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6:00 PM
It's like watching two guys take a chainsaw and hack each other up, then shake hands afterwards...
@Tony I'm far too competitive... unfortunately this hinders my learning process.
Typically, I offer advice better than I follow it.
 
sbi
@Xaade I have learned, over the years, that it's usually better to not to take critique personally, top not to get worked up about it. Sometimes I succeed in acting so, and sometimes I don't. I think there's only two people here who got me close to fuming, but now I usually just duck out with a few snide remarks when they do that.
@jalf I rarely ever do.
 
@sbi like me?
 
@sbi oh, that was intended at @Xaade, not you :)
 
sbi
@Xaade No, not you.
 
I suspect that if you get @sbi fuming, you'll know it ;)
 
sbi
6:10 PM
@jalf Actually, I doubt these two know. And my usual modus operandi is grumpiness anyway. :)
Ok, I'm now down to two browser windows. And I like it. Hopefully, those tab groups will survive FF restarting. Otherwise I'm pretty fucked up.
 
hehe
 
sbi
@jalf Thanks for bringing this up!
 
they do, at least if you've set it to restore session on restart
 
sbi
Anyway, time to get back to hacking...
 
and np
 
6:17 PM
@jalf I got him mad one time....
 
@Xaade Do remember in the Apocalypse there is mention of the "old dragon"? That's @sbi.
 
the one that the woman and child run from.....
 
@Xaade Yeah I guess, don't remember that part :)
 
From what I understand they thought the dragon was bloodthirsty.... but in fact it was just angry that it was woken..... Apparently the Japanese found it and thought it was Godzilla and bombed the hell out of it.
That's in chapter 22
 
Oh boy.
 
6:22 PM
"Then the sbi-agon will rise from the pit and eat the island east of the red dragon. The sun will go black, the moon blood red, and the SO chat filled with profanity."
 
If the sun goes black, then how can you see that the moon is turning red?
 
Well, I would say that.... there are stars.... but I suppose it's equally easy to scientifically explain that the sun doesn't go black.... It's mistranslated.

The sun in fact, goes black-lighted.... Becomes a giant black light.... which of course reflects off of the moon's neon underlighting.

The is because the moon was retrofitted for drag racing.
 
Or does it emit a red light? Oh I get it, the moon becomes a whorehouse.
 
Everyone knows that in a drag race, you're car gains an edge by attaching neon lights to the bottom.
 
6:26 PM
Need for Speed underground....
duh
 
Usually I'm the craziest person in the room. This conversation is making me feel uncomfortable..
:)
 
sbi
@Xaade Good to know I'm not "everyone".
 
The moon becomes a whorehouse?
Hadn't thought of that interpretation. Makes sense... the beast does have 7 heads.
 
And OVER 9000 WHORES!!!
 
@sbi Blasphemy!!!
OVER 9000!!!!!!....

That can't be right....!!!!!!
 
6:28 PM
Seeing is believing my friend.
 
sbi
@Xaade What?
 
@sbi Sorry, can't talk.... AFK... powering up for the next thirty episodes..... huaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!
... aaaaaaaaaaaaaa...
@StackedCrooked : Gohan, focus.... you have to look very carefully to see them, they're moving so fast.... look carefully.... see... they do have balls.
 
@Xaade I would hope they don't ...
 
@StackedCrooked ZOMG Piccolo, they have all seven balls..... what will we do.....
Do this dance and merge with me.... we'll fight them as one.
 
@Xaade We can do this. I always wanted to have that..
 
6:39 PM
Thanks for sharing....
 
@Xaade No thanks, I'm hetero..
 
Most ambiguously gay anime ever.
 
@Xaade Really?
 
Puts the SNL skit to shame.
Because.... DBZ didn't even try.
Yeah dude.... after all that.... they taught their 11 yr old kids how to merge....
 
@Xaade Did you see Hunter x Hunter. I always find the opening of the first season so incredibly gay-like.
 
6:43 PM
Hmm.... hadn't ever heard of it
 
this chat is addictive... has anyone noticed?
 
@Xaade It's one of my favorites, but the first season is a bit slow ...
@Tony It consumes me.
 
@Xaade DBZ?
 
