertheless...
 
@CatPlusPlus Out of curiosity what happens to the software you write?
Slap a permissive license on everything?
 
@LucDanton My own? Public domain or anything as close to it as possible.
It's usually Unlicense, WTFPL or a combo of those two for pedants.
 
10:53 PM
@CatPlusPlus but how do you expect to live, if you give all away... you contribute to something and you want nothing in return from the ones that use it?
 
@TonyTheTiger There is the attitude that it is the developer that is valuable, not the software source
2
 
@TonyTheTiger Well, I want feedback, to make it even better.
But money? If I could have a housing and food for free, I wouldn't need money.
The world is running on wrong priorities and values, if you ask me.
2
 
@CatPlusPlus that's not reality though
 
I see that big economic machine and can't help but think "who the fuck thought this was a good idea".
 
@CatPlusPlus giving you money is a way of giving you housing and food, without a ton of inconvenience for either you or the giver
 
10:56 PM
Well, I just don't get any of that. Maybe my brain is broken. :P
 
@CatPlusPlus I'm not saying that it's right, I'm saying that this is how it works and that not because you dislike it, is a reason to then take from others what you should really pay for, ie the music we mentioned earlier
 
@CatPlusPlus I'd say when copies were expensive and international law was budding, this was a good time to legislate all that
 
We got a bit offtopic.
 
all my ranting again
ugh
 
You compared the copying a made product to the work day, but that's not really accurate.
People who actually made it have already been paid, and now the most money goes to the distributors.
 
10:57 PM
@CatPlusPlus the 'made product' had to be made before you could copy it, no?
yes, and how do you think they get paid?
ugh
 
And when you account for those people who wouldn't pay even if they couldn't use the product, there's much less 'loss'.
 
@CatPlusPlus not as much as you'd think: the current music industry is still stuck in the past
 
Music I don't really care about, but I'd like to have access to something like Netflix.
But I can't, because I'm not in the US, and blah blah.
I want to pay, but can't.
 
@CatPlusPlus that's just the laws and of those there is some real silly ones that don't actually apply anymore
 
It's nonsense, and contributing factor to free P2P.
 
11:00 PM
@CatPlusPlus now that's a different situation than most people that don't
 
@CatPlusPlus Have you tried the Ubuntu Music Store (requires Ubuntu I'm afraid)?
 
@CatPlusPlus surely does contribute to P2P
 
Again, I don't really care for music, I listen to radio. :P
 
Nevermind I misread you
 
also, kickstarter.com is a really interesting way to pay for music and things that have the same issues -- the artists set a price up front and release the result as some sort of CC
 
11:01 PM
ok I gotta go nap, travelling tomorrow
 
@FredNurk Similarly I've been paying attention to flattr
 
I like Steam, for instance, even with DRM and crappy exchange rates.
 
@LucDanton yeah, I was watching that until newer shiny things distracted me
 
It's just easy to use and doesn't try to make your life as hard as possible, even though you want to pay.
 
I've been locked out of too many games I bought because of crappy drm
I won't buy any game with drm ever again
 
11:04 PM
But can I get a TV show? Nooo.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus As a consumer, I don't like the idea of copyright either. As a programmer, feeding my kids relies on the software I'm writing not easily being copyable.
 
Yeah, DRM is crap. Steam is the least evil, I think.
 
@CatPlusPlus I even lost access to all Steam stuff when I'm on linux, even if the games would otherwise run under wine, but that wasn't the crappy drm I mentioned above
 
@sbi I don't like copyright either way. I have that feeling there's a better way to run things, but can't really formulate it.
 
speaking of which: spacechemthegame.com: great game, multi-platform, buy it after you love the trial :)
(and don't tell anyone, but it's not about chemistry at all, more about visual concurrent programming)
 
11:08 PM
If you buy it on Steam apparently you can email them to get the Linux version (I haven't done it myself though)
 
@FredNurk The domain appears to be parked.
 
@CatPlusPlus oops, edited
 
Anyway, I've bought Space Pirates and Zombies and Terraria recently, enough for now. :P
 
@LucDanton lots of things run under wine using the windows code, things that don't otherwise have a linux version or where it's done poorly (because the devs don't know linux, etc.)
 
@FredNurk Why, let my try right now
 
11:10 PM
I think I've reached 100 games on Steam, and don't really have time to play.
Or more. 155 supposedly.
As for the non-DRMed games, gog.com is a good source.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus And while you struggle to formulate, the company I work for will rely on copyright to allow me to feed my kids.
 
@FredNurk Can't get it to start
 
Yeah, I won't change the world, I'm aware of that. Can rant a bit, though. :P
 
sbi
Anyway, I'd better go to bed now, I don't want to fall asleep after the first beer tomorrow night.
See you!
 
11:41 PM
@LucDanton what's "it"?
 
SpaceChem
 
does it give an error message?
 
Silently fails
I didn't run it in a console though
 
try that
 
tbh I haven't be able to launch much
 
11:44 PM
you replied to my remark about wine, but you aren't trying the windows version on linux, right?
err, I guess that remark was just my last given, so SO chat highlights it...
 
Well what would I use wine for then?
 
plenty of things work well under wine but not natively, but not all of them :)
spacechem's linux version works well
 
Which is not available to steam users
I've sent a mail so I'll see how it goes
 
steam isn't available on linux in the first place
collinarnold.net/zachtronics/SpaceChemDemo-1007.tar.gz -- iirc, this unzips into a .deb package (which is always a good sign compared to half-assed "linux versions" in .zip files ;)
 
Given that the full game is 200mb though I'd rather wait for an answer
 

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