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Ell
2:00 PM
oh dern.
 
I had a nice idea.
I don't have time for it :(
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes did it hurt?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes share it with us :P
 
I realized I can implement F# computation expressions as a library in boo. And it would actually be a nice and interesting project.
 
and WRT games without levels, Brutal Legend uses that system
 
2:01 PM
boo is fucking awesome.
 
user142019
 
What a jerk.
 
boo?
 
apparently this is boo
 
smooth
 
2:02 PM
@thecoshman boo.codehaus.org (warning: terrible website)
 
user142019
@TonyTheLion He's good at hiding indeed.
 
Am I the only one around here
<draws pistol>
Who doesn't see that image?
@R.MartinhoFernandes ergh
 
@thecoshman No.
 
@TonyTheLion sort your shit out
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes that looks like Zoidlang
 
2:03 PM
@thecoshman Basically, the language with the coolest meta-programming facilities around.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes so shit?
 
Lisp has cool metaprogramming
 
Like, I can fucking implement F#'s bestest feature as a library.
 
Lisp macros are written in Lisp
 
Lisp macros are not hygienic.
 
2:04 PM
@rightfold wtf
 
but you don't like Lisp :(
 
@BartekBanachewicz boo macros are written in boo. boo compilation steps are written in boo.
 
but I agree this language has this athmosphere of "uselessness" around
@R.MartinhoFernandes weee.
 
Here's new attempt at my boo
 
Something like HsLua syntax modules?
 
2:05 PM
Macros are for wusses.
 
user142019
@BartekBanachewicz not even close.
 
oh wait, these are written in Haskell
 
user142019
Boo uses indentation instead of braces and semicolons.
 
pythonish
 
@rightfold Python syntax.
 
user142019
2:06 PM
I.e. indentation.
 
I am hungry
 
user1182183
does this look much better compared to the last one? :P or are there still some suggestions? :4
 
but I came a bit earlier today so I will be free in an hour
 
user142019
@BartekBanachewicz me too
 
@ThePet it isn't as terrible as it was.
that's for sure.
 
user1182183
2:08 PM
@BartekBanachewicz yay :D
 
@ThePet I would now separate all Dx specific code
 
@BartekBanachewicz me too
 
Ell
I need to redo my shader/program class design now >.<
 
and put in in some static drawing backend
 
user1182183
well next class I'm going to make is dropdown_button
 
2:09 PM
@Ell hrhrh Engine::Program
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz I need to learn for myself :P
 
@TonyTheLion Missed focus -- you always want to focus on the eyes, not the nose.
 
user1182183
@BartekBanachewicz so, a wrapper which I can for example change the .cpp file to another one and all stuff magically becomes opengl? :P
 
@Ell that doesn't mean you can't take a loot at my attempts, no? Do you really think that you will learn more by cracking it without any reference? Also, my classes aren't perfect. Most likely you will notice some problems with them. And then we will both learn :)
@ThePet opengl or whatever you might want, yes.
you will need a drawing api though :cripes:
 
user1182183
yeah I might want to do that, for sure, but that later, now going to make some NXT Remote Control code (what this application should do).
 
Ell
2:11 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Fair enough :)
 
1 hour ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
Everytime I see "drawing API" I want to run away immediately.
 
user1182183
hm, is there anything else besides opengl and DirectX ?
 
yes
Device-specific
PS3 native API for one
 
no no no no!
 
but in general, OpenGL is everywhere
 
user1182183
2:13 PM
mentioning PS3, I'm going to use a RawDevice wrapper (for PS3 controller), but it has ofcourse to work with stupid windows message events, isn't there a way to "force fetch" data from a HID device? ; o
 
@BartekBanachewicz the big secret from MS, directX is just a wrapper for OGL :O
 
@thecoshman God, wouldn't that be nice! I could only wish.
 
@thecoshman that would be quite funny, but of course it's not.
 
user1182183
you never know..
 
@ThePet I do.
 