@Tony you can't eat just one post.....
nom nom nom
 
@StackedCrooked me too, I have to do some work and I end up chatting here :)
 
6:45 PM
@Tony don't ever ask.... if you ask, you might actually find out what it means.... then you'll wish you hadn't
 
@Xaade yea but I like understanding what words/acronyms mean
 
By the time you finally realize it never ends.... you'll realize that you were only watching it to find out how it ends....
 
it expands my language knowledge... and this time it happens to be English
 
DBZ isn't language knowledge.... it's the abscence of knowlege.... you'll feel stupider four whatchink it....
OMG... it's happnin
 
@Xaade LOL :P
 
6:47 PM
@Tony : You don't need my help... just google search those three letters.... it'll show you everything.
 
For me it shows Don Boscocollege Zwijnaarde
Google likes to show localized results
 
@StackedCrooked Dammit.... I'm American.... We think as if we're the only thing that matterz
Get on board
I've already started selling land in Libya I don't own....
 
I'm from Belgium. We're the low-esteem country that seeks attention.
 
What's Belgium.... I thought Europe only had three countries.
Germany England and France.
And.... aren't they floating out in the atlantic.... I thought that Island sunk....
 
The land in the middle of those three countries is Belgium
 
6:51 PM
Nope.... my map was made in China... there's only a big hole there...
Maybe you should consider buying things from China, so you show up on American maps
 
@StackedCrooked Belgium eh, me here too :)
 
@Tony Seriously?
 
@StackedCrooked yep
 
Kicks dust off boots and tips hat.... then hops in trailer #9 in trailer park. Sings country songs, and spits tobacco while watching the cattle drive by
 
@Tony For some reason I thought you were from the UK...
 
6:53 PM
Yep.... we're all cowboys over here..... I gots my 10 gallon hat from mexicas.
 
@StackedCrooked cuz I might have mentioned I lived there for some years
 
Aah ic.
So, where do you live now?
 
Texas
 
@Xaade Stroustrup is there :)
 
Oh... so you know we're not all cowboys....
Europe forgets that from time to time.
 
6:55 PM
Yep, so you're a country singer then?
 
Pretty soon Russia is going to invade another country again and we'll be like helping you get out of the Neo.U.S.S.R.
 
I think they may invade the North Pole..
 
Cause France be Stalin while Putin.... leaving Marx all in they Pantz-er..... yeah... eh... yeah.
 
But Belgium is far away, and Germany is between us, good buffer.
 
@StackedCrooked Flanders
@StackedCrooked you Flemish or Wallonion?
 
6:57 PM
I don't know.... Napoleon got lost trying to find the biggest landmass in Asia.
 
@Tony Cool, I live in Gent.
 
@StackedCrooked lol I live close enough
 
sbi
@Tony See, that would have made two for a Gent meetup!
 
My Gah..... In America you'd be like next door neighbors.... living that close....
 
@Xaade Lol you're right.
 
6:58 PM
@sbi I know, I missed it
 
@StackedCrooked meh... not as bad as China.... there you'd be crapping and it hit the other in the face....
 
ew
 
@StackedCrooked so what do kinda of things do you code?
 
makes you glad you're not in china then, eh ;)
 
@jalf Relativity.....
Not literally....
 
7:00 PM
@Tony brilliant followup question after discovering you live practically next door to each others ;)
 
China's cool.... been there. Great people. Great drinkers too.
 
@Xaade I know. Don't take everything so seriously ;)
 
@jalf yea true :) LOL
 
the world is much too silly to be taken seriously
 
@Tony I recently joined a company named Excentis where I work on an application called "ByteBlower". It's used for network traffic generation and analysis.
 
7:00 PM
@jalf I agree :)
 
@jalf Yeah... America shut down after realizing they can't determine how not to spend money.....
 
@StackedCrooked networking is an interest of mine... bit of packet analysis is fun :)
 
@Tony Before that I worked for Netlog, a social network site. Make desktop apps like Netlog Uploader and Toolbar.
 
@StackedCrooked I think someone at my current job might have worked there... or know sb there
 
@Tony Yes, it's very fascinating.
 
7:01 PM
@Xaade they haven't shut down yet, have they?
 
@StackedCrook : That read to me like "I worked at Excrement working on an app called "B*tchBlower"
 
@Xaade hahahah :P
 
@Xaade Now go wash your teeth with soap!
 
Network traffic indeed
Sorry, I have to learn to look directly at what I'm reading
 
@StackedCrooked wow, that's quite a change from one in the other...
 
7:03 PM
@Tony bah, both are about networks, yes? ;)
 
@jalf yea but one possibly a bit higher level then the other
 
Yeah, it is. From desktop applications on Mac/Windows to Linux server development.
 
sbi
@jalf Yeah, but did you notice how their second question, right after "where do you live?", was "Flemish or Wallonian?" That's how you can tell they're actual Belgians: What unites them is not as important as this distinction. :)
 
@jalf the only really common factor is C++ . Good enough :)
 
So if weblog are bloggers... then Netlog are tloggers....
 
7:04 PM
@Xaade Netloggers :)
 
@sbi you're very up to scratch with all this Belgian politics it seems ....
 
@sbi True. It's like two different countries. Like an .ar file.
 
@sbi Isn't that Europe in a nutshell?
 
sbi
@StackedCrooked Wow, there's applications to create network traffic? Can't you just, say, hook into your local ISP and use all the porn downloads?
@jalf No, it's not.
 
@sbi they're use for DOS attacks
 
7:05 PM
@sbi Yes, it creates traffic :)
 
When faced with an education financial aid system that determined minority race by skin tone (darker than X = free aid).... Brazilians said they didn't want it because they didn't want anything that would give them "American style racism."

Ouch...
 
@StackedCrooked you're gonna DOS the netz out of existence aren't you?
 
@Tony That's classified. Sorry.
 
@sbi It's to give websites their epeen when they fail at making the visitor counter uppage.
 
sbi
@Tony Actually, I'm not. I know next to nothing about Belgium, but that posse of taking months to finally form a new government because these two can't sit on the same table somewhat got around in Europe, you know.
 
7:07 PM
@StackedCrooked You don't have to be sorry for that. It is the way it is :)
@sbi I'm sure it has, and if you ask me it's fuckin rediculous! Can't people just get along.... cricky
 
@sbi Welcome to America
 
@sbi We still don't have a government btw
and soon America won't either hahah
 
sbi
@Tony I'm glad to hear that not all Belgians are like that.
 
I always wondered how you spell it....
Thought it was Australian....
 
@sbi hm, I'd say quite a large part of modern Europe can be summed up as people with nearly everything in common getting hung up on the few remaining differences
 
sbi
7:09 PM
@Tony Really? I hadn't heard about it for months and just thought I missed or forgot that it was solved!
 
@sbi its mostly the politicians that cannot get along, cuz the Belgain people don't actually give two cents about this whole thing
 
@Tony America has a government... I thought it was just two sets of whiny kids complaining that the other side keeps sneaking illegal aliens in.
 
@jalf I do feel that Europe is becoming more united on a cultural level..
 
sbi
@Xaade I actually lived and worked in the US for half a year in the nineties, Don't get me started.
 
@StackedCrooked Nah... it's the big brother boots of the EU stomping on your throat....
 
7:10 PM
@StackedCrooked agreed
 
sbi
@Tony As you just so apty demonstrated. Oh, wait...
 
but then again, it couldn't become any less culturally united than it used to be ;)
 
@jalf You got a point there.
 
@sbi lol, it was mere curiousity as to whether he spoke my language or French, which I happen to be very bad at
 
It's interesting to see how Europeans think of Europe....
 
7:11 PM
I think of it as a funny old place
 
Seems like everyone has the same disgust for their gov.
 
@Xaade very much unlike Americans think about America
@Xaade don't Americans have disgust for their Govt. ?
 
@Tony Uh.... define unlike???? That's a very broad statement.
 
@Tony Everyone does?
 
7:13 PM
@Xaade I think it's true though. I don't think I've ever met an American who thought of America the way Europeans think of Europe. They're different places with different histories and different cultures, after all
 
@Xaade well in Europe there is this thing that Americans always seem to have this idea that they're the only ones on this planet... that's what I was alluding to
 
He didn't say that Americans always love their country, or anything like that
 
I mean.... France revolting.... Greece falling apart. Russia crying like a spoiled kid. UK having to excuse being friends with America. And everyone else wondering why there's suddenly a lot of Muslims in their country.
 
sbi
@jalf I wouldn't say this. In an area that isn't much bigger than a few US states we happen to have more different people, languages, and cultures than what survived in most of the two Americas. Yet we have managed to have open borders, a common currency, and a conjoint government. I consider this a huge improvement over the state of affairs 25 years ago.
@Tony Ah, Ok. I can see this being important.
 
@Tony We aren't the only ones on the planet????
 