2:14 PM
@BartekBanachewicz or is it... let the conspiracy start
 
I am a goddamn professional.
 
user1182183
So, you're sure DirectX is a wrapper for OpenGL? :D
 
</cheese>
@ThePet I am sure it isn't
 
user1182183
:p
 
@BartekBanachewicz shut up with your truth, it's not fun
 
2:15 PM
Run a DX program through gDebugger. It will expose the conspiracy.
 
well, I can give you fun truth
most of the drivers have at least some similar bottom, and Dx/OGL stuff is built on top of it
 
now, how much it is depends on the company of course
 
So, Amazon somehow figured I was a brony and is now sending me offers about MLP merchandise.
I wonder how they do that.
 
user1182183
well if anyone knows how to access the raw device drivers from intel hd graphics or nvidia I'm happy to try it out XD
 
2:16 PM
h4x0rs
 
@ThePet even if I knew I wouldn't tell you
 
erm... SFW-ish
 
user1182183
@BartekBanachewicz openCL ?:P
 
user142019
 
@ThePet OpenCL is completely different topic
 
user142019
2:17 PM
@TonyTheLion old
 
user1182183
I just shouted something that came to my mind
 
and a completely different driver part, for that matter
 
@EtiennedeMartel You bought some MLP merchandise from them?
 
user1182183
I had to disable gpu video rendering because nvopencl.dll (nvidia) was crashing
 
IME Amazon recommendations are the crappiest heuristics around.
 
2:17 PM
@ThePet yea you people here generally tend to shout a lot of stuff without giving it a thought
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Nope.
 
@ThePet ahaha, ITT Nvidia fails at drivers
 
Buy one book => get a zillion recommendations for different editions of the same book for the next month.
 
now, really, they don't, but I can laugh a bit, no?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes nailed it. :P
 
user1182183
2:19 PM
well when you by an nvidia quadro you get good drivers.. for a high price
 
Actually, I bought The Master and Margarita in March, so it's been two months now and it still tries to convince me to buy more of it. About five times more.
 
user1182183
it's not gaming hardware but I wonder if it would berform better than geforces for games..
 
@ThePet no, it would perform worse
 
user1182183
heh ok that's one question less in my crazy head :P
 
Aren't those the same chip with different cripple settings?
 
2:21 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes They're realy making sure you got that book.
 
Or am I confusing with some other chip?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes it's all in the drivers, really
@R.MartinhoFernandes well, you are quite right
the base chip is more or less the same
but Quadro devices are set up and optimized for something else
 
user1182183
yeah I can imagine the geforce drivers are aimed at DirectX/OpenGL and quadro at gpu support for other stuff
 
Quadro are aimed at streaming operations mostly
 
The plot, I lost it.
 
2:22 PM
like a few Gigs of data just flowing through a card
Games require faster access to small stuff fragmented in memory
also Quadro have to deliver reliable results
so they are underclocked, just like Xeon processors
 
@EtiennedeMartel Luckily, I never bough any copy of The Little Prince from them. I would probably start an infinite feedback loop of buying those, until I ended up with entire shelves of the same book, and go on a mad search for my middle name.
 
user1182183
It would totally rock if the 2-socket mobo's would support two i7's xD
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, it's a good book.
 
WTF 120MB/s transfer
 
user1182183
@BartekBanachewicz yeah that's normal data disk rate
 
user1182183
2:24 PM
(5.9 windows score index)
 
@ThePet across network.
 
user142019
Jesus Christ
 
user142019
is dead.
 
user1182183
@BartekBanachewicz that's quite normal in the weekend for me
 
@EtiennedeMartel Being tracked by the CIA isn't worth it.
 
user1182183
2:25 PM
with smaller files I get 70-80 MB
 
user142019
What? I never think.
 
bought ... a book? torrents ftw.
 
@ThePet do you have a fiber net?
 
Can't torrent paper.
 
user1182183
@BartekBanachewicz no, I'm talking about LAN :d
 
2:25 PM
@Abyx that's called piracy FYI
 
user142019
You wouldn't download paper.
 
@ThePet yeah, I just have a crappy switch (well, a couple of switches) in my room
 
And tbh, fuck off. I am going to play the "I am a collector" card.
 
I buy all the books legally
 
user1182183
@BartekBanachewicz heh I bought a 5 port 1gbps switch for 10 euros :D
 
user1182183
2:26 PM
incl adapter
 
user142019
goto train;
 
user142019
Today was the worst day of my life.
 
I didn't really buy these you know
I just asked IT for some
 
Xeo
So, my boss just preordered TC++PL 4th Ed for him and me.
Nice
 
that's nice indeed
 
user1182183
2:27 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I remember the time when I was young, ~9, I asked my grandpa (electrician) why a computer couldn't have 2 processors, he told me that if there were two processors, you can see it as me trying to lift grandpa, I can't accomplish it xD or something
 
I am not buying any new book until I finish Josuttis though
@ThePet TBH we can't scale well above 4 cores now
it's a fucking trap.
we're basically stuck at 4x3.5Ghz and noone has any idea what to do now
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Good point.
 
well, I mean, they sort of do.
SIMD and stuff
 
Ell
@rightfold why?
 
user1182183
@BartekBanachewicz I read that a company has a 64 cores (consumer) processor, they want 3 million funding and they start to sell them at $99
 
2:29 PM
@ThePet are you aware that 64-core processor will be slower than 4-core in 99.9% of applications?
 