7:14 PM
@sbi absolutely. But we still bicker over the most trivial differences. We just don't start actual wars over it as much anymore ;)
 
@sbi my German is better :) Although I need more practice. hint hint
@Xaade yea well in Europe that is a common way to think of Americans that they believe they're the only ones on this planet, cuz some really come across that way
 
sbi
@Tony de.comp.lang.iso-c++!
 
and no that wasn't meant to offend you!
 
I think I made a comment earlier how Europe thinks Americans think they're the only ones on the planet.... I was right.... huzza
 
@sbi :)
 
7:15 PM
I can't link my own comments and it drifted off the screen.
 
@Xaade you were correct in saying so
personally I have no problem with Americans, and I've been to the US and I liked what I saw and made some very good friends there
 
sbi
@jalf Yeah, in that Europeans are like an old couple: bickering over minor differences but wouldn't even think about divorce.
 
@Tony No... it's just that some are so focused on being pissed off that our gov. condescends to everyone trying to appease them, instead of just doing what's right for us and letting everyone else sort out themselves.
 
@sbi I usually think of it like siblings. Always fighting internally, until one of them is threatened by an outsider
 
sbi
@Xaade You can, it just takes some work. And you can also quote it, inline. (All described in the newbie hints, BTW.) And I bet your browser has a vertical scrollbar. So stop inventing silly excuses.
 
7:18 PM
Like us being in the Middle East.... honestly... we can only make it worse by nuking Mecca... and if we aren't going to do that.... then why do we act like we think we can fix it all.

If everyone hates our ass.... let them eat cake.... let's go home.
@sbi It went off the scrollable area... and I don't feel like digging. That's my excuse.
 
sbi
@jalf Yeah, that, too, fits. Anyway, it takes being close to bicker. Strangers don't do this.
@Xaade More excuses. "load older messages"
 
Seriously... I'm tired of hearing everyone say how much they hate us....
Then hold hands out waiting for a wad of $$$.....
 
sbi
@Xaade Not everyone hates you. I don't, and neither does the majority of my country's people.
 
@sbi I understand that... the media guilts us into thinking so.
 
And I think it's natural to some extent for Americans to feel/act like they're the only ones on the planet, because in their daily lives, they are. In Europe, you can't throw a rock without hitting someone in another country. Whereas in the US, especially given its history since WW2, the rest of the world just doesn't seem as relevant, or up-close.
 
sbi
7:20 PM
That, however, doesn't mean I wouldn't mock you.
 
The media is at fault for pretty much everything. THat is my theory
 
that isn't a criticism of Americans, just a bit of amateur sociology ;)
 
@sbi People don't hate people. Governments hate Governments.... then lie to the people.
 
@sbi that's one difference I've noticed. Americans aren't good at being mocked. They tend to take it much too seriously ;)
 
@Xaade don't forget the media!
@jalf Well, I'm american, and I can take it, though I know the type of people you are talking about
 
7:22 PM
I've had my share of traveling.... and outside of a few obnoxious jerks in France... I can't find anyone that "hates" America
 
@SamBloomberg yeah, I hoped it wasn't necessary to say "of course this doesn't apply to every american"
 
@jalf You have a very valid point there :)
 
@Xaade I think you'll find a few in the middle east too
 
@jalf Yeah. I mean, every country makes fun of other countries
 
Even in the Middle East... they don't Hate us.... the powers that be do.... the ones that brainwash a bunch of kids into committing genocide and suicide.
 
7:22 PM
@Xaade nah, some do
 
Yeah
and no one cares about people who don't hate, so the media only shows the ones that do
 
If you can be brainwashed into a suicide bombing, I think you can be brainwashed into hating someone as well ;)
 
Yes.
Some people hate other people in other countries, but most don't
 
and of course, there are some valid reasons for hating your country. They should just be weighed against the good sides
 
The media is notorious for spreading bad news and hate and making people think it's all bad everywhere
 
7:23 PM
@jalf Yes!
 
but some people focus only on the bad, others only on the good
 
Well... I would say that Libya is a lost cause.... the whole country is militant.... which my liberal friends find it hard to believe.

Dude when the woman on the school bus is packing 50calibur heat.... she's pretty serious at hating something.
 
which bluntly isn't true
 
@Tony Yeah, because good stuff isn't interesting
According to the media
Bad stuff gets higher ratings
 
@SamBloomberg that's the problem!
 
7:24 PM
@Xaade So far, it's not my impression that the Libyans hate you/us yet. But it's still a mess, of course
 
@Tony because no one cares if I said hello to a muslim. They care if I don't say hi, and take it as me hating them
 
@jalf The valid reason is that we pulled the $ out of Iran and Iraq and Afghan..... other than that.... we support Israel.... and those Ms truly hate "Zionists"....
 
@Xaade Don't forget that Israel is pretty good at oppressing the Palestinians, which a lot of people are a wee bit upset about. They don't exactly have a track record of being better than their neighbors
Also a few wars, assassinations and funding of dictators comes to mind
 
the other problem is that religion is being misused to create wars and spread hate towards other people that don't have the same beliefs. Look everyone has the right to belief what they wish, and if people just started respecting each others beliefs, instead of fighting about it, then this world would be a much better place already
 
I personally don't care to get into the argument about israel and palestine
 
7:26 PM
The whole middle east is pretty messed up, and let's be honest here, the US and western countries in general has a lot to do with that
 
That's what everyone thought when we helped the hoodlums fight off Russia... then they went dessert turban on us and next thing you know... two planes and 9/11, and we're in Iraq.

It's always been about the warlords not getting their American pie.... and causing all this Koran hate to hide a political plot.
 
Both sides have valid arguments, and both are wrong in their own ways.
 
@Xaade that's a naive perspective
it also leaves out most of the reasons why those people hate the US
 
Dude... the rest is media hype.
I have friends in the Military..... those people... do... not... hate... us....
 
Seriously, if you look at what the CIA has been up to in their countries, if you look at how many of their dictators only gained power because of support from the US, I can understand a few people being a bit disgruntled
@Xaade the military? Why would the US military hate you?
 
7:28 PM
@Xaade there's just never a good reason to start a war, cause at the the end of the day a war does NOT solve anything. Only makes it worse.
 
@Tony There's only a good reason if you actually treat it like a war.... WWII solved something... or Europe would be eating Nazi-os for breakfast.
Pacifism is death.
 
and not a singleton has come into this conversation :)
 
@Xaade please, don't make me call you ignorant again
also, without a war, Hitler wouldn't have been able to conquer anything ;)
 
I'm not ignorant.
 
hence, the war didn't solve anything
 
7:30 PM
@jalf I see your point.
At the same time
 
other than a subset of the problems caused by the same war
 
@Xaade Hitler did NOT solve anything, he only set himself up to be hated by inciting violence towards them
 
At the same time.....
You can't let people walk over you
 
@Xaade Why not, exactly?
 
War in itself doesn't solve anything...
 
7:31 PM
sometimes, the alternative is worse ;)
 
@Xaade there's nothing that communication cannot solve... but not communication with bullets
 
But defense of the realm... is more important than some Pacifist ideal.
Really..... did communication stop Hitler
 
by the way, here's another generalization over Americans vs Europeans, I think ;)
 
Would communication have ever stopped Hitler.
 
@Xaade maybe. We don't know
 
7:32 PM
@Xaade he should have been locked up before he even started... he was plain psychotic
 
Right.... UK tried.... then got the carpet bomb
 
Well, actually, yes it very likely would
 
AGAIN... in an ideal world, you wouldn't even need war.
 
but perhaps someone might have got through to him with communication alone, we will never know
it was never really tried
 
You're assuming that someone could have stopped him before he got into power
 
7:33 PM
Better communication (and understanding) after WW1 would have led to an outcome where Germany wasn't oppressed so badly, and that again would have led to a situation where Germany had more to lose, and less to gain, by starting a war
Communication is why we haven't had a WW3
 
The Appeasement of Hitler is the main reason why the Holocaust persisted....
 
@jalf true that :)
@Xaade it persisted because it was created to persist and the conflict was kept burning...
 
Wow.... ok.... communication would have kept Columbus from exploring American, which would have prevented the American Revolution.
 
It's so easy to just blame Hitler for all the world's evils. But one man, no matter how eloquent, and no matter how crazy, and no matter his mustache, can't make a major country from declaring war on the world
 
@jalf you underestimate the power of information control.
 
7:35 PM
We put ourselves in a situation where war was pretty much inevitable. We forced Germany into a situation where their only way out was a war. Hitler got support from his population because the population was just as pissed off as he was
@Xaade you overestimate how well one man can control information ;)
 
Yeah, but who had Germany believing that it was the Jews fault?
 
sbi
@Xaade No, he doesn't. You just overestimate the power of one man to control information.
 