Ell
@ThePet parralela?
 
@ThePet Company uses 64 CORE PROCESSOR! Nothing happens!
 
Krungthepmahanakhon Amonrattanakosin Mahintharayutthaya Mahadilokphop Noppharatratchathaniburirom Udomratchaniwetmahasathan Amonphimanawatansathit Sakkathattiyawitsanukamprasit AKA Bangkok
 
user1182183
@Ell I think so, don't remember it :P
 
2:30 PM
I've read about new instructions that are coming in Haswell
 
@BartekBanachewicz I have been telling my roommates that this would happen for years.
 
@TonyTheLion For a moment there, I thought you were crazy.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes well as I said, now extended instructions are the thing. Haswell gonna have basically hardware mutexes.
 
user1182183
@BartekBanachewicz liquid nitrogen, and overclocking to 5GHz
 
2:30 PM
@TonyTheLion Bang cock.
 
user1182183
:D
 
@ThePet lol
Just lol
 
you can request it to read and write from two pointers at once
 
user1182183
@BartekBanachewicz ;o
 
yes, I forgot the instruction name
 
2:31 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes haha
 
fetchx64gb or something like that
 
Woah, 64 gigabytes.
 
lol no
the biggest one allows 128 bytes iirc
 
Yeah, I was joking.
 
Transactional Synchronization Extensions (TSX) is an extension to the x86 instruction set architecture that adds hardware transactional memory support. It was documented by Intel in February 2012 and is scheduled to be first implemented in Intel microprocessors based on the Haswell microarchitecture. Features TSX provides two software interfaces for designating code regions for transactional execution. Hardware Lock Elision (HLE) is an instruction prefix-based interface designed to be backward compatible with processors without TSX support. Restricted Transactional Memory (RTM) is a new ...
 
2:34 PM
yes, that's it
I found the wiki article but the instruction I was referring to was not there
Oh, now I remember!
I read that in Game Developer's Magazine
 
So, I installed Unity yesterday, because I'm working on a scene editor at work and I wanted inspiration, feature-wise, and man, that shit looks tight.
 
aha, there it is
CMPXCHG8B
it's going to get CMPXCHG64B and CMPXCHG128B IIRC
 
@EtiennedeMartel tight as in, do it exactly like this or suck ass?
 
@thecoshman I mean their editor looks really cool.
 
I think Unity is rather decent.
 
2:36 PM
I can't say for the engine.
 
Still, limited.
Like every ready-made engine, I guess.
 
I work in tools, you know. And I think the game industry's biggest problem, right now, is access to decent tools.
 
it's a nice idea, but I am currently enjoying the low level stuff
 
@EtiennedeMartel not only a problem in Games industry
 
@EtiennedeMartel we could use general game info interchange format
 
2:37 PM
@EtiennedeMartel TIL
 
like scene descriptions and whatnot
that way editors could be separated from engines
Let's make GGF spec
 
@EtiennedeMartel situation: there are 0 standards
 
you can do that anyway, you just need engines to be a bit more upfront about what formats they take, so that people can make other tools that create content for them
 
Nux vomica is strychnine.
 
2:38 PM
.udk or whatnot is not a standard.
 
and the tools need to be less tied to a certain format for a certain engine
 
I mean like real, separated from any engine
IMHO that might work
 
it is a standard, just not one universally used or agreed on
 
@BartekBanachewicz Why not?
 
would have to be very generic
 
2:39 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Also, on a different subject. /cc @rightfold
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes 'blah blah blah, closed source, blah blah blah'
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes because the spec isn't available, for one
 
@thecoshman Good call.
 
Also Standard has to be reliable
not changing with just one company having an idea
 
Maybe I will mail you a cookie.
:P
 
2:40 PM
@thecoshman Also bloat.
 
yeah, the GGF spec would need to be as short as possible
 
@EtiennedeMartel somewhat required on account of making it more generic
 
@thecoshman uh not really
the less you write, the more generic you are
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz ggf?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes :O I just realised... you are going to get a copy of the invoice, with my address on it
 
2:41 PM
@thecoshman Hahahahahahaha
 
@Ell that's the format I've just created
 
@BartekBanachewicz for the format to be able to handle more situations, files size will increase. A spec for a format that has no flexibility will allow for a file that contains nothing more then a 'this is that stupid file format'
 
@thecoshman that's exactly story of COLLADA
 
@EtiennedeMartel not a huge deal... my address is already fairly public on account of my SO
 
@thecoshman Erm. Now I feel awkward that I deliberately hid my address.
 