@jalf he got support because he forced them into supporting him by black propaganda and other means
 
@Xaade the Jews weren't important. We'd have had the war with or without nazism in the front
 
@jalf Just look at how Jeff Atwood controls the flow of information on Meta with an iron fist.
3
 
sbi
7:35 PM
@jalf Great minds think alike! :)
 
@Tony how do you force anyone into supporting you, if you're not given any power to begin with?
 
sbi
@JamesMcNellis LOL!
 
I will control your children by information.... - Hitler.
 
@jalf give people enough false information that they can believe and you can control anyone
 
he was able to make decisions and force people and do all the other things he did, because he was popular, because the people were just as bloodthirsty as he was, at the moment. People needed someone to blame (the jews), and people needed revenge (on Europe)
@Tony and how exactly would you do that?
Your average man on the street can't control what information I get
 
7:37 PM
@jalf Half of the problem in America is uninformed voters....
 
And Hitler would have been the average man on the street if a lot of people hadn't agreed with him
 
@jalf yea well he was clever enough to work his way up to a position in which he had enough power to do this
 
The recent collapse was because people were taught to believe they could have it all....
 
@Tony but he wasn't unique. If he hadn't done it, then someone else would
 
sbi
@Tony Didn't you just tell me that all your politicians combined can't even talk Joe Belgian into hating the other half of the country? Why do you think that is, and what do you think it would take?
 
7:38 PM
because Germany was boiling over with people who thought like him
 
@sbi The internet has changed things
 
@Xaade yes it has. But not that much
 
Hitler will never happen again as long as everyone has free access to the internet
 
People were still able to exchange information 50 years ago
@Xaade I thought you said a moment ago that communication couldn't stop a war? ;)
 
@jalf I said communication between powers can't stop a war.
 
7:40 PM
@sbi well, if some politician started a propaganda campaign against the other side of Belgium, it wouldn't take too long to convince people, mainly cuz people are tired of hearing BS... but the media is doing quite a good job already I must say
 
Well, the rest of us weren't talking about "between powers" specifically, but about communication in general
 
Simply talking to a leader of a country that has full information control will SOLVE NOTHING.
@jalf At which point, I'll agree with you.
 
@Xaade True, but 1) no leader has full information control, and 2) that's not what we claimed
 
sbi
@Xaade Are you trying to tell me the Flemish and Wallonians aren't hitting each other over their heads because they have access to the Internet?! Because that would be extremely silly.
 
@sbi this is a PR world, good or bad, don't underestimate it
 
7:40 PM
But.... we live in a world, where the countries that hate us, have a population without access to information.
 
@sbi that would be silly :P
 
@Xaade no.
 
sbi
@Tony And why are the media doing that, and what would it take to change it?
 
We live in a world where 1) there are valid reasons to hate the US (but also some very valid reasons not to hate it), and 2) where everyone has access to some information
 
@sbi because they are sad and obviously find a nasty kind of pleasure in generating hate and dislike
 
7:42 PM
@jalf Tell me @jalf. How can a woman that isn't allow to leave her home without male escort supposed to discover that Americans aren't evil haters???
You CAN have full information control
 
@Xaade so you're saying that it's the women who hate your country?
 
@sbi I don't know what it would take to change it...
 
@jalf No.... I'm proving that you can have full information control....
 
Anyway, don't you think she's allowed to talk to her sons? To her friends?
Sure, you can have full information control by locking someone in the cellar
but you can't have full information control over a country's population
because no ruler has a big enough cellar
 
@jalf You're underestimating the persecution of women under extreme Islam.
 
7:44 PM
@Xaade No I'm not. I know they're allowed to talk to other human beings, such as their family
 
@jalf you don't need 100%.... you need enough to fuel hatred....
 
changing the goalposts again
 
sbi
@Tony That's easy: To change anything in the media sector, it takes money. What they support and what they rage against is driven by money, mostly. At least that's true for the tabloids that control the minds of the millions of dumb ones.
 
you were talking about FULL information control before
 
@jalf Ok
1. You CAN have full information control.
2. In cases where you don't have 100%, you can have near 99%....
 
7:44 PM
@sbi look if I went around telling everyone that C++ (for example) was bad and it sucked and whatever, and I was a credible source until that point, people would believe me and now I've generated hate that wasn't based on facts...
 
by the way, I'm getting very close to another scathing comment about ignorance. Your knowledge of other cultures and of, say, the last 100 years of history, is quite lacking in some vital areas
anyway, I'd better get some coding done
 
Lock borders... cut phone lines.... kill border crossings on site.... and shut off electricity.
 