2:43 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes trust man, some times idiots just have to have it :P
 
I'll move out next month, anyway.
 
I am going home, I am fucking hungry
 
@ScottW nope
 
I will make GGF spec draft on the way home :P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh, I hope I don't blow up some guys new flat :P
 
2:43 PM
@thecoshman What, only one person lives there?
 
@EtiennedeMartel huh?
@BartekBanachewicz GGF?
 
@thecoshman Well, you are not exactly a stranger from the Internet anymore, but you are still a stranger from Internet, if you get what I mean?
 
@ScottW describe it
@R.MartinhoFernandes no I totally understand
 
In c++, why variables passed by reference cannot be NULL (like in C#) ?
 
@tigrou Because that is the promise of a reference...?
 
2:45 PM
@tigrou well... they can... but they can't because NULL (well, null_ptr) is not an object
 
Ell
How do I pass a parameter to a constructor of an object in an std::map? e.g. if the object isn't present in the map, this value should be passed in order to construct the value for the requested key. If that makes sense? :/
 
It's like asking why when you add 1 to 1 you get a value of "1 + 1".
 
you can't give someone a reference to an object that does not exist
 
@ScottW yea I saw that on Google Maps
 
Because null references don't make sense.
 
2:46 PM
@tigrou Also, a null reference can be obtained only by dereferencing a null pointer, which is obviously UB.
 
Cue Hoare's billion-dollar mistake.
> I call it my billion-dollar mistake. It was the invention of the null reference in 1965.
 
@tigrou Becausse it's a bad idea.
 
@ScottW lol
 
time to move on from silly null references now people
 
@ScottW Thought so
 
2:47 PM
ergh... it's only Wednesday :(
 
So, yeah, it's the third millenium, and language designers are still repeating mistakes from 1965.
We suck.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes well, to be fair, we have been doing religion for nearly 100 times longer, and look at the mess that's still in.
 
lolwat
 
that's a star
 
@Griwes : what do you mean by UB?
 
2:49 PM
@thecoshman Not like I care.
 
@ScottW So much love.
 
@tigrou undefined behaviour, technically, ANYTHING can happen
 
@tigrou A crash waiting to happen.
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Swapping bodily fluids. [c++] [c++11] [fluids] [no-helpdesk]
 
@ScottW tut tut tut 'Rapptz and myself'
 
2:49 PM
@tigrou Google -> "C++ UB"
Ain't that that hard, is it?
 
(I know it's not that, but that's how I like to explain it to beginners)
 
@Griwes you mean, you can just look stuff up?
 
@thecoshman Yeah. I know, it's amazing, isn't it?
 
I think it's time we take on a new tag,
4
 
:D
 
@EtiennedeMartel why not both?
 
@thecoshman Excellent question, my dear person.
 
so, it has come to this.
 
how do I stop being lame
 
2:51 PM
@ScottW lol
see, it's practical too
 
why can I never understand the difference between terminal and non-terminal symbols in grammars
the one is replaced and the other isn't, is all I've got so far
 
@TonyTheLion huh?
 
@TonyTheLion Terminals are the ones that cannot be decomposed.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes decomposed?
 
what are you on about 'terminal symbols'
 
2:52 PM
@TonyTheLion Non-terminals are made up of sequences of terminals.
 
oh I see
 
is this some new form of 'death linguistics'
 
@thecoshman Surprisingly effective.
 
@thecoshman ahahah
 
@Crowz Get a leg transplant.
2
 
2:53 PM
@ScottW tl;dr
 
@thecoshman It's some formal grammar terminalogy.
2
(pun, not a typo)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I like your style.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Reminds me of Zola's Germinal for some reason.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes o_o I see no pun
 
@thecoshman "terminal" mixed with "terminology"
You need to wake your brain up.
 
@Griwes o_o
 
Ell
2:58 PM
in order to allow ["something"] = do I have to return an object from [] that has =? Or is there some []= operator?
 
@thecoshman "o_o"?
 
@Griwes ಠ_ಠ
 
user142019
@Ell Return a reference to an object that has operator=.
 
@thecoshman I still don't know why you used that emoticon.
 
Ell
Right okay
I thought so
 
2:59 PM
@Griwes a black clueless face, I have no idea
 
@BartekBanachewicz, @rightfold So, I've been thinking about it, and my opinion of Equestria Girls is slowly improving. I don't know, I guess it's just the initial shock that's slowly settling down.
 
@thecoshman Still have no idea after my explanation...?
 

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