@Xaade you mean all the things they did in Egypt?
which didn't work?
 
Egypt eventually had access to the internet.
 
people can and will communicate. You can make it less efficient, sure, but you can't prevent it
 
7:46 PM
@sbi you're very correct that it's driven by money... I experienced again the power of money to generate tension between people, right in my family... it's just crazy how some people are way too stuck on money.
 
@Xaade Yes, until they cut it off ;)
 
sbi
@Tony Millions of programmers do exactly that, yet, C++ is quite alive and kicking.
 
and that still didn't work
 
But people already had the disposition by then
I just said earlier the internet has changed everything.
 
anyway, every country has access to the internet to some extent. Even if it's only one in a thousand who has a PC, and only one in ten of those who have a modem, someone in the country has access to the internet
 
7:47 PM
Go low tech enough and poor enough, and you can have full information control.
 
@sbi well possibly because they've been informed by someone that it is that way, or they've read it and are gullible enough to believe everything they read without questioning
 
sbi
@Tony And that's where my original argument comes in: To swing public opinions, a charismatic person is certainly helpful, but it also takes people wanting to believe the lies, and it certainly takes lots of money. And that money will certainly be swinging public opinions into the direction wanted by those where the money comes from.
 
And as I said before, the internet hasn't changed things that much. Before, people had phones, letters, smugglers and spies carrying messages, travelling minstrels, whatever
 
Also, lack of education makes people more swayable.
 
@Xaade you're still assuming that no one can hate your country unless it's a conspiracy and they're being brainwashed.
 
7:48 PM
@jalf where did I say that.
 
@Xaade throughout the last 20 minutes of conversation
 
@jalf "Can you read my mind"
 
Your country hasn't been equally kind to everyone. Some people have pretty reasonable reasons for disliking the US
 
sbi
@Tony: So if you see public opinions swinging, ask yourself: Who would be interested in this and have enough money to pull this off? The guy in front of the crowd is usually a mere puppet.
 
and no, I can't
 
7:48 PM
@jalf I said those exact words....
No I didn't
 
@sbi Yes you're right!
 
I said, in a lot of cases, people that "hate" us have less access to information. I said that in most of the places which are supposed to "hate" us according to the media, the people (citizens) don't really hate us at all. Most of the hate is from the warlords and those they recruit.

Most isn't all however.

People have a reason to hate us, because we've done some bad things.

Honestly... I don't care much, because even when we help they turn on us later.
At which point... applying to Libya. Most of the country is militarized. There's a civil war occurring between factions, that will escalate once the dictator is gone. The dictator (as evil as he is) stabilized the country. Everytime we remove one of these evil guys, the country destabilizes into civil war. The warring factions later turn on us because of various reasons.
 
@Xaade you said that the hate in the middle east was really just the warlords wanting a piece of the american pie, or something like that
@Xaade the rebels are basically unarmed, you know that, right?
 
So right now it looks like we're helping freedom fighters....
I'm telling you once this is over.... they're going to explode into civil war, and we'll be the bad guys again.
 
incompetents with hardly any weapons
 
7:53 PM
we should discuss singletons and sex :) much more interesting :)
 
@Xaade True on the first part. The second part depends on what we do from now on. So far, the plan has been pretty specifically to protect the civilian population, rather than help the rebels. If we stick with that, we won't be the bad guys,. But you're right, we can't fight their wars, and if we try, it won't change anything, and we'll end up looking bad
 
Yeah, a lot of the shifting powers that be are really non-religious. These powers drive the religious extremists that are actually doing the terrorist stuff.
 
@Tony so, have you had sex with any singletons lately?
 
@jalf they have failed to turn me on LOL
@jalf that cracked me up :)
 
sbi
@Xaade I know this is pretty slippery terrain, and I'm likely to be running from this discussion right after I said it, but say it I must: 1) It's usually not the well-fed, but those who lack too much who need someone to hate. Low education comes into this mostly only to the extend that it correlates with poverty. 2) Your country has often been pretty ruthless in enforcing its own interest, and was not squeamish at all in doing so against those I listed under #1. In the long run, that hurts.
 
7:59 PM
@sbi you have a point, is all I'm gonna say
 

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